Tour de France 2017 Stage 18: Briançon - Izoard, 179.5kms

Kaisr Sose

Inquitus wrote: »

Loans at 50% APR to well over 100% APR, how this is legal I don't know!

And some that are "only 1267% APR....said "one two six seven % "or something obscene like that!

Kaisr Sose

donfers wrote: »

Zero chapeau to Uran, the guy is a leech and would struggle to attack a snackbox meal

Ha ha...well said.

He followed every move. Rarely hit the front. Had he a better 1st stage TT he would have the jersey and maybe the race!

Could he still do it? He looks strong.

ThisRegard

neris wrote: »

New thing in A4 soon

https://twitter.com/michalkwiatek/status/888102708321845249

20 minutes after the race be load of out of breath aul lads looking for their 200 quid go faster oakleys in the ditches

He came to a literal stop soon after that. It obviously wasn't the glasses making it hard for him.

BowSideChamp

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Ha ha...well said.

He followed every move. Rarely hit the front. Had he a better 1st stage TT he would have the jersey and maybe the race!

Could he still do it? He looks strong.

Thankfully cycling hasn't gone down the same road as basketball with fans chanting "defence". I want to watch killers like Dan Martin, willing to risk everything for a chance at victory. Uran doesn't deserve a place in Paris.

Arcade_Tryer

BowSideChamp wrote: »

Thankfully cycling hasn't gone down the same road as basketball with fans chanting "defence". I want to watch killers like Dan Martin, willing to risk everything for a chance at victory. Uran doesn't deserve a place in Paris.

Aside from deserve having nothing to do with anything, why would a rider not deserve a place they have earned? It's a race. It involves strategy. The numbers decide who deserves what. Everything else is based on one's own narrative of events; And bias.

MPFGLB

If Uran finishes second then he deserves second

De Bild

BowSideChamp wrote: »

Thankfully cycling hasn't gone down the same road as basketball with fans chanting "defence". I want to watch killers like Dan Martin, willing to risk everything for a chance at victory. Uran doesn't deserve a place in Paris.

Agreed Sir!

Lusk_Doyle

MPFGLB wrote: »

If Uran finishes second then he deserves second

What if he finishes first? Does he still deserve second?

buffalo

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

What if he finishes first? Does he still deserve second?

Then he deserves third.

greenspurs

Has anyone ever seen Yates leading a group??

Does he ever put his wheel ahead of anyone? He spends every stage in the wheels, and is never at the front of a group!
He just sucks all day , sneaky, and just not nice to watch !!!
Thank god for AG2R and Sunweb + Martin to keep some attacking alive and trying to change the Team Sly script for the stages....

Leroy42

greenspurs wrote: »

Has anyone ever seen Yates leading a group??

Does he ever put his wheel ahead of anyone? He spends every stage in the wheels, and is never at the front of a group!
He just sucks all day , sneaky, and just not nice to watch !!!
Thank god for AG2R and Sunweb + Martin to keep some attacking alive and trying to change the Team Sly script for the stages....

Isn't yates leading the White jersey race? So a young rider.

Why should he be leading the groups? He is doing a fantastic job to be where he is, it is not on him to drive the race forward.

All this talk of people not taking risks etc. Uran cracked at the very end yesterday, he lost out on some bonus seconds. He was clearly pushed as hard as he could. It is not simply a case not not wanted to attack, they are doing everything they can simple to stay in contention.

Lusk_Doyle

Leroy42 wrote: »

Isn't yates leading the White jersey race? So a young rider.

Why should he be leading the groups? He is doing a fantastic job to be where he is, it is not on him to drive the race forward.

All this talk of people not taking risks etc. Uran cracked at the very end yesterday, he lost out on some bonus seconds. He was clearly pushed as hard as he could. It is not simply a case not not wanted to attack, they are doing everything they can simple to stay in contention.

Didn't Uran beat Froome across the line for the bonus seconds?

Leroy42

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

Didn't Uran beat Froome across the line for the bonus seconds?

No Froome beat him.

Regardless, the point is that people seem to be suggesting that these guys could easily break away if only they tried harder, took a risk.

In reality, these guys are on the limit and any up in pace can see them shelled out pretty quickly. Look at Aru, he fights and fights just to stay in contact.

Martin gives it a try but he is pulled back. Not because he isn't trying but the other guys are just better. Simple as.

So yeah, there is some calculation going on in terms or the risk/benefits of trying to attack but it becomes a mute point when you do everything you can just to stay in contact in the first place

greenspurs

Leroy42 wrote: »

Isn't yates leading the White jersey race? So a young rider.

Why should he be leading the groups? He is doing a fantastic job to be where he is, it is not on him to drive the race forward.

All this talk of people not taking risks etc. Uran cracked at the very end yesterday, he lost out on some bonus seconds. He was clearly pushed as hard as he could. It is not simply a case not not wanted to attack, they are doing everything they can simple to stay in contention.

My point is he just rides defensively. Never attacks, just latches on to whoever makes a move.
Yes, he is young, but what does that mean?
Barguil is 25 + Bardet is 26 ? yet they can launch attacks throughout the Tour, meanwhile Yates stays tucked in hiding.
Fair enough, thats his tactic, and it gets him a White jersey.

Burial.

Yeah can't really root for guys like Yates and Uran. At least guys like Bardet and Aru seem to have the tacks and are taking inspiration from Contador and just going for it. Louis Meintjes is the worst for me though. Never does an ounce of positive cycling.

rtmie

greenspurs wrote: »

Has anyone ever seen Yates leading a group??

