New ram for this year.

Lambman

Anybody changing the rams this year? What are you selling? why are you selling? What are you buying till replace it ram same breed or try a new breed? I've till get rid off 2 texels 1 is old the other I'm just not happy with! Still gonna keep my charrlois for the hoggets and a few old timers that I don't want till have a hard lambing... Hampshire down seems till keep popping up as great rams but I just don't like the look a them or there lambs off crossbred ewes... but farming is a business not a beauty contest so I might be tempted till buy 1.... don't like keeping a suffolk ram I like keeping the suffolk in the ewes side... tried beltex ram and yea no bother lambing and no bother in the field but not long enough in my opinion so factoried all lambs ewes and all killed out pretty well but would have the charrlois well ahead a them... neighbour off mine put me off vendeens as he kept replacements off his ram and had alot of bother with prolapses in them or maybe thst was just a bad ram?

Green farmer

probably going to try a Hampshire here, but seriously tempted to get a easycare ram to run with him. the loss making cost of shearing, along with the price of Clik is leaving me questioning things. Sell direct to factory here, so don't really care what they look like.

stantheman1979

I'll be selling all 3 texals and getting either another Hampshire or a polled Dorset. I'll run them with the 2yr olds, the lesser quality ewes and any old girls on their last year. Like u said it's not a beauty contest and u can't beat the Hampshire/Dorset to put some length into lambs. Don't ever keep replacements from a Charolais or a vendeen!! They're both no good to milk

orm0nd

replacing 2 vetern hampshires hopefully with 2 more, though my breeder has retired

will also be getting either a rouge or a suffolk (or maybe both. )

a few suffolk breeders are supplying grass fed rams and have moved to a more NZ type sheep so will be looking for same

Lambman

You'd still have till clik easy farmer I don't think the easy care breed is immune till flystrike! Shearing usually pays for itself I know not this year but usually so I didn't put it down as an expense? I also sell direct till factory here so I know what ur saying but I just ment the look a them in the field not selling for replacements.... Stantheman I know charrlois have a bad name for milk but have a dozen or so halfbreds here and nearly guaranteed doubles on them every year and the can raise them no bother and some are charrlois x suffolk and same thing seem till have enough milk..... does anyone know off any good Hampshire down breeders? Would u expect till pay as much 4 a good HD ram as say a good charrlois or texel?

Green farmer

stantheman1979 wrote: »

I'll getting either another Hampshire or a polled Dorset. I'll run them with the Hampshire/Dorset to put some length into lambs. quote]





What's the story with the polled Dorset ? Never seen one in the flesh or know anyone who has one. Also seen a few pics of rouges on DD. Some appear to be very lengthy. I have a Charley here as well, but find their lambs flighty to work with, so puts me off abit.

Username John

Lambman wrote: »

You'd still have till clik easy farmer I don't think the easy care breed is immune till flystrike! Shearing usually pays for itself I know not this year but usually so I didn't put it down as an expense? I also sell direct till factory here so I know what ur saying but I just ment the look a them in the field not selling for replacements.... Stantheman I know charrlois have a bad name for milk but have a dozen or so halfbreds here and nearly guaranteed doubles on them every year and the can raise them no bother and some are charrlois x suffolk and same thing seem till have enough milk..... does anyone know off any good Hampshire down breeders? Would u expect till pay as much 4 a good HD ram as say a good charrlois or texel?

If your ewes are very Suffolk-y, would a Hampshire not be as good for you, i would have said the Hampshire is a bit close to the Suffolk... ?

Not sure if you keep your replacements? So are you looking for a maternal ram?

Lambman

Don't usually keep replacements but might have till keep some till hoggets anyway 4 this €10 a head ewe thing.... looks like there'll be a few in the market for Hampshire's thus year!

Bleating Lamb

Probably be replacing an aged Suffolk ram with another Suffolk....like to buy a Suffolk ram with a small forehead and not mad strong bone for ease of lambing but the Suffolk breeders in general seem to have gone to big square heads and thick boned legs which doesn't suit part time farmers at lambing time.

Are the NZ Suffolks easier lambed?

