New ram for this year.

J.O. Farmer

Lambman wrote: »

Wouldn't hybrid vigour not work crossing different lowland breeds as well like me using a charrlois on a predominantly Suffolk x ewe flock?

Yeah I think it more applies to growth rate and the like.

The more twins do you mean the mule compared to the horny.
The blue Leicester is more prolific naturally so that gets passed on to his daughters.

The horny ewe is probably flushed better and kept on better ground when crossed with the blue Leicester to produce the mule. They also tend to be the more mature ewes so they could have more lambs than when crossed to the horny for that reason.

Ard_MC

Lambman wrote: »

So can someone tell me how does a horned ewe suddenly become more prolific when crossed with a blue Leicester.?

My understanding is the horned ewe doesn't but the offspring are.

ganmo

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

I think it's 50% chance of same sex. It's 25% for male or female.
1 ram 1 ram
1 ram 1 ewe
1 ewe 1 ram
1 ewe 1 ewe

However I presume you mean that there's a better chance of the offspring producing twins. Both scenarios above would rely on the ewe.

you're right...i'd jumped ahead and started counted the twins from split eggs too

razor8

ganmo wrote: »

can ya explain that table please

i've never read it anywhere, but it makes sense to be.

I record all lambs when born and last year let out 35 ewe lambs with Ram. So ya got me thinking and I checked back records

The top row is whether ewe lamb was born as single or if it had a brother or sister. I.e. Both female or one of each

The left column is what they scanned

Green farmer

Any update on how your romneys are getting on razor ?

Bleating Lamb

razor8 wrote: »

I record all lambs when born and last year let out 35 ewe lambs with Ram. So ya got me thinking and I checked back records

The top row is whether ewe lamb was born as single or if it had a brother or sister. I.e. Both female or one of each

The left column is what they scanned

So as an example did your 'Singles' scan carrying 75% twins?

razor8

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

So as an example did your 'Singles' scan carrying 75% twins?

Correct

razor8

Green farmer wrote: »

Any update on how your romneys are getting on razor ?

Nothing about them put me off yet. Few lambs gone to factory off Hoggets that has singles already.

Scanning next year will decide if I stick with them

Green farmer

razor8 wrote: »

Nothing about them put me off yet. Few lambs gone to factory off Hoggets that has singles already.

Scanning next year will decide if I stick with them

interested to hear how they get on. What ewes are you putting to the Romney ram ? How's he maturing ?

ganmo

razor8 wrote: »

I record all lambs when born and last year let out 35 ewe lambs with Ram. So ya got me thinking and I checked back records

The top row is whether ewe lamb was born as single or if it had a brother or sister. I.e. Both female or one of each

The left column is what they scanned

I'd say what you're seeing is that the singles are a bit heavier coming to mating time.
That's the problem with fertility beeeding there's always an overriding environmental factor

razor8

ganmo wrote: »

I'd say what you're seeing is that the singles are a bit heavier coming to mating time.
That's the problem with fertility beeeding there's always an overriding environmental factor

in fairness there was only 4 in that group and agreed would of been heaviest in group

J.O. Farmer

razor8 wrote: »

in fairness there was only 4 in that group and agreed would of been heaviest in group

The small sample size is really what's skewing it. If just 1 of those with twins had a single your back to the same as the other groups

DJ98

Anyone any ideas on what charollais x scotch lambs would be like? Only have two rams so dont want to split the flock.

Inchilad

DJ98 wrote:

Anyone any ideas on what charollais x scotch lambs would be like? Only have two rams so dont want to split the flock.

Have a few here.good lambs enough.good shape to them.

Lambman

Got my 6 new texel ram lambs don't need 6 really might just give them less ewes each... how many ewes would a ram lamb be fit for mid march born all 55kg+? Still have the charrlois for the ewe lambs and didn't sell the others that's getting the road yet... been looking for a Hampshire down but hard till com by in Donegal.... most seem till be across the border is it a lot off hassle buying outta the north? I heard b4 you've till go up till department here and in the north?

charolais0153

Lambman wrote: »

Got my 6 new texel ram lambs don't need 6 really might just give them less ewes each... how many ewes would a ram lamb be fit for mid march born all 55kg+? Still have the charrlois for the ewe lambs and didn't sell the others that's getting the road yet... been looking for a Hampshire down but hard till com by in Donegal.... most seem till be across the border is it a lot off hassle buying outta the north? I heard b4 you've till go up till department here and in the north?

I'd say u should run two or three rams in teams together so to minimise the chance of empty ewes cause of infertility, do u have many ewes and do u have other rams

Ard_MC

Lambman wrote: »

Got my 6 new texel ram lambs don't need 6 really might just give them less ewes each... how many ewes would a ram lamb be fit for mid march born all 55kg+? Still have the charrlois for the ewe lambs and didn't sell the others that's getting the road yet... been looking for a Hampshire down but hard till com by in Donegal.... most seem till be across the border is it a lot off hassle buying outta the north? I heard b4 you've till go up till department here and in the north?

Would 2 good 3yr olds not do the job of 6 ram lambs? And alot less feedin for the winter?

