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How much detail does a workplace legally need when you are out?
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dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »Yes, a dangerous precedent where people can just nip to the bank or sort something out with the local authority as long as their position is covered and their work gets done. This may eventually result in a kind of flex-time arrangement where people can come and go as they please and then what you got? Well, my workplace.
And it has resulted in absolute chaos and bedlam a lot of people just going about their work.
Anyway, back on topic. It is hard to say to exactly what degree the employer has a right to personal details for forced absence. If I rang in saying I had the runs and they asked me about frequency and consistency along with samples and photographic evidence of said runs, I would seriously reconsider working there.
OK, real world example. My wife is sick with pneumonia today. I actually had to take the morning off to bring her to the doc, take care of the dogs and clean up around the house.
If my HR department would grill me to the extent that OP got grilled, I would be seriously miffed.
It does not point to a quality employer that trusts and empowers his employees.
Very similar situation in fact. I was shocked at being asked how and when I travelled home. Who was I attending too? What's wrong with them? This was all after I had said it's a family emergency, was told that's not enough, I replied "is that not a sufficient reason, there is no need for details here surely?". And I basically gave in to the pressure of a stern manager on the other side of the phone. Looking back I'm sorry I didn't hold my ground and say no I'm sorry but that's private. The more I think about it the more inappropriate I think it was that I was required to go into them details.0 -
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Yes people can be very manipulative.
When you first rang in did you say something vague like " a family member is ill, I can't come in tomorrow as I've to care for them"?
I don't see a problem with that. No one should expected the Spanish Inquisition in that case.
(unless they're pulling that every week)
Asking who was it, what was wrong with them, how did the OP travel there is invasive and unnecessary. And the manner of questioning in this case is borderline bullying. But of course line manager in insurance is going to be used to grilling people on every tiny detail of their claim, so this would extend to employees I guess.
Personally, if a family member is ill, I'll go and care for them and my boss can bite me. If he wants to twist a rope out of that for me, he can see how that flies later on. Thankfully I work in a very good office and won't have that worry.
But fired/disciplinary for caring for a loved one won't get far. Some things have to be more important than work.0 -
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MaroonAndGreen wrote: »Almost my exact words to be honest.
Were you then asked which family member and what illness they had that meant you'd to stay away from work to mind them?
If e.g. it was your partner and you'd kids, and you'd to take the day off to deal with the kids, fine, if e.g. they have a chronic illness and are incapacitated that's also fine.
If they had a cold or the winter vomiting bug, that would be different imo.
THe travel thing is weird, however, I see no issue in asking who the family member was and why they were ill.dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »I don't see a problem with that. No one should expected the Spanish Inquisition in that case. (unless they're pulling that every week)
Asking who was it, what was wrong with them, how did the OP travel there is invasive and unnecessary. And the manner of questioning in this case is borderline bullying. But of course line manager in insurance is going to be used to grilling people on every tiny detail of their claim, so this would extend to employees I guess.
Personally, if a family member is ill, I'll go and care for them and my boss can bite me. If he wants to twist a rope out of that for me, he can see how that flies later on. Thankfully I work in a very good office and won't have that worry.
But fired/disciplinary for caring for a loved one won't get far. Some things have to be more important than work.
In extremis, I once had a member of staff who had six grandparents die in two years, and in another organisation I worked in management regularly checked rip.ie to check out supposed deaths of family members.0 -
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dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »Yes people can be very manipulative.
When you first rang in did you say something vague like " a family member is ill, I can't come in tomorrow as I've to care for them"?
I don't see a problem with that. No one should expected the Spanish Inquisition in that case. (unless they're pulling that every week)
Asking who was it, what was wrong with them, how did the OP travel there is invasive and unnecessary. And the manner of questioning in this case is borderline bullying. But of course line manager in insurance is going to be used to grilling people on every tiny detail of their claim, so this would extend to employees I guess.
Personally, if a family member is ill, I'll go and care for them and my boss can bite me. If he wants to twist a rope out of that for me, he can see how that flies later on. Thankfully I work in a very good office and won't have that worry.
But fired/disciplinary for caring for a loved one won't get far. Some things have to be more important than work.
That did come to my mind actually, that basically every phone call that manager has everyday is grilling someone to find out the truth.0 -
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MaroonAndGreen wrote: »Almost my exact words to be honest.
Were you then asked which family member and what illness they had that meant you'd to stay away from work to mind them?
If e.g. it was your partner and you'd kids, and you'd to take the day off to deal with the kids, fine, if e.g. they have a chronic illness and are incapacitated that's also fine.
If they had a cold or the winter vomiting bug, that would be different imo.
THe travel thing is weird, however, I see no issue in asking who the family member was and why they were ill.dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »I don't see a problem with that. No one should expected the Spanish Inquisition in that case. (unless they're pulling that every week)
Asking who was it, what was wrong with them, how did the OP travel there is invasive and unnecessary. And the manner of questioning in this case is borderline bullying. But of course line manager in insurance is going to be used to grilling people on every tiny detail of their claim, so this would extend to employees I guess.
Personally, if a family member is ill, I'll go and care for them and my boss can bite me. If he wants to twist a rope out of that for me, he can see how that flies later on. Thankfully I work in a very good office and won't have that worry.
But fired/disciplinary for caring for a loved one won't get far. Some things have to be more important than work.
In extremis, I once had a member of staff who had six grandparents die in two years, and in another organisation I worked in management regularly checked rip.ie to check out supposed deaths of family members.
Yes I was then asked this. Along with who informed me. How I travelled? When I find out? I'll also add that at no point was there a bit of empathy shown or at no point even after explaining why I was at home did the manager ask how was the family member etc. Just a cold conversation.0
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