The Road to London....... Build up to World Championships mod notes #342 and #653

average_runner

walshb wrote: »

I may need to watch it again. It looked like he lots some drive and form.

The guy cruised to victory, looked up at the big screen and strolled home.

IvoryTower

walshb wrote: »

I may need to watch it again. It looked like he lots some drive and form.

i thought he was watching the screen from 50 and slowed to a stride for last 20 to save energy for the 200. It's a pity he's running the 200 would love to have seen him try to break his WR

average_runner

Eyes Down Field wrote: »

I think the public and media vitriol against Justin Gatlin is disgusting. The man served his ban and paid the price. He is now the world champion, and people need to respect that. Many athletes would have taken a 4 year ban as the end of there career, Gatlin didn't give up, He fought back, trained hard and won the gold. He beat the legend that is Usain Bolt, along with his teammate, the world leading Christian Coleman.

The media has demonized this man for years, pushing the narrative that Bolt is some kind of Jesus-like savior for track athletics,and Gatlin is the devil. They are to blame from inciting and instigating hatred against Gatlin.

People don't have to respect cheats!

RuMan

walshb wrote: »

There's no maybe about it. Boxing is a global sport...

Golf too...too expensive? What has that got to do with my claim that it's a global sport?

Rugby is a team sport and is played on all "continents."

Are there many poor Kenyans playing golf ?

It's a similar reason as to why the Brits dominate at that velodrome cycling. "Best in the world at sports poor countries cant afford."

Rugby is played in former colonies. Most of the world would not even know the rugby world cup is on. In contrast the soccer world cup is a worldwide event.
Everyone knows Messi/Ronaldo.
I've spent a lot of time in south America and they don't even recognise the game "is that American football" ? (other then a few posh parts of Buenos Aires).

Nothing wrong with that per se, but you may as well claim hurling is a Global game because some lads are having a puc about on Bondi beach !


Anyway this has little to do with athletics. Van Niekerk really is a lovely runner, gliding along.

walshb

RuMan wrote: »

Are there many poor Kenyans playing golf ?

It's a similar reason as to why the Brits dominate at that velodrome cycling. "Best in the world at sports poor countries cant afford."

Nothing wrong with that per se,

Rugby is played in former colonies. Most of the world would not even know the rugby world cup is on. In contrast the soccer world cup is a worldwide event.
Everyone knows Messi/Ronaldo.
I've spent a lot of time in south America and they don't even recognise the game "is that American football" ? (other then a few posh parts of Buenos Aires).

Golf is global. End of

Kenyans playing it? Who cares if they are or are not? Millions upon millions of people all over the world play golf.

Your original assertion about athletics being so clearly more competitive is inaccurate.

I am a big track and field fan. There has always been that vibe fr om some that somehow track and field is the true sport of the world and the most competitive. It's a misconception borne out of an arrogance.

RuMan

walshb wrote: »

Golf is global. End of

Kenyans playing it? Who cares if that are or are not? Millions upon millions of people all over the world play golf.

Your original assertion about athletics being so clearly more competitive is inaccurate.

I am a big track and field fan. There has always been that vibe fr om some that somehow track and field is the true sport of the world and the most competitive. It's a misconception borne out of an arrogance.

Look soccer and athletics (and granted boxing) are routes out of poverty for large parts of the world.

Quite simply there is an income bar on those trying to play golf as clubs and membership (if there is a golf club nearby) are out of reach of most of the population of Africa.

I love rugby but it's not a global sport, it's even a minority sport in Oz.
Not sure what your issue is, I enjoy lots of sports that aren't global.

walshb

RuMan wrote: »

Look soccer and athletics (and granted boxing) are routes out of poverty for large parts of the world.

Quite simply there is an income bar on those trying to play golf as clubs and membership (if there is a golf club nearby) are out of reach of most of the population of Africa.

I love rugby but it's not a global sport, it's even a minority sport in Oz.
Not sure what your issue is, I enjoy lots of sports that aren't global.

I have no issue. I was just pulling you up/debating on your claim a few pages back.

Track and filed is not clearly more competitive than the sports you named...

