The Road to London....... Build up to World Championships mod notes #342 and #653

The Golden Miller

RuMan wrote: »

It can be pointed out but it comes across as petty and churlish ( not to mention anti British which seems to be a theme in this thread).

An Olympic gold medal is the pinnacle of our sport, nothing else comes close. (World records are nowhere close).

Mo has 4 Olympic gold medals, personally I will miss both him and Bolt on the track and wish them both all the best.

Both great champions who almost always delivered on the big occasions. I've enjoyed watching Mo.

An Olympic gold was the pinnacle of distance running at one point, just as the BDO world championships were once the pinnacle of darts. Times move on, and the top distance runners have all transitioned to the road. The guys running the 10k on the track today are the second tier distance runners, simple at that. I never brought world records into this, you were the one who shoehorned them in, so as to conveniently ignore this point. Times may no be the be all and end all, but they certainly give a good indication of the standard. And you've a very short memory if you think Mo always delivered on the big occasions.

walshb

The Golden Miller wrote: »

An Olympic gold was the pinnacle of distance running at one point, just as the BDO world championships were once the pinnacle of darts. Times move on, and the top distance runners have all transitioned to the road. The guys running the 10k on the track today are the second tier distance runners, simple at that. I never brought world records into this, you were the one who shoehorned them in, so as to conveniently ignore this point. Times may no be the be all and end all, but they certainly give a good indication of the standard.

Transitioning to the road because they are no longer the force they were on the track...

The longer distances are targeted because the leg speed is not what it used to be.

I really don't get the point you are making here.

Trying to somehow diminish Mo's golds at the Olympic Games...It's absurd.

Bekele's golds in Beijing? Were they so much more impressive or worthy?

Mo's winning time last week was faster than both Bekele's gold medal wins from 2004 and 2008....

Chivito550

velo.2010 wrote: »

Watching from home, there was an apparent lack of atmosphere in the stadiums - granted, it may have been different in the actual stadium. IIRC, the morning sessions at those champs didn't have the attendances that London had.

If your in Doha in two years, it'll be you and your colleagues/team staff filling the stands.

Daegu was the first time I had ever seen big crowds for morning sessions. Koreans haven't a clue about athletics so many bought the cheapest tickets not knowing what they were buying. Morning session attendances were not far off evening as a result.

Moscow had dismal morning attendances but after about Day 3 of championships the attendances in the evenings were very good. It doesn't help that it's an 80,000 stadium. Atmosphere was great. Women's 4x400 in those championships is still the best atmosphere I've experienced.

Beijing was brilliantly supported every evening. I can't really recall the mornings funny enough but was much better than Moscow in that regard. Evenings were 45,000-50,000 or so every night.

Rio was poor but there are many reasons for that. The location of the stadium, miles away from the other sports, the stupid prices of the tickets, and the fact Brazilians don't care about athletics all contributed to bad attendances. The IAAF would never in a million years bring a World Championships there, but with the Olympics they had their hands tied.

I do worry about Doha though. That's the one bit I agree with you on. Lamine Diack is a scumbag and has screwed the sport with his corruption.

The Golden Miller

walshb wrote: »

Transitioning to the road because they are no longer the force they were on the track...

The longer distances are targeted because the leg speed is not what it used to be.

I really don't get the point you are making here.

Trying to somehow diminish Mo's golds at the Olympic Games...It's absurd.

Bekele's golds in Beijing? Were they so much more impressive or worthy?

Mo's winning time last week was faster than both Bekele's gold medal wins from 2004 and 2008....

The tracks Mondo have supplied since 2008 are fast tracks, particularly state of the art one's such as London. This was well discussed when the Olympics were held there. Science and conditioning has also come along way in 10 years too. Haile would probably break his own 10k pb on track with the way things stand.

Well no gold medal is more worthy than another, but you can certainly gauge that Bekele was running to a far higher standard and injected pace into races from the off. Pace that is not there anymore, where Mo can sit in behind a comfortable pace and outsprint guys who don't have the same kick. He didn't have that luxury against Bekele for example

Well no, many of the top distance runners are going straight for the road as there is more money in it. Kipchoge for example hardly even bothered with the track after a few years.

walshb

The Golden Miller wrote: »

The tracks Mondo have supplied since 2008 are fast tracks, particularly state of the art one's such as London. This was well discussed when the Olympics were held there. Science and conditioning has also come along way in 10 years too. Haile would probably break his own 10k pb on track with the way things stand.