Lambman

Yea there all from the same flock so there used together would be easier till run 3 together wi 65-70 ewes than 25 each... yea have a charrlois there for hoggets and still 2 older Texels but there getting the road.... 135 ewes 38 hoggets and still undecided wether till tip a few lambs.... yea ard_mc u are right but I'm gonna be expanding numbers between this and next year and wanted the rams coming off the 1 farm and used together hoping till have a closed flock from next year on aswell that's the plan anyways!

Ard_MC

Lambman wrote: »

Yea there all from the same flock so there used together would be easier till run 3 together wi 65-70 ewes than 25 each... yea have a charrlois there for hoggets and still 2 older Texels but there getting the road.... 135 ewes 38 hoggets and still undecided wether till tip a few lambs.... yea ard_mc u are right but I'm gonna be expanding numbers between this and next year and wanted the rams coming off the 1 farm and used together hoping till have a closed flock from next year on aswell that's the plan anyways!

Makes sense when you put it like that! Best of luck with the expansion..hopin by next year will be closed myself.

Jonny303

What would anyone recommend for Cheviot X Suffolk ewe lambs. Never tried ewe lambs before so it'll be a new experience. Their hogget counterparts go back to a Suffolk but I think the mating might be too much for a start (recon 140kg + stock ram) and then possible lambing issues.

Green farmer

anything other then a texel or Suffolk

Farmer_3650

Jonny303 wrote: »

What would anyone recommend for Cheviot X Suffolk ewe lambs. Never tried ewe lambs before so it'll be a new experience. Their hogget counterparts go back to a Suffolk but I think the mating might be too much for a start (recon 140kg + stock ram) and then possible lambing issues.

Charollais since they are easy lambing and are very hardy lambs (despite what some people tell you, we bought our first Charollais last year and were very surprised at how quick they are to get up and suck)

Hard Knocks

Farmer_3650 wrote: »

Charollais since they are easy lambing and are very hardy lambs (despite what some people tell you, we bought our first Charollais last year and were very surprised at how quick they are to get up and suck)

+1 good lambs to put on flesh too

Willfarman

Charolais are fine but try to find a strain of the breed that has some wool on the head. The baldy lambs die lie flies when young and soft in wet weather. Also found them to be prone to coccidiosis more than comrade vendeen lamb.

Farmer_3650

Willfarman wrote: »

Charolais are fine but try to find a strain of the breed that has some wool on the head. The baldy lambs die lie flies when young and soft in wet weather. Also found them to be prone to coccidiosis more than comrade vendeen lamb.

When we were buying the Charollais, everyone was telling us that they die easily if you are lambing outside. We lamb indoors but we were lambing a lot of Ewes outside since there was no room in the sheds during that very bad weather in March and we did lose a lot of lambs between drowning, hypothermia etc. But we lost as many Texel and Suffolk lambs as we did Charollais lambs. I found them extremely hardy considering they have very little wool on the head.

Lambman

Lamb inside here as well but when the pressure was on and lambing pens were full ewes and lambs were being put out at 1-2 days old never lost none I also would agree there hardier than there given credit for... just look on done deal how many charrlois are on it they will be the most used rams in Ireland very soon if not already.

Jonny303

Charlois advice all round it seems. I'm bringing suffolk rams to the sheep ireland sale so might just hang around and have a look at the charollais after

Willfarman

Vendeen. Grand woolly hardy lambs. And grade and kill out every bit as well as the Charolais.

White Clover

Willfarman wrote: »

Vendeen. Grand woolly hardy lambs. And grade and kill out every bit as well as the Charolais.

Would you put a vendeen to ewe lambs?

stantheman1979

I've never lambed Charolais outside but they're the easiest lambed and the quickest lambs to get up and suck I've seen here. Over the yrs we've had Suffolk, texal, Hampshire, vendeen, beltex, Romney, lleyn, belclare,Dorset, cheviot, horneys, mules, ille de france. That's my twopence worth. Not saying they're the best or my favourite but they've got fight in them when born and are very easy lambed.

Lambman

stantheman1979 wrote: »

I've never lambed Charolais outside but they're the easiest lambed and the quickest lambs to get up and suck I've seen here. Over the yrs we've had Suffolk, texal, Hampshire, vendeen, beltex, Romney, lleyn, belclare,Dorset, cheviot, horneys, mules, ille de france. That's my twopence worth. Not saying they're the best or my favourite but they've got fight in them when born and are very easy lambed.

That's some list off rams there haha... wat is the breeding in ur ewes and what rams do u run now?

charolais0153

The charrollais are great for the hoggett that doesn't have a clue what's going on, they get up and suck. Its just a pity how they're so bloody cold

stantheman1979

Lambman wrote: »

That's some list off rams there haha... wat is the breeding in ur ewes and what rams do u run now?

Well thats whats come through over the last 20 yrs!! Its all been trial and error as you cant knock a breed until youve tried them.;)
We run belclare, lleyn, romney and a few mules horneys- 1/2 horney ewes and run belclare, lleyn and romneys rams on the maternal side and mostly charollais with a few hampshire and poll dorsets and 1 suffolk(with a small head)on the terminal side.
All the ewe lambs go to charollais rams and never a bother lambing them.We find the hampshire and dorsets put great length and a great frame on lambs and the charollais grow quickly are easy lambed and kill out well.