Erik Shin

RuMan wrote: »

Look soccer and athletics (and granted boxing) are routes out of poverty for large parts of the world.

Quite simply there is an income bar on those trying to play golf as clubs and membership (if there is a golf club nearby) are out of reach of most of the population of Africa.

I love rugby but it's not a global sport, it's even a minority sport in Oz.
Not sure what your issue is, I enjoy lots of sports that aren't global.

Rugby most definitely is a global sport, to suggest otherwise is incorrect

RuMan

walshb wrote: »

I have no issue. I was just pulling you up/debating on your claim a few pages back.

Track and filed is not clearly more competitive than the sports you named...[/QUOTE]

Well I'd dispute that certainly in regard to both golf and rugby.

I don't think you could dispute that Katie Taylor has a much easier route to a Olympic medal then Sonia O'Sullivan for example.

I suppose you could argue that lots of (rich) people play golf in Asia and South America but it's not even a debate in rugby. Nobody claims rugby is a global game, in fact a lot of people seem to like it precisely because it isn't.

Anyway can Mo do it ?

walshb

RuMan wrote: »

walshb wrote: »

Anyway can Mo do it ?

The double?

Yes he can. And I hope he does....

Just need to mute Foster during it...

robinph

Erik Shin wrote: »

Rugby most definitely is a global sport, to suggest otherwise is incorrect

Only in the same way that GAA is because a couple of Irish people will have been to every country at some point and hit a ball around with a strange shaped hockey stick and that the locals looked at them curiously wondering what it was. That doesn't make a global sport though.

Rugby may be played around the world, it is most definitely not played to a high standard or by many people around the world.

Jayesdiem

RuMan wrote: »

walshb wrote: »

There's no maybe about it. Boxing is a global sport...

Golf too...too expensive? What has that got to do with my claim that it's a global sport?

Rugby is a team sport and is played on all "continents."

Are there many poor Kenyans playing golf ?

It's a similar reason as to why the Brits dominate at that velodrome cycling. "Best in the world at sports poor countries cant afford."

Rugby is played in former colonies. Most of the world would not even know the rugby world cup is on. In contrast the soccer world cup is a worldwide event.
Everyone knows Messi/Ronaldo.
I've spent a lot of time in south America and they don't even recognise the game "is that American football" ? (other then a few posh parts of Buenos Aires).

Nothing wrong with that per se, but you may as well claim hurling is a Global game because some lads are having a puc about on Bondi beach !


Anyway this has little to do with athletics. Van Niekerk really is a lovely runner, gliding along.

Completely wrong about Argentina. That may be people's reactions in most of South America but you couldn't be further off the mark about Argentina. Rugby has always had huge club and player numbers, even outside BA (Tucuman, Mendoza, Córdoba, Salta, Rosario) and Argentina probably pull the highest attendances on average in the rugby championship (maybe its SA). It's not the people's game there but is one of the major sports given their success at world cups (3rd, 4th). Far better than what Ireland have ever achieved.

walshb

robinph wrote: »

Only in the same way that GAA is because a couple of Irish people will have been to every country at some point and hit a ball around with a strange shaped hockey stick and that the locals looked at them curiously wondering what it was. That doesn't make a global sport though.

Rugby may be played around the world, it is most definitely not played to a high standard or by many people around the world.

Yes, and there are loads places/countries where track and field is not played to a high standard? What's your point?

Anyway, rugby being a team sport is not something I'd debate too much, as track and field is very much individual. Not really accurate to compare.

RuMan

walshb wrote: »

RuMan wrote: »

The double?

Yes he can. And I hope he does....

Just need to mute Foster during it...

Hopefully. We all know what he's going to do but they just cant seem to beat him.

US are having a great worlds, you need them strong to raise the profile of the sport I feel.

walshb

RuMan wrote: »

walshb wrote: »

Hopefully. We all know what he's going to do but they just cant seem to beat him.

US are having a great worlds, you need them strong to raise the profile of the sport I feel.

Because he is the best.

I am kind of sick of people (not you) talking about this is the way to beat him and this isn't the way. They need to do this and they need to do that. He has shown that he can win any way.

