Excessive rent - how is it policed?

sapper · 21-07-2017 11:20am #1

Hi - I moved out of a place in a rent pressure zone a few weeks ago but I've noticed that's it back up for rent by the landlord at a much higher rent - much more than the max rent as per the prtb calculator. The ad refers to the house being refurbished but it hasn't been. How are flagrant breaches of the rules like this policed? Do the prtb check up on any new tenancies where the rent is much more than that paid by the previous tenant and seek proof of refurbishment etc? Or does someone have to complain?

C3PO · 21-07-2017 11:21am

My understanding is that somebody has to complain to the PRTB.

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21-07-2017 11:27am

Firstly it's none of your business so you should move on and forget about it. Secondly it's been a few weeks, how do you know it wasn't refurbished?

sapper · 21-07-2017 11:30am

Tatum Vast Watermelon wrote: »

Firstly it's none of your business so you should move on and forget about it. Secondly it's been a few weeks, how do you know it wasn't refurbished?

I can see the photos on the ad.

hidinginthebush · 21-07-2017 11:34am

Tatum Vast Watermelon wrote: »

Firstly it's none of your business so you should move on and forget about it. Secondly it's been a few weeks, how do you know it wasn't refurbished?

That's a ridiculous attitude! The landlord are clearly trying to pull a fast one. I've no sympathy for them in this case, OP should report them. Otherwise the crazy rent market will continue to charge these exorbitant prices.

Also OP could have easily seen pics of the house on daft on the ad. You have to have made significant refurbs to up the rent (I think a new kitchen is specifically called as not being sufficient to up the rent, so it has to be big changes)

gizmo81 · 21-07-2017 11:36am

Tatum Vast Watermelon wrote: »

Firstly it's none of your business so you should move on and forget about it. Secondly it's been a few weeks, how do you know it wasn't refurbished?

Enforcing the law is everyones business.

OP. Export the advert to PDF including a screen shot with the date. Gather any photos of the property you have from your time there.

Send to RTB Enforcement section and also wait a few weeks and send to the new tenants.

C3PO · 21-07-2017 11:38am

gizmo81 wrote: »

Enforcing the law is everyones business.

OP. Export the advert to PDF including a screen shot with the date. Gather any photos of the property you have from your time there.

Send to RTB Enforcement section and also wait a few weeks and send to the new tenants.

Everyone to their own ... I guess!!

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mackeminexile · 21-07-2017 11:42am

Tatum Vast Watermelon wrote: »

Firstly it's none of your business so you should move on and forget about it. Secondly it's been a few weeks, how do you know it wasn't refurbished?

Rubbish, if the landlord is trying to pull a fast one then they should absolutely be called out on it otherwise whats the point of the new regulations? There is a responsibility to follow through in my mind. The culture of look the other way as long as it's not me getting screwed can only end through participation

gizmo81 · 21-07-2017 11:43am

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You are not allowed renegotiate the rent. That is a dangerous situation for the landlord as in one year time the tenant could go to the RTB to recoup the excess money paid.

....... · 21-07-2017 11:58am

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gizmo81 · 21-07-2017 12:08pm

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How can people negotiate in an RPZ?

sapper · 21-07-2017 12:11pm

I think it's crazy that the only way these new rules can be enforced are through new tenant seeking evidence or an old tenant complaining. New tenants won't want to rock the boat and most old tenants won't want or won't be bothered to get involved. It may be a civic duty to report a crime but how many crimes would be reported if the perpetrator knows who reported them and (in a lot of cases) had contact details?

If all it takes to "name your rent" is a lie in a property ad (and isn't that unheard of?) and the complacency of an old tenant then a lot of people are going to try it on, especially when they see similar properties getting many hundreds more in rent a month.

Why can't the prtb publish the rent attached to each tenancy on their website like the property price register? Then at least anyone with internet access could report the breach

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gizmo81 · 21-07-2017 12:18pm

....... wrote: »

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Hahahaha that is such a rarity I didn't think of it.

big syke · 21-07-2017 12:22pm

Tatum Vast Watermelon wrote: »

Firstly it's none of your business so you should move on and forget about it. Secondly it's been a few weeks, how do you know it wasn't refurbished?

P.s substantial refurbishment (as Is needed to allow the increases describes) takes longer than a few weeks.

A ‘substantial refurbishment’ must be a significant change to the dwelling resulting in increased market value of the tenancy. Therefore this would involve significant alterations or improvements which add to the letting value of the property - usually involving major building works or works requiring planning permission. For example, simple repainting or replacement of white goods would not be sufficient.

