My Attitude to Alcohol

LegacyUser

I think I may have a problem with alcohol. I'm not suggesting that I'm an alcoholic, nor am I asking for any diagnosis. I've opened this thread to discuss my attitude to alcohol, how damaging it has been to my life and what advice you may or may not have to help me recalibrate my focus.

In summary, I regularly binge on alcohol even when I have little funds. I'd spend well in excess of €50 on one night - the last weekend, I binged Friday, Saturday, Sunday and last night. I don't drink to "drown my sorrows". I simply enjoy socializing with friends and my significant other. However, these regular binges are coming at a significant cost - and not just financial. Over the past decade, I've probably lost over two dozen good friends due to something I've said or done while drinking. That being said, the vast majority of times when I drink, these negative episodes don't happen.

Drinking is also impacting my work productivity. I've even missed important deadlines as a direct result of consciously choosing to go out. I almost never go out for 2-3 pints; it always leads to at least 8 drinks, a blank phase and getting up too late the next morning. That being said, I don't think I have a problem with drink per se - in the "dependent" sense. I don't feel cravings for the substance. I simply think I've underestimated how damaging alcohol consumption has been to my life.

With these broad contours in mind, have any of you experienced something similar and what advice can you offer me? I regularly try to limit my alcohol consumption but I've seldom reached beyond 5 days before the aforementioned binges commence. Again, I'm not looking for anything diagnostic here. I'd like to hear what advice you have for me and how you read my situation. Sometimes it's good to hear outside perspective.

zoobizoo

Don't order your first drink because one leads to too many.

Weigh up your pros and cons

Other than getting out and wasted, what are the pros?

The cons seem pretty severe to me. 24 friends gone....


You do have a problem with drink - it may not be dependency but it is a problem.

QueenRizla

drinking_away wrote: »

That being said, I don't think I have a problem with drink per se - in the "dependent" sense.

Right....OP you may not realise but the level of contradiction & denial is absolutely astounding and text book. 'Broad Contours' indeed!
You don't want a diagnosis, just advice. OK get into a residential programme asap, you might then realise how rock bottom you are. Believe me you will be surprised to find your story will make you one of the most difficult and far along cases they will be treating.
If money is an issue ring around to see what payment options are or if you have insurance it will be covered.
Be prepared to spend as long as it takes to get right.

Mr. Incognito

Hello there,

If you were in any other country rather than Ireland you would be seen as a very serious alcoholic.

http://www.alcoholicsanonymous.ie/Information-on-AA/Is-AA-for-You?/Questions

I had a lot of these sympthoms and simply had to stop drinking.

LegacyUser

Thanks for the helpful responses.

I'd be lying if I said I'm not shocked by these responses. I expected my approach to alcohol to be bashed, of that I had no doubt. But I wasn't prepared to see the reaction above - to see phrases such as "severe alcoholic" etc.

Perhaps I am in denial? From my perspective, I see an issue with consumption but not with alcohol itself. I think perhaps I should be more responsible with my alcohol use. But does that mean I have to give up alcohol altogether? Am I a lost cause and resigned to staying abstinent from here on out?

Hmm I appreciate the responses. They've given me food for thought. If anyone else has any helpful commentary, I'd be happy to hear that too.

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Teyla Emmagan

So you can't go 5 days without getting drunk. You drink so much it affects your job, your finances and your relationships. You have a drinking problem OP. You're psychologically hooked even if you're not physically hooked (and if your brain starts screaming at you for a drink after 5 days I'd say your physically hooked too). You don't mention your health but it's only a matter if time before that goes too. I'm not judging you, it's your life. But don't lie to yourself at least about it. Right now you're a functioning alcoholic, but it can get a whole lot worse for you. Don't kid yourself otherwise.

LegacyUser

You've a clear problem. I suspect the people you surround yourself with enjoy drinking to excess too & it's somehow normalised in your head. My advice is don't compare yourself to other people or who you surround yourself by. You can easily fall into a trap of justifying your drinking by comparing to others. Maybe they've a problem too. Maybe they had 1 binge when you had 4 in a row. Maybe your view of alcoholism is the image of the pathetic barfly propping up the bar at your local. I don't know tbh.

Well done for being honest & writing your OP. Now I hope you figure out how much of a problem you have & you go get help.

LegacyUser

Judgenot wrote: »

You've a clear problem. I suspect the people you surround yourself with enjoy drinking to excess too & it's somehow normalised in your head. My advice is don't compare yourself to other people or who you surround yourself by. You can easily fall into a trap of justifying your drinking by comparing to others. Maybe they've a problem too. Maybe they had 1 binge when you had 4 in a row. Maybe your view of alcoholism is the image of the pathetic barfly propping up the bar at your local. I don't know tbh.

Well done for being honest & writing your OP. Now I hope you figure out how much of a problem you have & you go get help.

I don't doubt the sincerity of posters here, who are clearly identifying something to a greater extent than my limited perspective can see.

I had wondered, but I wasn't sure. Again, I don't feel a craving for the substance like smokers talk about when it comes to nicotine. I also don't go out with the intention of getting drunk, nor do I go out to drown my sorrows. Yes - there's a problem, but I think it's very different to the standard conception of what an "alcoholic" actually is. But yes, a problem nonetheless - no matter what label we might wish to attach.

Based on the posts above, I've resolved to change my ways. I'm not the type to use public supports, so, I think I'll do my own thing. This is my second day now without an alcoholic drink. I don't intend to have any for the remainder of the month; I'd like to test my resolve, improve my health and develop new interests to take the place of drinking.