Fook off and just enjoy the racing!

tunguska

Eyes Down Field wrote: »

I think the public and media vitriol against Justin Gatlin is disgusting. The man served his ban and paid the price. He is now the world champion, and people need to respect that. Many athletes would have taken a 4 year ban as the end of there career, Gatlin didn't give up, He fought back, trained hard and won the gold. He beat the legend that is Usain Bolt, along with his teammate, the world leading Christian Coleman.

The media has demonized this man for years, pushing the narrative that Bolt is some kind of Jesus-like savior for track athletics,and Gatlin is the devil. They are to blame from inciting and instigating hatred against Gatlin.

The funny thing is I was watching the video from the london 2012 100m final the other night. Gatlin was introduced and received a massive cheer, even though his circumstances where identical to what they are now i.e. he'd served 2 bans. That was completely down to how the media portrayed him, so the same people who cheered him in 2012 booed him in 2017. He was literally in the lions den the other night, held his nerve and became world champion. That takes a lot of character and strength. I wonder how many of those people who booed him the other night would have that kind of will and courage........ Renaud Lavillenie was booed in Rio and subsequently fell apart, he was literally in tears during and after the competition. Gatlin didnt cry, he didnt fall apart, he held his nerve in the most antagonistic of environments, even Lord Coe himself jumped in there with the studs and took a pop at him. Any man who can endure that kind of hostility and still come out champion has my respect. We're all sinners, and I venture to guess that in his life, Lord Coe himself has done disgraceful things. Ditto for the booers the other night.

RuMan

Jayesdiem wrote: »

Completely wrong about Argentina. That may be people's reactions in most of South America but you couldn't be further off the mark about Argentina. Rugby has always had huge club and player numbers, even outside BA (Tucuman, Mendoza, Córdoba, Salta, Rosario) and Argentina probably pull the highest attendances on average in the rugby championship (maybe its SA). It's not the people's game there but is one of the major sports given their success at world cups (3rd, 4th). Far better than what Ireland have ever achieved.

Correct

robinph

walshb wrote: »

Yes, and there are loads places/countries where track and field is not played to a high standard? What's your point?

Anyway, rugby being a team sport is not something I'd debate too much, as track and field is very much individual. Not really accurate to compare.

The point is that rugby is not a global sport that some have been trying to claim.

It is perfectly possible for any country on the planet to have someone qualify to compete in the 100m at the Olympics without needing a whole lot in the way of national sports infrastructure. It is by far the most accessible of the Olympic sports and you'll get more countries that you've never heard of and can't place on a globe potentially making it into the later rounds than for anything else.

robinph

tunguska wrote: »

The funny thing is I was watching the video from the london 2012 100m final the other night. Gatlin was introduced and received a massive cheer, even though his circumstances where identical to what they are now i.e. he'd served 2 bans. That was completely down to how the media portrayed him, so the same people who cheered him in 2012 booed him in 2017. He was literally in the lions den the other night, held his nerve and became world champion. That takes a lot of character and strength. I wonder how many of those people who booed him the other night would have that kind of will and courage........ Renaud Lavillenie was booed in Rio and subsequently fell apart, he was literally in tears during and after the competition. Gatlin didnt cry, he didnt fall apart, he held his nerve in the most antagonistic of environments, even Lord Coe himself jumped in there with the studs and took a pop at him. Any man who can endure that kind of hostility and still come out champion has my respect. We're all sinners, and I venture to guess that in his life, Lord Coe himself has done disgraceful things. Ditto for the booers the other night.

The crowd did nothing wrong this week booing Gatlin (he's a drug cheat and deserves to be booed), and they did nothing wrong in not booing him in 2012. As you say though, the only difference is that his name is now better known since 2015 and recognised as someone who previously failed drugs tests. If the announcer comes on and say "next is the 2004 Olympic champion" then people will just cheer as they don't know anything else about that person.

The rest of the convicted drugs cheats competing should also be booed, but not enough people in the stadium know who they are off the top of their heads. The TV commentary is good that they tend to say who has had previous bans, but the only details you get in the stadium is the name, country and what they may have won.

walshb

robinph wrote: »

The point is that rugby is not a global sport that some have been trying to claim.