Green farmer

By the sounds of it the Charolais are easier lambed then the Hampshire ? Do you cross the llyen Romney and belclare back and forth ? Any preference on your favourite maternal ?

Willfarman

White Clover wrote: »

Would you put a vendeen to ewe lambs?

Yes I would.

rangler1

White Clover wrote: »

Would you put a vendeen to ewe lambs?

Used to lamb 120 - 140 ewelambs here to Vendeen every year .....never a problem,

Lambman

rangler1 wrote: »

White Clover wrote: »

Would you put a vendeen to ewe lambs?

Used to lamb 120 - 140 ewelambs here to Vendeen every year .....never a problem,

Would u leave them all with a single lamb Rangler?

rangler1

Lambman wrote: »

Would u leave them all with a single lamb Rangler?

would try to foster alright, but 22 of them reared doubles this year, we'd usually treat the ones with doubles as a seperate bunch, feed them well and leave the singles without meal.
This year however we gave everything about a kilo meal for three weeks, I think the ewes are the better of it now

Lambman

rangler1 wrote: »

Lambman wrote: »

Would u leave them all with a single lamb Rangler?

would try to foster alright, but 22 of them reared doubles this year, we'd usually treat the ones with doubles as a seperate bunch, feed them well and leave the singles without meal.
This year however we gave everything about a kilo meal for three weeks, I think the ewes are the better of it now

That's good going most hoggets here would get a taste a nuts for a few weeks aswell just easier till keep an eye on them never tipped ewe lambs here clipped the replacements last year with the intention off tipping them but the auld fella talked me outta it.

stantheman1979

They can rear 2 lambs but both hogg and lamb would need feeding.I prefer to leave them with one lamb but nothing here gets meal once they're at grass. It's worth putting them in lamb imo. Much easier managed when they lamb again at 2yo and better mothers.

Willfarman

One lamb is perfect job. You have a good lamb and good hogget. I let the ewe hogget feed the twins for a fortnight before I take one for a pet. Gives them a good start.

Jonny303

Is there anyone here sheep farming (profitably) without BPS etc? I don't mean subtracting it out but actually not receiving it full stop. Just reading a piece from the UK about a couple who are doing it very well but I'd imagine its rare enough

Willfarman

Jonny303 wrote: »

Is there anyone here sheep farming (profitably) without BPS etc? I don't mean subtracting it out but actually not receiving it full stop. Just reading a piece from the UK about a couple who are doing it very well but I'd imagine its rare enough

If things go right. ( there's so much can go wrong) yes I d be getting a gross profit. But there's no scope for a investment It's copious amounts of baler twine here..

ganmo

Jonny303 wrote: »

Is there anyone here sheep farming (profitably) without BPS etc? I don't mean subtracting it out but actually not receiving it full stop. Just reading a piece from the UK about a couple who are doing it very well but I'd imagine its rare enough

There's an increasing number of cattle men not applying for the bps out of frustration with the rules and regulations tied to it.
With sheep the only thing that has an impact is the tagging of ewes, the lambs would still have to be tagged going out the gate or you'd never find a buyer
So why wouldn't you apply for it?

Jonny303

ganmo wrote: »

There's an increasing number of cattle men not applying for the bps out of frustration with the rules and regulations tied to it.
With sheep the only thing that has an impact is the tagging of ewes, the lambs would still have to be tagged going out the gate or you'd never find a buyer
So why wouldn't you apply for it?

The article I was reading was more of a case that they didn't have any entitlements, just rented ground on a grazing basis

ganmo

So they had to come take out rent before making a profit! Wouldn't leave much.

Green farmer

Have you a link go article ? There's a modest living to be made from sheep farming, but in most systems, you need to have all your ewes performing and giving you as near to 2 reared lambs at a reasonable cost or your on the back foot unfortunately.

AntrimGlens

Would that article happen to have been in the Farmers Weekly per chance. Tbh I no longer believe all I read in the Farmers weekly anymore when I see the people who have been nominated for their farmers weekly Awards and having been on their farms.
If its the same couple i'm thinking of, they do source ground at an awful lower rate than here although I wouldn't like their diesel bill!

Jonny303

AntrimGlens wrote: »

Would that article happen to have been in the Farmers Weekly per chance. Tbh I no longer believe all I read in the Farmers weekly anymore when I see the people who have been nominated for their farmers weekly Awards and having been on their farms.
If its the same couple i'm thinking of, they do source ground at an awful lower rate than here although I wouldn't like their diesel bill!

I think it was. A couple with no farming background? Can't find it now

Lambman

What do people do as there pre tupping ritual for the ewes I usually crutch the ewes fluke dose and drench with minerals or a bolus like the mayo Healthcare 3 in 1 bolus... and fire a few crystalx buckets with them 6 weeks b4 the ram put till good grass add the ram after 4 weeks for a day and remove him before returning 2 weeks later... scanned just over 1.8 last year happy enough with that till be honest....