Well no gold medal is more worthy than another, but you can certainly gauge that Bekele was running to a far higher standard and injected pace into races from the off. Pace that is not there anymore, where Mo can sit in behind a comfortable pace and outsprint guys who don't have the same kick. He didn't have that luxury against Bekele for example

Well no, many of the top distance runners are going straight for the road as there is more money in it. Kipchoge for example hardly even bothered with the track after a few years.

Kipchoge had his success on the track....

He simply was not up to Bekele's level. Anyway, Mo is every bit the runner that Kipchoge was on the track.

Take away Bekele's WR times and Mo is a more successful medal athlete at global championships.

To speculate who would have won when both at their peaks over 5 and 10? The smart money is on Bekele due to the times he ran, but that doesn't mean that Mo couldn't hang with him...

The Golden Miller

walshb wrote: »

Kipchoge had his success on the track....

He simply was not up to Bekele's level. Anyway, Mo is every bit the runner that Kipchoge was on the track.

Take away Bekele's WR times and Mo is a more successful medal athlete at global championships.

To speculate who would have won when both at their peaks over 5 and 10? The smart money is on Bekele due to the times he ran, but that doesn't mean that Mo couldn't hang with him...

Well no one is on Bekele's level. Yes, Kipchoge did have success on the track but could have had alot more success. He moved across very early because the monetary incentives are alot bigger. Road running is now becoming the standard bearer of greatness in distance running, and more and more emphasis is being placed on it from a younger age by the top guys. That is just the way it's gone. Whether Mo is every bit the runner Kipchoge is, isn't the point. The point is Mo is up against no one who is of the same caliber as people like Kipchoge or indeed himself.

Yes, I'm aware Mo has passed Bekele out in the global medal count in major championships, which is entirely due to the fact that Bekele got injured and the aforementioned poor quality he now competes against. The fact Bekele set those times on slower tracks just shows the gulf in quality.

I believe it is important to put context to Mo's success when you have to deal with the British media and the hyperbole nonsense they come out with. As far as many Britons are concerned, Mo is now the great distance runner off all time. When Bekele ran in the Olympics there was hardly a mention of his lack of fitness, they would rather have you believe Mo beat Bekele at his best

RuMan

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Well no one is on Bekele's level. Yes, Kipchoge did have success on the track but could have had alot more success. He moved across very early because the monetary incentives are alot bigger. Road running is now becoming the standard bearer of greatness in distance running, and more and more emphasis is being placed on it from a younger age by the top guys. That is just the way it's gone. Whether Mo is every bit the runner Kipchoge is, isn't the point. The point is Mo is up against no one who is of the same caliber as people like Kipchoge or indeed himself.

Yes, I'm aware Mo has passed Bekele out in the global medal count in major championships, which is entirely due to the fact that Bekele got injured and the aforementioned poor quality he now competes against. The fact Bekele set those times on slower tracks just shows the gulf in quality.

I believe it is important to put context to Mo's success when you have to deal with the British media and the hyperbole nonsense they come out with. As far as many Britons are concerned, Mo is now the great distance runner off all time. When Bekele ran in the Olympics there was hardly a mention of his lack of fitness, they would rather have you believe Mo beat Bekele at his best

I don't get this, the Irish media weren't particularly objective about Sonia nor are they about our soccer/rugby teams.

I've been in the US for an Olympics and if anything they are worse the Brits.
The Aussies are horrendously partisan, so much so I found myself cheering England in the 2003 Rugby WC !

BBC is for a British audience, clearly they will be biased towards a Brit athlete

EagererBeaver

RuMan wrote: »

I don't get this, the Irish media weren't particularly objective about Sonia nor are they about our soccer/rugby teams.

Slaughtering our representative sports terms and players is a national pastime in Ireland, including in the media.

RuMan

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Slaughtering our representative sports terms and players is a national pastime in Ireland, including in the media.

Sonia was never slaughtered. There aren't many Irish who have had the same success as Mo, golf or boxing possibly ?

Nearest I can think is Roche/Kelly in cycling, unanimous approval at the time and even now almost no criticism other then Kimmage. Any criticism is at that sport as a whole.

