Season 7 Episode 2 "Stormborn" - "Non book readers"

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Her name isn't Asha in the show.

Oh yea, it's Yara, Asha has just stuck with me. Why did they change her name in the show?

EagererBeaver

Joel Substantial Year wrote: »

Oh yea, it's Yara, Asha has just stuck with me. Why did they change her name in the show?

They thought it was too similar to Osha.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

EagererBeaver wrote: »

They thought it was too similar to Osha.

Odd, Yara is very similar to Arya imo.

seamus

Joel Substantial Year wrote: »

Odd, Yara is very similar to Arya imo.

I guess though since Asha & Osha both revolved around Theon storylines, they were more likely to cause confusion than Yara/Arya.

Brief_Lives

pickarooney wrote: »

Well, looks like we got ourselves a READER!

Greatest Bill Hicks quote ever..... kudos my good man...

HalloweenJack

It was a good episode and got a lot of info out there in the open, though it seemed to be a lot. I don't see why some of it couldn't have been spread out a bit more over the next few episodes.

In a way, I was 'happy' to see Theon run away. I say 'happy' because, maybe I've watched too much television, but I fully expected him to knock the ****e out of his uncle and save the day. To see that he's still a coward and scared, after his character's redemption of sorts in the last season, is not something that you see much in television or films.

FWIW, I wasn't a fan of the battle scene. Not only because I was enjoying the bit just before but I found it difficult to make out with all the darkness involved in the scene.

wp_rathead

I really liked how they had Sam's dad go "Tarlys are loyal" and then later showing Sam's loyalty to Mormant son, who he served under in the Nightswatch
I also liked how Sam paraphrased Jeor by saying "You're not dying today" to Jorah

Utopia Parkway

Littlefingers's ever changing accent will surely go down in television history. I see Aidan Gillen has opted for the full Michael Healy Rae this season.

mcgiggles

Utopia Parkway wrote:

Littlefingers's ever changing accent will surely go down in television history. I see Aidan Gillen has opted for the full Michael Healy Rae this season.

Its hilarious! The minute he hit the boat a few seasons ago the accent changed completely!

duploelabs

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Littlefingers's ever changing accent will surely go down in television history. I see Aidan Gillen has opted for the full Michael Healy Rae this season.

His accent is stuck in 'DEMO' mode, if you look closely on the back of head head you can see the selector dial

DeadHand

mcgiggles wrote: »

Its hilarious! The minute he hit the boat a few seasons ago the accent changed completely!

I think the inconsistent accent fits the character.

LF is, above all, an influencer and trickster. It therefore makes sense that he tailors his accent to what he believes will best influence his audience. So, his tones are urbane and affected in King's Landing when dealing with the likes of Cersei becoming plainer when in the North pouring his poison in Jon's ear.

Brock Turnpike

duploelabs wrote: »

His accent is stuck in 'DEMO' mode, if you look closely on the back of head head you can see the selector dial

I think the best way to listen to Little Finger is to imagine that he puts on different accents every time he talks to different people in our order to throw them off as to who he really is...

DeadHand

I thought the episode was fantastic, an improvement on a strong opening. Things were were looking comfortable for Dany for too long, refreshing to see the the other side strick hard.

Another Great Hall scene in Winterfell- Jon must be running the most democratic Kingdom Westoros has ever seen. They do not get old, however, as Jon, Sansa and Lyanna especially excell in them in their own unique styles. Jon's evolution has been fascinating- he carries his Kingship convincingly with a kind of reluctant strength we have not seen from any of the many leaders we have encountered on the show. He gives the impression of a man becoming great mostly against his own will. Great job by Kit Harrington so far this season.

I was about to complain that Robin should also be present at these parlays (if not making meaningful contributions) in these scenes though it struck me that he is probably still in the Vale being too much of a liability to bring north.

Randyl Tarly is a terrifying individual in the Tywin/Stannis mould of old fashioned badass while Dickon has been given enough glimpses to suggest he'll have something important to do. It'll be be all things Tarly this season and I'm looking forward to it.

Contrary to what some here have posted, I think Jaime is far from resigned and jaded: his impassioned pursuit of Randyl and his attempts to moderate Cersei (Jaime probably is the last person in the world who can even attempt to) suggest a man getting ready for war and intending to win. He has developed from a selfish murderer into a more complex character with many admirable qualities in the course of the story but he is still a Lannister and he loves Cersei madly. He chose neither but it means he will be on her side until the end.

Shane St.

Euron did what had to be done. Good job

pickarooney

Alanhooly wrote: »

Unrealistic? Haha.

