Nick Symmonds Sub 3hr Attempt

healy1835

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeXJQ2GQh4BoRuAEkteU0Wg

He's running the Honolulu marathon at the end of the year and hoping to go sub 3. Is he setting his goals too low i wonder or will his lack of long distance running work against him. I cant help but think that maybe 3hrs is a conservative goal for an athlete of his calibre. Always found him good value in interviews when he was competing and his vlogs have been interesting so far.....

Djoucer

That's a fairly mundane challenge.

Chivito550

Djoucer wrote: »

That's a fairly mundane challenge.

Yeh agreed. That's hardly interesting at all. Be far more interesting if he tried something like pole vault, shot putt, snowboard cross or whatever.

There's nothing more incredibly common than the marathon! Then again he's playing to the masses which makes perfect business sense.

Testosterscone

Chivito550 wrote: »

Then again he's playing to the masses which makes perfect business sense.

I have a feeling that is why the target is 3 hours rather than 2.30, 2.40 or 2.50 tbh

healy1835

You'd like to think he'd maybe reevaluate his target as his training progresses. What would his weekly mileage have been when he was in training for the 800?
Don't see the challenge as mundane myself, 3 hrs maybe, but not the marathon training itself.

Testosterscone

healy1835 wrote: »

You'd like to think he'd maybe reevaluate his target as his training progresses. What would his weekly mileage have been when he was in training for the 800?

He use to do around 70-80 mpw in the winter so is no stranger to mileage. He does have a 3.34 to his name in the 1500m however this year has been hampered by injury but he has still been running around the 1.50 mark

healy1835

Testosterscone wrote: »

He use to do around 70-80 mpw in the winter so is no stranger to mileage. He does have a 3.34 to his name in the 1500m however this year has been hampered by injury but he has still been running around the 1.50 mark

Yeah so he's still in decent nick he mentioned he had a 24:55 5mile PB from his college XC days I think.....

ooter

Having watched his latest vlog, the furthest he has run is 14 miles and the Marathon is only about 10 weeks away.
Seems strange, I would've thought he would've ran farther that that by now.

healy1835

ooter wrote: »

Having watched his latest vlog, the furthest he has run is 14 miles and the Marathon is only about 10 weeks away.
Seems strange, I would've thought he would've ran farther that that by now.

Yeah i suppose it probably goes back to question of whether the target was pretty soft. I'd say 10 weeks out, with his base would still be time enough. The vlogs are a great watch.....

average_runner

ooter wrote: »

Having watched his latest vlog, the furthest he has run is 14 miles and the Marathon is only about 10 weeks away.
Seems strange, I would've thought he would've ran farther that that by now.

Depends on his coach. Hanson doesn't recommend anything over 16 miles

ooter

average_runner wrote: »

Depends on his coach. Hanson doesn't recommend anything over 16 miles

Jaysus don't mention the H word, was absolutely disastrous for me.
The vlogs were great at first and he was doing 4-5 a week for the first few weeks but since then it's been 1, maybe 2 vlogs a week. He's obviously a busy guy but a few more would be nice.

average_runner

ooter wrote: »

Jaysus don't mention the H word, was absolutely disastrous for me.
The vlogs were great at first and he was doing 4-5 a week for the first few weeks but since then it's been 1, maybe 2 vlogs a week. He's obviously a busy guy but a few more would be nice.

Oh really, what happened as was thinking of following it for a marathon next year.
I was following the half but got injured due to over achieving on my behalf but thought it was very good.

But its all untested for me as no results!!!

ooter

average_runner wrote: »

Oh really, what happened as was thinking of following it for a marathon next year.

Pretty much nailed every session and worked my arse off but my legs never recovered during the taper period, my legs were constantly tired all through the programme so thought they'd come back strong but never did, ended up running the marathon almost 30 mins slower than what I had in mind and thought I was capable of, had a horrible day. I've no doubt it works for most people but it wasn't for me unfortunately.

El Caballo

Symmonds ran 3:00:35.

Suprisingly, after doing the Pro street mile yesterday, Nick Willis and Will Leer decided to do the marathon as a progression training run working down from 6:30 pace to 5:10. They ran the first half at 2:50 pace before Willis picked it up to hit 40k in 2:31 which had him on for a 2:38 finish when he pulled out. A 40k training run for a miler:eek:

AuldManKing

El Caballo wrote: »

Symmonds ran 3:00:35.