I'll keep everyone posted here as to my progress. I hope the Mod's don't mind this approach, just it might actually aid me knowing that I have a forum here to express how I'm progressing and to voice any difficulties I might face. I don't intend to consult friends or family throughout this hopeful period of change. It might even help or encourage others who are experiencing something similar.

Thanks again for the advice.

zoobizoo

drinking_away wrote: »

But I wasn't prepared to see the reaction above - to see phrases such as "severe alcoholic" etc.

But does that mean I have to give up alcohol altogether? Am I a lost cause and resigned to staying abstinent from here on out?

Howya again OP,

I wouldn't have labeled you an alcoholic but you have an unsustainable relationship with alcohol, a relationship which you have put ahead of friendships.

But, contact Al-anon and they might be able to qualify what bracket you fall under. Or even your GP.

I guess you could test if you are addicted by seeing how long you can go without having a drink? Can you go to the pub and not drink for example.

Don't get me wrong, I used to be a binge drinker. Fridays and Saturday nights... drinking to have a good time but blacking out and waking up with the fear. Luckily it never really impacted on friendships. It did impact on work in terms of not being able to function on a Friday if I had been on an after work bender on a Thursday.


The older I've gotten, the better relationships I've developed, the better friendships, the more time I wanted and did spend on hobbies, the more productive things I've had in my life, the less I've wanted to go out and drink to excess.

I prioritise getting up early on a Saturday morning and meeting friends to go surfing/sailing/walking over having that extra pint in the pub on a Friday night.


I have a reason to not binge drink - maybe you need to find something similar?

kylith

drinking_away wrote: »

Perhaps I am in denial? From my perspective, I see an issue with consumption but not with alcohol itself. I think perhaps I should be more responsible with my alcohol use. But does that mean I have to give up alcohol altogether? Am I a lost cause and resigned to staying abstinent from here on out?

The only way to know that is to try it. Can you go out and have 2 pints, then go home? If you can then the issue is just knowing when to stop. If you can't then, yes, you have a major problem and may need to cut it out altogether.

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miamee

drinking_away wrote: »

I think I may have a problem with alcohol. I'm not suggesting that I'm an alcoholic, nor am I asking for any diagnosis. I've opened this thread to discuss my attitude to alcohol, how damaging it has been to my life and what advice you may or may not have to help me recalibrate my focus.

In summary, I regularly binge on alcohol even when I have little funds. I'd spend well in excess of €50 on one night - the last weekend, I binged Friday, Saturday, Sunday and last night. I don't drink to "drown my sorrows". I simply enjoy socializing with friends and my significant other. However, these regular binges are coming at a significant cost - and not just financial. Over the past decade, I've probably lost over two dozen good friends due to something I've said or done while drinking. That being said, the vast majority of times when I drink, these negative episodes don't happen.

Drinking is also impacting my work productivity. I've even missed important deadlines as a direct result of consciously choosing to go out. I almost never go out for 2-3 pints; it always leads to at least 8 drinks, a blank phase and getting up too late the next morning. That being said, I don't think I have a problem with drink per se - in the "dependent" sense. I don't feel cravings for the substance. I simply think I've underestimated how damaging alcohol consumption has been to my life.

With these broad contours in mind, have any of you experienced something similar and what advice can you offer me? I regularly try to limit my alcohol consumption but I've seldom reached beyond 5 days before the aforementioned binges commence. Again, I'm not looking for anything diagnostic here. I'd like to hear what advice you have for me and how you read my situation. Sometimes it's good to hear outside perspective.

You say that alcohol has negatively affected your work, your friendships and your finances.

You say you don't have a dependency but you also say you regularly try to limit your alcohol but rarely get further than 5 days. That sounds like a dependency to me. You say that the binges commence after 5 day. Not that you go drinking or you decide to give up - they just start. Out of your control. Do you have any control at all over your habit?
Can you go without alcohol on a weekend? Can you get through a weekend without going to the pub or will you convince yourself that drinking at home is not as bad as going to the pub?

These are questions you need to ask yourself and if you don't know the answers I'd suggest trying them out. If you were put in a position where you had to give up alcohol for your own physical or mental health, could you do it?

valoren

Ask yourself. If from this moment on you could never have another alcoholic drink, how would you feel about that?
If you are honest with yourself it will reveal your true relationship with alcohol.

Alcoholic has such negative connotations to it. Addict is more apt. The addiction lies in that euphoric feeling you get half way down the third pint. While it would be great if it stopped there, you seem to go beyond that euphoria far too regularly and get smashed.

It's an addictive drug. Personally I think its the most nefarious of all recreational drugs. It's a psychoactive substance dressed up as a thirst quenching Drink. A wolf in sheeps clothing basically. There is no shame in admitting to having an addiction to any drug. Admitting to yourself is half the battle. No one else need know you are having problems with the booze. Are you sweet mouthed OP? You could be simply moreish from the sugars in the drinks themselves, that coupled with the alcohol, lower inhibition can make you drink to extremes if you are sweet mouthed. It's like opening a pack of gun, taking one, then craving the rest of the pack immediately.

One can smoke daily and loudly exclaim they are addicts, almost taking pride in it "I can't quit! I've tried everything!" kind of thing. But they can drink regularly to excess, to the point that it damages their, health, finances, relationships and career and swear blind that they are not an 'Alcoholic'. After all alcoholics are bums on skid row right?? People get incredibly defensive if you ask pointed questions about their drinking habits.

