Heavyweight Boxing

yourdeadwright

NewMan1982 wrote: »

I don’t think AJ has suddenly become weak chinned since Ruiz.

He has come through fights with punchers before. Wlad, Povetkin, Parker, Whyte.

I’d say all of them are bigger punchers than Ruiz.

Perhaps there’s truth to the illness rumours. Perhaps it was Ruiz having faster hands in the exchange’s that none of those other mentioned fighters had.

My point being I don’t think we should all assume Joshua will fold every time he takes a heavy shot.

Wald hurt Aj and if he was younger with gas would have finished him


Povetkin was finished by the time AJ fought him and off the Jesus juice


Parker isn't anywhere near the fighter people think he is, he also accepted pretty early to just go the distance with AJ and never done enough or risked enough to get on the inside , He was happy just to go 12 rounds,


Whyte i'll give ye but he was super green, had a bad shoulder but I think AJ ids just better than him all rounds,


AJ is obviously a world class fighter but I wonder what Ruiz ko has done to him, he reacted terrible any time Ruiz came close the second time ,
The herky jerky reaction whenever it got close showed huge signs of nerves ,

AJ completely outboxed Ruiz no question but watch Ruiz when he was being hit he stays way calmer than AJ, slipping shots and looking comfortable ,

yourdeadwright

For the life of me I don't see how anyone thinks AJ beat's Wilder or Fury ,

I think he has a better chance against Wilder but Wilder still ko him and early,

I think Fury absolutely schools him I really do ,

The Nal

How long is this Dubois fight going to last tomorrow?

walshb

yourdeadwright wrote: »

For the life of me I don't see how anyone thinks AJ beat's Wilder or Fury ,

I think he has a better chance against Wilder but Wilder still ko him and early,

I think Fury absolutely schools him I really do ,

This make no logical sense...

Unless you are so so certain that Wilder finds AJs chin before AJ finds his?

In this type match, no different to another (Hearns v Jackson at 154 lbs), it appears to me that it's the one who lands hard first wins

Maybe you think Wilder's chin will survive an AJ bomb? I don't think it does.

The AJ Fury match......sorry, Fury gets knocked out if AJ finds the chin......so, how on earth can anyone be so certain that he doesn't find it....Fury has been found many times hurt, dropped, wobbled and almost clean knocked out.....AJ has the capability to do the job with one shot, or a clinical type follow up.....

Fury with a solid chin....yes, I understand your confidence here, but his chin is shaky

Thay are all shaky. All three........the illogical stance here is anyone being certain of any of them beating the others......

yourdeadwright

walshb wrote: »

This make no logical sense...

Unless you are so so certain that Wilder finds AJs chin before AJ finds his?

In this type match, no different to another (Hearns v Jackson at 154 lbs), it appears to me that it's the one who lands hard first wins

Maybe you think Wilder's chin will survive an AJ bomb? I don't think it does.

The AJ Fury match......sorry, Fury gets knocked out if AJ finds the chin......so, how on earth can anyone be so certain that he doesn't find it....Fury has been found many times hurt, dropped, wobbled and almost clean knocked out.....AJ has the capability to do the job with one shot, or a clinical type follow up.....

Fury with a solid chin....yes, I understand your confidence here, but his chin is shaky

Thay are all shaky. All three........the illogical stance here is anyone being certain of any of them beating the others......

I don't think AJ lands a bomb before Wilder does its that simple,


AJ gets hit when goes for the kill we have seen it more than once ,In his very last fight he had to box differently against Ruiz because of this , He can not go toe to toe with Wilder or he gets slept its simple,

If he fights Wilder like he just fought Ruiz he also gets sniped and ko'd . Ruiz was in awful shape and couldn't move a t all but still managed to tag Aj a few times, Wilder get to him much easier and good night Vienna,




For Fury I feel he will box rings around AJ he'll be another level than AJ .
I don't AJ will get near him to ko him ,Ye Wilder caught him twice in 12 rounds but that was Fury coming off 3 years out and that is Wilder who merely needs to touch you , AJ would need more than one shot ,


My opinion's and i'll stand by them if they ever fight,
Can there be different outcomes yes of course but I see these as the moest likely ,

walshb

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I don't think AJ lands a bomb before Wilder does its that simple,

I agree here...

But I wouldn't be like you, claiming that anyone who thinks that AJ could get in first is something unimaginable....

I am only slightly confident that Wilder wins by KO before AJ wins by KO...

It's almost a toss up for me....AJ getting in that heavy shot for a KO is a real possibility

What is this toe to toe stuff? Why does he need to go toe to toe to land one heavy shot on Wilder? This is boxing, you can land shots in any scenario. It's one split second moment in the match, where AJ could KO Wilder. Nothing to do with toe to toe, or slugging it out, or whatever else...