Browney7 · 21-07-2017 12:24pm

Tatum Vast Watermelon wrote: »

Firstly it's none of your business so you should move on and forget about it. Secondly it's been a few weeks, how do you know it wasn't refurbished?

And what about the landlords who readvertised tenancies within the law and didn't blatantly flout the law?

You may not like the law passed but it is the law.

Realistically new tenant probably has a one year lease so can contest away. If the landlord proves he has refurbished sure he can show evidence and all is hunky dory.

21-07-2017 12:28pm

gizmo81 wrote: »

Enforcing the law is everyones business.

OP. Export the advert to PDF including a screen shot with the date. Gather any photos of the property you have from your time there.

Send to RTB Enforcement section and also wait a few weeks and send to the new tenants.

Well it's not my business, the LL should be allowed to charge market rent so I don't blame them for ignoring the rules.

Wanderer78 · 21-07-2017 12:31pm

Wren Chubby Story wrote:

Well it's not my business, the LL should be allowed to charge market rent so I don't blame them for ignoring the rules.

Yup, it's just the market reaching 'equilibrium', I wouldn't overly worry about it, it's good for us all, apparently!

gizmo81 · 21-07-2017 12:33pm

Tatum Vast Watermelon wrote: »

Well it's not my business, the LL should be allowed to charge market rent so I don't blame them for ignoring the rules.

I don't believe advocating to break the law is the way to go. :eek:

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big syke · 21-07-2017 12:41pm

Tatum Vast Watermelon wrote: »

Well it's not my business, the LL should be allowed to charge market rent so I don't blame them for ignoring the rules.

Ah ye good stuff. I don't like these particular rules so following the law is not my business.

Raoul · 21-07-2017 4:05pm

How do you go about complaining? Or who is it to? Do you have to pay money to complain?

davo10 · 21-07-2017 6:49pm

I refurbished a property a few years ago, new kitchen, electric showers so new wiring, upgraded to required fire safety standards, improved insulation to get better Ber rating, new (though moderately priced) furniture, new boiler. It took just over a month. I couldn't be arsed taking new photos and used an archived ad on daft from a few years previously.

Op move on. It's a bit sad going back for a bite on a previous landlord.

Nickindublin · 21-07-2017 6:58pm

i know a landlord who got around it after his tenant moved out. He rented the apt out to the max he could under the rent zone pressure but rented out the car space separately. The new tenant had to rent both. I think the rent went up by 12% for new tenant. Nothing illegal.

Graham · 21-07-2017 7:00pm

Nickindublin wrote: »

i know a landlord who got around it after his tenant moved out. He rented the apt out to the max he could under the rent zone pressure but rented out the car space separately. The new tenant had to rent both. I think the rent went up by 12% for new tenant. Nothing illegal.

Would be interesting to see if that approach has been tested in front of the RTB.

The_Conductor · 21-07-2017 7:08pm

gizmo81 wrote: »

Enforcing the law is everyones business.

OP. Export the advert to PDF including a screen shot with the date. Gather any photos of the property you have from your time there.

Send to RTB Enforcement section and also wait a few weeks and send to the new tenants.

Everyone should obey the law.
It is up to the RTB or an authorised officer (including the local authority officers)- to enforce the law.

It is not the job of the public to enforce the law- it is a legal requirement to abide by the law- abiding by the law- is wholly different from enforcing it.

gizmo81 · 21-07-2017 7:17pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

Everyone should obey the law.
It is up to the RTB or an authorised officer (including the local authority officers)- to enforce the law.

It is not the job of the public to enforce the law- it is a legal requirement to abide by the law- abiding by the law- is wholly different from enforcing it.

I think you misunderstand me. I said Enforcing the law is everyones business.

It's everyones business to report murder, rape, theft and so forth.

This is no different.

It's in the public interest to report crime.

Tenants and landlords should be reporting to improve the rental landscape.

davo10 · 21-07-2017 7:35pm

gizmo81 wrote: »

I think you misunderstand me. I said Enforcing the law is everyones business.

It's everyones business to report murder, rape, theft and so forth.

This is no different.

It's in the public interest to report crime.

Tenants and landlords should be reporting to improve the rental landscape.

You don't see a difference between rental rates and rape/murder?

Jesus wept.

gizmo81 · 21-07-2017 7:40pm

davo10 wrote: »

You don't see a difference between rental rates and rape/murder?

Jesus wept.

Wow everyone is really misunderstanding me.

I said:

It's everyones business to report murder, rape, theft and so forth.

This is no different.

It's the publics responsibility to report when a law is broken to the Gardai.

It's no different to reporting a law being broken to the RTB/Local Authority.

Excessive rent - how is it policed?

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