On a night out can you alternate drinks? Pint-Coke-Pint-Water-Pint-Coke perhaps?
While you are still drinking, your mates might take the piss. If they do that then you need to consider if they are actual friends and not drinking buddies. "If we're all getting pissed, then no one has a problem"

You are still socialising but not getting to the point of becoming incoherent, causing trouble for yourself.
Can you focus on enjoying the drink in and of itself? Sometimes there nothing nicer than a nice pint of beer on a warm day, a glass of wine at a restaurant or a pint of stout in a pub during the winter. You will still get the euphoric feeling from the drug but you will be far more capable of managing it for yourself.

Nobody wants you to see alcohol as black and white. On the wagon or off it. You need to re-evaluate your relationship with it and if you can't drink without recrimination then it might just have to be a case of going cold turkey for good unfortunately. And that's no bad thing either.

Chancer3001

I'm in the exact same boat as the OP.

out for 2 pints and go home...whats even the point? Might as well have none.

It's an addiction to the Craic. And the good times. And all are centred around the drink. Not to the alcohol itself.

Imo the OP could give up drinking for a month at the drop of a hat, it's more that we've never learned to drink within our limits. It's 0mph or 100mph.

It's a problem but one you can get on top of. Set yourself some other goals. Something fitness based maybe, because that'll force you to stay in when you want to go out.

LegacyUser

zoobizoo wrote: »

Howya again OP,

I wouldn't have labeled you an alcoholic but you have an unsustainable relationship with alcohol, a relationship which you have put ahead of friendships.

But, contact Al-anon and they might be able to qualify what bracket you fall under. Or even your GP.

I guess you could test if you are addicted by seeing how long you can go without having a drink? Can you go to the pub and not drink for example.

Don't get me wrong, I used to be a binge drinker. Fridays and Saturday nights... drinking to have a good time but blacking out and waking up with the fear. Luckily it never really impacted on friendships. It did impact on work in terms of not being able to function on a Friday if I had been on an after work bender on a Thursday.


The older I've gotten, the better relationships I've developed, the better friendships, the more time I wanted and did spend on hobbies, the more productive things I've had in my life, the less I've wanted to go out and drink to excess.

I prioritise getting up early on a Saturday morning and meeting friends to go surfing/sailing/walking over having that extra pint in the pub on a Friday night.


I have a reason to not binge drink - maybe you need to find something similar?

Al-anon is for those affected by another's drinking, Not the same as Alcoholics Anonymous. And yeah OP checks many of the boxes for dependency and addiction.

Feets

Hi there. If u are asking for thoughts and help here is my two cents. I grew up like you surrounded with people like that. Getting blotto out of control. So I get it. It is good that you have become aware that maybe there are other ways. The longer you go on like this though...the harder it is to stop it. And you really could do with acting differently. If I lost two dozen friends/acquaintances...I would have no one left. There is something that is causing you to be unhappy and escape in drink. It could be worth exploring that.

In the mean time maybe try a few experiments that work for me when I'm out. I know that if I go above three glasses of white wine...I can go to three bottles and black out. So I will think about where I'm going...is the wine worth drinking or would I be better on prosecco or cider. If I'm drinking wine....I limit myself to three glasses. It is like a discipline game that only I know about. In my experience it is only going to get worse for you. Relationships don't end well when one half drinks more then they should. Life is less complicated when you are in control and don't drink as much. Hope u get what you are looking for.

bmwguy

I'm not judging you at all but you do have a problem. I would be the same as you in many aspects, I intend to go out for just a few quiet ones but end up having loads, staying to closing time, having a few pints beside me at closing time, jumping in a taxi to Dublin city for more beer etc....it could be a lot more than 8 as well. Easily double that. We did 12 pubs one year but myself and another lad then went to loads more pubs and then out in our home town.

At the moment I haven't drank in over 3 weeks just because nothing decent is happening. Next time I go out I could easily drink too much again.
I do have blackout spells sometimes too. But the difference is I have never lost a friend through it. Not one. I go out, have the craic, don't start rows or arguments or even be obnoxious. I have often been paranoid but everyone always says I was grand, didn't insult or piss anyone off. I am mild mannered and I think for most people their drunk selves are same as sober selves. When you change you have an issue.
You have lost 24 friends. How did you manage that?
It's not a dependency you have a problem with, it's your behaviour when drunk.
A drinking buddy of mine (more a friend of a friend really) who admittedly drank a lot more regularly than me had to give it up because of his behaviour. He abused people all night if he was on a foul mood and god help anyone that got in a debate with him. Its hard to say you will just change your behaviour because that's your sober self saying that, not yourself with alcohol on board.

Big Bag of Chips

The fact that you prioritise drink over finances, friendships, relationships and work means you definitely have a problem with alcohol. You might not crave it like some people crave it first thing in the morning, or every day, but once you start you do crave it. And once the craving hits you keep going regardless of the consequences.

That's having a drink problem/dependency on drink.

You posted here for a reason. Something brought you here to question your "attitude to alcohol". Alcoholism is a progressive condition. Nobody wakes up one morning after being a moderate drinker the night before and suddenly becomes a raging alcoholic drinking a bottle of vodka with their cornflakes! It grows over time. And what used to be a 1 night/2 night weekend binge has no become a 4 night binge. You're spending money you can't afford and have lost the respect of a lot of people.

That should be a problem for you. Not everyone has to give up drink forever. You can try limit yourself, control it, not go on a 4 night binge. If you try to control it and find you can't, then you know for a fact you have a problem.

