The Road to London....... Build up to World Championships mod notes #342 and #653

walshb

Testosterscone wrote: »

Who would wanna be an elite athlete? accused of choking, faking injury, not being professional. Amazing how one week can undo 10 years in the eyes of fans :rolleyes:

I agree with you...

The same way this forum is awash with posters sullying the names of athletes who have never failed drugs tests..

Athletes breaking their balls for the love of their sport and their met with noting but derision and baseless accusations from prats on the internet..

Look at the recent bile being posted about Mo Farrah. Disgraceful stuff..

walshb

Chivito550 wrote: »

Anybody who thinks an athlete like Bolt is going to fake an injury and let his teammates down and do them out of a medal is utterly clueless. Par for the course on this forum though.

Maybe..

But you (on occasions) have no issues calling into question the integrity of athletes who have never been guilty of cheating-doping..

Why so shocked-exasperated that people are questioning Bolt pulling up?

Do you think MJ was injured back in 1997?

Where's the consistency?

EagererBeaver

walshb wrote: »

The same way this forum is awash with posters sullying the names of athletes who have never failed drugs tests..

Yeah, all those ****ers sullying the name of the likes of Lance Armstrong despite never failing a drug test.

Testosterscone

walshb wrote: »

I agree with you...

The same way this forum is awash with posters sullying the names of athletes who have never failed drugs tests..

Athletes breaking their balls for the love of their sport and their met with noting but derision and baseless accusations from prats on the internet..

Look at the recent bile being posted about Mo Farrah. Disgraceful stuff..

Problem is that they aren't baseless, there is a mountain of evidence (not proof) to justify the questioning especially as another of Farah's former training partners was busted for doping making 2 athletes, two training camp locations and two coaches that he has links to which are under the scrutiny or been found to have connections to doping.

Not to mention his admission of khat use (prior to it being on the banned list) and inconsistencies in testimony regarding such matters.

walshb

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Yeah, all those ****ers sullying the name of the likes of Lance Armstrong despite never failing a drug test.

He did fail a test..

Read up

And it has nothing to do with my point...

walshb

Testosterscone wrote: »

Problem is that they aren't baseless, there is a mountain of evidence (not proof) to justify the questioning especially as another of Farah's former training partners was busted for doping making 2 athletes, two training camp locations and two coaches that he has links two,

Not to mention his admission of khat use (prior to it being on the banned list) and inconsistencies in testimony regarding such matters.

Well, you could say no accusations are baseless...

To many the mere rumour or accusation is the base..

It's my wider point that touched on what you said...who would want to be an athlete with how they can be treated and portrayed..

EagererBeaver

walshb wrote: »

He did fail a test..

Read up

And it has nothing to do with my point...

But you're completely fudging the point by implying that people are condemning Farah when there's nothing to be suspicious of. There absolutely is - the refusal to discuss Salazar, the lies about Aden, the tightening up by British Athletics of media access to him etc.

Guilty or not of anything, it absolutely stinks, hence people rightly questioning matters.

Testosterscone

walshb wrote: »

Well, you could say no accusations are baseless...

To many the mere rumour or accusation is the base..

It's my wider point that touched on what you said...who would want to be an athlete with how they can be treated and portrayed..

I agree with this point (not about Farah mind you as I have said the mountain of evidence against him is damning) but many people do make lazy accusations (Frerichs being a prime example) without actually questions the reasons why they could be clean compared to the reasons of why they believe they are doped.

RuMan

sligeach wrote: »

If Bolt was thinking of getting into acting now that his athletic career is over, then that was a terrible audition last night. Sorry, but for me what happened there in that race stinks to high heaven. The timing of it, in his last race and given where he was he knew gold and silver were gone. If he did that on purpose then it was selfish as he cost his teammates a bronze medal.

What on earth are u on about?

thereisacar

So I'm guessing the British women's 4x100m relay team haven't been DQd?

walshb

Testosterscone wrote: »

I agree with this point (not about Farah mind you as I have said the mountain of evidence against him is damning) but many people do make lazy accusations (Frerichs being a prime example) without actually questions the reasons why they could be clean compared to the reasons of why they believe they are doped.

That's it...Mo is just one example..

As for the mountain of evidence...using the word 'evidence' is wrong and where I believe the ignorance lies. Evidence is a word that strongly implies (in this instance) proof of wrongdoing. It's shameful to sully Mo like this.

It's not proof at all. And you can bet Mo and his team can argue strongly against it..

The man has never failed a test...

Similar to Chris Froone...mountains of "evidence."

Mountains of nonsense a lot of it, and perfectly explainable.

