The Road to London....... Build up to World Championships mod notes #342 and #653

El Caballo

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

She lost her medal on lap 2

I'm not sure why she slowed down the pace so much on that lap with the likes of Hassan, Dibaba, Semenya and Kipyegon in the field who are all better kickers than her. 2:17 through 800 absolutely suits them down to the ground against her. I thought after the first lap and Muir leading it out, she was planning to keep the pace honest as that's what you'd expect her to do with better kickers in the field. Hassan made the race with that burst but mistimed it. fantastic race though

Joe_ Public

El Caballo wrote: »

I'm not sure why she slowed down the pace so much on that lap with the likes of Hassan, Dibaba, Semenya and Kipyegon in the field who are all better kickers than her. 2:17 through 800 absolutely suits them down to the ground against her. I thought after the first lap and Muir leading it out, she was planning to keep the pace honest as that's what you'd expect her to do with better kickers in the field. Hassan made the race with that burst but mistimed it. fantastic race though

She said during her post-race interview that it was because she was trying to keep something extra for the finish and was adamant she'd run exactly the race she'd set out to do. Whatever you want to make of that. I'd say Hassan's burst of acceleration at half-way caught her by surprise, perhaps not the best tactical move by Hassan either. Race coudl not have worked out mroe perfectly for Kipyegon, was set up for her the whole way round.

Jayesdiem

RuMan wrote: »

Jayesdiem wrote: »

The BBC is world class: a world class self-promoter. Are you seriously suggesting that Jessica Ennis had anything of relevance to say about the events? Vanilla doesn't even begin to describe it. Denise Lewis is too matey with the British team to demonstrate anything approaching critical analysis. They are all best mates on a first-name basis. Cram is a cretin. Foster is a cretin. Logan is the cheering ringmaster. It's all "ooohh she was so close" and "he had it just snatched away from him". Johnson is great.

Don't understand the issue here. It's no different here or in the US, the focus is on their own athletes which is what their viewing public would demand.

Steve Cram was a world class athlete who are you to call him a cretin?

They are a British channel whose revenue comes from the British taxpayer. Watch the IAAF feed if you have a problem

Who cares about "analysts" I'm watching for the athletes. Given its a British channel clearly the emphasis will be on British athletes!

You wanna chill to be honest. The above post is embarrassing

Sorry for your embarrassment. I'm certainly not embarrassed. Cram is a cretin.

Braken

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

Cracking evening in the stadium culminating in that 1500, super race by Simpson, Muir got it wrong probably playing to the crowd. Brilliant women's triple jump final, nip and tuck all the way. Thomas is actually a good stadium host kept the crowd going. Roll on tomorrow night.
Disappointing not to see any Irish though

The only place you will see the Irish is in the stands..Scotland had 13 athletes on the British team across a wide variety of events where are we going wrong?

Testosterscone

Braken wrote: »

The only place you will see the Irish is in the stands..Scotland had 13 athletes on the British team across a wide variety of events where are we going wrong?

Is this a change in organisation or simply a once in a life time generation?

Callum Hawkins, Chris O Hare and Josh Kerr are a product of the NCAA system

Steph Twell is a product of the Mick Woods system which have churned out female British distance runners that have probably taken more medals at Euro Cross than nearly any other country in recent history of the championships (Purdue, Gorecka and Twell are some of the top athletes in recent times)

Beth Potter is of a Triathlon background.

There is no doubt that the likes of Hawkins, Buchart, Muir have been a revelation but are they simply all coming at the right time

Chivito550

“I'm in general a roly-poly doll. I always get back up again and try to come back better than I was before."

Did an IAAF feature on Germany's Carolin Schafer who took silver in the heptathlon on Sunday night.

https://www.iaaf.org/competitions/iaaf-world-championships/iaaf-world-championships-london-2017-5151/news/feature/women/heptathlon

IvoryTower

so it seems quite a few athletes have got food poisoning, doesnt sound good for makwala

Down South

IvoryTower wrote: »

so it seems quite a few athletes have got food poisoning, doesnt sound good for makwala

Irish Team Manager this morning thought it was viral gastroenteritis

IvoryTower

Not good either way!

BBC seemed to be hinting that he may have pulled out on purpose to be rested for 400, it doesnt sound like it now though

28064212

Braken wrote: »

The only place you will see the Irish is in the stands..Scotland had 13 athletes on the British team across a wide variety of events where are we going wrong?