Although you still might deny you have "a problem". The thing with problem drinking, is it becomes a problem for those around you long before it becomes a problem for you. By the time it becomes a problem for you, those around you are either long gone, or worn down.

xabi

You're a functioning alcoholic op, you do have a problem with alcohol.

Porklife

Hi Op,

I can completely relate to you as I'm in a similar position myself. I can hear the justifications creeping into your post as well. I'm another member of the 'what's the point of having one or two, I'd rather have none' brigade. It's not that I want to get blotto every time I drink. It's just that I don't see the point of having two pints on a Wednesday. I'd rather have none. The real reason for that though is because I can't have just two. If I had two, it'd lead to me going home and cracking open a bottle of wine. I'm better off having none cos I don't trust myself after even a sip!

My ex boyfriend used to buy himself two really nice German or Czech beers on a Friday night, pour them into a big beer mug and savour every sip. Then he'd read the newspaper the go to bed. I used to be so jealous of his capability to do that. I'd end up staying up late getting hammered listening to music.

I've found myself making so many pathetic excuse to drink like... the weather is so bad, what else would you do? I had a hard day at work and I deserve to unwind... Red wine will help me sleep sure. The list goes on, none of it is real.

I can't offer you a real solution right now OP as I'm in the same boat but what I will say is, take a long hard look at yourself and the reason you posted here. I don't truly believe in denial. I think on some level we always know what's really going on. I know myself that I'm waaayyyyy too fond of the hooch.

It's both my best pal and my worst enemy. On a Friday night, it's singing my praises and telling me to enjoy myself and on a Sunday night, it has me in it's sweaty paws choking me with fear and anxiety. Some friend!

Admit to yourself what's really going on and question why it's happening. Why are you drinking to excess? Once you figure that out, you're making roads to recovery. Writing here will also help.

fizzypish

Hey OP. Hooch makes me depressed so I stopped. Tried for about a year and finally I drew a line in the sand in my mind where I told myself "Fizzy, you don't get to drink no more". And now I don't drink. I'm not an alcoholic either but if its messing up your life you still need to drop it. The key to quitting is distraction. New hobbies and you'll have to hang out less with drinking buddies. I can sit in a pub around people drinking with no issues... for about 2 hours IF they're not annoying or its not clouded. Then I just leave. Be selfish as ****. Drop the mike, hands in the air, I'm out. Anyone says "Your no crack", **** em. Not worth your time.

Anyway, give quitting on your own a lash. If you find its not working have a chat with someone. AA isn't the only show in town, its just an option if you need it.

Porklife

fizzypish wrote: »

Hey OP. Hooch makes me depressed so I stopped. Tried for about a year and finally I drew a line in the sand in my mind where I told myself "Fizzy, you don't get to drink no more". And now I don't drink. I'm not an alcoholic either but if its messing up your life you still need to drop it. The key to quitting is distraction. New hobbies and you'll have to hang out less with drinking buddies. I can sit in a pub around people drinking with no issues... for about 2 hours IF they're not annoying or its not clouded. Then I just leave. Be selfish as ****. Drop the mike, hands in the air, I'm out. Anyone says "Your no crack", **** em. Not worth your time.

Anyway, give quitting on your own a lash. If you find its not working have a chat with someone. AA isn't the only show in town, its just an option if you need it.

Drop the mike, hands in the air.. great post. You have a really nice style of writing. May I ask, how hard did you find giving up? Sorry to jump the OP but I'm caught in the same loop and would be interested to know how you went about it. Like OP, I can go 5 days before caving in and legging it to the off licence. I don't fall off the wagon, I leap full force. If I'm gonna drink... I'm gonna drink. It's a terrible affliction. The sad thing about alcohol abuse is that to the outside world, you appear to be having a good time but the internal desperation is terrifying. It's very isolating too as it's a battle only you can fight, there's no army behind you backing you up. It's progressive too and will only get worse, there's no two ways about that and yet I can't seem to walk away from it.

Porklife

Porklife wrote: »

I don't fall off the wagon, I leap full force. If I'm gonna drink... I'm gonna drink.

I was the same ... I used to say "I don't fall off the wagon, I jump off, tuck and roll and dive through the saloon window".

And I can relate to the excuses ... if I had a bad day I'd drink to cheer myself up, if I had a good day I'd drink to celebrate that.

It's very hard to give up without help, I went to my GP and a counsellor and, since I stopped, I haven't looked back. I'm a different person and have never been happier and the vast majority of days are good days.

Maybe someone else can tell you how they did it by themselves but I can't I'm afraid.

There's a non-drinkers group here which might be helpful.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1015

fizzypish

I've got a touch of the old depression so my drinking over the final 2 years was to patch that. Over time it stopped helping. The situation became, I feel **** so I'll drink. I feel **** while drinking cos I know it bad for me and I shouldn't. I feel terrible after drinking. There was no relief so it was all negative. That made it easier for me to rationalize to myself that I had to quit so I did. I was skyping weekly with a guy regarding the depression so I wasn't totally doing it on my own but it was 95% me, 5% the other guy being a pair of ears and some helpful advice.
What worked for me:

Stop going to pubs for a few months. If you've got some mates that you only drink with the you don't get to see those guys for a few months. After that grab some 0% beers and hang out for an hour or as long as your comfortable. If your mates keep giving you **** for not drinking then your gonna lose some mates. End of story. (I live in the Netherlands so not drinking isn't a big deal here. Would have been tougher in Ireland)

Hobbies/distractions. First month or so will suck dick. Just feel **** and watch tv. Read if you can. Exercise if you can. Do anything (within reason) that helps. Then find hobbies to replace the time spent drinking. I play chess. How do you find a hobby? No clue. Depends on you.