EagererBeaver

walshb wrote: »

Mountains of nonsense a lot of it, and perfectly explainable.

Quite possibly. The problem is that they never explain any of it.

RuMan

Testosterscone wrote: »

I agree with this point (not about Farah mind you as I have said the mountain of evidence against him is damning) but many people do make lazy accusations (Frerichs being a prime example) without actually questions the reasons why they could be clean compared to the reasons of why they believe they are doped.

There's no more mountain of evidence against Farah then there is against all athletes ( all professional sports people in fact). Salazar is a pretty driven individual who will do what it takes to win, as he was when competing.

You can either believe they are all at it and choose to ignore professional sport or alternatively assume they are all at it and therefore assume it is a level playing field. Assuming Mo is on drugs but nobody else is however is naive.

adrian522

RuMan wrote: »

There's no more mountain of evidence against Farah then there is against all athletes ( all professional sports people in fact). Salazar is a pretty driven individual who will do what it takes to win, as he was when competing.

Indeed.

walshb

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Quite possibly. The problem is that they never explain any of it.

And most of it deserves nothing but ignoring...

If they have done nothing wrong they should not have to explain a thing...

A simple fook off..then sue the pr1cks.

RuMan

adrian522 wrote: »

Indeed.

Nobody survives in professional sport without a similar attitude.

Testosterscone

RuMan wrote: »

There's no more mountain of evidence against Farah then there is against all athletes ( all professional sports people in fact).

1. Training with Hamza Drouich who was facing a ban at the time (prohibited by IAAF) - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/athletics/11445617/Hamza-Driouch-the-drug-cheat-pictured-running-with-Mo-Farah-could-face-further-punishment.html

2. Pacer during his Kenyan training camps caught buying EPO -
http://honestsport.com/2017/08/11/revealed-sir-mo-farahs-training-partner-filmed-buying-epo-kenya/

3. Admitted Khat use shortly before it was banned -
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3228775/Mo-Farah-admits-did-drug-Khat.html

4. Current coach investigated by FBI over doping allegations-
https://www.outsideonline.com/2164486/did-salazar-investigation-just-go-big-time

5. Coach who supervised his Ethiopian sessions busted in doping raid -
http://www.flotrack.org/article/42791-jama-aden-coach-of-genzebe-dibaba-reportedly-arrested-in-doping-raid

6. Denies association despite pictures of being in his house prior having dinner-
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/06/20/21/357EA0A400000578-3651196-image-m-5_1466453813772.jpg

7. Use of calcitonin as a supplement against recommendations of British Athletics doctor - https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/feb/25/alberto-salazar-link-mo-farah-leaked-us-report-usada-russian-hackers

8. L-carnitine infusions not recorded correctly and believed to be above legal limit in cases according to USADA investigation - http://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/39627807

This is not taking into account the stuff such as the doorbell incidence, TUEs and the Panorama stuff which could be seen as speculatory more in line with the scrutiny of professional sport.

ThisRegard

walshb wrote: »

Look at the recent bile being posted about Mo Farrah. Disgraceful stuff..

I was just making a simple point that his good friend, the whiter than white Salazar, could have helped him find a good electrician to sort out his doorbell issues.

pc7

Hero the hedgehog me hole

ultrapercy

walshb wrote: »

Testosterscone wrote: »

Problem is that they aren't baseless, there is a mountain of evidence (not proof) to justify the questioning especially as another of Farah's former training partners was busted for doping making 2 athletes, two training camp locations and two coaches that he has links two,

Not to mention his admission of khat use (prior to it being on the banned list) and inconsistencies in testimony regarding such matters.

Well, you could say no accusations are baseless...

To many the mere rumour or accusation is the base..

It's my wider point that touched on what you said...who would want to be an athlete with how they can be treated and portrayed..

I dont know for sure but I think the enormous amount of money they earn, the fame and the status they achieve and the adulation they recieve might balance out the negativity a bit. That said any criticism of Bolt over this is ridiculouos.

ultrapercy

walshb wrote: »

Testosterscone wrote: »

Problem is that they aren't baseless, there is a mountain of evidence (not proof) to justify the questioning especially as another of Farah's former training partners was busted for doping making 2 athletes, two training camp locations and two coaches that he has links two,

Not to mention his admission of khat use (prior to it being on the banned list) and inconsistencies in testimony regarding such matters.

Well, you could say no accusations are baseless...

To many the mere rumour or accusation is the base..

It's my wider point that touched on what you said...who would want to be an athlete with how they can be treated and portrayed..

I dont know for sure but I think the enormous amount of money they earn, the fame and the status they achieve and the adulation they recieve might balance out the negativity a bit. That said any criticism of Bolt over this is ridiculouos.

