Looking for advice - turbo trainer

fatgav

Hi all

I know there's plenty of threads on this topic already, but I've a few questions that I hope those who know much more than I will be able to help with.

I'm a not-great keep fit cyclist, on course to do 2000km this year, and want to invest in a turbo for the winter. I'm a bit of a gadget fiend, to an extent, and know that to make me use it I need to get a smart trainer and zwift/trainerroad or something of that ilk. The setup I get will be with my current bike, a Trek 1.2 which has a 9-speed cassette (18-gears is a nine-speed cassette, right? Like I say, I'm no expert). I have a Garmin Edge 520 so already have speed/cadence and HR sensors but no power meter.

Just a few questions, and all help is appreciated

Is the direct drive worth the extra expense over a turbo? I was looking at the Tacx Flux or the Tacx Vortex models in the main but am open to changing that, within budget constraints

Aside from the trainer, I figure I will need a matt to put the bike on as well as a rider for the front wheel. Will every setup require an Ant+ stick for the laptop (the laptop side is sorted by the way)?

What other extras would be needed? I figure a cassette for the direct drive route, if I opt for that. Would I need to get tools to install that?

Sorry if this is a bit ramble-y! Thanks

fatgav

fatgav wrote: »

Hi all

I know there's plenty of threads on this topic already, but I've a few questions that I hope those who know much more than I will be able to help with.

I'm a not-great keep fit cyclist, on course to do 2000km this year, and want to invest in a turbo for the winter. I'm a bit of a gadget fiend, to an extent, and know that to make me use it I need to get a smart trainer and zwift/trainerroad or something of that ilk. The setup I get will be with my current bike, a Trek 1.2 which has a 9-speed cassette (18-gears is a nine-speed cassette, right? Like I say, I'm no expert). I have a Garmin Edge 520 so already have speed/cadence and HR sensors but no power meter.

Just a few questions, and all help is appreciated

Is the direct drive worth the extra expense over a turbo? I was looking at the Tacx Flux or the Tacx Vortex models in the main but am open to changing that, within budget constraints

Aside from the trainer, I figure I will need a matt to put the bike on as well as a rider for the front wheel. Will every setup require an Ant+ stick for the laptop (the laptop side is sorted by the way)?

What other extras would be needed? I figure a cassette for the direct drive route, if I opt for that. Would I need to get tools to install that?

Sorry if this is a bit ramble-y! Thanks

Meant to say I'm aware of the issues with the Flux but t looks like they've been overcome with the latest builds. And I presume a trainer tyre will be needed too with the trainer route

CantGetNoSleep

I'm also looking for one of these - not an expert so can't really reply to your questions - but this is the best guide i have come across:

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/10/annual-winter-2016-2017-bike-smart-trainer-recommendations.html

nordicb

I think direct drives mainly bring benefit in noise levels, feel and power handling...

Ant+ dongle gives all the connectivity you may need, trainer, HRM, cadence. Issues are common though as they say Ant+ interferes with the WiFi. Sensor distance can also be an issue, some use USB extension lead to rectify this... It helps me certainly as I do get odd drops from the cadence sensor, but not while on the extension lead. Units in that price range usually have a power meter, even though it is not a true power, it can be very close estimating the power produced.

Mat definitely helps with the sweat management and floor protection as the while rig will move a good bit during hard sessions. You may also invest into a cheapish fan to keep yourself cooler and think of a stand for the laptop. Towel on the handlebars will help with sweat not getting into headset and handlebars.

Best regards

CantGetNoSleep

I'm going to go for Tacx Flux direct drive most likely

fatgav

nordicb wrote: »

I think direct drives mainly bring benefit in noise levels, feel and power handling...

Ant+ dongle gives all the connectivity you may need, trainer, HRM, cadence. Issues are common though as they say Ant+ interferes with the WiFi. Sensor distance can also be an issue, some use USB extension lead to rectify this... It helps me certainly as I do get odd drops from the cadence sensor, but not while on the extension lead. Units in that price range usually have a power meter, even though it is not a true power, it can be very close estimating the power produced.

Mat definitely helps with the sweat management and floor protection as the while rig will move a good bit during hard sessions. You may also invest into a cheapish fan to keep yourself cooler and think of a stand for the laptop. Towel on the handlebars will help with sweat not getting into headset and handlebars.

Best regards

Thanks for your reply.

If noise was not a factor, is there a difference in the quality of the workout you get on the direct drive and the trainer? I'm presuming the answer may be model-dependent but said I'd ask
L

Macy0161

fatgav wrote: »

If noise was not a factor, is there a difference in the quality of the workout you get on the direct drive and the trainer? I'm presuming the answer may be model-dependent but said I'd ask
L

fwiw, when they answered a question on their podcast, the TrainerRoad guys said they'd go non-smart direct drive over smart wheel-on. You're putting in more variables/ potential inconsistencies with wheel-on - tyre pressure, pressure setting of the roller etc.

I went from a bottom of the range wheel on to a non smart direct drive elite turbo muin (when Halfords have it, it's pretty good deal, especially with axa discount). With the sensor (which halfords didn't do) it does it's own version of virtual power. So I can't really do a comparison with a higher end wheel-on turbo.