You probably should talk weekly with someone at least while your trying to quit (Give it a lash on your own if you want but if it all goes south try it). This one sucks. I've had plenty counseling over the years and I still hate that I go to it. You do it because you need to.

My OH was a big help to me. Leverage on someone you trust if you have it. You do need to let them know whats going on in your head.

I mentioned the line in the sand. You need to make it clear to yourself. I don't drink. So you crack, you fell off the wagon. You still don't drink anymore, you just ****ed up. Someone asks you do you drink. "No man, trying to quit". Say it out loud and it will solidify in your mind.

Exercise. Haven't drank since Christmas and I'm still trying to achieve this one. I know it good for you though.

Porklife

fizzypish wrote: »

I've got a touch of the old depression so my drinking over the final 2 years was to patch that. Over time it stopped helping. The situation became, I feel **** so I'll drink. I feel **** while drinking cos I know it bad for me and I shouldn't. I feel terrible after drinking. There was no relief so it was all negative. That made it easier for me to rationalize to myself that I had to quit so I did. I was skyping weekly with a guy regarding the depression so I wasn't totally doing it on my own but it was 95% me, 5% the other guy being a pair of ears and some helpful advice.
What worked for me:

Stop going to pubs for a few months. If you've got some mates that you only drink with the you don't get to see those guys for a few months. After that grab some 0% beers and hang out for an hour or as long as your comfortable. If your mates keep giving you **** for not drinking then your gonna lose some mates. End of story. (I live in the Netherlands so not drinking isn't a big deal here. Would have been tougher in Ireland)

Hobbies/distractions. First month or so will suck dick. Just feel **** and watch tv. Read if you can. Exercise if you can. Do anything (within reason) that helps. Then find hobbies to replace the time spent drinking. I play chess. How do you find a hobby? No clue. Depends on you.

You probably should talk weekly with someone at least while your trying to quit (Give it a lash on your own if you want but if it all goes south try it). This one sucks. I've had plenty counseling over the years and I still hate that I go to it. You do it because you need to.

My OH was a big help to me. Leverage on someone you trust if you have it. You do need to let them know whats going on in your head.

I mentioned the line in the sand. You need to make it clear to yourself. I don't drink. So you crack, you fell off the wagon. You still don't drink anymore, you just ****ed up. Someone asks you do you drink. "No man, trying to quit". Say it out loud and it will solidify in your mind.

Exercise. Haven't drank since Christmas and I'm still trying to achieve this one. I know it good for you though.

Thank you for being so open and honest, it's not easy to strip yourself bare like that and I appreciate it. Again, sorry to hijack the Op's thread but hopefully this is helpful for them too.

I've been to an addiction councellor before but it didn't really help me. I find it frustrating when I hear that admitting you have a problem is half the battle. I'm admitting it but I'm still screwed!! I have lots of hobbies already too but in the back of my mind, I'm always thinking man, this would be so much better with a nice cold beer. I go running on my lunchbreaks, I do dance classes, I read alot but there's always a devil on my shoulder saying open that rioja, you've had a hard day, you only live once... you deserve it. It's such a trap.
I can't even begin to tell you some of the f*cked up situations I've found myself in on account of booze. I mean some really crazy dangerous situations. I've often thought Jesus Christ, this has to be rock bottom but then minutes later think, oh f*ck it, I'm having a beer.
I have a good job and I'm fit and healthy (or so one would think) but this is slowly destroying me. It's a mental struggle on a daily basis. It's such a powerful liquid. Sad fact is, right now as I type this, all I'm thinking of is a pint of Guinness. Why do I like something so much that's killing me?? It's like sleeping with the enemy.

zoobizoo

Porklife wrote: »

Sad fact is, right now as I type this, all I'm thinking of is a pint of Guinness.

Are you after the taste or the buzz?

Porklife

I guess it's a mixture of both. I genuinely like the taste of Guinness and I think some red wines are beautiful but I don't know if that's my mind tricking me. If someone removed the alcohol content from Guinness, would I really still find it delicious? I doubt it..

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Porklife

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Luckily I don't smoke but I hear ya. I actually gave up a 20 a day habit 5 years ago and have never looked back. That fact alone proves I have will power. I am the most addictive person I know though and I realise that sounds like a cop out. Oohh I have an addictive personality... it is true though. I don't do anything by halves. If I like a band, I buy every album and will travel the globe to see them. If I open a packet of biscuits, I'm eating every last crumb. If I decide to get fit, I'm hitting the gym at lunch time and after work. It's a nightmare.

zoobizoo

Porklife wrote: »

I guess it's a mixture of both. I genuinely like the taste of Guinness and I think some red wines are beautiful but I don't know if that's my mind tricking me. If someone removed the alcohol content from Guinness, would I really still find it delicious? I doubt it..

I understand.

There are some really good NA beers out there... Even the craft brewers are doing them.

You might find that getting the taste of beer, plus the feel of a cold bottle / pint glass, and getting the smell and the sensation of drinking it could trick your brain?

Alcoholism is complicated and I'm not trying to be facetious.

Porklife

zoobizoo wrote: »

I understand.

There are some really good NA beers out there... Even the craft brewers are doing them.

You might find that getting the taste of beer, plus the feel of a cold bottle / pint glass, and getting the smell and the sensation of drinking it could trick your brain?

Alcoholism is complicated and I'm not trying to be facetious.

