Heavyweight Boxing

selectamatic

If Ruiz got knocked down once he could be knocked down again. Recovering quickly from one knockdown early in a fight is easier than recovering later in a fight or after a 2nd or 3rd knockdown.

Talking in absolute terms doesn't work for boxing and it certainly doesn't work when talking about the bigger fella's.

squinn2912

nacho libre wrote: »

I don't see how he can correct this flaw, his lack of head movement has been a glaring weakness all along, he got away with it up until he faced someone who had the hand speed to get to him, and also the punch resistance to withstand his punches. Ruiz, after he was knocked down, had steady legs, he also took a big shot a few seconds after getting back. I think this indicates, even if Joshua stays behind the jab, Ruiz will able to take his punches and eventually lands on Joshua putting him in a world of trouble again.

Just to clarify I meant the most important aspect is mentality not head movement. Of course that’s not good either. Joshua fought very badly and still had Ruiz in big trouble. He went for the kill and Ruiz threw some swings and hit the jackpot. Fight changed a lot. Just how I see it I reckon Joshua in 8 rounds for the rematch

squinn2912

I see Joe is at it. He's claiming that Ruiz wouldn't even spar with him. I'm really looking forward to him getting crumpled up. Would love someone like Allen or Price to do it.

I've been considering the Joshua Ruiz rematch. I really don't think we're going to get the same fight, no matter where it is. I can't see Joshua being as hittable again, I think he will be cagier. His timing will be better and he will have bounce. He had none of that last time out even before the knockdowns put things wild. David Coldwell reckons he was nervous and that that explains the entire thing. He's said himself that camp was perfect. Not the first big star to travel to USA and come undone.

yourdeadwright

squinn2912 wrote: »

I see Joe is at it. He's claiming that Ruiz wouldn't even spar with him. I'm really looking forward to him getting crumpled up. Would love someone like Allen or Price to do it.

I've been considering the Joshua Ruiz rematch. I really don't think we're going to get the same fight, no matter where it is. I can't see Joshua being as hittable again, I think he will be cagier. His timing will be better and he will have bounce. He had none of that last time out even before the knockdowns put things wild. David Coldwell reckons he was nervous and that that explains the entire thing. He's said himself that camp was perfect. Not the first big star to travel to USA and come undone.

Was this the first fight after he went Vegan ? or was he Vegan before ?

Also he changed how he prepared for this fight,
Hearn was saying fight week pre fight that he didn't push himself in training like before but it was planned because before he felt drained and flat fight week but this time he was full of energy and still sparring,

Iv seen numerous guys in the past try this and nearly all have said even though they felt better than ever it didn't help on the night of the fight,
Because mentally you hadn't put yourself through the ringer and you needed to feel that pain to push through in the fight IF it gets tuff, You need the kill or be killed midset ,


In fact McGregor said the same about Diaz 1, because he didn't have to cut weight training was never mentally taxing enough to put him in the kill or be killed mind set,

squinn2912

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Was this the first fight after he went Vegan ? or was he Vegan before ?

Also he changed how he prepared for this fight,
Hearn was saying fight week pre fight that he didn't push himself in training like before but it was planned because before he felt drained and flat fight week but this time he was full of energy and still sparring,

Iv seen numerous guys in the past try this and nearly all have said even though they felt better than ever it didn't help on the night of the fight,
Because mentally you hadn't put yourself through the ringer and you needed to feel that pain to push through in the fight IF it gets tuff, You need the kill or be killed midset ,


In fact McGregor said the same about Diaz 1, because he didn't have to cut weight training was never mentally taxing enough to put him in the kill or be killed mind set,

Good point there you need to come through hell in training in any sport.

Joshua vegan? Never knew!!

Check out this from Bob

ðŸ§
#Arum🗣 “Ruiz is a pretty good fighter. He has fast hands and quick feet. But he has absolutely no punch.
He was in with a lot of guys who couldn’t spell fight, and he beat them, but he couldn’t knock them out.

The fact he knocked out a fighter like Joshua, who I had seen on television, and in person against Joseph Parker, it shocked me.

“Andy Ruiz is a lovely guy, but he’s no Wladimir Klitschko. If Joshua was able to survive Klitschko, who can punch, and knock him out, how the hell does Ruiz beat him...?

Unless it wasn’t Joshua in the ring. Now that’s something that can happen. Maybe he didn’t train hard enough. Maybe he suffered an injury. When something like this happens, there may never be that Joshua again.

(An immediate rematch)...It’s the dumbest thing from the standpoint of a young fighter.. who you want to bring back and recover. The idea you’d put him back in with Ruiz is insane. Give him some fights.

Forget about the titles. The titles will always be there. Joshua is a great personality. He shouldn’t go back with Andy Ruiz. Any real boxing guy would tell you that. Unfortunately, his promoter is not a boxing guy.”

