Dublin Coach Experience Discussion Thread

WishUWereHere

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

I was stuck for an unexpected trip from WD to KK. If I travel I almost always drive or if not its JJ Kavanagh

Just hope You get to Your destination safely Od! BTW, how long before the 'driver/receptionist' finished their phone chat?

Odyssey 2005

WishUWereHere wrote: »

Just hope You get to Your destination safely Od! BTW, how long before the 'driver/receptionist' finished their phone chat?

The exit for Mullinavat

Home safely thanks. I dont usually have a problem with a driver taking a call,but this wasnt a work call or a family emergency (as far as I could tell), it sounded like a few mates having the craic.

Vic_08

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

I was stuck for an unexpected trip from WD to KK. If I travel I almost always drive or if not its JJ Kavanagh

It is disgraceful that this standard is allowed to pass for public transport but as long as people keep using it there is no incentive for them to change and worse still there is pressure on other operators to cut corners to compete. BE withdrew from Dublin-Kilkenny if they squeeze JJK out you will be left with even less options.

Sadly there is no oversight of commercial services in Ireland. Once an operator has got their foot in the door the NTA just rubber stamp the licences renewals and allow the companies to operate however they please, no maintenance standards, no accessibility requirements, no bus stop marking, timetable or fare publishing requirements, no complaints procedure or independent regulator to ensure they are acting correctly. FFS they won't even tell the public the details or terms of the licences they grant so you can't even tell if the operators are even working within their licences properly. Meanwhile the NTA fret over minutiae such as how much yellow paint is on the front of PSO route buses and changing bus stop heads so GAI run services do not have to use DB branded bus stops.

AndrewJRenko

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

Hows your Polosh /Lithuanian?
He was on a wired earpiece, which is also illegal

The earpiece is legal. If he touches or holds the phone while driving, that is illegal. Report him to the Garda TrafficWatch phone line.


One of the coaches blocked up the Gort Mhuire roundabout in Ballinteer nicely this evening, pushing into the yellow box and blocking all traffic from moving on the roundabout.

Odyssey 2005

Vic_08 wrote: »

It is disgraceful that this standard is allowed to pass for public transport but as long as people keep using it there is no incentive for them to change and worse still there is pressure on other operators to cut corners to compete. BE withdrew from Dublin-Kilkenny if they squeeze JJK out you will be left with even less options.

Sadly there is no oversight of commercial services in Ireland. Once an operator has got their foot in the door the NTA just rubber stamp the licences renewals and allow the companies to operate however they please, no maintenance standards, no accessibility requirements, no bus stop marking, timetable or fare publishing requirements, no complaints procedure or independent regulator to ensure they are acting correctly. FFS they won't even tell the public the details or terms of the licences they grant so you can't even tell if the operators are even working within their licences properly. Meanwhile the NTA fret over minutiae such as how much yellow paint is on the front of PSO route buses and changing bus stop heads so GAI run services do not have to use DB branded bus stops.

You should go down to Kilkenny and have a look at the clusterfuk of a city service that the NTA signed off on. Bus stops painted on some of the narrowest city streets in the country. They just stop in the middle of the road and motorists behind them and in some cases meeting them must wait for passengers to board and alight. I know where I'd like to stick the NTA's man rubber stamp :eek:

Quackster

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

You should go down to Kilkenny and have a look at the clusterfuk of a city service that the NTA signed off on. Bus stops painted on some of the narrowest city streets in the country. They just stop in the middle of the road and motorists behind them and in some cases meeting them must wait for passengers to board and alight. I know where I'd like to stick the NTA's man rubber stamp :eek:

At least they're running decent busses. If you're looking for a clusterfuçk of horse manure, check out the 'Tralee People's Bus Service'! :eek:

belfast stephen

New Double decker coaches should start to arrive with the first 4 at the end of February

Odyssey 2005

belfast stephen wrote: »

New Double decker coaches should start to arrive with the first 4 at the end of February

Cant wait

WishUWereHere

belfast stephen wrote: »

New Double decker coaches should start to arrive with the first 4 at the end of February

All well and good getting new buses, but there’s still the issue of drivers spending 15 minutes on their phones - wonder will anything be done on this issue?

punisher5112

WishUWereHere wrote: »

All well and good getting new buses, but there’s still the issue of drivers spending 15 minutes on their phones - wonder will anything be done on this issue?

Nothing illegal about it if hands free....