Thanks for the tip, it's worth a shot I guess. I didn't think you were being in any way facetious

Do you think it's genetic? I'm not sure although all evidence would suggest it is, given that both my parents were alcoholics. I'm not convinced it's a disease either, an illness sure but not a disease in the general sense of the word. It's a pain in the ass is what it is!!! It dominates everything!!

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zoobizoo

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When I'd take a couple of months off yes, people were offended that I wasn't drinking.

Can you imagine going to a restaurant and friends getting annoyed that you weren't eating what they were eating, or as much as they were eating at the speed that they were eating?

What I did notice was that when I was out and not drinking, I had such control over my night... I could drive in, chat to people, when people started getting a bit lairy and loud and boring, I could leave and drive home. I could also steer the conversations in a way that I wanted them to go - and found myself being in control of my wit more. (I'm not a control freak btw, it was just interesting to me).

Porklife

Fair play to ya, it aint easy, that's for sure.

Anybody who calls you dry for not drinking is a muppet. You're right too, it's because it highlights how much they're drinking and they don't like that.

I had a friend who got very sick recently, he died as it happens but that's a different story, he used to drink with the best of us but when he got sick he couldn't drink anymore. It really highlighted how much we all drink and it actually started to upset him. He could see it so clearly all of a sudden. He said it to me before he died.. please stop drinking so much. It's scary to watch all of you. That makes me so sad. Didn't stop me though.

skallywag

If you continue to drink in the same manner despite there being clear signs that the drinking is directly causing very real issues, then you are walking down the road to having a very serious problem. E.g. to take just one example from the OP's post, it's mentioned that work deadlines were missed due to conscious decisions to go out. OK, it could happen once, you end up feeling bad about it, and you don't go out again when you have a deadline. But if you find yourself letting it happen again and again, then you have a serious issue. You are consciously aware that it is continuously causing a problem but you are still powerless to stop it.

Porklife

Powerless being the operative word there.
I've done way worse then miss deadlines and still not been able to stop.
I had one very scary experience last summer in Chicago that I honestly can't even type or say out loud it's so bad. The only person I ever told was my councellor. Ugh. Stupid bloody alcohol.

Chancer3001

Jaysus. Reading porklife is like reading my own posts.

We're both the same people!

Also addicted to things. Open the ice cream it's all gone.

Doing double sessions in the gym midweek. Then drinking and drugs for 3 days straight at the weekend.

Vicious cycle .

I'm very tempted to go cold turkey from August.

Even that annoys me. Not cold turkey now cos sure I have 2 big weekends and I can't let the lads down.

I'm such good Craic on nights out. Everyone wants me out and wants me having the Craic.

But it's not what I a really want.

skallywag

Agreed Porklife. Irish people tend to label a person an Alcoholic based purely on the amount of drink consumed. There are lots of folk who drink way too much but who do not show alcoholic tendency, mind you the health risks are still there of course. Some can do this and still stay in control, but for others the drink just takes over completely. It can be hard for someone who has never experienced this first hand to fully appreciate how controlling alcohol can be for some people.

Porklife

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Jaysus. Reading porklife is like reading my own posts.

We're both the same people!

Also addicted to things. Open the ice cream it's all gone.

Doing double sessions in the gym midweek. Then drinking and drugs for 3 days straight at the weekend.

Vicious cycle .

I'm very tempted to go cold turkey from August.

Even that annoys me. Not cold turkey now cos sure I have 2 big weekends and I can't let the lads down.

I'm such good Craic on nights out. Everyone wants me out and wants me having the Craic.

But it's not what I a really want.

I'm the same... great fun, party girl etc but it's not what or who I want. I don't even know how this happened to me. I used to be quite reserved and knew my limits but now it's like... well, life is short and I could die at any given moment so I might aswell make the most of it. It's fatalistic thinking. Also, this isn't making the most of it. Being hungover, drunk or about to get drunk is no way to live.

Frankie Boyle said something once that really stuck with me. He gave up the hooch and said he realised how time consuming alcohol is. He realised he spent all of his time either getting drunk, thinking about getting drunk or recovering from being drunk. So true!! Bet he was great craic though :rolleyes:

Chancer3001

That's my biggest crutch too.

Life is too short. Life is ****ing amazing and you have to always be up for every experience ever. Night out? I'm the first one there. Can't miss a second. Fomo

But yeah if you take a step back. For every minute of a great experience there's 500 wasted either blackout drunk or hungover to pieces.

There's also another 5000 of regret from stupid actions from drinking.

So yeah. When you look at it objectively it's obviously no contest

But it really isn't as simple as that.

Porklife

Chancer3001 wrote: »

That's my biggest crutch too.

Life is too short. Life is ****ing amazing and you have to always be up for every experience ever. Night out? I'm the first one there. Can't miss a second. Fomo

But yeah if you take a step back. For every minute of a great experience there's 500 wasted either blackout drunk or hungover to pieces.

There's also another 5000 of regret from stupid actions from drinking.

So yeah. When you look at it objectively it's obviously no contest

But it really isn't as simple as that.

People talk about rock bottom and I'm curious what mine is. I've wound up in some ridiculous situations that to any normal person would be considered absolute rock bottom but to me it's like.. meh, could be worse.
This isn't a game though, it's a battle and alcohol is kicking my ass. It's winning, in fact it's already won. I have no power over it and the worst part is I succumb to it even when I don't want to. The rare time I don't actually feel like drinking, I still do for some bizarre reason. It's like I literally can't stop myself.
I wonder if the fall will be when it starts to affect my appearance or health cos as of yet it hasn't really. Hangovers can be hell but I just have a few beers to take the edge of them, tricks of the trade. It's just sad really. If drinking was a profession, I'd be CEO.