Suprisingly, after doing the Pro street mile yesterday, Nick Willis and Will Leer decided to do the marathon as a progression training run working down from 6:30 pace to 5:10. They ran the first half at 2:50 pace before Willis picked it up to hit 40k in 2:31 which had him on for a 2:38 finish when he pulled out. A 40k training run for a miler:eek:

In a way, its 'great' to see that he didn't break 3.

There was a lot of online & podcast references that he was setting an easy target, but the training must have got the better of him as he got injured, so his longest run was only 16 miles.

Respect to all those 'normal people' who break 3.

El Caballo

AuldManKing wrote: »

In a way, its 'great' to see that he didn't break 3.

There was a lot of online & podcast references that he was setting an easy target, but the training must have got the better of him as he got injured, so his longest run was only 16 miles.

Respect to all those 'normal people' who break 3.

To be fair, I'd say it was the lack of training that got the better of him rather than the training. He used to run well over twice that and nearly 3 times that weekly mileage training for the 800m. If he had taken this in any way serious, he'd be close to 2:30 for sure. Sub-3 was an easy target but he didn't even half ass it.

AuldManKing

El Caballo wrote: »

To be fair, I'd say it was the lack of training that got the better of him rather than the training. He used to run well over twice that and nearly 3 times that weekly mileage training for the 800m. If he had taken this in any way serious, he'd be close to 2:30 for sure. Sub-3 was an easy target but he didn't even half ass it.

I'm quite sure I heard in a PodCast (Final Surge I think) that the training caused him an injury and he only maxed out at 16m as a result) - maybe I'm wrong.
But I dont think he went half assed at it.

El Caballo

AuldManKing wrote: »

I'm quite sure I heard in a PodCast (Final Surge I think) that the training caused him an injury and he only maxed out at 16m as a result) - maybe I'm wrong.
But I dont think he went half assed at it.

He got injured during the half marathon and missed two weeks at the end of October. He was only running 25-30 miles per week which pales in comparison to the 70-80 he used to do during 800m training. This is a guy who has run a 3:51 mile equivalent for 1500m. He wasn't taking this serious, this was just another way to market himself and his products.

Not taking anything away from sub-3 runners (I'd kill for a sub-3 myself) but Nick Symmonds is on a completely different level and capable of much, much faster with serious training.

TFBubendorfer

El Caballo wrote: »

Not taking anything away from sub-3 runners (I'd kill for a sub-3 myself) but Nick Symmonds is on a completely different level and capable of much, much faster with serious training.

He certainly is, which is why I'm so surprised to see that result.

For a runner of his caliber I would have thought even a half-assed attempt would easily see him go sub-3.

healy1835

Yeah he canned the vlog pretty early on which was both a pity and probably a sign he didn't/couldn't commit to the training. 7min and 8min miles @ 25 & 26 miles to finish 35 secs over the 3hrs

robinph

El Caballo wrote: »

...He was only running 25-30 miles per week ...

It's possible to go sub 3 on that mileage.

clickerquicklic

Yeah there's a vegan cyclist on youtube who ran a 2.48 marathon off 10 miles a week , I would of guessed he would be naturally talented enough to run sub 3 on very low mileage just with the years of running background .

walshb

Lance Armstrong can clear 3 hours with a lot to spare! He's not even a runner.

clickerquicklic

walshb wrote: »

Lance Armstrong can clear 3 hours with a lot to spare! He's not even a runner.

All the years of cycling must be a huge factor , he probably spent 8 hours a day or more on the bike training that would give you a huge aerobic engine.

Itziger

walshb wrote: »

Lance Armstrong can clear 3 hours with a lot to spare! He's not even a runner.

And he never failed a drugs' test.

El Caballo

The problem is that Symmonds was/is a fairly specialised 800m runner(even though he a good 1500 time), he is simply not built for the marathon physiologically, he is loaded with fast twitch fibers and has a gift for tolerating high levels of lactate. All the endurance work in the world will never change that just Bolt trying to run a 1500m or Bekele trying to run a fast 200m for instance. The demands are different between the 800 and the marathon and to be as good as he was at 800m has a huge effect on his marathon ability, he was made for the 800m.

Clicker, I wouldnt pay much attention to Durianrider, he's a sensationalist troll looking for youtube clicks and even at that, logging 700km a week crosstraining on the bike is going to have some effect on your running performance when it's mainly aerobic. Him saying he trained 10 mile per week is underselling the huge volumes of aerobic training he does every week by a long way.

Testosterscone

El Caballo wrote: »

Clicker, I wouldnt pay much attention to Durianrider, he's a sensationalist troll looking for youtube clicks and even at that, logging 700km a week crosstraining on the bike is going to have some effect on your running performance when it's mainly aerobic. Him saying he trained 10 mile per week is underselling the huge volumes of aerobic training he does every week by a long way.