Bus eireann for example need phones as they have no other way of contacting control or to get them ...

embraer170

belfast stephen wrote: »

New Double decker coaches should start to arrive with the first 4 at the end of February

How many are they expecting in total?

Old diesel

Quackster wrote: »

At least they're running decent busses. If you're looking for a clusterfuçk of horse manure, check out the 'Tralee People's Bus Service'! :eek:

Please tell me they aren't still running the old boneshaker Mercs 😯🧐🧐🧐

Muller1991

I collected my brother from Dublin airport on Saturday afternoon around 5pm. As i was coming onto the M50 heading southbound , I noticed a black Mercedes Sprinter with a route number on the LED Screenit said Dundrum on it too.

The speed at which it was going was laughable I was doing 90-100 kmph I'd say the bus was at leats doing 120-140kmph at times and then breaking sharply enough in the outer lane all the way to the Red Cow. He over took myself at least 4 times must have changed lanes at least 8 times from the airport as far as the Red Cow.

When the bus was exiting at the Red Cow he jumped from the outer lane and moved across three lanes to get into the slip road for the Red Cow.

Not the first time I've come across DC's Erratic driving.

road_high

Muller1991 wrote: »

I collected my brother from Dublin airport on Saturday afternoon around 5pm. As i was coming onto the M50 heading southbound , I noticed a black Mercedes Sprinter with a route number on the LED Screenit said Dundrum on it too.

The speed at which it was going was laughable I was doing 90-100 kmph I'd say the bus was at leats doing 120-140kmph at times and then breaking sharply enough in the outer lane all the way to the Red Cow. He over took myself at least 4 times must have changed lanes at least 8 times from the airport as far as the Red Cow.

When the bus was exiting at the Red Cow he jumped from the outer lane and moved across three lanes to get into the slip road for the Red Cow.

Not the first time I've come across DC's Erratic driving.

I was on one last year (double decker 6 wheeler) that the driver missed the N7 exit off the M50, tore on southbound and then suddenly realised at the Ballymount exit he'd made a mistake and jumped across to the exit lanes narrowly missing cars behind that he pulled out in front of (horns blaring and lights flashing!) ended up skidding onto the loose stones and stopping the bus. Heart in the mouth experience, I was certain someone would collide with us. Apologised to the passengers ann back onto the road over the flyover and back up to the N7/Red Cow. We all make mistakes but jesus christ on a busy motorway- keep going and come off at the next junction safely (Tallaght/Firhouse I guess)- I'd rather be late a few minutes than be dead or injured! The training their staff get must be very questionable.

AndrewJRenko

road_high wrote: »

The training their staff get must be very questionable.

Is it a training issue, or is it down to incentives/punishments for drivers for not keeping to schedule?

Jamie2k9

What routes are new buses going on?

Rumour has it BE plan some expressway changes for 4/40 to compete on M9 route among other changes.

belfast stephen

Some of them are going on the belfast route but it being Dublin coach I would wait and see

road_high

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

What routes are new buses going on?

Rumour has it BE plan some expressway changes for 4/40 to compete on M9 route among other changes.

Like what? BE already chopped the X7 giving DB a free hand to Kilkenny and the DC route seems to be doing very well now. I would like to see some of the X/4 's serve Kilkenny but appreciate people in Waterford like a direct run up the M9 if possible.

road_high

Wasn't there a 2.00am service from the Airport that went via Kilkenny- is that gone now as well, can't see it on the timetable.

EDIT- Sorry that was JJ Kavannagh I was thinking of!

road_high

How's Clonmel fairing since the X7 was chopped? Must have meant a big increas in JJ Kavanagh numbers. I think that was a very unfair and severe cut to services (I appreciate Expressway is not subsidised) but had it been an area with much stronger political repreentation, I doubt that a blanket cut like that would have happened.
I thought DB might run a spur off the M9 service to it but needs to make money.

bk

Vic_08 wrote: »

Sadly there is no oversight of commercial services in Ireland. Once an operator has got their foot in the door the NTA just rubber stamp the licences renewals and allow the companies to operate however they please, no maintenance standards, no accessibility requirements, no bus stop marking, timetable or fare publishing requirements, no complaints procedure or independent regulator to ensure they are acting correctly.

To balance that, GoBus, Aircoach and Citylink * all operate fantastic services to Cork, Galway and Belfast IME. VASTLY superior to BE, like night and day difference in quality.

* I've also never heard anything but good things about JJK too, but I've yet to have the pleasure to use that service.