Ireland, with a slightly smaller population, had 11 (12 if you include Pollock who pulled out late due to injury). That's not exactly dominating us

robinph

IvoryTower wrote: »

Not good either way!

BBC seemed to be hinting that he may have pulled out on purpose to be rested for 400, it doesnt sound like it now though

That is all the info that they had when the heat was on, they then updated in the studio chat a bit later to say that several people had gone down with food poisoning and at that point the story seems to suggest it was multiple hotels effected. Now seems that it's just the one hotel, although the hotel denying they are the source.

The story was only just emerging during the evening yesterday and all they had to go on was a favourite had dropped out.

robinph

28064212 wrote: »

Ireland, with a slightly smaller population, had 11 (12 if you include Pollock who pulled out late due to injury). That's not exactly dominating us

It is dominating England, Wales and NI though who the Scottish athletes have to compete with for places. So much harder for Scotland to be able to have that number of athletes get there.

Testosterscone

28064212 wrote: »

Ireland, with a slightly smaller population, had 11 (12 if you include Pollock who pulled out late due to injury). That's not exactly dominating us

Number of qualifiers is not exactly a direct comparison given they have to come through the British Trials however there performances at championships;

- two top 4 performances
- two advancing from heats
- 2 athletes on what should be a medal relay team

They still have Muir (in 5000) as well as Sharp, Kerr, O'Hare and Buchart who would be dark horses for top 8 performances

Testosterscone

In terms of comparisons between Scotland and Ireland

Men top times of year
Event|Ireland 2017 |Scotland
100m|10.30|10.23
200m|20.71|21.10
400m|45.26|47.43
800m|1.45.42|1.45.42
1500m|3.38.16|3.33.61
5000m|13.52.67|13.11.45
10000m|28.58.28|29.01.76
Marathon|2.15.30|2.10.17


womens top times of year
Event|Ireland 2017 |Scotland
100m|11.42|11.54
200m|23.32|23.31
400m|53.25|51.81
800m|2.02.11|1.58.01
1500m|4.03.57|4.00.35
5000m|15.50.55|14.49.12
10000m|32.51.78|32.04.63
Marathon|2.38.26|2.37.51


Overall ability wise we seem to be in line which would be the norm with the few outliers being Scotlands currently World Class crop and womens 400m where they have been traditionally strong anyway

walshb

Todd Gack wrote: »

+1, a nonsense article and given the BBC also did a panorama on Alberto Salazar a couple of years ago they can't be accused of completely digging their heads in the sand.

True.

Nonsense/dangerous article. People really expecting the BBC to be on air questioning an athlete that has never once failed a drugs test?

What is with with some people. They just want to see the bad in everything and everyone. And they won't be happy unless they are sullying the names of people who have done no wrong.

Salazar......well, what has he been charged with? Oh, wait. Eff all....

Mo is a career great athlete and clean and honest competitor.

There seems to be quite an anti buzz around him here.

I get the impression that for some people the athletes would need to walk the running events for them to be satisfied, because any good-great effort and performance just cannot be met with belief.

RuMan

Testosterscone wrote: »

Number of qualifiers is not exactly a direct comparison given they have to come through the British Trials however there performances at championships;

- two top 4 performances
- two advancing from heats
- 2 athletes on what should be a medal relay team

They still have Muir (in 5000) as well as Sharp, Kerr, O'Hare and Buchart who would be dark horses for top 8 performances

The Brits have poured money into their Olympic sports over the last while cant really be much of a shock when they become more successful.

I think we've actually been improving recently in fairness. English, Barr and McGean have all had some success while we have a load of marathoners running sub 2:20 now so hopefully one or 2 can crack on further.

I'd be more interested in the young athletes coming through and results recently have been very encouraging.

Athletics seems to be held to a much higher standard then other sports. The only other sport that could be set to have competitors from all over the world is soccer. Thomas Barr comes 4th at the Olympics which is equivalent to a semi final place in the WC. Would that be considered to be a failure for our soccer team ?

Other sports such as golf , rugby ,boxing where we have had success are simply no where near as competitive as top level athletics.