How have you got through 7 seasons of GoT if you're put off by 'unrealistic'. It's far more realistic than most things that happen in show

All it needed was him pointing to the crushed guy and saying "I guess he died... of boat-borne Euron disease!"

Loafing Oaf

DeadHand wrote: »

I think the inconsistent accent fits the character.

LF is, above all, an influencer and trickster. It therefore makes sense that he tailors his accent to what he believes will best influence his audience. So, his tones are urbane and affected in King's Landing when dealing with the likes of Cersei becoming plainer when in the North pouring his poison in Jon's ear.

He should have channeled his other screen roles into these personae, like when dealing with his whores and flunkies he does the full MAAARA, then becomes the Queer as Folk guy when he's sparring with Varys.:p

expectationlost

mzungu wrote: »

He ordered new ones to be built when he realised they had absconded with the fleet.

he built them very quick ! whats the timeline, I aso like to see a map of the journey each fleet too. (had a quick look on reddit)

expectationlost

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Littlefingers's ever changing accent will surely go down in television history. I see Aidan Gillen has opted for the full Michael Healy Rae this season.

im not saying he the greatest accent munger that ever lived but his accent changed on purpose, he use to hide his rural accent.

GottaGetGatt

expectationlost wrote: »

he built them very quick ! whats the timeline, I aso like to see a map of the journey each fleet too. (had a quick look on reddit)

Months maybe even a year has passed since then in the story. I remember in season 1 that Cersei remarks it took a month to ride from Kings Landing to Winterfell so time isn't really something that's bothered too much about in Got. The same with regards how long it takes Ravens to fly from Dragonstone to Winterfell. Each episode could easily be spread over a few weeks, month even . Best not to think to much about it.

DeadHand

Improved fare from the Citadel this episode too, Jim Broadbent is always eminently watchable and Samwell can be interesting when he tones down the comical fat guy routine. Iain Glen produced an understated though excellent performance- nailing Jorah's resigned dignity and innate decency. Samwell's arc can only liven up with Ser Friendzone in tow.

Solid if not particularly memorable Arya scenes. Hotpie pops in once more, the guy will outlast the lot of them.

The Qyburn secret weapon business is a bit off to me. He hypes up the marvellous anti-dragon measures he is devising and proceeds to show Cersei what is essentially a ballista. In a civilisation well accustomed to siege warfare a ballista doesn't really constitute a new wonder weapon. We saw a more impressive model on The Wall. I was expecting the big unveil to be a prototype cannon, a wildfire thrower or some other such crazy nonsense but instead it's a mundane weapon already invented and in use.

Dany vs. Varys was a brilliant dramatic scene. Dany grows ever more forceful and had the Spider on the ropes with her stern interrogation, but Varys verbally parried well. Interesting to see a character formerly of such murky motivation laid bare. We finally know exactly who he is for and what he wants. Very well played by Emilia Clarke and Conleth Hill.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Littlefingers's ever changing accent will surely go down in television history. I see Aidan Gillen has opted for the full Michael Healy Rae this season.

His sigil is the mockingbird after all

Tell me how

DeadHand wrote:

Dany vs. Varys was a brilliant dramatic scene........ We finally know exactly who he is for and what he wants.

No we don't. We know that in that moment that that is what he wanted to convince Dany his MO was but I'm not convinced.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Tell me how wrote: »

No we don't. We know that in that moment that that is what he wanted to convince Dany his MO was but I'm not convinced.

I thought he made it very clear a good few times that he serves the realm. He tells this to Eddard when he visited him in the dungeon.

Loafing Oaf

Joel Substantial Year wrote: »

I thought he made it very clear a good few times that he serves the realm. He tells this to Eddard when he visited him in the dungeon.

Yeah talking to Tyrion looking out to sea as well.

degrassinoel

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Yeah talking to Tyrion looking out to sea as well.

And the various spars with littlefinger

rawn

DeadHand wrote:

Dany vs. Varys was a brilliant dramatic scene. Dany grows ever more forceful and had the Spider on the ropes with her stern interrogation, but Varys verbally parried well. Interesting to see a character formerly of such murky motivation laid bare. We finally know exactly who he is for and what he wants. Very well played by Emilia Clarke and Conleth Hill.

The only thing that irked me about that scene is that they were on a boat together since he boarded at Dorne - and she only brings it up now!

alchemist33

rawn wrote: »

The only thing that irked me about that scene is that they were on a boat together since he boarded at Dorne - and she only brings it up now!

No, no, she spent the whole voyage on the prow with the wind blowing her hair. No time to discuss motivations when they have to look bad-ass!