DC are the weird odd man out amongst private operators. They somehow seem to have gotten away with a monopoly on some of their routes and the resulting lack of quality shows. Monopoly IME is never good, doesn't matter if public or private, the customer always ends up suffering.

belfast stephen

bk wrote: »

To balance that, GoBus, Aircoach and Citylink * all operate fantastic services to Cork, Galway and Belfast IME. VASTLY superior to BE, like night and day difference in quality.

* I've also never heard anything but good things about JJK too, but I've yet to have the pleasure to use that service.

DC are the weird odd man out amongst private operators. They somehow seem to have gotten away with a monopoly on some of their routes and the resulting lack of quality shows. Monopoly IME is never good, doesn't matter if public or private, the customer always ends up suffering.

Dublin coach are provide a good service to belfast which is popular with many people and can be very busy at times

bk

belfast stephen wrote: »

Dublin coach are provide a good service to belfast which is popular with many people and can be very busy at times

And that pretty much proves the point. The reason their service to Belfast is good, is because there is loads of high quality competition on this route, Aircoach, Bus Eireann, UlsterBus all operating competing services for years.

As a result they put their best, brand new coaches on this route, while their other routes with no competition get the ancient coaches where you see tons of trouble.

Of course the danger is that eventually they will eliminate Aircoach/BE/UB from the route and end up with a monopoly and they you get to see the same cost cutting on that route too.

punisher5112

belfast stephen wrote: »

Dublin coach are provide a good service to belfast which is popular with many people and can be very busy at times

That's because they're fighting to make money on it with such competition....

It's why they're constantly putting the new coaches when they get them straight on it.

Nigel Fairservice

bk wrote: »

To balance that, GoBus, Aircoach and Citylink * all operate fantastic services to Cork, Galway and Belfast IME. VASTLY superior to BE, like night and day difference in quality.

* I've also never heard anything but good things about JJK too, but I've yet to have the pleasure to use that service.

DC are the weird odd man out amongst private operators. They somehow seem to have gotten away with a monopoly on some of their routes and the resulting lack of quality shows. Monopoly IME is never good, doesn't matter if public or private, the customer always ends up suffering.

I'm from Cork but moved to Kilkenny last year. Gobus are fantastic. Aircoach are good too (prefer Gobus though). I used Citylink a lot between Cork and Galway when I lived in Galway and again no complaints. I use JJ Kavanaghs to get from Kilkenny to Dublin (or the train). I refuse to use Dublin Coaches service from Kilkenny to Dublin. I can't drive so I'm stuck with Dublin Coach to get to and from Cork. They are the absolute pits! They're always late, there's been 3 breakdowns since August (no other inter city coach I've ever been on has broken down) and there's been some erratic driving.

road_high

Nigel Fairservice wrote: »

I'm from Cork but moved to Kilkenny last year. Gobus are fantastic. Aircoach are good too (prefer Gobus though). I used Citylink a lot between Cork and Galway when I lived in Galway and again no complaints. I use JJ Kavanaghs to get from Kilkenny to Dublin (or the train). I refuse to use Dublin Coaches service from Kilkenny to Dublin. I can't drive so I'm stuck with Dublin Coach to get to and from Cork. They are the absolute pits! They're always late, there's been 3 breakdowns since August (no other inter city coach I've ever been on has broken down) and there's been some erratic driving.

There a few things in their favour- it is reasonably quick to/from Kilkenny generally 1 hr 40 mins or so depending on the stopover at the Red Cow.
It's cheap and frequent too- I've never not got on/a seat either.
They seem to be doing well on this route, lots of passengers using it. Often queues at the Quay in Dublin and MacDonagh in Kilkenny for it.

I really would not fancy going all the way from Dublin to Cork with them- surely there's a comfort break in Waterford? Because most of the old buses on this route have no toilets (Belfast does). With better buses and slightly better timetable I think they could do extremely well.

end of the road

road_high wrote: »

There a few things in their favour- it is reasonably quick to/from Kilkenny generally 1 hr 40 mins or so depending on the stopover at the Red Cow.
It's cheap and frequent too- I've never not got on/a seat either.
They seem to be doing well on this route, lots of passengers using it. Often queues at the Quay in Dublin and MacDonagh in Kilkenny for it.