Foweva Awone

Porklife wrote: »

People talk about rock bottom and I'm curious what mine is. I've wound up in some ridiculous situations that to any normal person would be considered absolute rock bottom but to me it's like.. meh, could be worse.

You've reached rock bottom when you decide to stop digging.

Porklife

Foweva Awone wrote: »

You've reached rock bottom when you decide to stop digging.

Someone should take my spade away! :mad:

Bambi985

OP I admire your open-minded attitude towards your issue and wish you the best with getting sober. I'd strongly recommend seeking the support of an addiction counsellor as I think a large part of it is how you've been conditioned to socialise and to think about alcohol and even yourself and those are very tall mountains to climb on your own.

Have you spoken to your partner about it at all? I'd say her/his view on the matter could be very telling. An ex of mine was just like you, no cravings and believed 100% he could not touch the stuff for weeks on end, but once he'd cracked the lid on something that was it, game over. No control, non-stop drinking all night long, disappearing off the radar and then day-long hangovers where he'd be full of remorse and come up with every excuse under the sun.

He'd vow to give it up for a month and a few days in would come home from work with booze on his breath, some lad's leaving party, the boss took us out I couldn't say no, the opening of an envelope and he was there knocking back pints and buying shots for everyone in town despite not having the funds for it. Same thing if we went to his folks' house and the wine is out, all resolve out the window and it would ruin the day for me watching him guzzling back glasses at break-neck speed and then going into full-blown denial about it later. "I had 2 glasses the same as you!" "Sure you're one to talk, what about your prosecco night at A's last Christmas where you passed out on the couch" etc. I get tipsy after about a half bottle of wine once or twice a year, there really never was a comparison.

I was dating an alcoholic and in the end it was his denial about the entire situation and refusal to do anything about it that ended the relationship. I was a nervous wreck worrying about where he was going to find an opportunity to start boozing on any given day, any night out or work drinks he had would end in an argument when he'd rock up in a sorry state at 5am and flat-out lie about what he'd drank and where he'd been, checking his breath when he came home from work, rummaging through bins to prove myself right because I could never trust what he told me etc etc. All the while I was busy saving every penny I had so we could buy a house and some day get married (lol).

Just a view from the other side of the fence. Your behaviour isn't just destroying your own life, it has very big and very serious repercussions for the people you're closest to as well. It broke my heart to watch my OH and stop trusting a single word out of his mouth, to think about any kind of future with a man who was a slave to alcohol and prioritised that over any future with me.

NinetyTwoTeam

People have a certain image in their head of what an alcoholic is, and if they aren't as bad as it, you think you're not one.

But the thing is, you just haven't got that bad YET.

I had very similar symptoms to you OP. And so many, many others in the AA group I started attending once I threw in the towel. If you read the big book of AA, you will see that what you have described is a textbook case of alcoholism. But having others diagnose you is no use, you have to look at these options:

You can keep getting in the ring with alcohol and getting beat worse every time, until some calamity or disaster occurs, or you can admit you're powerless over it NOW and start making better choices before the disaster.

If drinking has cost you to lose friends, go broke, etc, you probably already feel guilty about your drinking, and probably don't even enjoy it as much as you think any more. It's not easy but waking up without the hell of a hangover, the fear, the empty pockets, is so worth it.

Big Bag of Chips

That's a brilliant post by Bambi, and you really should heed it, OP. It is how every partner of every alcoholic/heavy drinker feels all the time. You've stated you've already lost a lot of friends. It's unclear whether you've lost relationships because of it too. But even if your partner is with you and standing by you, life is not good for them. I don't know will that make any difference to you. I don't know if the problems your drinking is causing to others will be enough to make you stop/cut down.

I know it wasn't enough to stop my husband. It wasn't enough to stop his brother. My husband almost lost his family, and around that time he drank even heavier because he was losing his family. His brother has lost his family and is just as bad now as he was before they left. His excuse now is he has nobody. I'm not sure what his excuse was before that. (By the way, my husband didn't stop in order to save his family, he stopped because of the inevitable "disaster" that happened as mentioned by NinetyTwo. Although his brother has had a number of disasters, or what "normal" people would consider disasters and it's not stopping him).

It's not something I understand, although I 100% understand the partners perspective! I'm not a big drinker, so I could easily go out and have 1 drink or 2 or maybe 3 at a push and that would be my limit. I could easily have one and then switch to minerals. Drink doesn't bother me. Like Bambi I could fall asleep after a glass of wine! So if you want to call that "passed out after drink" I suppose it is! But if you find that it's all or nothing, then you need to see if drink suits you. If you can't go out and have 3, maybe 4 drinks and be happy to leave it at that then you have a problem. It mightn't be a problem if your nights out were a rarity. If you only went out and drank like that every few months. Doing it every weekend, or even every second weekend is too much. Especially when you are losing friends, affecting your work and getting in to debt because of it.

But again, you will only cut back if you want to. You haven't done it for others yet, and you're not really likely to at this stage.

LegacyUser

Thanks for all the responses. I've come back to this thread frequently over the past week, mulling over the posts and reflecting on my own situation.

The question of relationships, and how one's alcoholism impacts friends and family, is a recent theme. In terms of my relationship, yes, she has - on numerous occasions - told me, often in very stern and robust language, that I drink to excess. That being said, she has stayed with me throughout this period, frequently drinking with me even knowing how bad I can become. I do feel bad for her, though, I must be honest.