EagererBeaver

RuMan wrote: »

Sonia was never slaughtered. There aren't many Irish who have had the same success as Mo, golf or boxing possibly ?

Nearest I can think is Roche/Kelly in cycling, unanimous approval at the time and even now almost no criticism other then Kimmage. Any criticism is at that sport as a whole.

You specifically mentioned the rugby and soccer teams. They get routinely shredded live on RTE, in the papers following games, on podcasts etc.

Given that you mention cycling, the reason (along with all the other dubious factors) Mo is so controversial and always under suspicion, is the exact same as Froome - he went up several gears at the age of 27 having been distinctly average by world elite standards until then.

Tombo2001

My number one favourite moment from these games:

The last water jump in the womens steeplechase. Coburn has the opportunity on the inside as i think Jepkemoi is trying to force Frerichs to go wide. Then Jepkemoi has a bad jump and landing in the water, it looks because of fatigue. If Jepkemoi had held the inside line, might have been a different result though probably not .....

https://www.instagram.com/p/BXsweOdlGWJ/?hl=en&taken-by=emmacoburn

Tombo2001

My number two favourite moment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE-sQf7nX1E

Bosse take his position from 300m to 200m; then takes I'd say not even a full second to settle and see the lie of the land at the front of the group - and takes off, goes for it.

Real instinctive running, but also a perfectly executed strategy.

RuMan

EagererBeaver wrote: »

You specifically mentioned the rugby and soccer teams. They get routinely shredded live on RTE, in the papers following games, on podcasts etc.

Given that you mention cycling, the reason (along with all the other dubious factors) Mo is so controversial and always under suspicion, is the exact same as Froome - he went up several gears at the age of 27 having been distinctly average by world elite standards until then.

The rugby team aren't slaughtered for not scoring enough tries after winning the grandslam which is apparently what some here want the BBC to do with Mo.

I mentioned cycling as Roche/Kelly were never slaughtered here. There's far more evidence of them taking something then there is of Mo yet I don't recall RTE highlighting it.

I certainly don't recall RTE doing a Panorama programme on Roche or Kellys coach. Yet the BBC is biased?

walshb

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Given that you mention cycling, the reason (along with all the other dubious factors) Mo is so controversial and always under suspicion, is the exact same as Froome - he went up several gears at the age of 27 having been distinctly average by world elite standards until then.

That's not true. He simply peaked at a later age than some others. This is not an exact science.

He still has not run extraordinary times for 5 and 10 k....He did not go up several gears. That is BS.

Mo is a career great runner. Aged 23 or so he was running 13:09 for 5 k. That's world class....

His PB for 5 k is what, 12.53 or something. No issue there at all as regards progression. I think he ran this time 5 or so years ago aged 28/29.

There are examples of many greats running PBs in their late 20s and some in their 30s..

Look at Coe over 1500?

Was he 30 or more when he ran his PB?

IvoryTower

looks second to me, should have dipped

walshb

pac_man wrote: »

Not sure if it has been discussed already but I remember watching it live and thinking the Ivory Coast athlete (Ta Lou) should have won the 100M Women's final. What does everyone else think?

I agree. I felt she was the winner too...

They were separated by 1/100th.....so I guess she wasn't the winner...

The Golden Miller

RuMan wrote: »

I don't get this, the Irish media weren't particularly objective about Sonia nor are they about our soccer/rugby teams.

I've been in the US for an Olympics and if anything they are worse the Brits.
The Aussies are horrendously partisan, so much so I found myself cheering England in the 2003 Rugby WC !

BBC is for a British audience, clearly they will be biased towards a Brit athlete

But we're not exposed to the Aussia and US media in the same way we're exposed to the British media so it's not really relevant. Nor is the Irish media even close to the same level of nauseating hyperbole when we have a successful sportsperson. So the British media can't be criticised on their own merits without having to give some whataboutery about what other countries do? If we in Ireland are exposed to that rubbish, then there is nothing wrong with discussing it and giving it context

Pherekydes

Looks clear cut to me:

Chivito550

Guys, would you rather Channel 4 and Ortis Deley like in Daegu 2011?