I really would not fancy going all the way from Dublin to Cork with them- surely there's a comfort break in Waterford? Because most of the old buses on this route have no toilets (Belfast does). With better buses and slightly better timetable I think they could do extremely well.

tbh i would be surprised if the dublin cork via waterford service would get any through patronage, but you never know i suppose.
i would reccan the journeys are dublin kilkenny, dublin waterford, kilkenny waterford, waterford cork.
i think and it's just a guess, that the service is just a combination of 2 services, dublin waterford and waterford cork, for whatever reason. probably to allow the usage of less vehicles and drivers, i presume dublin cork via waterford isn't a very frequent route?

bk

end of the road wrote: »

tbh i would be surprised if the dublin cork via waterford service would get any through patronage, but you never know i suppose.
i would reccan the journeys are dublin kilkenny, dublin waterford, kilkenny waterford, waterford cork.
i think and it's just a guess, that the service is just a combination of 2 services, dublin waterford and waterford cork, for whatever reason. probably to allow the usage of less vehicles and drivers, i presume dublin cork via waterford isn't a very frequent route?

Spot on. No one would use it between Dublin and Cork. Why spend 4h20 mins doing that when you can do it direct in 3h's with Aircoach/Gobus! It isn't even cheaper.

As you say, it is more about being a stopping service connecting Kilkenny/Waterford with Cork/Dublin on either end.

Nigel Fairservice

bk wrote: »

Spot on. No one would use it between Dublin and Cork. Why spend 4h20 mins doing that when you can do it direct in 3h's with Aircoach/Gobus! It isn't even cheaper.

As you say, it is more about being a stopping service connecting Kilkenny/Waterford with Cork/Dublin on either end.

You'd be surprised. I've seen loads of people get on in Cork and ask for tickets to Dublin. Some of the drivers explain that they'd be better off getting the Aircoach or Gobus (I've still seen people ignore the advice) and other drivers don't bother and just sell them the ticket.

ExoPolitic

bk wrote: »

Spot on. No one would use it between Dublin and Cork. Why spend 4h20 mins doing that when you can do it direct in 3h's with Aircoach/Gobus! It isn't even cheaper.

As you say, it is more about being a stopping service connecting Kilkenny/Waterford with Cork/Dublin on either end.

I've seen some with online tickets doing Red Cow to Cork a few times. I don't envy them!

belfast stephen

punisher5112 wrote: »

That's because they're fighting to make money on it with such competition....

It's why they're constantly putting the new coaches when they get them straight on it.

The belfast route seems to be doing quiet well can be very busy at weekend's with extra coaches needed there are enough people travel between Belfast and Dublin for ulsterbus/BE/ Aircoach and D.C. to get a share of the pie

bk

Nigel Fairservice wrote: »

You'd be surprised. I've seen loads of people get on in Cork and ask for tickets to Dublin. Some of the drivers explain that they'd be better off getting the Aircoach or Gobus (I've still seen people ignore the advice) and other drivers don't bother and just sell them the ticket.

Mad people! I suppose if you were going to the Red Cow, might be handy, but still....

I do have a friend who did something similar. We invited her down to Cork for the Jazz weekend, told her to get the GoBE (as it was at the time), she says she left at x hour, so we said we would meet her when she arrived. The GoBE arrived and no sign of her, we call her and ask where she is, she said she is still on the bus! Turns out she booked the BE x8 rather then the GoBE!

She had just googled for it and the BE had popped up and she booked. No harm in the end, she booked one way back on the GoBE despite having a return on BE.

I suppose a lot of non frequent travellers could similarly end up on BE or DC, depending on how they search and not knowing the options. Poor folks. I hope no one has ever opted to go Citylink Dublin - Galway - Limerick - Cork! :eek:

road_high

Nigel Fairservice wrote: »

You'd be surprised. I've seen loads of people get on in Cork and ask for tickets to Dublin. Some of the drivers explain that they'd be better off getting the Aircoach or Gobus (I've still seen people ignore the advice) and other drivers don't bother and just sell them the ticket.

They do seem to be sticking the “good” buses on the M9 route more lately but I never seem to be lucky enough to get on one, it’s always been the old Setra boneshakers unfortunately

road_high

Nigel Fairservice wrote: »

You'd be surprised. I've seen loads of people get on in Cork and ask for tickets to Dublin. Some of the drivers explain that they'd be better off getting the Aircoach or Gobus (I've still seen people ignore the advice) and other drivers don't bother and just sell them the ticket.