- Bob Arum.

yourdeadwright

Ye he is 10p% Vegan now but not sure hoe long its been like that ,

On Ruiz isnt a huge puncher by any strecth but i wonder has he fought many who come right at him like AJ , If you back off a counter puncher he isnt going to knock you out but walkimg him down while throwing like AJ did he mite just catch you

Too Tough To Die

I've heard excuses made after fights, but never so many for one fighter.

ASOT

Lads the fellas 280lbs if he connects he's going to hurt you regardless.

squinn2912

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

I've heard excuses made after fights, but never so many for one fighter.

Not sure about that. Reasons I’d say more than excuses. On Ruiz’ power that’s ridiculous any decent hw can bang you spark out

Ultimate Seduction

squinn2912 wrote: »

Not sure about that. Reasons I’d say more than excuses. On Ruiz’ power that’s ridiculous any decent hw can bang you spark out

The reason is Ruiz is a better boxer. Everything else is an excuse.

squinn2912

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

The reason is Ruiz is a better boxer. Everything else is an excuse.

I don’t agree. I can’t stand Joshua but I think he wins that rematch.

Too Tough To Die

squinn2912 wrote: »

Not sure about that. Reasons I’d say more than excuses. On Ruiz’ power that’s ridiculous any decent hw can bang you spark out

Reasons, excuses, all the same at this point. Concussed a week before the fight. Eased off training too much a week before the fight. Panic attack before the fight. Concussed in round 3. Poor corner work. Vegan diet. Ramadan. Stricter testing. No temporary use exemptions.

As mentioned a few posts before this, he came up against a better boxer. If you're going to come up against a better boxer, you better make your very significant physical advantages count. AJ couldn't do this, hence the loss. No other reasons needed.

selectamatic

Not one of these reasons or excuses have come for Joshua though. He took his loss and accepted it.

In a high profile shocking upset there will always be people and pundits clamouring to explain how it happened, It's human nature.

For the life of me I can't see how this is AJ's fault though.

Ultimate Seduction

squinn2912 wrote: »

I don’t agree. I can’t stand Joshua but I think he wins that rematch.

Fair enough. He might well KO Ruiz.

Anyone know what way the scorecards were before the finish? Ruiz 5 or 6 up surley?

ASOT

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Fair enough. He might well KO Ruiz.

Anyone know what way the scorecards were before the finish? Ruiz 5 or 6 up surley?

Two had Ruiz 57-56 one had Joshua 57-56

Ultimate Seduction

ASOT wrote: »

Two had Ruiz 57-56 one had Joshua 57-56

Never suprised with scorecards in boxing . That is shocking though. Or can I just not judge a fight? I didn't score it but looked to me Ruiz was dominating almost every round

normanoffside

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Never suprised with scorecards in boxing . That is shocking though. Or can I just not judge a fight? I didn't score it but looked to me Ruiz was dominating almost every round

This has already been discussed. AJ won 1,2 and 5 clearly enough. Ruiz won 3,4 and 6 putting him a point up with the extra knockdown in the 3rd.

It was all irrelevant in the end though as only half the 12 rounds were scored.

eagle eye

Just to add to that, it's a 10 point must scoring system so even though Ruiz got knocked down in the third he has to get 10 points for the round and even though AJ lost the round and got knocked down twice he still got 8 for that round as one knockdown each is taken away.

The Nal

On Sky Atlantic tonight

squinn2912

Watched the documentary about Buster Douglas and Tyson last night. Amazing performance from Buster Douglas. I do feel that the count was long and he wasn't making it but to be fair he was listening to the numbers. He was 42/1. In that fight Douglas was just better than Tyson. He was properly trained and in shape and on the night was more than motivated which was questionable in other fights. Do you folks think that a rematch would have brought about a similar result?

Ultimate Seduction

Saw a video of Tyson working the heavey bag the other day I reckon he'd still give a few of today's heaveys a go

normanoffside

squinn2912 wrote: »

Watched the documentary about Buster Douglas and Tyson last night. Amazing performance from Buster Douglas. I do feel that the count was long and he wasn't making it but to be fair he was listening to the numbers. He was 42/1. In that fight Douglas was just better than Tyson. He was properly trained and in shape and on the night was more than motivated which was questionable in other fights. Do you folks think that a rematch would have brought about a similar result?

I think the difference is that Douglas was in the shape of his life against Tyson and Tyson hasn’t prepared properly.

Ruiz wasn’t in great shape (even by his own standards) and AJ seems to have been as fit and well prepared as ever.

I definitely think AJ’s lack of activity is holding him back though. Seems to be on a schedule of 1 fight every 8 or 9 months. When he was knocking people out for fun he was fighting every few months.

squinn2912

A motivated Tyson would of course. Lewis too. Wlad or Vitalai.

