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Heavyweight Boxing

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    #362
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,841 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    Totally agree with this. As long as he trims off the excess and builds up to a camp then there's nothing to suggest he can't fight in the summer. It will be against a very limited opponent so he should get 3/4 rounds in and then kick on. Sounds simple


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    #363
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,756 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    squinn2912 wrote: »
    Totally agree with this. As long as he trims off the excess and builds up to a camp then there's nothing to suggest he can't fight in the summer. It will be against a very limited opponent so he should get 3/4 rounds in and then kick on. Sounds simple
    Ye that's what the plan should be but I wouldn't be surprised with Tyson if he falls off the wagon you can never tell what he's going to do, Although id love to see him fight AJ be such a big fight ,


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    #364
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,673 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    The Nal wrote: »

    Almost as annoying as Ireland's ole, ole ole ole at every fooking sporting event!


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    #365
    normanoffside
    Registered Users Posts: 9,987 ✭✭✭normanoffside


    squinn2912 wrote: »
    What's the source for that? Still looks a bit heavier than then!

    I wouldn't take what Tyson says as gospel. I heard hughie a few weeks ago that Tyson was down to 22 Stone.

    From looking at him I'd say the truth is somewhere in between but he looks as good as he normally does before starting camp. Remember the press conferences before the Klitschko fight was announced he was well north of 20 stone in those


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    #366
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,841 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    Yea that's true but look what happened right after that. Between other fights he never looked as bad. He has a short window if one at all left to be at peak. Then that will be that.


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    #367
    normanoffside
    Registered Users Posts: 9,987 ✭✭✭normanoffside


    squinn2912 wrote: »
    Yea that's true but look what happened right after that. Between other fights he never looked as bad. He has a short window if one at all left to be at peak. Then that will be that.

    He has definitely shifted a lot of weight but I reckon he was closer to 30st than 25st when he was at his worst about 6 months ago.
    He looks like he is in good enough shape (by his standards) to be starting a proper camp now and could get into peak shape in 3-4 months.

    If he is gonna take a few easy come back fights I could see him fighting those n shorter time frame at between 19-20 stone as he has done plenty of times in the past.


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    #368
    thegrowreport
    Registered Users Posts: 72 ✭✭thegrowreport


    TBH I can't see Tyson Fury coming back or if he does manage it I reckon the fire is gone from his belly and doubt he will do much if he does manage to fight again. Wish him all the best in his efforts but not sure if he can do it!

    Speaking of the HW's - Deontay Wilder is a guy I have begun to have a new found respect for - had previously dismissed him as a wild style guy who had milled his way to the top. Have been watching some of his fights and I'm starting to think he's better than I had given him credit for! Love to see him fight AJ and see what happens!:eek:


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    #369
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,841 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    thegrowreport wrote: »
    TBH I can't see Tyson Fury coming back or if he does manage it I reckon the fire is gone from his belly and doubt he will do much if he does manage to fight again. Wish him all the best in his efforts but not sure if he can do it!

    Speaking of the HW's - Deontay Wilder is a guy I have begun to have a new found respect for - had previously dismissed him as a wild style guy who had milled his way to the top. Have been watching some of his fights and I'm starting to think he's better than I had given him credit for! Love to see him fight AJ and see what happens!:eek:

    Hard to know with Fury but he's always had a half-serious joker aura about himself. I suppose that was ok against the easier opponents he had excepting Wlad of course. Then he had true grit. I could see him rise to the occasion if he can keep active.
    Interesting point about wilder. Well know a lot more about him next week. If he does it against this guy then that's a step further along the line. drug cheats have held him back a bit


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    #370
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    What do ye think about Wilder v Luiz? I haven't seen anything of the latter but he doesn't have many notable names on his resume? Still those Cubans are slippery and he the lad can box by all accounts. It's 2/1 for Wilder to win by stoppage in the later rounds.


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    #371
    normanoffside
    Registered Users Posts: 9,987 ✭✭✭normanoffside


    FTA69 wrote: »
    What do ye think about Wilder v Luiz? I haven't seen anything of the latter but he doesn't have many notable names on his resume? Still those Cubans are slippery and he the lad can box by all accounts. It's 2/1 for Wilder to win by stoppage in the later rounds.

    I think wilder will step up to the mark and stop him. Luiz has been less than impressive of late.
    It’s a bit of an acid test for wilder yet Luiz has not really faced any top opposition himself to be able to compare when Wilder wins or loses. I’d rather see Wilder fight the likes of Pulev or Povetkin as then we would know where we stand with him.