I said I'd honestly report my progress and that is what I'll do.

Over the past week, I've drank on Sunday and Monday (of last week), but that much you knew from my OP. I stayed abstinent for Tuesday and Wednesday but when out on Thursday and Friday and had 6 cans of beer at home last night. Though that sounds like a lot, and I guess it is, it's considerably less than last week. Today I've had nothing. I hope that, during this week, I can limit my alcohol consumption further, perhaps to just one day (and not to excess). I'll let you know if I've achieved this; I certainly hope I can.

Thanks again for your comments. I appreciate them and find them encouraging.

fizzypish

drinking_away wrote: »

I'll let you know if I've achieved this; I certainly hope I can.

Writing **** down can be hugely helpful (no idea why). If after a couple of weeks your finding your progress limited maybe look for a bit of help. Good luck!

Big Bag of Chips

You see you're already justifying your drinking by stating your gf sometimes drinks with you. Does she drink as much? Does her drinking cause as many problems as yours has? As Bambi said the problem drinker will often deflect from their own drinking by pointing out that others are doing it too. If your gf didn't drink with you (occasionally) what would be her option? Sit at home while you go out? Just because you have a problem controlling yours doesn't mean she's wrong if she drinks. My husband tried to use that argument with me when I told him that I finally admitted to my brother how bad things had gotten. I rarely go out. I rarely drink. But one night, my brother, noticing that something was wrong asked me to go out with him and his partner. We met in a pub and I had 2 glasses of wine. His partner didn't drink at all as she was pregnant and my brother, I'd say maybe had 3 pints.

I admitted to them how bad things were after getting with my husband. They'd never suspected. They knew he liked a few drinks, but never realised it was as bad as it was. When I told my husband that I had told my brother, the only thing he said about it was - So I was at home that night (no mention that he had been in the pub earlier that day, and was at home drinking - I had to drop the children to my mother because I wouldn't leave them with him) But anyway, his argument was "So I was at home that night, and the 3 of you were sitting in a pub talking about ME being an alcoholic".

It was a complete deflection of the real issue. And to be honest, I knew there was no point in continuing the discussion with him. I was trying to get him to see that I wasn't going to keep lying to people, and minimising his drinking. That my life was being seriously affected and I was finished with putting on a brave face and pretending that everything was always ok. But he didn't want to see that. He didn't want to hear that. Because listening to that and taking my point would have had to mean that he had a problem.. and in his eyes, he didn't have a problem with his drinking. I did. And that was my problem, not his! (and I was the one in the pub that night, not him)

Just because your partner has stuck with you through it all doesn't mean she's happy. Honestly, I think a huge part of why I stuck it for so long was partly a sense of duty to him, and partly because I didn't want the embarrassment of admitting it to everyone else. I certainly wan't happy! My brother is still the only person I have ever confided in from my immediate family.

My husband went from drinking most days to drinking everyday. He went from drinking a few days in the pub and the other days at home to drinking every day in the pub and continuing it when he got home. As mentioned, it's a progressive thing. And the longer it goes on the more it progresses. Some people aren't that bothered and can take it or leave it. These people might get pissed and fall over on rare occasions. It doesn't mean they have a problem! Some people love it but know their limits and can control it. They might get pissed more often, but their drinking isn't a problem. Some people can't, or have no interest in controlling it and don't care about the consequences of their drinking, relationships, friendships, work, money - their drinking is a problem. Even if it's not every day. Even if it's not every week. If drinking is having a substantial negative affect on your life, yet you continue to do it, you have a problem.

Edit: I'd like to point out, my husband's drinking never caused problems for those around him (other than me!) He never got mouthy or aggressive. He was never abusive. He never came home falling all over the place and fighting. He never got sick or pissed himself. He never missed a day in work. He was great criac with all his drinking buddies. But that doesn't mean that his drinking didn't cause problems for those closest to him. You don't have to be asleep on the street hugging a cheap bottle of wine before you have a drink problem.

Bambi985

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

You don't have to be asleep on the street hugging a cheap bottle of wine before you have a drink problem.

I completely agree, and I'll add that we have a skewed attitude towards booze in Ireland that allows people with real problems with alcohol to hide in plain sight behind the hoards of people who are also abusing it in the name of "having the craic" "sure yer man was blotto last night it was gas" etc etc.

My ex used to do that all the time, came from a family of big drinkers, it was just the way of things for him and he'd use anyone as ammunition when I brought up the fact that he had a problem. "Sure we were all hammered...sure Dad had twice what I had" etc etc

Be stronger than that and look your addiction in the eye, don't minimise it because YOU are the one that stands to lose the most in it all. You wouldn't be in this forum coming back to this thread again and again if it wasn't a problem. Your friends might think you're great craic and your girlfriend might seem fine and "sure she has a few as well" etc but at the end of the day your loss of control over the booze has already had some awful real-life consequences for you, you've already lost more than a handful of friends, you're spending money you don't have, you're not able to do your job properly, you're blanking out regularly for gods sake.

And by the way I highly doubt your girlfriend is fine and dandy about it all. You've described her just as my ex would've described me - "sure she has a few herself, she had half that bottle of wine in my parent's house, she drank as much if not more of that gin..." - I'm one of those people that has a general disinterest in alcohol, I'll have one or two but never much more than that as the physical effects aren't worth it to me, yet my ex would hide behind the fact that I was there too, I had a gin and tonic, and he'd exaggerate my intake to minimise his own problems. That was the final straw for me and it was the beginning of the end.