Inchilad

Lambman wrote:

You'd still have till clik easy farmer I don't think the easy care breed is immune till flystrike! Shearing usually pays for itself I know not this year but usually so I didn't put it down as an expense? I also sell direct till factory here so I know what ur saying but I just ment the look a them in the field not selling for replacements.... Stantheman I know charrlois have a bad name for milk but have a dozen or so halfbreds here and nearly guaranteed doubles on them every year and the can raise them no bother and some are charrlois x suffolk and same thing seem till have enough milk..... does anyone know off any good Hampshire down breeders? Would u expect till pay as much 4 a good HD ram as say a good texel
Premier show and sale of hampshire downs in tallow mart next tuesday 25th.last year prices for really good ram lamb were between 4 to 600 euro.

davidk1394

Not selling anything but our beltex and 1 of the charollais rams died. So going to buy another beltex, 2 charollais and 2 or 3 easy care rams. Happy with how the easy cares are going. We didn't click our easy cares and they didn't get any maggot's

sako 85

I Purchased a new Suffolk ram lamb at the National Championships earlier this month, going to run our small few pedigree ewes and some Cheviot ewes. Old ram died. I attached a few photos of him.

Hoping to buy a new Cheviot Hogget Ram at Blessington in October and also a charollais Ram in Tullow in September.

I'm selling 6 PB Cheviot Hoggets that I bred myself, if anyone is interest feel free to PM me:)

Ard_MC

A perth i bought last year is goin to get hung up. Not happy with him at all.

Buyin a mayo in September or October and maybe a lanark lamb if i can get a right 1.

Farmer_3650

I'm also tempted to buy Hampshire Ram to replace a Suffolk. Them Hanpshires are Ugly looking yokes but 95% of our lambs go to the Factory so that doesn't bother me too much.
Does anyone know of any Breeders or Sales coming up in the west?

Lambman

If I remember right wasn't there talk of clun forest rams last year they make interesting reading on wikipedia anyhow haha.... wonder what kinda mules they'd throw compared till the blue faces Leicster? Any one any dealings with them?

charolais0153

Bought a charrillais and a texel last year so no need for one this year. . thinking about trying a venndeen or Hampshire down instead of a charrollais in a couple of years time

sheepfarmer92

Getting rid of ten old rams mostly texels and two suffolks and a belclare replacing with easycares

Lambman

charolais0153 wrote: »

Bought a charrillais and a texel last year so no need for one this year. . thinking about trying a venndeen or Hampshire down instead of a charrollais in a couple of years time

Does many farmers keep vendeens it's a breed know nothing about but a neighbour kept 1 for 2 years and kept ewe lambs outta him and had alot off bother with prolapses with them... said they were no easier till finish than texels although they were a bit longer hence keeping ewe lambs from him.

Green farmer

Lambman wrote: »

Does many farmers keep vendeens it's a breed know nothing about but a neighbour kept 1 for 2 years and kept ewe lambs outta him and had alot off bother with prolapses with them... said they were no easier till finish than texels although they were a bit longer hence keeping ewe lambs from him.

Their a terminal breed, solely intended to produce lambs for the butchers block. Not really aimed at breeding replacements from.

Lambman

Green farmer wrote: »

Lambman wrote: »

Does many farmers keep vendeens it's a breed know nothing about but a neighbour kept 1 for 2 years and kept ewe lambs outta him and had alot off bother with prolapses with them... said they were no easier till finish than texels although they were a bit longer hence keeping ewe lambs from him.

Their a terminal breed, solely intended to produce lambs for the butchers block. Not really aimed at breeding replacements from.

What's there selling point green farmer? Are they prolific easy lambed easy finished??

Lambman

Green farmer wrote: »

Lambman wrote: »

Does many farmers keep vendeens it's a breed know nothing about but a neighbour kept 1 for 2 years and kept ewe lambs outta him and had alot off bother with prolapses with them... said they were no easier till finish than texels although they were a bit longer hence keeping ewe lambs from him.

Their a terminal breed, solely intended to produce lambs for the butchers block. Not really aimed at breeding replacements from.

What's there selling point green farmer? Are they prolific easy lambed easy finished??

charolais0153

Lambman wrote: »

What's there selling point green farmer? Are they prolific easy lambed easy finished??