Loafing Oaf

Brief_Lives wrote: »

Bronn's favourite sand snake is left, correct?
.

Haha I wonder was her reaction when Bronn refused to say she was the most beautiful woman in the world inspired by Father Ted's meltdown when Mrs Doyle tells him he might be Ireland's 'second-best priest'.:P

degrassinoel

rawn wrote: »

The only thing that irked me about that scene is that they were on a boat together since he boarded at Dorne - and she only brings it up now!

I figured she wanted him to feel reasonably safe to catch him off guard

GavRedKing

That giant crossbow, even though it would be the luckiest shot of all time, looks like it will take at least 1 of the dragons out, to make the battle a bit fairer, even if hitting a fast moving dragon would be near impossible.

However, if Dany wants to take the city without destroying it, I wonder will the dragons be kept in reserve, after Yaras failure in the narrow sea, Olennas words could force Dany on to the front foot and she could literally go all guns blazing to Kings Landing.

Theres also nothing really to stop her and the dragons taking out Euron in the open water or when the ships are in port, so I think she needs better council, a better military mind to make use of her greatest assets.

CMOTDibbler

rawn wrote: »

The only thing that irked me about that scene is that they were on a boat together since he boarded at Dorne - and she only brings it up now!

Possibly because he brought it up first? He gave her an opening with his bullsh1t about the great houses supporting her.

blackwhite

Jayop wrote: »

You could only think it was a heterosexual form of scissoring.

Have they actually stated anywhere that the Unsullied had the meat removed as well as the two veg?

Outside of the show (i.e. actual history :pac:), castration was usually taken to mean just the liathroidi.

J. Marston

Did Qyburn say they had the best blacksmiths make the weapon or weapons?

If it's just one ballista, it won't do much. If they're mass-produced and put around King's Landing, they have a good chance of hitting a dragon.

Riskymove

J. Marston wrote: »

Did Qyburn say they had the best blacksmiths make the weapon or weapons?

If it's just one ballista, it won't do much. If they're mass- produced and put around King's Landing, they have a good chance of hitting a dragon.

yeah he said it was bascially all hands on deck making such weapons

Tell me how

J. Marston wrote:

If it's just one ballista, it won't do much. If they're mass- produced and put around King's Landing, they have a good chance of hitting a dragon.

Where are the arrows that miss the dragons going to end up?

Definitely going to be collateral damage when they come in to play.

J. Marston

Riskymove wrote: »

yeah he said it was bascially all hands on deck making such weapons

My guess is Viserion and Rhaegal will be killed by them. They're just set-dressing really.

Vojera

Who is holding Casterly Rock on behalf of the Lannisters now? Was Kevan sent back there or was he among those in the Sept? (There were so many it's hard to keep track).

leggo

Vojera wrote: »

Who is holding Casterly Rock on behalf of the Lannisters now? Was Kevan sent back there or was he among those in the Sept? (There were so many it's hard to keep track).

He was in the Sept. I'd imagine it's being held by the people in the books (names escape me) who hold Riverrun now IIRC, Kevan and Tywin's sister and her husband. But I think Jaime will be riding to the rescue once the battle starts, for all the good it'll do.

duploelabs

Vojera wrote: »

Who is holding Casterly Rock on behalf of the Lannisters now? Was Kevan sent back there or was he among those in the Sept? (There were so many it's hard to keep track).

He's in the sept of balor when it went bewm

Nerdlingr

Anyone else think the first two episodes have been a bit of a let-down? I dunno, but I'm a bit underwhelmed by it all.
Littlefinger now spends his time standing by a wall during the debates and smirks a lot. I dont know how many shots they've used of him doing just that...yes!! we know!! he's a devious f8cker but please...change it up a bit. Sansa declared queen in the north - cue littlefinger smirking, jon letting the family have their castles back - cue littlefinger smirking.
Sansa openly questioning everything jon does is a bit rich too. They're laying it on very thick in the episodes. Everything seems to be so heavy handed now. There are no more nods and winks, no little subtleties..."oh i wish i was back home with my father fishing" "I'm gonna be a father, i hope its aa girl she can look after her pappa" purlleeeeassse!! ... Sam finding dragonglass just like that... treating Jorah for greyscale just like that. Oh, it was in a book all along...who knew?!!!
The sand snakes....my god...mama mama!! what an abomination. They destroyed, absolutely destroyed their characters.
Greyworm and Messendai ... does anyone really care???
Jaime... what has become of his character?!!! He's meant to be appalled by Cersei and not give a toss about her...not go around convincing tarlys to join their fight! I watched some of the old scenes on YouTube from the early seasons...the writing and interaction between the characters was soooo much better. Guess the lack of GRR Martin really shows this year.