Not tying to lower the tone but if they practically need a comfort break, do people do this in Waterford at whatever hotel it stops at and is there a few minutes stop off there? For four hours plus this has to be a consideration as the old Setras don’t have toilets

devnull

belfast stephen wrote: »

The belfast route seems to be doing quiet well can be very busy at weekend's with extra coaches needed there are enough people travel between Belfast and Dublin for ulsterbus/BE/ Aircoach and D.C. to get a share of the pie

Easy to get customers when you piggy back on someones elses investment running within 5 minutes of them in a way that would never be allowed by a regulator in this country if the route was fully in this country. Aircoach built the market up and they thought they'd have a slice of that now somebody else has done the investment to drum up patronage and bore start-up costs. No time for UK style bus wars.

It would be extremely bad for the industry if Dublin Coach won the war on that particular route because unlike the other operators on the route, Dublin Coach has pretty much threw everything at that corridor whilst having neglected it's patrons on other routes for years with vehicles that are well past their best. Aircoach and most other operators tend to invest in their service as a whole rather than concentrating on one route.

Also lets not forget that Dublin Coach have been prosecuted by the Road Safety Authority in the past which revealed serious and systematic non-compliance with the European Communities (Road Transport)( Working Conditions and Road Safety) Regulations 2008. The RSA also said that Operators in breach of drivers’ hours requirements are also profiting from undercutting compliant operators, which I'm sure you will agree, is not a good thing.

Their staff are happy too, apparently.
https://ie.indeed.com/cmp/Dublin-Coach/reviews

wetoutside19

devnull wrote: »

Easy to get customers when you piggy back on someones elses investment running within 5 minutes of them in a way that would never be allowed by a regulator in this country if the route was fully in this country. Aircoach built the market up and they thought they'd have a slice of that now somebody else has done the investment to drum up patronage and bore start-up costs. No time for UK style bus wars.

It would be extremely bad for the industry if Dublin Coach won the war on that particular route because unlike the other operators on the route, Dublin Coach has pretty much threw everything at that corridor whilst having neglected it's patrons on other routes for years with vehicles that are well past their best. Aircoach and most other operators tend to invest in their service as a whole rather than concentrating on one route.

Also lets not forget that Dublin Coach have been prosecuted by the Road Safety Authority in the past which revealed serious and systematic non-compliance with the European Communities (Road Transport)( Working Conditions and Road Safety) Regulations 2008. The RSA also said that Operators in breach of drivers’ hours requirements are also profiting from undercutting compliant operators, which I'm sure you will agree, is not a good thing.

Their staff are happy too, apparently.
https://ie.indeed.com/cmp/Dublin-Coach/reviews

While I agree that some if their fleet should simply not be on the road I say fair play to Dublin coach on this one. Aircoach are more than happy to play in the unregulated field by using UK registered buses and UK bus drivers on the Dublin Belfast route so it’s a bit rich tacking Dublin coach on their behaviour.

I rather my spending money benefits the Irish state and Irish bus drivers rather than London’s coffers.

punisher5112

wetoutside19 wrote: »

While I agree that some if their fleet should simply not be on the road I say fair play to Dublin coach on this one. Aircoach are more than happy to play in the unregulated field by using UK registered buses and UK bus drivers on the Dublin Belfast route so it’s a bit rich tacking Dublin coach on their behaviour.

I rather my spending money benefits the Irish state and Irish bus drivers rather than London’s coffers.

But Ulster bus runs a service too.
There are trains also...

I wouldn't give DC a cent of my money....

How they are passing cvrt I'd love to know.

Drifter50

punisher5112 wrote: »

But Ulster bus runs a service too.
There are trains also...

I wouldn't give DC a cent of my money....

How they are passing cvrt I'd love to know.

DOE inspections are quite regulated and approach a vehicle from the safety perspective,not from whether its gleaming shiny or new. So long as the safety boxes are ticked, the age or clean condition does`nt count. Not really relevant to the inspector / mechanic

So the Aircoach`s get a daily wash, might be disguising an underlying issue

devnull

wetoutside19 wrote: »

While I agree that some if their fleet should simply not be on the road I say fair play to Dublin coach on this one. Aircoach are more than happy to play in the unregulated field by using UK registered buses and UK bus drivers on the Dublin Belfast route so it’s a bit rich tacking Dublin coach on their behaviour.

I rather my spending money benefits the Irish state and Irish bus drivers rather than London’s coffers.

The route is a cross border route. If your having that argument then people in Belfast could have same argument about not using Dublin coach.