It is

It is played in Europe, the Americas, Asia and Australia and Africa.

robinph

walshb wrote: »

It is

It is played in Europe, the Americas, Asia and Australia and Africa.

And golf is an interplanetary sport because someone hit a golf ball around on the moon.

Same with rally driving.

Jayesdiem

I love this "convicted" term in use for these drug cheats. Are they now criminals?

RuMan

walshb wrote: »

It is

It is played in Europe, the Americas, Asia and Australia and Africa.

Grand , so is hurling then -

https://www.balls.ie/gaa/international-hurling-festival-97436

walshb

RuMan wrote: »

Grand , so is hurling then -

https://www.balls.ie/gaa/international-hurling-festival-97436

So it is then!

walshb

Jayesdiem wrote: »

I love this "convicted" term in use for these drug cheats. Are they now criminals?

I know....the way some people speak of them you'd swear they were drug dealers...

Gatlin served his time and fought on. He has shown great mental strength and character to keep going. He loves the sport and loves competing.

His first failed test I can live with. The circumstances need to be looked at

The second one is the one that gets him, even though he claims innocence. They all do, or most anyway.

Gatlin spoiled the party, and for that he got booed even more...

35 and still running 9.9. I mean, love or loathe him that is just superb...

Joe_ Public

walshb wrote: »

I know....the way some people speak of them you'd swear they were drug dealers...

Gatlin served his time and fought on. He has shown great mental strength and character to keep going. He loves the sport and loves competing.

His first failed test I can live with. The circumstances need to be looked at

The second one is the one that gets him, even though he claims innocence. They all do, or most anyway.

Gatlin spoiled the party, and for that he got booed even more...

35 and still running 9.9. I mean, love or loathe him that is just superb...

I don't particularly care about the booing or the media demonisation, all just a sideshow.

But how do you suppose I square the apparent fact that he's running just as quick at 35 clean than he was at 25 on drugs? Should I have no issue with that and just enjoy it or question it in my addled mind?

Pherekydes

How did this thread get polluted with drugs, doping, cheats, and FFS, even golf?

Golf? :rolleyes:


Can we just stick to sport, specifically athletics?

robinph

Jayesdiem wrote: »

I love this "convicted" term in use for these drug cheats. Are they now criminals?

It's the wrong term, but my thesaurus chip is currently in for servicing and it's the best term to fit without leaving room for ambiguity. Wouldn't want people to get confused between drug cheats and people who have been banned for being drug cheats which are two different things. One of which can be talked about on the TV commentary, and here, without risk of anyone getting sued. The other can't.

walshb

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I don't particularly care about the booing or the media demonisation, all just a sideshow.

But how do you suppose I square the apparent fact that he's running just as quick at 35 clean than he was at 25 on drugs? Should I have no issue with that and just enjoy it or question it in my addled mind?

I was thinking the same thing. I think he was 1/10 better when he was in his 20s, which would point to natural results/regression to his 30s. Very few hit PBs when they go past 30. Some do, of course. 35 is a little old to be hitting a PB. He is regressing as he gets older, despite winning a title.

Now, in his very early 30s he was sub 9.8. That is impressive, but not extraordinary. He has since slowed down the past 3-4 years.

I believe he is competing clean today and over the past several years.

Bugsy2000

tunguska wrote: »

......... He was literally in the lions den the other night, held his nerve and became world champion. That takes a lot of character and strength......... Gatlin didnt cry, he didnt fall apart, he held his nerve in the most antagonistic of environments.......

I actually think the opposite here regarding being in the lions den. If you think back to the night of the final hardly anyone was talking about Gatlin after Bolt losing to Coleman in the semi. It was all, 'can Bolt overcome the new kid on the block'. For a short period of time Gatlin wasn't his big nemesis & I think it took the pressure off Gatlin and let him perform as he did.

If you think back to the past few global championships, Gatlin has possibly had the beating of Bolt but the pressure seemed to get to him (dipping early & nearly stumbling in Rio for example). I think with Coleman on the scene it took the pressure off him & he ran a more relaxed race (albeit a slow one)