Sorry for the rant. I do actually like the show and look forward to it each week...but for me, so far, season six has been possibly the weakest of all seasons. Which is a pity as its gonna be over before we know it.

leggo

I caught up from season four on. Since then, people have been saying Game Of Thrones has lost it in every non-big episode. I think people always compare every episode to the likes of Blackwater or Hardhomme and expect as much each week, but that's just not realistic. For me, this episode was better than the average second episode of a GoT series with the Euron battle and a couple of semi-major developments (Hot Pie/Nymeria cameos, Sam curing Jorah for Greyscale, Randyll perhaps joining the Lannisters), which is the only really fair way you can grade it. I also admire how they've resisted the urge to go fully balls to the wall and still take time for funny moments and character beats. I was reading an article about GoT and the legion of rip-off shows that came out seeing its success, and the great point was those bits of humanity and humour are what the others forget about and what makes us care about GoT that bit more.

Personally, I love spending time with these characters, love geeking out all week dissecting each episode, and I know I'll miss it when it's gone. So I'm trying not to think about stuff like what it would've been like if GRRM had written the books quicker and they could follow his plot etc. Because when the books do get released that'll be something new to look forward to too.

J. Marston

leggo wrote: »

I caught up from season four on. Since then, people have been saying Game Of Thrones has lost it in every non-big episode. I think people always compare every episode to the likes of Blackwater or Hardhomme and expect as much each week, but that's just not realistic. For me, this episode was better than the average second episode of a GoT series with the Euron battle and a couple of semi-major developments (Hot Pie/Nymeria cameos, Sam curing Jorah for Greyscale, Randyll perhaps joining the Lannisters), which is the only really fair way you can grade it. I also admire how they've resisted the urge to go fully balls to the wall and still take time for funny moments and character beats. I was reading an article about GoT and the legion of rip-off shows that came out seeing its success, and the great point was those bits of humanity and humour are what the others forget about and what makes us care about GoT that bit more.

Personally, I love spending time with these characters, love geeking out all week dissecting each episode, and I know I'll miss it when it's gone. So I'm trying not to think about stuff like what it would've been like if GRRM had written the books quicker and they could follow his plot etc. Because when the books do get released that'll be something new to look forward to too.

Oh sweet summer child...

Evade

blackwhite wrote: »

Have they actually stated anywhere that the Unsullied had the meat removed as well as the two veg?

Outside of the show (i.e. actual history :pac:), castration was usually taken to mean just the liathroidi.

Given they're supposed to be soldiers wouldn't they take the pillar and leave the stones? Unless there's a medieval testosterone replacement in Essos.

Vojera

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Anyone else think the first two episodes have been a bit of a let-down? I dunno, but I'm a bit underwhelmed by it all.

TBH I think it's been hyped up to fluck, it was always going to suffer a little from that.

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Littlefinger now spends his time standing by a wall during the debates and smirks a lot. I dont know how many shots they've used of him doing just that...yes!! we know!! he's a devious f8cker but please...change it up a bit. Sansa declared queen in the north - cue littlefinger smirking, jon letting the family have their castles back - cue littlefinger smirking.

I presume that, now that Jon has headed for Dragonstone, Littlefinger will make his move. I think the reason it keeps showing him is to remind us that he's still stalking around in the background, like a predator awaiting the moment to strike. He's been taking it all in and piecing it together. Even the scene in the crypt with Jon, I think it was more about prodding Jon's weaknesses than a true reveal of Littlefinger's motives. Yes, he wants Sansa, but he's hungry for power too, and the sway he has in the Vale isn't something to be overlooked.

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Sansa openly questioning everything jon does is a bit rich too.

This actually wrecks my head. You'd think Jon would have learned by now to talk to Sansa before declaring all these plans to the house leaders :rolleyes:

Nerdlingr wrote: »

They're laying it on very thick in the episodes. Everything seems to be so heavy handed now. There are no more nods and winks, no little subtleties...

I think that's partially a time constraint - from what they've indicated, the last two seasons are going to be, to quote a Sum41 album from my youth, "all killer, no filler" :pac: They have a place to get to and they'll plough on ahead. I think it's also down to being ahead of the books now. All the little sub-stories they were able to use as groundwork for the tv series are no longer in place. I do notice the difference from previous seasons and it is lesser because of it, but I'm still really enjoying it and looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

Conall Cernach

Littlefinger might get his comeuppance while Jon is away and Sansa is running the show. Particularly if Bran arrives at Winterfell with his knowledge of past events such as Littlefinger betraying Ned.