Caprica

The Women's 1500 was very exciting last night but I'm not sure all the athletes ran the best tactical race. Muir ran a poor race for me again, it was a fairly decent first lap but she let it slip with a slow second lap. For me her the strongest point is her strength , she is not a sprint finisher but she didn't run that way yesterday. Maybe her injury made her change her tactics?

I've always liked Hassan as an athlete and she has been in great for this season but once again she is plonked at the back of the field and has to put in a big acceleration to get to the front of the field, it hurt her in the home straight plus straying of the inside cost her a bit and also let the Yank through for a medal. I didn't realise she had moved to Salazar till Eurosport announced it.

Semenya again I felt could have taken closer order, her plan for the 800 of sitting back and coming through strong is fine there but she needs to be closer to the action over the 15. I still feel she can push herself more over both distances. I wonder will we see her racing next year?

Kipyegon was very impressive, she was not going to be bet. Good running by Weighman for 6th. Nice see Venezuela get their first world title and Jamaica finally get a gold. Shubenkov has got the Russians their first medal.

walshb

RuMan wrote: »

Other sports such as golf , rugby ,boxing where we have had success are simply no where near as competitive as top level athletics.

This line is trotted out a lot.

Athletics is like 20 or so disciplines....

Boxing and golf and rugby etc are very much as competitive....

There are millions of people all over the world training hard in many sports to be the best. To come out with that type of blanket statement is wrong.

In case you didn't know, boxing is a global sport, as are Golf and Rugby.

Testosterscone

RuMan wrote: »

The Brits have poured money into their Olympic sports over the last while cant really be much of a shock when they become more successful.

Ironic thing is looking at the Scots competing

Beth Potter - No funded
Laura Muir - Top Level Funding
Jake Wightman - 2nd Tier funding
Lynsey Sharp - Top Level Funding
Callum Hawkins - 2nd Tier Funding
Andrew Butchart - 2nd Tier Funding
Eilidh Doyle - No funding
Zoey Clark - No Funding
Chris O'Hare - No Funding (US Scholarship)
Steph Twell - No Funding
Josh Kerr - No Funding (US Scholarship)
Eilish McColgan - Dropped from funding in 2015/16
Guy Learmonth - No funding

Testosterscone

Caprica wrote: »

I didn't realise she had moved to Salazar till Eurosport announced it.

Couldn't officially be listed for months despite training with the group due to the ongoing investigation around Salazar by USADA but pretty sure when the report was released she was free to. (in May)

Chivito550

walshb wrote: »

RuMan wrote: »

Other sports such as golf , rugby ,boxing where we have had success are simply no where near as competitive as top level athletics.

This line is trotted out a lot.

Athletics is like 20 or so disciplines....

Boxing and golf and rugby etc are very much as competitive....

There are millions of people all over the world training hard in many sports to be the best. To come out with that type of blanket statement is wrong.

In case you didn't know, boxing is a global sport, as are Golf and Rugby.

Rugby is played to a high level or reasonably decent level in UK, France, Ireland, Oz, NZ, RSA, Argentina, Italy and small Pacific Island nations. Japan I suppose now too.

Within these nations there are big gaps in quality from top 5-6 and say 9-12 ranked teams.

Hardly global.

average_runner

I was thinking about this yesterday.

Yesterday evening i collected my kids from Summer Camp at Kings Hospital.
There is also a rugby camp ran by Leinster School of Science for Rugby or something.

The training seemed to be top class and was open to all. 400 for the week to stay there and 300 a week for those not staying there. Leinster coaches and some players would turn up each day. Including meals, nutrition talks etc

Why doesn't Athletics Ireland run something like this, where our current and pass athletes can attend to help out and some good coaches to help spot the talent?


On a good note, the good thing about the World Champs is that my 6 year has shown interest in it, sitting down watching it with me. She wants to try it out now. (Sadly no spaces in the clubs close by). Not too worried as she is doing enough sports with hockey, gaelic, camoige, tennis and swimming.

Joe_ Public

walshb wrote: »

This line is trotted out a lot.

Athletics is like 20 or so disciplines....

Boxing and golf and rugby etc are very much as competitive....

There are millions of people all over the world training hard in many sports to be the best. To come out with that type of blanket statement is wrong.

In case you didn't know, boxing is a global sport, as are Golf and Rugby.

I agree with this. Don't see the need for these comparisons anyway. Sport at elite level takes a savage amount of commitment and talent across the board, no matter of what variety. We've had 2 olympic gold medals in boxing, none at world championship, that tells you how competitive that sport is. You have to beat the best to be the best, that principle can be universally applied.