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    #372
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,841 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    I agree with the argument above. Ortiz is cashing in during the autumn of his career and at 38 this is his big chance. Pulev is in a similar position but yes at least he's been in with the best during his own prime. Strange that he hasn't even been in the conversation since pulling out of the AJ fight.
    When you consider the HW division there's a but after every credible fighter's name but it is becoming more compelling


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    #373
    thegrowreport
    Registered Users Posts: 72 ✭✭thegrowreport


    Agreed- think Wilder will stop him late or points victory. Then hopefully set up a big fight with AJ>


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    #374
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,841 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    I don't even know if I see it going that long. I would question Ortiz fitness and workrate. Even in fights where he's won by ko he's looked untidy and cumbersome. Wilder for all his faults always shows up in shape


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    #375
    Morrison J
    Registered Users Posts: 3,855 ✭✭✭Morrison J


    I can't understand why that fight is happening at all. All seems a bit fishy. Ortiz is a good fighter with great pedigree that is a genuine threat at the elite level but brings zero money to the table and thus no upside to fighting him. Wilder who has been protected his whole career and is 1 or 2 fights off the life changing payday a Joshua fight brings, had every chance to avoid him with the failed drug test but is for some reason giving him another chance. Wilder's camp must surely know something.

    I think Ortiz is easily the better boxer but just think he must be absolutely shot to bits and Wilder's team must know it. There's no other way this fight happens. Don't think I'll be betting tbh.


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    #376
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,841 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    Ha! If it's that sure a thing would that not encourage you to bed more so?
    Valid point but there's more than enough dishonesty going around and that extends to AJ fights as well. I'd imagine Ortiz will offer as much resistance as Charles Martin anyhow though tbf he was the champion at the time, laughable as that is.
    I don't know if that's totally fair on wilder. There was never much clamour for a fight against Wlad but at that point things were all tied up. He was for fighting Povetkin in Russia which was hardly likely to be a protected climate for him. Some other defenses were against rubbish but he wouldn't be the only champ to do that. There just might be some merit in the idea that he's avoided. Fury rates him highly and with all the joking aside I like how he commentates on boxing


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    #377
    Morrison J
    Registered Users Posts: 3,855 ✭✭✭Morrison J


    squinn2912 wrote: »
    Ha! If it's that sure a thing would that not encourage you to bed more so?
    Valid point but there's more than enough dishonesty going around and that extends to AJ fights as well. I'd imagine Ortiz will offer as much resistance as Charles Martin anyhow though tbf he was the champion at the time, laughable as that is.
    I don't know if that's totally fair on wilder. There was never much clamour for a fight against Wlad but at that point things were all tied up. He was for fighting Povetkin in Russia which was hardly likely to be a protected climate for him. Some other defenses were against rubbish but he wouldn't be the only champ to do that. There just might be some merit in the idea that he's avoided. Fury rates him highly and with all the joking aside I like how he commentates on boxing

    Apparently Wilder was getting 5 mill for fighting Povetkin. I can see why he took that fight at the time. The risk/reward made sense.

    There's nowhere near the same money in the Ortiz fight and Ortiz at his best is just as dangerous if not more imo. Wilder's career has been meticulously managed since day 1 so they can build him into a big pay day. I just don't think they risk everything they've worked for against a southpaw banger without knowing something. Might be just looking into it too much but I'm very suspicious about this fight to be honest.


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    #378
    akelly02
    Registered Users Posts: 3,133 ✭✭✭akelly02


    Wilder will beat Ortiz. 8/11 for the KO is stealing money. Ortiz wouldnt get 12 rounds with an oxygen tank on his back , he is not in shape. Wilder is in the best shape of all the heavys, and he hits the hardest.

    He might not have the best technique, but his straight right ,which is the one that KO's everybody, seems fairly on point to me.


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    #379
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,756 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    squinn2912 wrote: »
    I agree with the argument above. Ortiz is cashing in during the autumn of his career and at 38 this is his big chance. Pulev is in a similar position but yes at least he's been in with the best during his own prime. Strange that he hasn't even been in the conversation since pulling out of the AJ fight.
    When you consider the HW division there's a but after every credible fighter's name but it is becoming more compelling
    Hard one to call due to neither really having fought anyone and also the fact that Ortiz may be a different man if he is off the Juice,
    I think Ortiz will give Wilder his toughest fight to date ,If Ortiz retains his composer and fires straight shots he may well beat Wilder to the punch,
     Its time to see if Wilder's wild style works against guys who are not cans,