That's a true comparison about Tyson/Joshua. Tyson though was in fine shape just not plugged in at all. It's hard to say if Joshua was plugged in or not but he certainly wasn't himself. If the success and fortune doesn't go to Ruiz' head and the same fighter turns up in November or December then it'll be interesting to see the outcome. Tyson never even considered Douglas could potentially beat him and Joshua thought the same of Ruiz. But after the fight he wasn't all that shocked either. It's all very peculiar.

yourdeadwright

squinn2912 wrote: »

Watched the documentary about Buster Douglas and Tyson last night. Amazing performance from Buster Douglas. I do feel that the count was long and he wasn't making it but to be fair he was listening to the numbers. He was 42/1. In that fight Douglas was just better than Tyson. He was properly trained and in shape and on the night was more than motivated which was questionable in other fights. Do you folks think that a rematch would have brought about a similar result?

Tyson won plenty of boxing matches but her never won a "FIGHT" , Once he didn't blow you away or you put pressure on him you won ,
That's not a dig as very few could put pressure on him but he was your typically "bully" he'd absolute wreck you if he got on top but if you stuck in there with him and didn't let him feel like the Alpha he would give in before you ,

Again you had to been a hell of a fighter to put the pressure on him in the first place,

I feel held have blown Douglas away or Douglas would win late on again, very hard to tell which one ,

squinn2912

Just seen that Joshua has split with McCracken. Nothing concrete yet but it wouldn't surprise me. He definitely needs a fresh voice. I wouldn't blame McCracken for his loss at all but he didn't have all that much to offer. What do you really say though when your fighter is on spagetti legs.

yourdeadwright

squinn2912 wrote: »

A motivated Tyson would of course. Lewis too. Wlad or Vitalai.

That's a true comparison about Tyson/Joshua. Tyson though was in fine shape just not plugged in at all. It's hard to say if Joshua was plugged in or not but he certainly wasn't himself. If the success and fortune doesn't go to Ruiz' head and the same fighter turns up in November or December then it'll be interesting to see the outcome. Tyson never even considered Douglas could potentially beat him and Joshua thought the same of Ruiz. But after the fight he wasn't all that shocked either. It's all very peculiar.

Its crazy to think Mike was 23 basically a kid when that fight took place, that would be unheard of today , I think Buster was 30

squinn2912

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Tyson won plenty of boxing matches but her never won a "FIGHT" , Once he didn't blow you away or you put pressure on him you won ,
That's not a dig as very few could put pressure on him but he was your typically "bully" he'd absolute wreck you if he got on top but if you stuck in there with him and didn't let him feel like the Alpha he would give in before you ,

Again you had to been a hell of a fighter to put the pressure on him in the first place,

I feel held have blown Douglas away or Douglas would win late on again, very hard to tell which one ,

A lot of people make that point but it just doesn't sit with me. Tyson had so many disadvantages being so much shorter. When fights wore on his speed became less of a factor. The intimidation tactic really worked for him though. I'd love to have seen him fight Lewis in his prime. I think different story.

Also 5/6 losses came after Douglas and a 5 year absence from the ring. Whatever the reasons he lost out on his best years.

squinn2912

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Its crazy to think Mike was 23 basically a kid when that fight took place, that would be unheard of today , I think Buster was 30

Yea i think 29 but that's so right. He was a freak!

yourdeadwright

squinn2912 wrote: »

A lot of people make that point but it just doesn't sit with me. Tyson had so many disadvantages being so much shorter. When fights wore on his speed became less of a factor. The intimidation tactic really worked for him though. I'd love to have seen him fight Lewis in his prime. I think different story.

Also 5/6 losses came after Douglas and a 5 year absence from the ring. Whatever the reasons he lost out on his best years.

I feel he was always to small for Lewis but we will never know ,

Some good interviews around with Teddy Altas who knew Mike form day one ,

He has some great insight into the real Mike, Although some people claim Teddy holds a grudge against Mike but still very interesting to hear from someone who seen Mike grow up

squinn2912

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I feel he was always to small for Lewis but we will never know ,

Some good interviews around with Teddy Altas who knew Mike form day one ,

He has some great insight into the real Mike, Although some people claim Teddy holds a grudge against Mike but still very interesting to hear from someone who seen Mike grow up

I'm very biased because I was always rooting against Lewis! But McCall and Rachman were both a good deal shorter than Lewis and they gave him the trouble. I think he was more comfortable with bigger guys. Could work out his timing better with them. Even Briggs caused him a few problems.

I've heard people refer to Atlas than see the clips myself but yea there must be something in that. I must dig out a few. Think I'll try to see the Ali programme tonight I recorded it last night.