IvoryTower

average_runner wrote: »

I was thinking about this yesterday.

Yesterday evening i collected my kids from Summer Camp at Kings Hospital.
There is also a rugby camp ran by Leinster School of Science for Rugby or something.

The training seemed to be top class and was open to all. 400 for the week to stay there and 300 a week for those not staying there. Leinster coaches and some players would turn up each day. Including meals, nutrition talks etc

Why doesn't Athletics Ireland run something like this, where our current and pass athletes can attend to help out and some good coaches to help spot the talent?


On a good note, the good thing about the World Champs is that my 6 year has shown interest in it, sitting down watching it with me. She wants to try it out now. (Sadly no spaces in the clubs close by). Not too worried as she is doing enough sports with hockey, gaelic, camoige, tennis and swimming.

They have summer camps and they also have some of their stars training kids I believe, like elite squad camp type things! Gregan & co teaching them the blocks etc

Cosmo Kramer

I wouldn't get too carried away with Scotland's achievements compared to ours in athletics:
- Before this year they have never sent more than seven athletes to the championships
- They haven't won an individual medal since 1991
- They haven't won an individual medal in athletics in the Olympics since 1988.

It's good that they have a decent team this year, but their two biggest medal chances have already been and gone and they're likely to end the championships again with no medals.

Testosterscone

average_runner wrote: »

Why doesn't Athletics Ireland run something like this, where our current and pass athletes can attend to help out and some good coaches to help spot the talent?

To be fair though alot of it it going under the radar with some there is a huge amount of work put into

http://www.athleticsireland.ie/news/bank-of-ireland-talent-id-programme/

http://www.athleticsireland.ie/clubs/summercamps/

https://twitter.com/briangregan89/status/663695752166842368

https://twitter.com/ciaramageean/status/848264336594358272

https://twitter.com/pbyrne4H/status/861939648385490944

Testosterscone

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

I wouldn't get too carried away with Scotland's achievements compared to ours in athletics:
- Before this year they have never sent more than seven athletes to the championships
- They haven't won an individual medal since 1991
- They haven't won an individual medal in athletics in the Olympics since 1988.

It's good that they have a decent team this year, but their two biggest medal chances have already been and gone and they're likely to end the championships again with no medals.

Take out the walks and our record is similar (3 total with our last one in 1995)

If we had the prospect of about 6 top 8 (finalist) performances though I can tell you would be considering it a damn fine championships and probably our best in history.

To give you an idea AAI Strategy aims at 16 medals at global level between 2017-2020 across all competitions (Youth,Junior and Senior) as a stretching goal

Testosterscone

Was just reminded of this story and realised probably not one alot are aware of who don't follow the sport that often.

A profile on the Long Jump world champion who was crowned at the weekend

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/dec/05/from-crystal-meth-to-olympic-glory-the-recovery-and-rise-of-luvo-manyonga

Testosterscone

Had a bit of time but I thought might be interesting to draw comparisons across sports rankings vs finishing positions in World Championships. Interesting to see that while depth of different sports might be debated, financial reward is something which can't be ignored.


*Fairly arbitrary but we are often quick to dismiss none final/medal performances

Athletics|Golf|Tennis|Football
Brian Gregan|Daniel Berger|John Isner|Iceland
Mick Clohisey|Thomas Pierters|Gael Monfils|Northern Ireland
Thomas Barr|Tyrrell Hatton|Nick Kyrgios|Egypt
Mark English|Jason Dufner|Ivo Karlovic|Tunisia
Sean Hehir|Ian Poulter|Nikoloz Basilashvili|Albania


Women
Athletics|Golf|Tennis|
Claire McCarthy|Jiyai Shin|Magdalena Rybarikova
Ciara Mageean|Moriya Jutanugarn|Lauren Davis

Chivito550

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I agree with this. Don't see the need for these comparisons anyway. Sport at elite level takes a savage amount of commitment and talent across the board, no matter of what variety. We've had 2 olympic gold medals in boxing, none at world championship, that tells you how competitive that sport is. You have to beat the best to be the best, that principle can be universally applied.

To be a top snooker player takes huge levels of talent and dedication. Doesn't change the fact it is essentially played in 2 countries.