If AJ lands hard and clean with a power shot on Wilder, how confident would you be that Wilder, either takes it an survives, or is badly hurt and stopped/KOd?

Big Ears

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Parker isn't anywhere near the fighter people think he is, he also accepted pretty early to just go the distance with AJ and never done enough or risked enough to get on the inside , He was happy just to go 12 rounds,

I think that's very unfair on Parker, the only person who accepted he wasn't.going to fight inside was our old friend Giuseppe, who nearly had a panic attack anytime the fighters came anyway close !

Walshb, you said previously you think Wilder is chinny. What makes you think that considering he stood up to (although was definitely hurt) a barrage of huge bombs from a big hitter like Ortiz.

Also you don't hold much faith in Fury's punch resistance and there's some merit to that, in that he's been dropped several times (and hurt), but his powers of recovery seem to be insane.
I think Joshua would have to hurt him multiple times to beat him, and I think he'd struggle to do that, for me he gets outboxed.

Arguably, Joshua may be the chinniest of the 3 !

yourdeadwright

walshb wrote: »

I agree here...

But I wouldn't be like you, claiming that anyone who thinks that AJ could get in first is something unimaginable....

I am only slightly confident that Wilder wins by KO before AJ wins by KO...

It's almost a toss up for me....AJ getting in that heavy shot for a KO is a real possibility

What is this toe to toe stuff? Why does he need to go toe to toe to land one heavy shot on Wilder? This is boxing, you can land shots in any scenario. It's one split second moment in the match, where AJ could KO Wilder. Nothing to do with toe to toe, or slugging it out, or whatever else...

If AJ lands hard and clean with a power shot on Wilder, how confident would you be that Wilder, either takes it an survives, or is badly hurt and stopped/KOd?

Honestly after getting knocked by Ruiz in the first fight and seeing how careful and how nervous and panicky in close he was I can't for the life of me see him ko Wilder,


When I say toe to toe im talking about AJ's style when he thinks he has hurt someone, he has always ran in and exchanged punches to get them out, He can't do that with Wilder,

walshb

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Honestly after getting knocked by Ruiz in the first fight and seeing how careful and how nervous and panicky in close he was I can't for the life of me see him ko Wilder,


When I say toe to toe im talking about AJ's style when he thinks he has hurt someone, he has always ran in and exchanged punches to get them out, He can't do that with Wilder,

Can you answer what you think happens IF AJ lands a clean hard shot on Wilder. Heavy shot....

walshb

Big Ears wrote: »

Arguably, Joshua may be the chinniest of the 3 !

No argument here....

But my wider point stands....

all three for me seem shaky. Not sure how anyone can be certain of anything.

BTW, Ortiz caught Wilder with some decent shots, but not they type that AJ can land. AJ is heavier handed. Also, Ortiz's follow ups were pretty weak/ineffective...

A good heavy shot from AJ, and I really have a feeling that Wilder is in big trouble......of course, cannot know this until it happens.

Fury is rapidly using up his nine lives.....this powers of recovery angle isn't going to cut it every time......the bottom line is simple: He has not got a solid beard, and he reacts poorly when hit hard.....

Again, AJ hits very hard, but more importantly, is a far more technical and clinical puncher than Wilder. I would be confident that AJ, can both badly hurt, or even KO Fury with one shot, or badly hurt and close the show with a few shots....

That is, for me, the cleanest and fairest assessment of the three of them.

All vulnerable.

NewMan1982

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Wald hurt Aj and if he was younger with gas would have finished him


Povetkin was finished by the time AJ fought him and off the Jesus juice


Parker isn't anywhere near the fighter people think he is, he also accepted pretty early to just go the distance with AJ and never done enough or risked enough to get on the inside , He was happy just to go 12 rounds,


Whyte i'll give ye but he was super green, had a bad shoulder but I think AJ ids just better than him all rounds,


AJ is obviously a world class fighter but I wonder what Ruiz ko has done to him, he reacted terrible any time Ruiz came close the second time ,
The herky jerky reaction whenever it got close showed huge signs of nerves ,

AJ completely outboxed Ruiz no question but watch Ruiz when he was being hit he stays way calmer than AJ, slipping shots and looking comfortable ,

You can use the above logic to **** all over any boxer.

Fury has been put down by much less heavy hitters and had to change his style over it.

Wilder hasn’t fought a power puncher that I know of yet he’s been down too.

Wlad did try to finish Joshua. He was swinging a fair few left hooks that were either missing or being blocked. I was actually impressed at how AJ got through that part of the fight.

yourdeadwright

walshb wrote: »

Can you answer what you think happens IF AJ lands a clean hard shot on Wilder. Heavy shot....