Prolifacy has nothing to do with the sire. The ewe is responsible for how many lambs she has so long as ram is fertile. They are easy lambed ,good growth rates and easy finished apparently. Rangler had them once

Lambman

I'd disagree with the prolificacy all being down till the ewe I put a charrlois with 20 2nd lambers and texel with other 20 the 40 were all bought from the same farmer outta the same ram and my charrlois scanned 2.2 texel 1.7

charolais0153

Lambman wrote: »

I'd disagree with the prolificacy all being down till the ewe I put a charrlois with 20 2nd lambers and texel with other 20 the 40 were all bought from the same farmer outta the same ram and my charrlois scanned 2.2 texel 1.7

Could they have been treated differently, one got minerals the others didn't , they got less grass than another group, dog frightened them. Was there more empties in one group than the other, what was the difference like without empties included

orm0nd

charolais0153 wrote: »

Prolifacy has nothing to do with the sire. The ewe is responsible for how many lambs she has so long as ram is fertile. They are easy lambed ,good growth rates and easy finished apparently. Rangler had them once

I had 2 of rangler's rams here. for a good few years.

was very pleased, find it very hard to source a vendeen now, some very poor stock being presented for sale, & breeders are far and few apart,.... too time consuming

Green farmer

Lambman wrote: »

What's there selling point green farmer? Are they prolific easy lambed easy finished??

Never had one, but I suppose they produce easy fattening lambs. rangler used to breed them alright.

Lambman

charolais0153 wrote: »

Lambman wrote: »

I'd disagree with the prolificacy all being down till the ewe I put a charrlois with 20 2nd lambers and texel with other 20 the 40 were all bought from the same farmer outta the same ram and my charrlois scanned 2.2 texel 1.7

Could they have been treated differently, one got minerals the others didn't , they got less grass than another group, dog frightened them. Was there more empties in one group than the other, what was the difference like without empties included

Nope they weren't split till day they went for ram and just closed off first 20 that ran into the pen no special selecting and both groups were back together after 6 weeks.... no ewes were barren in either lot.

charolais0153

Lambman wrote: »

Nope they weren't split till day they went for ram and just closed off first 20 that ran into the pen no special selecting and both groups were back together after 6 weeks.... no ewes were barren in either lot.

Were grass supplies different for those 6 weeks

charolais0153

orm0nd wrote: »

I had 2 of rangler's rams here. for a good few years.

was very pleased, find it very hard to source a vendeen now, some very poor stock being presented for sale, & breeders are far and few apart,.... too time consuming

Was looking at journal and the reserve champion didn't catch my eye, the most expensive ram lamb was a lovely sheep

rangler1

charolais0153 wrote: »

Was looking at journal and the reserve champion didn't catch my eye, the most expensive ram lamb was a lovely sheep[/QUOTE]

Bred out of one of our ewes that he bought at our clearance in 2015, he had her two lambs at the sale, one made 910 and the other 720....nice to see them doing well

ganmo

Have 2 old guys to get rid of, one cheviot that was old when we got him and a Suffolk. Only need to get one chev to replace them though

rangler1

Vendeen are not a maternal breed, they are very prolific and will have lots of lambs, but unless they're crossed with a milky breed you'd be better using something else.

Just after getting the journal, the picture of the Champion on the back page of the pedigree section, his grandsire on both sides was our Jasper....They say if it works it's called line breeding and if it doesn't work it's called inbreeding.....;)
Nice lamb too....he made 860 on the day

Bleating Lamb

charolais0153 wrote: »

Prolifacy has nothing to do with the sire. The ewe is responsible for how many lambs she has so long as ram is fertile. They are easy lambed ,good growth rates and easy finished apparently. Rangler had them once

Wouldn't agree with that at all,way genetics and reproduction works of course the rams background will impact on number of lambs produced,whenever sourcing a ram if I know the breeders background and that they are genuine I try and buy a ram that was a twin as you have a greater chance then of them producing twins than a ram that was a single.Main factor at end of day though is ewes background,flushing before going to ram and initial few months of pregnancy feed wise/grass wise.

rangler1

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Wouldn't agree with that at all,way genetics and reproduction works of course the rams background will impact on number of lambs produced,whenever sourcing a ram if I know the breeders background and that they are genuine I try and buy a ram that was a twin as you have a greater chance then of them producing twins than a ram that was a single.Main factor at end of day though is ewes background,flushing before going to ram and initial few months of pregnancy feed wise/grass wise.