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    #380
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,841 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    I can see why you're saying that Morrison but a few thoughts come to mind. Ortiz' record doesn't read especially impressive. Other than demolishing Jennings a couple of years ago there's not much there but that can\t be counted out - Jennings had just taken Klit the distance. But a bit like Haye did hard to measure it. In addition to that it is high time that Wilder took some sort of a step up. Spilzka (poor spelling) had a bit about him and he was looking good against Wilder, at least he came to give it a go, until that unmerciful ko came. 
    Good point there - I don't think Ortiz has the condition but if he's good on the counter punch then he could cause some problems. 
    YDW yep the juice effect could be a telling one. At least Wilder is and has been clean… although nothing would surprise me about any of them. If a scandal came out in years to come about governing bodies etc in boxing similar to the cycling one I wouldn't be shocked. I feel a bit torn on Wilder's style or lack thereof. He looks at his worst and clumsiest when he has an opponent on the verge of the ko and he's going in for the kill. He hasn't taken any shots and for all the detractors he doesn't seem easy to tag. Level of opponent could be relevant here.
    All in all I'm looking forward to it if nothing else then it narrows things down another bit. Talk of AJ taking on Millar if he wins against Parker. For me that's bringing in a lower level bum somewhere he doesn't belong. If they both win then I want to see them man up and take on one another. If Povetkin were to be involved I'd settle for that but after that it's just for the sake of it.


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    #381
    ThunderCat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,385 ✭✭✭ThunderCat


    akelly02 wrote: »
    Wilder will beat Ortiz. 8/11 for the KO is stealing money. Ortiz wouldnt get 12 rounds with an oxygen tank on his back , he is not in shape. Wilder is in the best shape of all the heavys, and he hits the hardest.

    He might not have the best technique, but his straight right ,which is the one that KO's everybody, seems fairly on point to me.





    He looks in good shape in this video from a week ago:


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vTe8nl6Ew4


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    #382
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,841 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    Yep he does look to be in better condition but a sluggish mover. Southpaw makes him look more awkward than he is. He has got good hand speed but I'd expect wilder to be much more agile


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    #383
    akelly02
    Registered Users Posts: 3,133 ✭✭✭akelly02


    ThunderCat wrote: »
    He looks in good shape in this video from a week ago:


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vTe8nl6Ew4

    looks in good shape there i must admit , havnt seen him in that sort of nick for a good while


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    #384
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,841 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    Did anyone see the David Price interview on Boxing Social about his upcoming fight with Povetkin? I did rate his chances and I'm still really rooting for him but he's so negative about himself I can't see it happening for him. Shame because I think this is a serious opportunity for him


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    #385
    StringerBell
    Registered Users Posts: 14,175 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    I think Wilder is gonna put Ortiz away with relative ease tbh, it may be a bit of a contest in the early going but I can't see Ortiz winning, or seeing the final bell.

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



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    #386
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,841 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    I think you're right pal and it's a shame. He's always been mentally brittle and that became clear when a first opponent got to him. He was scared of losing vrs TT and that left him paralyzed vrs teper. The fight against Hammar was the worst. He totally froze. Hammar isn't bad but Price should've walked that fight. It's the way he loses, totally empty. In that interview several times his eyes sink away into his face. I pity him he carries a lot on his shoulders. I'd love him to rip Povetkin apart


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    #387
    normanoffside
    Registered Users Posts: 9,987 ✭✭✭normanoffside


    Wilder weighed in at 214lbs. :eek:
    He could make cruiser I'm sure.

    Ortiz 241lbs, his normal weight.


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    #388
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,673 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    214...

    Holy jaysus....


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    #389
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,841 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    That's 6lbs lighter than 3 months ago vrs stiverne surely this is intended? If it is... why?


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    #390
    normanoffside
    Registered Users Posts: 9,987 ✭✭✭normanoffside


    squinn2912 wrote: »
    That's 6lbs lighter than 3 months ago vrs stiverne surely this is intended? If it is... why?

    I'd imagine he is just in tip top shape. The 6lbs won't take away from his power and he'll be light on his feet. It just shows that weight isn't everything and brings back the debate if the top cruisers can beat the top heavies.


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    #391
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,673 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    normanoffside wrote: »
    I'd imagine he is just in tip top shape. The 6lbs won't take away from his power and he'll be light on his feet. It just shows that weight isn't everything and brings back the debate if the top cruisers can beat the top heavies.

    cruisers are not 6 feet 7....

    AJ and Wilder are both big men...height for Wilder and reach for him, with his wow power.

    AJ with height, weight and excellent power..

    Cruisers are not....


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