Does he ever put his wheel ahead of anyone? He spends every stage in the wheels, and is never at the front of a group!
He just sucks all day , sneaky, and just not nice to watch !!!
Thank god for AG2R and Sunweb + Martin to keep some attacking alive and trying to change the Team Sly script for the stages....

Maybe pay more attention. He attacked on descent into Chambered, I think it was, before Dan did. Dan bridged to him and went past. He also took a dig at one stage yesterday and got pulled in pretty quickly. Also on at least one other mountain stage.
As others have said these guys are already on the limit. 3 weeks in , young rider, taking pressure of being his team's main GC guy and keeping top 10 GC.
I'd give him a break!

greenspurs

And as much as i dislike Team Sly -
Their tactics are amazing. So well thought out , and carried out !

kwia yesterday, rose himself to a stop, and then Landa attacks , and then Froome follows....

Why dont a couple of teams with riders in the top 5 or 10 , say right, feck this, lets all just attack these feckers one after the other , until they are gone.......
Not going to happen, but i would so love it !!

rtmie

I suspect that was what AG2R had in mind when they took to the front yesterday in team formation. But Sky doms are so strong that AG2R couldn't burn them out.
You are right about Kwia. He is sensational at emptying the tank. He was on the front doing the pace right up to the point where he didn't have strength to turn a pedal and nearly came to a standstill.

rtmie

To my simple mind Sky approach is not really about marginal gains or other teams poor tactics, it is about money.
In effect they can afford to pay 4-5 guys who are GC top 5 or top 10 level to ride as super doms. They can sustain driving the race pace at a really high level for long hauls each (Viz Kiri or Kwia). That pace is too high for challengers to break past or punch through.
It is no coincidence that AG2R have been closest to challenging them as they have been bringing in strength to back Bardet over past couple of years but don't have quite the financial clout to match.
They said on ES yesterday that UAE will have a massive budget increase next year and will accumulate lots of big names. Sadly seems to be going the way of soccer so UAE may become the Man City of the peloton.
Let's not even go into how some of those 'state sponsored' teams are buying PR through sport to distract from poor human rights at home!

OTOH from what I have read was Mercyx's Molteni team not built on same model that Sky are using?

buffalo

rtmie wrote: »

Maybe pay more attention. He attacked on descent into Chambered, I think it was, before Dan did. Dan bridged to him and went past. He also took a dig at one stage yesterday and got pulled in pretty quickly. Also on at least one other mountain stage.
As others have said these guys are already on the limit. 3 weeks in , young rider, taking pressure of being his team's main GC guy and keeping top 10 GC.
I'd give him a break!

If you mean stage 13, Dan attacked and Yates bridged - here's Yates quote on the day:

"Dan [Martin] was setting a really strong pace on the final climb there and I’m sure that everyone was hurting but I didn’t have the kick to go. I rode my own rhythm to the top and managed to come back. It was fun and games all the way down to the bottom and then I managed to get away and catch Dan in the final. We worked well until the finish line. We gained only a few seconds but for sure it all counts.

rtmie

Perhaps, hands up. Nonetheless I do recall Yates attacking in at least 3 stages , all short lived suggesting willing mind if not body.

greenspurs

rtmie wrote: »

Perhaps, hands up. Nonetheless I do recall Yates attacking in at least 3 stages , all short lived suggesting willing mind if not body.

"Willing mind if not body" .............. ?

I reckon hes just being defensive.... and not willing to gamble on attacking.

If you do find proof of him actually attacking, do please show us.........

rtmie

Can't believe I'm taking bait here but a quick look back at daily report shows Yates attacking the GC group a couple of times on stage 15 on Cote Saint Vidal. I suspect one or many won't change your mind. 
See 4:40

Burial.

rtmie wrote: »

Can't believe I'm taking bait here but a quick look back at daily report shows Yates attacking the GC group a couple of times on stage 15 on Cote Saint Vidal. I suspect one or many won't change your mind. 
See 4:40

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and again.

Kaisr Sose

rtmie wrote: »

Maybe pay more attention. He attacked on descent into Chambered, I think it was, before Dan did. Dan bridged to him and went past. He also took a dig at one stage yesterday and got pulled in pretty quickly. Also on at least one other mountain stage.
As others have said these guys are already on the limit. 3 weeks in , young rider, taking pressure of being his team's main GC guy and keeping top 10 GC.
I'd give him a break!

???
Other way around

rtmie

Burial. wrote: »

rtmie wrote: »

Can't believe I'm taking bait here but a quick look back at daily report shows Yates attacking the GC group a couple of times on stage 15 on Cote Saint Vidal. I suspect one or many won't change your mind. 
See 4:40

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and again.

You know I would love to spend the day going back through day by day reports but maybe I'll just satisfy your nostalgia for the good old days where everyone attacked all the time. 
Like this.

rtmie

Btw I have no particular axe to grind re Yates.  Just a bit nervous of us all wanting continuous super human attacking in the high mountains. We had that before.

donfers

I agree, give me riders like Contador, Martin, Bardet and Barguil every day over wheelsuckers like Uran and Yates.

Yes, Uran and Yates will do well on GC but that doesn't stop them being absolute boringly calculated and cautious to the point of being sterile riders to watch. How do they sleep at night?

robyntmorton

donfers wrote: »

How do they sleep at night?

On top of a pile of money with many beautiful bike components. Makes being a boring racer a bit easier I suppose.

De Bild

donfers wrote: »

I agree, give me riders like Contador, Martin, Bardet and Barguil every day over wheelsuckers like Uran and Yates.

Yes, Uran and Yates will do well on GC but that doesn't stop them being absolute boringly calculated and cautious to the point of being sterile riders to watch. How do they sleep at night?

I would say quite well as they would be quite tired