Having depot and drivers based on both sides of the border is very sensible in terms of service recovery and dealing with disruption and you'll find all the revenue if you book a ticket with them is going to the ROI arm.

The Bus Eireann and Ulsterbus route is also a joint operation which is also operationally far easier than having whole service based in one country. With Brexit on the horizon that will be even more the case.

If country of some of vehicles is more important to you than other factors then fair enough. Personally the Road Safety Authority's judgement and other factors would worry me more than that.

devnull

Drifter50 wrote: »

DOE inspections are quite regulated and approach a vehicle from the safety perspective,not from whether its gleaming shiny or new. So long as the safety boxes are ticked, the age or clean condition does`nt count. Not really relevant to the inspector / mechanic

So the Aircoach`s get a daily wash, might be disguising an underlying issue

Who are Dublin Coach vehicles maintained by? Most of the work on aircoach vehicles is done by Irish commercials like most Volvo customers in Ireland. Aircoach only do minor stuff themselves.

punisher5112

Drifter50 wrote: »

DOE inspections are quite regulated and approach a vehicle from the safety perspective,not from whether its gleaming shiny or new. So long as the safety boxes are ticked, the age or clean condition does`nt count. Not really relevant to the inspector / mechanic

So the Aircoach`s get a daily wash, might be disguising an underlying issue

I'm not talking about washing or scratches....

They don't turn the setras off or other ones as they most likely won't start again, spewing smoke and toxic fumes everywhere especially when others are around and other buses etc where the fumes are drawn in.... 1st hand experience here....
Drivers are quite poor and I doubt they get any training as they only hire those with a licence and CPC.

The buses I see have parts missing, bits sticking out, duct tape holding panels shut, rear engine covers either ready to fall or or open, lights on many not working, interior in bits seen from photos as haven't ever been on one, comments from passengers of noises and bangs while driving along....

To be honest their safety systems in place and maintenance are either obsolete or poor at best....

The owners model is get routes and eventually sell up as he has done so in the past with aircoach.

The coaches he has purchased are end of life as one only has to see the industrial estate where their base is....

Obviously running at cheapest possible model which in my view brings standards down unless he has competition as we are well aware with the Belfast route as you won't see anything older then 2016 on it and no way would they put a 2004 setra clapped out or the UK imported end of life coaches.

I'd actually love to see the actual genuine mileage on these.

punisher5112

devnull wrote: »

Who are Dublin Coach vehicles maintained by? Most of the work on aircoach vehicles is done by Irish commercials like most Volvo customers in Ireland. They only do minor stuff themselves.

That's because aircoach has a contract with them.

Most are Merc that DC are getting so I'd say their supplier for them and the older stuff id say is in house....

wetoutside19

devnull wrote: »

The route is a cross border route. If your having that argument then people in Belfast could have same argument about not using Dublin coach.

And Im sure people of belfast who want to support their local economy / give their fellow countrymen jobs will do so and I take my hat off to them.

devnull wrote: »

Having depot and drivers based on both sides of the border is very sensible in terms of service recovery and dealing with disruption

I work at the airport, I have never seen a ROI registered aircoach operating this route over the last few years, unless you know otherwise then your argument is null and void as this route is 100% serviced from their UK company even during times of disruption. And Volvo truck and bus garages are don't restrict the vehicles they operate on to only in country registrations meaning a ROI registration can rock into Volvo NI and vice versa.

devnull wrote: »

If country of some of vehicles is more important to you than other factors then fair enough. Personally the Road Safety Authority's judgement and other factors would worry me more than that.

Again your argument for this route is null and void, as you are so fond of stating DC put their new coaches on this route. I clearly stated I think some of their older fleet should not be on the road.

devnull wrote: »

and you'll find all the revenue if you book a ticket with them is going to the ROI arm.

Regarding revenue going to ROI arm, that is due to VAT rules, its not at the discretion of the bus operator. I am sure the UK company operating the coaches and employing the drivers will be paid a service charge. I'm also talking about driver pay, driver social insurance, employment etc etc.



Look all I am doing is countering your argument that DC are playing unfair which you seem fond of bringing up without reference to Aircoach also taking advantage of the route being cross border to have an advantage with costs. Gobus / Kavanagh etc wont touch this route because of the advantages that aircoach can get from operating UK based coaches and drivers on this route. Please at least recognize this part of my argument.

devnull

wetoutside19 wrote: »

And Im sure people of belfast who want to support their local economy / give their fellow countrymen jobs will do so and I take my hat off to them.