DeadHand

Don't get the pity and hate for Theon for his tactical withdrawal. He did exactly the right thing. Euron was in full beast mode and his men controlled the ship. Charging him at that stage would have gotten both him and Yara killed. Instead he paddles away to fight another day.

The naval battle was magnificent. People are bitching that it was too dark and unrealistic... Nah, man it was fantastic. Euron's entrance was way over the top, but he's an unhinged Pirate Lord. Nothing he does should be subtle.

If you watch it closely, he doesn't gracefully leap onto the enemy ship like a Disney creation. He sways and half-stumbles on board, glancing about furtively before breaking into a lunatic grin... What follows is the confused carnage of a medieval naval boarding. I thought it was as realistic as it could possibly have been and, more importantly, utterly savage.

From a practical point of view it was, of course, cheaper to make it a night time set piece. But the setting is easily justified from a story point of view. Euron is hardly going to blindside the feminism flotilla in broad daylight. He specialises in shock attacks, as the Lannister fleet could testify. Thematically it fits too, adding a greater sense of panic and menace to proceedings. An amazing set piece.

Speaking of Euron, he announced himself as the next head villain emphatically. After an indifferent few scenes last season he has been absolutely glorious this season. I doubt it was deliberate, but having him steamroll three vaunted female warriors in quick succession subverted the tiresome trope in recent TV/film whereby women often easily overcome men in physical combat.

The Sandsnakes will not be widely mourned. I thought they performed a lot better in these fight scenes than they had previously but dying was the most positive contribution they could have made to the overall quality of the series.
I cheered for Euron throughout.

seamus

DeadHand wrote: »

Don't get the pity and hate for Theon for his tactical withdrawal. He did exactly the right thing. Euron was in full beast mode and his men controlled the ship. Charging him at that stage would have gotten both him and Yara killed. Instead he paddles away to fight another day.

It was fairly juxtaposed though with Yara's speech not 3 minutes earlier that Theon would be her hand and protector. When it came to it, he didn't have the bottle.

It's fitting with his character though. He had visions of grandeur, but never had the bravery to become a leader. He took Winterfell in a cowardly way, murdered two innocents in order to save face. When taken by Ramsey, he became a whimpering mess rather than fight back.

Adamocovic

DeadHand wrote: »

Don't get the pity and hate for Theon for his tactical withdrawal. He did exactly the right thing. Euron was in full beast mode and his men controlled the ship. Charging him at that stage would have gotten both him and Yara killed. Instead he paddles away to fight another day.

The problem a lot of fans are having is what Theon did, while lives to fight another day, is not the Ironborn way.

Personally however I'm rooting for Theon, have been for way to long and they keep just knocking him down. I'm hoping he is part of some rescue mission but won't hold my breathe. His character arc is one of the biggest and most interesting in the show to me.

DeadHand

Adamocovic wrote: »

The problem a lot of fans are having is what Theon did, while lives to fight another day, is not the Ironborn way

The Ironborn aren't Samurai- they are raiders, hit and run merchants.

Retreating in the face of unfavourable odds is absolutely the Ironborn way, as Yara withdrew at the Dreadfort and attempted to convince Theon to withdraw at Winterfell.

They aren't interested in battle honour or fighting to the death.

CMOTDibbler

Conall Cernach wrote: »

Littlefinger might get his comeuppance while Jon is away and Sansa is running the show. Particularly if Bran arrives at Winterfell with his knowledge of past events such as Littlefinger betraying Ned.

There's a queue of potential meetings that could scupper Littlefinger. Jon is heading to Dragonstone where he's likely to meet Varys who was present in the throne room in Kings Landing when Littlefinger put his knife to Ned's throat. Also heading north is Sandor Clegane who was (afaik) also present there. But even if he wasn't, would surely know all about it.

Then there's Arya, also heading north to be re-united with her family. Arya, who as cup-bearer to Tywin Lannister was present at a meeting between Tywin and Littlefinger. And finally, Bran who may or may not know anything about Littlefinger's betrayals.

The only one that Littlefinger could be aware of is Varys. He must know that Varys is with Danaerys and knows of his betrayal of the Starks. He's taking a chance by staying in Winterfell, so I suspect he'll be legging it back to The Eyrie before long unless he's a betting man and feels Varys won't betray him. Varys is probably unlikely to volunteer the information unless the subject of Littlefinger comes up in conversation.