Anytime we've taken semen from rams for AIing we've got between 20 and 100 services from each jump, so discussing whether a ram gives 1, 2, or 3 lambs to each ewe sounds pretty futile when there could be 200 lambs in each ejaculation.
Litter size is determined by the ewes genetics and condition

ganmo

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Wouldn't agree with that at all,way genetics and reproduction works of course the rams background will impact on number of lambs produced,whenever sourcing a ram if I know the breeders background and that they are genuine I try and buy a ram that was a twin as you have a greater chance then of them producing twins than a ram that was a single.Main factor at end of day though is ewes background,flushing before going to ram and initial few months of pregnancy feed wise/grass wise.

A twin ram to a ewe lamb will give ya the best chance of more multiples

stantheman1979

Is that just you're own theory or is there proof like a trial or something.

DJ98

I thought that the ram looks after the quality while the ewe looks after the quantity, for example a scotch ewe with a belclare ram will usually have one lamb due to the nature of the breed whereas the cross from the two could have 2 or 3 lambs. As in its not the belclare ram that is prolific its the ewe bred from it.

stantheman1979

You're on the ball. That's what I thought too.

ganmo

stantheman1979 wrote: »

Is that just you're own theory or is there proof like a trial or something.

It's a calculated theory.

Twins are more likely to give ya twins...but there's 2 ways to get twins.

1. Double ovulation - both sides produce an egg. 25% chance to produce same sex twins

2. Split egg - 100% chance of same sex.

The double ovulation is a much better road to twins imo

stantheman1979

It's the ewe that is ovulating so surely the ram has nothing to do with that. What do u mean by both sides produce an egg.

DJ98

stantheman1979 wrote: »

It's the ewe that is ovulating so surely the ram has nothing to do with that. What do u mean by both sides produce an egg.

Each ovary produces an egg is my understanding of that

ganmo

stantheman1979 wrote: »

It's the ewe that is ovulating so surely the ram has nothing to do with that. What do u mean by both sides produce an egg.

I mean for the next generation, picking the ewe lamb or ram lamb of a ewe ram pair will give ya the best chance to improve the twinning rate.
The ewe lamb will give you the benefit of the genes that generation but the ram will have to pass it onto the next generation for you to get the benifit

stantheman1979

Ok appreciate that. So you've a better chance of twins in keeping a mixed lamb twin rather than in a same sex lamb. I.e. It's better to keep a lamb thats from a ram/ ewe mix than a same sex pair. Interesting

ganmo

stantheman1979 wrote: »

Ok appreciate that. So you've a better chance of twins in keeping a mixed lamb twin rather than in a same sex lamb. I.e. It's better to keep a lamb thats from a ram/ ewe mix than a same sex pair. Interesting

yup thats it

razor8

ganmo wrote: »

I mean for the next generation, picking the ewe lamb or ram lamb of a ewe ram pair will give ya the best chance to improve the twinning rate.
The ewe lamb will give you the benefit of the genes that generation but the ram will have to pass it onto the next generation for you to get the benifit

where have ya read that?

i just looked through ewe lambs last year (35) and no real noticeable difference

Capture.JPG

ganmo

razor8 wrote: »

where have ya read that?

i just looked through ewe lambs last year (35) and no real noticeable difference

Capture.JPG

can ya explain that table please

i've never read it anywhere, but it makes sense to be.

Lambman

So can someone tell me how does a horned ewe suddenly become more prolific when crossed with a blue Leicester.?

ganmo

Lambman wrote: »

So can someone tell me how does a horned ewe suddenly become more prolific when crossed with a blue Leicester.?

She gets fed better?
That or hybrid vigor

Lambman

ganmo wrote: »

Lambman wrote: »

So can someone tell me how does a horned ewe suddenly become more prolific when crossed with a blue Leicester.?

She gets fed better?
That or hybrid vigor

Wouldn't hybrid vigour not work crossing different lowland breeds as well like me using a charrlois on a predominantly Suffolk x ewe flock?

J.O. Farmer

ganmo wrote: »

It's a calculated theory.

Twins are more likely to give ya twins...but there's 2 ways to get twins.

1. Double ovulation - both sides produce an egg. 25% chance to produce same sex twins

I think it's 50% chance of same sex. It's 25% for male or female.
1 ram 1 ram
1 ram 1 ewe
1 ewe 1 ram
1 ewe 1 ewe

However I presume you mean that there's a better chance of the offspring producing twins. Both scenarios above would rely on the ewe.

ganmo

Lambman wrote: »

Wouldn't hybrid vigour not work crossing different lowland breeds as well like me using a charrlois on a predominantly Suffolk x ewe flock?

Yes
But the more different the breeds are the bigger the jump will be.