Belfast is part of the UK, no matter how much me or you think it should be part of Ireland, it doesn't change the fact that Belfast right now is part of the UK and Aircoach have provided jobs for staff there, just like they do in Ireland.

I work at the airport, I have never seen a ROI registered aircoach operating this route over the last few years, unless you know otherwise then your argument is null and void as this route is 100% serviced from their UK company even during times of disruption.

I was on one in December and a couple of other times last year and have seen ROI vehicles on the service a good number of times. So therefore my argument is not null and void but yours is misleading, incorrect and doesn't stand up to scrutiny

Just a few examples:
https://flickr.com/photos/75694280@N02/48793192131/
https://flickr.com/photos/75694280@N02/48947755942/
https://flickr.com/photos/75694280@N02/33333072908/
https://flickr.com/photos/75694280@N02/33665503048/
https://flickr.com/photos/sheffield-transport-photography/31838860507/

And Volvo truck and bus garages are don't restrict the vehicles they operate on to only in country registrations meaning a ROI registration can rock into Volvo NI and vice versa.

Nobody said they do, but if you have a breakdown or a delay, it's far better to have depot facilities with coaches and drivers either side of the border rather than having to send a coach all the way to Belfast from Dublin, when a vehicle breaks down in Belfast. It results in better outcomes for customers.

Again your argument for this route is null and void, as you are so fond of stating DC put their new coaches on this route. I clearly stated I think some of their older fleet should not be on the road.

I hardly think that the fact that a well known bus operator in this country has been up before the RSA and found guilty of tacograph breaches as well as drivers not taking their rest periods is something that can be just brushed asid e and considered to be null and void and instead some anti British feeling is more important. If it came to putting my loved ones on a British coach or an operator who has been found guilty of road safety offences, I wouldn't chose the later.

Regarding revenue going to ROI arm, that is due to VAT rules, its not at the discretion of the bus operator. I am sure the UK company operating the coaches and employing the drivers will be paid a service charge. I'm also talking about driver pay, driver social insurance, employment etc etc.

Do you think that it is anything much different to what is happening on other cross boarder services, such as the servie operated by Ulsterbus and Bus Eirann jointly, or the enterprise service operated jointly by Northern Ireland Railways and Irish Rail? This is the very nature of companies operating cross border, some will have some staff in one company in one country and some in another for all sorts of reasons. I've never really had a big problem with it but I've never been one to be hugely anti British either, even if I am pro-Irish.

Look all I am doing is countering your argument that DC are playing unfair which you seem fond of bringing up without reference to Aircoach also taking advantage of the route being cross border to have an advantage with costs. Gobus / Kavanagh etc wont touch this route because of the advantages that aircoach can get from operating UK based coaches and drivers on this route. Please at least recognize this part of my argument.

Of course nobody else will touch the route because there is already a massive supply on that route, two coaches an hour from BE/UB, a train service, a coach every hour from Dublin Coach and Aircoach, there simply is not the demand for another service and any newcomer would quickly see themselves get eaten alive by the current operators on that route.

Dublin Coach themselves based much of their initial strategy on heavily below cost pricing, free or cheap tickets and hoping to gain customers that walked up to Glengall Street who were looking to travel with Aircoach. That kind of strategy is not allowed under rules within the ROI because the NTA believe that head to head running from the same stops at virtually the same time is not deisrable, which I would happen to agree with.

The ironic thing is that the only reason either of them are stopping at Glengall street is because Aircoach were believed to have taken Translink to court to get access to that location, which by all means was said to be a long, drawn out battle that went on for a long time.

belfast stephen

wetoutside19 wrote: »

While I agree that some if their fleet should simply not be on the road I say fair play to Dublin coach on this one. Aircoach are more than happy to play in the unregulated field by using UK registered buses and UK bus drivers on the Dublin Belfast route so it’s a bit rich tacking Dublin coach on their behaviour.

I rather my spending money benefits the Irish state and Irish bus drivers rather than London’s coffers.

The northern ireland Reg coaches on Belfast route are based in belfast and have northen ireland legal Adress and is staffed by drivers from belfast nothing wrong with aircoach doing that

Also Dublin based air coaches have and do appear on the belfast route covering for break downs

belfast stephen

devnull wrote: »

Belfast is part of the UK, no matter how much me or you think it should be part of Ireland, it doesn't change the fact that Belfast right now is part of the UK and Aircoach have provided jobs for staff there, just like they do in Ireland.