This could be the most dangerous part of the fight for AJ

He could stun Wilder try to get him out of there and become wreck less and get caught himself , (Ruiz 1 )

yourdeadwright

NewMan1982 wrote: »

You can use the above logic to **** all over any boxer.

Fury has been put down by much less heavy hitters and had to change his style over it.

Wilder hasn’t fought a power puncher that I know of yet he’s been down too.

Wlad did try to finish Joshua. He was swinging a fair few left hooks that were either missing or being blocked. I was actually impressed at how AJ got through that part of the fight.

YE I agree Fury changed his style and its done him wonders,


Ortiz is power puncher and that's who dropped Wilder,


Wlad tried but he was what 40 or 42 years old and 2 year's retired , he didn't have the tank he used to .

walshb

yourdeadwright wrote: »

This could be the most dangerous part of the fight for AJ

He could stun Wilder try to get him out of there and become wreck less and get caught himself , (Ruiz 1 )

Of course, but do you think AJ can end the fight if he lands clean and flush?

Or badly badly hurt Wilder, enough that Wilder is so out of it and really there for the taking?

Not just talking about AJ stunning Wilder. I am asking if you think he could possibly drop him, badly hurt him, or KO him...

yourdeadwright

walshb wrote: »

Of course, but do you think AJ can end the fight if he lands clean and flush?

Or badly badly hurt Wilder, enough that Wilder is so out of it and really there for the taking?

Not just talking about AJ stunning Wilder. I am asking if you think he could possibly drop him, badly hurt him, or KO him...

Of course its possible but I don't think its likely at all,

I see Wilder beating hin 9 times out of 10 at the moment,


I just hope they fight soon and not after there prime

squinn2912

I think some of you guys are reading too much into Joshua’s second performance vs Ruiz. He had to win. He had to avoid losing and so he did this by being careful and it worked. He could have fought that fight for 24 rounds and won. No brainer. He won’t be as cautious again imo.

I think he beats wilder by ko in 6 rounds. He’ll give him something to think about. Clinch and wrestle. Catch him and beat him to the punch. Combo to finish him off. Wilder won’t like it when a heavier hitter is getting the better of him. Watch him shrink.

I’ll be rooting for wilder but that’s how it goes for me

yourdeadwright

squinn2912 wrote: »

I think some of you guys are reading too much into Joshua’s second performance vs Ruiz. He had to win. He had to avoid losing and so he did this by being careful and it worked. He could have fought that fight for 24 rounds and won. No brainer. He won’t be as cautious again imo.

I think he beats wilder by ko in 6 rounds. He’ll give him something to think about. Clinch and wrestle. Catch him and beat him to the punch. Combo to finish him off. Wilder won’t like it when a heavier hitter is getting the better of him. Watch him shrink.

I’ll be rooting for wilder but that’s how it goes for me

All the different opinions is the reason we NEED these fights to happen, Be such a shame if we never get to see the real outcome ,

NewMan1982

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Ortiz is power puncher and that's who dropped Wilder,
.

Ortiz didn’t drop wilder.
Referring to Ortiz being a heavy puncher, he hasn’t stopped any top contenders. The best I can find is Jennings.
He failed to stop Malik Scott who wilder stopped in a minute.
Ortiz also has a questionable PED history.

I’m just making these points to show you can **** over everyone’s record.

yourdeadwright

NewMan1982 wrote: »

Ortiz didn’t drop wilder.
Referring to Ortiz being a heavy puncher, he hasn’t stopped any top contenders. The best I can find is Jennings.
He failed to stop Malik Scott who wilder stopped in a minute.
Ortiz also has a questionable PED history.

I’m just making these points to show you can **** over everyone’s record.

Sorry your correct he didn't hit the canvas but was out on his feet and held on for dear life to make the bell,


But Ortiz is certainly one of hardest hitter in the division no question, he is also defo a drug cheat I agree with you there ,


I wouldn't compare Wilder fights to anyone he literally has to touch you and its lights out ,

The problem with Ortiz is everyone ducked him for a long time, because he was good but with nothing to gain , I reckon u'll see him in name fights now as he is about 90 and less of a threat than before ,

walshb

Ortiz is a good puncher. AJ is both heavier punching and better overall...

It wasn't a huge shot that Ortiz had Wilder on queer street with either.

yourdeadwright

walshb wrote: »

Ortiz is a good puncher. AJ is both heavier punching and better overall...

It wasn't a huge shot that Ortiz had Wilder on queer street with either.