Testosterscone

Moving on anyway some great races to come.

Interested to see how Obiri faces off against Ayana. Prior to the championships I would have said she was a lock for the gold off her seasons performances. Given the field I expect the pace to be hot but if not think Hassan could become a factor.

Think the Big 3 will come good in the 800 to be honest despite Wilson putting it up to them in Monaco.

Interested to see will Kiprop upset and come good after a turbulent season. Nick Willis has been chasing fitness the last 6 weeks but is always a danger for a sneaky medal.

In 4x400 was suprised to see Botswana not make the final, on paper had them as dark horses to challenge given the credentials (though Makwala missing harmed I still expected a good bit quicker than 3.06)

El Caballo

Testosterscone wrote: »

Problem is that they aren't baseless, there is a mountain of evidence (not proof) to justify the questioning especially as another of Farah's former training partners was busted for doping making 2 athletes, two training camp locations and two coaches that he has links to which are under the scrutiny or been found to have connections to doping.

Not to mention his admission of khat use (prior to it being on the banned list) and inconsistencies in testimony regarding such matters.

Khat? the drug that he admitted to taking without questioning in 2003 out of competition before it was banned so admitting to a drug no one ever asked him about is inconsistent?

As for the training partner busted for EPO, He can hardly be called a training partner when all he did was pace Farah's workouts as far as he could which he by the articles, he did for many foreign athletes. If I went to to Iten in the morning and he paced me, is that evidence of me doping? Here's the pacers side of the story?

http://sportsnewsarena.com/kenyan-runner-claims-he-was-duped-to-implicate-doctors-and-athletes-

I don't even like Salazar but the evidence of rule breaking is very slim for Mo, Neither Goucher or Steve Magness had any evidence against Farah doping and they are insiders. I also have to question why would a coach give an athlete legal blood boosting supplements like L-carnitine to an athlete who is taking epo, that makes absolutely no sense.

I do believe what is happening in NOP is ethically questionable but who decides what ethical in a sport where the line is drawn by the WADA on what you can and can't do. The evidence against Farah is far from damning at this point as everything is by association and if the sport is as dirty as all these recent revelations are saying, it's pretty easy to have association with doping.

Why don't we question our own athletes who have links to doping like Rob Heffernan whose coach was banned for EPO use and Rob also showed some biological passport anomalies in the fancy bear hacks? And no one on the RTE panel ever brings that up either but maybe our rose tinted bias is greater than the BBC. Realise this post will ruffle a few feathers but that's the point, we know absolutely nothing about these athletes but make assumptions based off what little info we have and the case for both Farah and Heffernan are the same, all assumptions of guilt by association without any real evidence.

There is no damning evidence against either.

Erik Shin

pc7 wrote: »

Hero the hedgehog me hole

You want a hedgehog up your hole.... that's way too many pricks!!!

velo.2010

World record on here?

Testosterscone

El Caballo wrote: »

Why don't we question our own athletes who have links to doping like Rob Heffernan whose coach was banned for EPO use and Rob also showed some biological passport anomalies in the fancy bear hacks? And no one on the RTE panel ever brings that up either but maybe our rose tinted bias is greater than the BBC. Realise this post will ruffle a few feathers but that's the point, we know absolutely nothing about these athletes but make assumptions based off what little info we have and the case for both Farah and Heffernan are the same, all assumptions of guilt by association without any real evidence.

There is no damning evidence against either.

There are actually plenty who question his association with Paco, his failed test in 2015 and the retrospective TUE.

My point was that each athlete is a case by case basis, while they all shouldn't be tarred with the same brush if there is numerous suspect factors it does warrant a healthy skepticism and curiosity. Ignorance and bias have no place in trying to make all sport cleaner while at the same time not being so cynical that you can't appreciate genuine feats of human performance.

28064212

What a last lap by Obiri! Incredible run

walshb

velo.2010 wrote: »

World record on here?

1st lap I could have kept up..

Super last 300 from Obiri!

El Caballo

Testosterscone wrote: »

There are actually plenty who question his association with Paco, his failed test in 2015 and the retrospective TUE.

My point was that each athlete is a case by case basis, while they all shouldn't be tarred with the same brush if there is numerous suspect factors it does warrant a health skepticism and curiosity. Ignorance and bias have no place in trying to make all sport cleaner while at the same time not being so cynical that you can't appreciate genuine feats of human performance.

I'm not disagreeing with the intent but for the most part of what I come across on forums is grounds for suspicion mistaken for fact.

titan18

Most farcical race of the championship here