I was on one in December and a couple of other times last year and have seen ROI vehicles on the service a good number of times. So therefore my argument is not null and void but yours is misleading, incorrect and doesn't stand up to scrutiny

Just a few examples:
https://flickr.com/photos/75694280@N02/48793192131/
https://flickr.com/photos/75694280@N02/48947755942/
https://flickr.com/photos/75694280@N02/33333072908/
https://flickr.com/photos/75694280@N02/33665503048/
https://flickr.com/photos/sheffield-transport-photography/31838860507/



Nobody said they do, but if you have a breakdown or a delay, it's far better to have depot facilities with coaches and drivers either side of the border rather than having to send a coach all the way to Belfast from Dublin, when a vehicle breaks down in Belfast. It results in better outcomes for customers.



I hardly think that the fact that a well known bus operator in this country has been up before the RSA and found guilty of tacograph breaches as well as drivers not taking their rest periods is something that can be just brushed asid e and considered to be null and void and instead some anti British feeling is more important. If it came to putting my loved ones on a British coach or an operator who has been found guilty of road safety offences, I wouldn't chose the later.



Do you think that it is anything much different to what is happening on other cross boarder services, such as the servie operated by Ulsterbus and Bus Eirann jointly, or the enterprise service operated jointly by Northern Ireland Railways and Irish Rail? This is the very nature of companies operating cross border, some will have some staff in one company in one country and some in another for all sorts of reasons. I've never really had a big problem with it but I've never been one to be hugely anti British either, even if I am pro-Irish.



Of course nobody else will touch the route because there is already a massive supply on that route, two coaches an hour from BE/UB, a train service, a coach every hour from Dublin Coach and Aircoach, there simply is not the demand for another service and any newcomer would quickly see themselves get eaten alive by the current operators on that route.

Dublin Coach themselves based much of their initial strategy on heavily below cost pricing, free tickets and hoping to gain customers that walked up to Glengall Street who were looking to travel with Aircoach. That kind of strategy is not allowed under rules within the ROI because the NTA believe that head to head running from the same stops at virtually the same time is not deisrable, which I would happen to agree with.

The ironic thing is that the only reason either of them are stopping at Glengall street is because Aircoach were believed to have taken Translink to court to get access to that location, which by all means was said to be a long, drawn out battle that went on for a long time.

Aircoach don't own the stop in Glengall street so dublin coach can use it

devnull

belfast stephen wrote: »

Aircoach don't own the stop in Glengall street so dublin coach can use it

That's extreme oversimplification.

Aircoach tried for years to stop in the Europa but Translink and the Department of infrastructure were not having any of it and there were lots of speeches about how they were not stopping Aircoach from stopping there, followed by words like but, however and various reasons why it hasn't happened yet.

As you may be aware, Aircoach had enough and went to the Office of Fair Trading on the basis that the powers that be might be breaking EU competition law, which was highlighted in the press. Some time after this and just before Aircoach started their non stop service, it was quite widely reported in the trade that Aircoach had won a case which meant they had to be given access.

At this point Translink stopped using Glengall Street altogether for it's own services and the powers that be allowed Aircoach to stop there, as technically it is considered part of the Europa. Since Aircoach had won this case, they were hardly likely to be able to stop Dublin Coach from stopping there also, as Dublin Coach would just point to the Aircoach case as prescident.

So it's true that Aircoach don't own the stop, but what they did meant that it became possible for privates to stop there which it probably never would have been possible since you can't imagine that the powers that be there would ever just welcome anyone in with open arms of their own choice, if they were willing to do so, there'd be no reason for Aircoach to take action in the first place.

Drifter50

devnull wrote: »

Who are Dublin Coach vehicles maintained by? Most of the work on aircoach vehicles is done by Irish commercials like most Volvo customers in Ireland. Aircoach only do minor stuff themselves.

Fairly clear that its their own staff. If you take a look around their depots you`ll see gearboxes, axles, various carcases of coaches etc etc

d51984

New double deck plaxton elite coaches on way for Belfast run. This will cascade the Belfast coaches down and hopefully withdraw all the setras. They need a few more new units for the Portlaoise route though. Would single deck coaches work on this route?

devnull

d51984 wrote: »

New double deck plaxton elite coaches on way for Belfast run. This will cascade the Belfast coaches down and hopefully withdraw all the setras. They need a few more new units for the Portlaoise route though. Would single deck coaches work on this route?

The allocations for the new vehicles were never going to be any other way really though, were they?