I agree but I also think Ortiz would be far more comfortable to work in Wilders range than AJ would, he's more of a natural


AJ's has power and athleticism , which is obvious given Ortiz is about 50

squinn2912

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I agree but I also think Ortiz would be far more comfortable to work in Wilders range than AJ would, he's more of a natural


AJ's has power and athleticism , which is obvious given Ortiz is about 50

Being a southpaw too is relevant here. Aj will move more predictably for wilder

nacho libre

squinn2912 wrote: »

I think some of you guys are reading too much into Joshua’s second performance vs Ruiz. He had to win. He had to avoid losing and so he did this by being careful and it worked. He could have fought that fight for 24 rounds and won. No brainer. He won’t be as cautious again imo.

I think he beats wilder by ko in 6 rounds. He’ll give him something to think about. Clinch and wrestle. Catch him and beat him to the punch. Combo to finish him off. Wilder won’t like it when a heavier hitter is getting the better of him. Watch him shrink.

I’ll be rooting for wilder but that’s how it goes for me

Did you mean to say a heavy hitter? As i don't think Joshua hit harder than Wilder.
I think the first fight with Ruiz has done damage to Joshua's confidence, if he was terrified of trading with Ruiz, who is not a huge puncher, he won't commit against Wilder, which could be his undoing - as i believe he does have the hand speed to get in and stun Wilder but he may be reluctant to follow up. I think Wilder has a decent chin, though i feel if he gets hits clean, unlike Ruiz in the first bout with Joshua , then Wilder will be put down and stay there.

squinn2912

nacho libre wrote: »

Did you mean to say a heavy hitter? As i don't think Joshua hit harder than Wilder.
I think the first fight with Ruiz has done damage to Joshua's confidence, if he was terrified of trading with Ruiz, who is not a huge puncher, he won't commit against Wilder, which could be his undoing - as i believe he does have the hand speed to get in and stun Wilder but he may be reluctant to follow up. I think Wilder has a decent chin, though i feel if he gets hits clean, unlike Ruiz in the first bout with Joshua , then Wilder will be put down and stay there.

No sorry I meant a heavier hitter than Ortiz not wilder himself. Your point is fine but it was due to the amount he had to lose. If Ruiz beat him again it’s a huge deal. Try negotiating big fights without any belts. I think he will fight in March again or April looking at taking on the big prize in the autumn. Next fight will be a keep busy one but not necessarily easy

walshb

I think people may be missing the possible confidence boost the win over Ruiz may give AJ? That he had the character to come back, under huge pressure, to defeat the man that broke him...

Just because AJ fought very cautiously and carefully against at Ruiz, the man who broke him, doesn’t mean he goes in against Wilder all gun shy, cautious, unsure and kind of scared....

Each opponent can have a different plan...

AJ now knows he can both blast you away, or be slick and careful and cautious enough to box you, confuse you and beat you down..

Of course, Wilder is not Ruiz, but AJ is a far cleaner and more technical boxer and puncher than Wilder..

I think he can beat him both ways. Points or KO...

Wilder unlikely to win on points...

But I still expect this to be over inside 3-4 rds..

squinn2912

walshb wrote: »

I think people may be missing the possible confidence boost the win over Ruiz may give AJ? That he had the character to come back, under huge pressure, to defeat the man that broke him...

Just because AJ fought very cautiously and carefully against at Ruiz, the man who broke him, doesn’t mean he goes in against Wilder all gun shy, cautious, unsure and kind of scared....

Each opponent can have a different plan...

AJ now knows he can both blast you away, or be slick and careful and cautious enough to box you, confuse you and beat you down..

Of course, Wilder is not Ruiz, but AJ is a far cleaner and more technical boxer and puncher than Wilder..

I think he can beat him both ways. Points or KO...

Wilder unlikely to win on points...

But I still expect this to be over inside 3-4 rds..

That’s exactly my point about Joshua. He made absolutely sure of the win. I thought he’d be more aggressive and that Ruiz wouldn’t stand up to shots.
I think Joshua will eat wilder alive. Once wilder tastes a few jabs and combos he’ll realise that he can’t just wait for this moment to come. Wild swings and Joshua ices him on the counter.

normanoffside

Joe Joyce and Daniel Dubois have to be the two least charismatic heavyweights ever.

squinn2912

normanoffside wrote: »

Joe Joyce and Daniel Dubois have to be the two least charismatic heavyweights ever.

I can’t fully decide are they dry and boring or simpletons? Be interesting if they meet all the same (minus the build up)

NewMan1982

How far do you think Dubois can go? I don’t rate Joyce at all.

squinn2912

NewMan1982 wrote: »

How far do you think Dubois can go? I don’t rate Joyce at all.

I think he’ll go straight through Joyce at some point but I do think it’s an interesting fight. If he wins that then he’s backed up some of the hype. At the moment he’s like Joshua when he turned pro (but much younger) looking like an 18 year old in an under 10s game. I think Price, Allen, Chisora or Parker all make for a good fight. We won’t know until he’s against something decent. But at 22 it’s hard to rush him