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xkswky

RuMan

The Golden Miller wrote: »

But we're not exposed to the Aussia and US media in the same way we're exposed to the British media so it's not really relevant. Nor is the Irish media even close to the same level of nauseating hyperbole when we have a successful sportsperson. So the British media can't be criticised on their own merits without having to give some whataboutery about what other countries do? If we in Ireland are exposed to that rubbish, then there is nothing wrong with discussing it and giving it context

1) You don't pay the BBC license fee and therefore are not the target audience.
2) There was an IAAF feed buy YOU CHOSE to watch the BBC.

I could spend my time complaining about Fair City or I could say, this is sh*t so I wont watch it! Presumably those who do believe it is not sh*t.

Chivito550

“I don’t even know how to feel, I’m just numb at the moment. The first thing that comes to my mind is that I’m proud, so proud. Every single emotion you can think of that you hold in your body just came out over that finish line.”

Spoke to Australia's Sally Pearson after she took gold in the 100m hurdles on Saturday night in London.

https://www.iaaf.org/competitions/iaaf-world-championships/iaaf-world-championships-london-2017-5151/news/feature/women/100-metres-hurdles

The Golden Miller

RuMan wrote: »

1) You don't pay the BBC license fee and therefore are not the target audience.
2) There was an IAAF feed buy YOU CHOSE to watch the BBC.

I could spend my time complaining about Fair City or I could say, this is sh*t so I wont watch it! Presumably those who do believe it is not sh*t.

Many in Britain have the same complaint as I'm sure you're aware. Many Irish watch it and are often ill informed. So on the basis of those two points, I'll give an opinion on the BBC if I wish. To follow your logic further, we can only criticise politicians, businesses, banks etc if they are Irish? And how do you know how the BBC view the Irish market? If we weren't an extended target audience we'd be blocked

Eyes Down Field

pac_man wrote: »

Not sure if it has been discussed already but I remember watching it live and thinking the Ivory Coast athlete (Ta Lou) should have won the 100M Women's final. What does everyone else think?

It's first to the line. Bowie wanted it more. Yes Ta Lou should have won but she wasn't willing to put her body on the line to get it, In a game of millimeters and hundreds of a second, You have to be willing to fight for every single one

Chivito550

“I feel like Jonathan sees it in us, he sees that we are capable of it. It seems to be the topic of conversation between us when we meet. You can feel him starting to let it go. He knows that it is coming."

Spoke to USA triple jumper Will Claye ahead of his World Record attempt in the French Alps tomorrow.

https://www.iaaf.org/competitions/iaaf-world-championships/iaaf-world-championships-london-2017-5151/news/feature/men/triple-jump

Testosterscone

Bolt released medical records to quash doubters;

http://www.flotrack.org/article/60460-usain-bolt-reveals-hamstring-tear-diagnosis#.WZaN8IZenYU

If anything he looks like he played down the injury on the night as it's a fairly significant one

Testosterscone

Chivito550 wrote: »

“I feel like Jonathan sees it in us, he sees that we are capable of it. It seems to be the topic of conversation between us when we meet. You can feel him starting to let it go. He knows that it is coming."

Spoke to USA triple jumper Will Claye ahead of his World Record attempt in the French Alps tomorrow.

https://www.iaaf.org/competitions/iaaf-world-championships/iaaf-world-championships-london-2017-5151/news/feature/men/triple-jump

Looks like they came up short

http://www.runblogrun.com/2017/08/manyonga-leaps-846m-will-claye-over-christian-taylor-in-chilly-tignes-france.html

Dunno how I feel about these sort of exhibitions seem to drum up a bit of attention but think sport prob needs to focus on head to heads and personalities rather than setting artificially un achieveablr performance marks.

walshb

Not sure it's been mentioned but 800 metres champion, Bosse suffered nasty facial injuries in a violent assault by three men recently...desperate.

Chivito550

walshb wrote: »

Not sure it's been mentioned but 800 metres champion, Bosse suffered nasty facial injuries in a violent assault by three men recently...desperate.

Awful. He's such a genuinely nice guy. Appalling acts. They pretended to be fans and asked him for a photo. Despicable.

Tombo2001

walshb wrote: »

Not sure it's been mentioned but 800 metres champion, Bosse suffered nasty facial injuries in a violent assault by three men recently...desperate.

The ups and downs of life.

Reminds me a bit of this appalling incident; with footage of a running spot that a lot of people here will know very well.

http://www.rte.ie/archives/category/sports/2016/1219/839972-eamonn-coghlan-bitten-by-dog/