Not to mention his admitted PED usage. He is a clickbait troll of the highest order

El Caballo wrote: »

The problem is that Symmonds was/is a fairly specialised 800m runner(even though he a good 1500 time), he is simply not built for the marathon physiologically, he is loaded with fast twitch fibers and has a gift for tolerating high levels of lactate. All the endurance work in the world will never change that just Bolt trying to run a 1500m or Bekele trying to run a fast 200m for instance. The demands are different between the 800 and the marathon and to be as good as he was at 800m has a huge effect on his marathon ability, he was made for the 800m.

Clicker, I wouldnt pay much attention to Durianrider, he's a sensationalist troll looking for youtube clicks and even at that, logging 700km a week crosstraining on the bike is going to have some effect on your running performance when it's mainly aerobic. Him saying he trained 10 mile per week is underselling the huge volumes of aerobic training he does every week by a long way.

I think people are probably looking into this too much. Symmonds has always been a business man. Everything he does is driven by his business acumen(I say business rather than money as he enjoys the sport but feels that athletes are the commodity and should be valued as such) but with that in mind the fact that he targetted sub 3 was simply a way of appealing to the masses. My guess is that he has fully retired and this was just a way to keep the hype going a bit longer and garner someone traction for Run Gum in the marathon circles.

walshb

Itziger wrote: »

And he never failed a drugs' test.

So what. He was never a runner....

Nick is a "bulky" runner. Ideal for 800 and 1000 metres. The extra bulk and weight would affect his performances over long distances, but with training and effort he'd still go close to 2 hrs 30.

Chivito550

Guys, he’s a business man, and he’s trying to get the everyday runner to associate themselves with him. He’d run sub 3 with his eyes closed if he was at all bothered. He’s a 1:42 800m runner (granted well past his best) with a decent 1500m time. I know 2:02 800m runners who have stepped up to the marathon and ran 2:50ish at their first attempt. He’s making this look harder than it really is to capture the casual runner’s attention.

He’s a smart man.

Birdie Num Num

clickerquicklic wrote: »

Yeah there's a vegan cyclist on youtube who ran a 2.48 marathon off 10 miles a week , I would of guessed he would be naturally talented enough to run sub 3 on very low mileage just with the years of running background .

Is that 10 hours of just cycling and no running? Plenty of lean cyclists who rack up miles on the bike and supplement with little running will have plenty in the tank to run reasonably well.

ooter

Chivito550 wrote: »

Guys, he’s a business man, and he’s trying to get the everyday runner to associate themselves with him. He’d run sub 3 with his eyes closed if he was at all bothered. He’s a 1:42 800m runner (granted well past his best) with a decent 1500m time. I know 2:02 800m runners who have stepped up to the marathon and ran 2:50ish at their first attempt. He’s making this look harder than it really is to capture the casual runner’s attention.

He’s a smart man.

Don't buy that at all, if he put the training in he'd go sub 3 but he certainly wouldn't do it with his eyes closed.
Iwan Thomas (probably a poor comparison) has ran a good few Marathons and he's never even come close to sub 3, I'd imagine he would've comfortably ran under 2 mins for 800m.

Itziger

Some of the ballsier posters in here could crawl a sub 3 with their eyes closed. Or hop maybe. With a bit of training. If they wanted to.

Chivito550

ooter wrote: »

Don't buy that at all, if he put the training in he'd go sub 3 but he certainly wouldn't do it with his eyes closed.
Iwan Thomas (probably a poor comparison) has ran a good few Marathons and he's never even come close to sub 3, I'd imagine he would've comfortably ran under 2 mins for 800m.

Iwan Thomas was a 400m runner, Symmonds was an 800m runner. Thomas ran marathons years after retirement, Symmonds is only just retired from track. Poor comparison.

Testosterscone

Testosterscone wrote: »

I think people are probably looking into this too much. Symmonds has always been a business man. Everything he does is driven by his business acumen(I say business rather than money as he enjoys the sport but feels that athletes are the commodity and should be valued as such) but with that in mind the fact that he targetted sub 3 was simply a way of appealing to the masses. My guess is that he has fully retired and this was just a way to keep the hype going a bit longer and garner someone traction for Run Gum in the marathon circles.

Just in case anyone is unsure about his motives. Perhaps sub 3 was almost deliberate?

https://twitter.com/nicksymmonds/status/939999343158820864