From my TrainerRoad use (never used zwift) smart would be good for the base period sessions at a consistent level where you could kill time watching TV. It would also help following the TrainerRoad sessions if you're trying to do some of the cadence stuff, as I sometimes find I'm between gears. However, for VO2 max stuff, I think you'll be concentrating on the effort whether on a smart trainer or not!

I thought the flux had ok reviews, from rainmaker anyway? Had missed any quality control issues.

btw, with Ant+, it depends on the turbo I think. TrainerRoad will work with bluetooth too. I've only Ant+ HRM, and had a dongle anyway, so that was one thing I didn't look at too much tbh.

fatgav

Is it difficult to install a cassette onto a direct drive trainer? Does it require any special tools? I'm figuring a normal 9-speed Shimano (or something similar) would work OK?

nordicb

fatgav wrote: »

Is it difficult to install a cassette onto a direct drive trainer? Does it require any special tools? I'm figuring a normal 9-speed Shimano (or something similar) would work OK?

Yep, you'll need a cassette locknut socket or similar multispline tool.


Also on the bluetooth connection, it has to be a certain version of low energy one, BTLE or v4 of it or something - most mobile devices support it, but not laptops, just saying it needs a proper look to ensure it your system supports it. BT connection is more solid than the ANT+.

Macy0161

Cassette lockring tool for fitting (and chainwhip for removal). Probably spacers for a 9 speed as well, but I've limited knowledge and fitted an 11 speed cassette! I did it no problem, and I'm fairly inexperienced at bike mechanics.

The non smart/ dumb direct drive one I have is at €300 in halfords (295 in wiggle) at the moment. It can be hit and miss if you get the Axa discount on top of sale prices. You'd have to add the cassette, and if you wanted to train by power/ virtual power their Elite Misuro B+ Sensor (this allows either trainerroad to do virtual power, or it does it's own virtual power).
http://www.halfords.ie/cycling/turbo-trainers/trainers/elite-turbo-muin-turbo-trainer

To be honest though, if I was buying now, I'd be trying to stretch to the flux, notwithstanding any quality issues that I'd want to research! I'd still go direct drive over smart, but smart direct drive with consistent power readings is better. At the time I wasn't prepared to stretch for a neo/ kickr which were the options, when I didn't know whether I'd stick to a turbo plan.

Also, pretty sure DC Rainmaker normally recommends waiting to see what's new for turbo's rather than buy at this time of the year. They won't be launching new ones yet, and there was a feeling that the Flux would start a drop in price/ cheaper options.

fatgav

Macy0161 wrote: »

Cassette lockring tool for fitting (and chainwhip for removal). Probably spacers for a 9 speed as well, but I've limited knowledge and fitted an 11 speed cassette! I did it no problem, and I'm fairly inexperienced at bike mechanics.

The non smart/ dumb direct drive one I have is at €300 in halfords (295 in wiggle) at the moment. It can be hit and miss if you get the Axa discount on top of sale prices. You'd have to add the cassette, and if you wanted to train by power/ virtual power their Elite Misuro B+ Sensor (this allows either trainerroad to do virtual power, or it does it's own virtual power).
http://www.halfords.ie/cycling/turbo-trainers/trainers/elite-turbo-muin-turbo-trainer

To be honest though, if I was buying now, I'd be trying to stretch to the flux, notwithstanding any quality issues that I'd want to research! I'd still go direct drive over smart, but smart direct drive with consistent power readings is better. At the time I wasn't prepared to stretch for a neo/ kickr which were the options, when I didn't know whether I'd stick to a turbo plan.

Also, pretty sure DC Rainmaker normally recommends waiting to see what's new for turbo's rather than buy at this time of the year. They won't be launching new ones yet, and there was a feeling that the Flux would start a drop in price/ cheaper options.

Have decided to wait for the Elite Direto which is out shortly. Looks better than the Flux for same money. Gives me time to save up a little and figure out how to install a cassette onto it!

Kevincavan83

fatgav wrote: »

Have decided to wait for the Elite Direto which is out shortly. Looks better than the Flux for same money. Gives me time to save up a little and figure out how to install a cassette onto it!

Hi Gav,


Looking at your post,
Your using a 9 speed, probably shinano sora groopset, which as pricing goes is no more as expensive as the trainer your looking at.
I would recommend trying a trainer firstto see if you like it, because it is the most mind. Numbingly difficult thing to do if you have not tried it

fatgav

Thanks for that Kevin. I'm going to invest in something like Zwift or TrainerRoad when I get the Turbo to battle that boredom. I'd be confident it'll keep me at it.. That and the missus making sure I use it!

Kevincavan83

fatgav wrote: »

Thanks for that Kevin. I'm going to invest in something like Zwift or TrainerRoad when I get the Turbo to battle that boredom. I'd be confident it'll keep me at it.. That and the missus making sure I use it!

Haha yeah that'll be a motivator alright.
Get a good anti vibrate mat aswell

Macy0161

fatgav wrote: »

Thanks for that Kevin. I'm going to invest in something like Zwift or TrainerRoad when I get the Turbo to battle that boredom. I'd be confident it'll keep me at it.. That and the missus making sure I use it!

Can't talk to zwift (don't have the computer hardware to try it!), but TrainerRoad provides me with much greater focus - great to have a plan to follow, especially if you have specific goals. But even if not, plenty of plans to keep it interesting.