Heavyweight Boxing

walshb

Cyrus wrote: »

Usyk took enough from chisora to convince me that AJ would knock him out, i personally wouldnt see it going longer than 6/7 rounds.

Let’s frame this...👌

Cyrus

walshb wrote: »

Let’s frame this...👌

you seem to think i dont like AJ, i do actually, he is generally exciting and ill always watch him when he is on.

IMO fury beats him, but that apart AJ is the next best HW and people love a KO artist.

walshb

Cyrus wrote: »

you seem to think i dont like AJ, i do actually, he is generally exciting and ill always watch him when he is on.

IMO fury beats him, but that apart AJ is the next best HW and people love a KO artist.

+1

Yeh, but remember all the accusations of you know what..Whilst defending those with actual convictions..that reads as too much bias to me..

Certainly comes across that you simply have a dislike for him..

I have 0 bias/input of any fighter...

I always like to simply judge them on their skills and talents and capabilities..

I don’t even consider nationality.

They are all just boxers/fighters to me, and will be assessed as such..

I wish more simply assessed like this...

Cyrus

walshb wrote: »

+1

Yeh, but remember all the accusations of you know what..Whilst defending those with actual convictions..that reads as too much bias to me..

Certainly comes across that you simply have a dislike for him..

I have 0 bias/input of any fighter...

I always like to simply judge them on their skills and talents and capabilities..

I don’t even consider nationality.

They are all just boxers/fighters to me, and will be assessed as such..

I wish more simply assessed like this...

I stand by all that but I am of the opinion that the majority of elite athletes across all sports are at it so what can you do!

But honestly I don’t dislike him I just have a preference for fury in a match up, aj against most others I’d expect him to win and I’d normally be rooting for him.

nacho libre

walshb wrote: »

Usyk gets brave and fights and commits? He gets hit real heavily and does not take it.

I think even if Usyk tries to evade Joshua for 12 rounds, i don't see him being able to avoid being hit clean at times. I think he won't be able to take it either. There is just no scenario where i see Usyk beating Joshua based on what i've seen of him so far.

Morrison J

squinn2912 wrote: »

Yea I was surprised to see the fight still on two rounds later. I’ve no doubt about his intelligence at all. I’ve been rubbishing his abilities against the biggest and best hws especially aj but it’s Tod o with his lack of size and power against them, not boxing ability.

To be fair his team has confirmed that he badly hurt his left hand early in the fight. Did notice it was strapped up a bit in the interviews he did the day after the fight too. Might have some part to play in the reason he didn't let his hands go late on and get Chisora out of there.

ebbsy

Re Fury vs AJ :

Fury is getting older. Does not help him.

If it comes down to ring craft Fury would win.

However if AJ connects its over.

AJ by stoppage in the mid rounds for me.

eagle eye

nacho libre wrote:

I think even if Usyk tries to evade Joshua for 12 rounds, i don't see him being able to avoid being hit clean at times. I think he won't be able to take it either. There is just no scenario where i see Usyk beating Joshua based on what i've seen of him so far.

I think AJ beats him too but in fairness there's no basis for saying Usyk can't take a shot.

Mantis Toboggan

Will Usyk vs AJ be going ahead before the Fury fight?

Morrison J

ebbsy wrote: »

Re Fury vs AJ :

Fury is getting older. Does not help him.

If it comes down to ring craft Fury would win.

However if AJ connects its over.

AJ by stoppage in the mid rounds for me.

Only a year between them tbf. Not sure how big a factor that will be.

Wilder connected multiple times and Fury kept going. Wouldn't underestimate his chin or powers of recovery. Given how Fury is punching under Sugar Hill if he connects it may well be over too. Can't help but make Fury a strong favourite in that one.

gypsy79

Morrison J wrote: »

Only a year between them tbf. Not sure how big a factor that will be.

Wilder connected multiple times and Fury kept going. Wouldn't underestimate his chin or powers of recovery. Given how Fury is punching under Sugar Hill if he connects it may well be over too. Can't help but make Fury a strong favourite in that one.

Yeah AJ should be 4 or 5 /1

My guess is he will be 2/1

Just checked he is 11/8. People dont like Fury and people think AJ is much better than he is.

walshb

eagle eye wrote: »

I think AJ beats him too but in fairness there's no basis for saying Usyk can't take a shot.

Nobody is saying that he can’t take a shot!

But surely thinking that quite a concussive and efficient hitter weighing 245 lbs could well drop and badly hurt a man weighing 215 lbs..

I think this is fairly obvious and safe logic..

Could I and others be wrong? Of course...

I just think Usyk won’t take hard clean shots from AJ..

And some, using Gassiev as some barometer does not at all change my view here..

Firstly: Gassiev was 200 lbs
Second: he does not hit harder than a big HW like AJ
Thirdly: what exactly did he land of real substance on Usyk?

walshb

Morrison J wrote: »

Only a year between them tbf. Not sure how big a factor that will be.

Wilder connected multiple times and Fury kept going. Wouldn't underestimate his chin or powers of recovery. Given how Fury is punching under Sugar Hill if he connects it may well be over too. Can't help but make Fury a strong favourite in that one.

Wilder had Fury down from a cuff shot in the mid rds.

The 12th. Had him flat on his back for ten seconds, from two decent shots, but not near as heavy and clean as he has nailed others with..

Add this to Fury being dropped, clearly hurt/wobbled from other hitters that are not near as dangerous as AJ, who is a very concussive and efficient hitter..

AJ connects and hurts Fury, he won’t be near as clumsy on any follow up!

Morrison J

walshb wrote: »

Thirdly: what exactly did he land of real substance on Usyk?

Gassiev was a huge puncher at cruiser to be fair. I think any other cruiser goes down from this shot.

walshb

Morrison J wrote: »

Gassiev was a huge puncher at cruiser to be fair. I think any other cruiser goes down from this shot.

Decent shot. Still a 200 lbs man compared to the weight and force that AJ can generate.

The shots that AJ destroyed a very tough AP with were IMO far more conclusive and impacting than anything Gassiev landed on Usyk.

Morrison J

gypsy79 wrote: »

Yeah AJ should be 4 or 5 /1

My guess is he will be 2/1

Just checked he is 11/8. People dont like Fury and people think AJ is much better than he is.

I think Fury 1/4 Joshua 5/2-ish would be about right. Be a long time till he's ever a value bet with the bookies though given all the hype around him

gypsy79

Fury is 4/7, that is the value

There is always value in every bet if you think you know more than bookies (not always the bookies but the money been placed)

Morrison J

walshb wrote: »

Wilder had Fury down from a cuff shot in the mid rds.

The 12th. Had him flat on his back for ten seconds, from two decent shots, but not near as heavy and clean as he has nailed others with..

Add this to Fury being dropped, clearly hurt/wobbled from other hitters that are not near as dangerous as AJ, who is a very concussive and efficient hitter..

AJ connects and hurts Fury, he won’t be near as clumsy on any follow up!

Wilder a bigger puncher than Joshua though and Fury took a number of big shots from him in both fights.

Fury's powers of recuperation are freakish imo. Not sure the opportunity was really there for Wilder to take him out after either knockdown. Fury actually took another huge shot from Wilder in the 12th but took it really well and won the rest of the round.

Joshua is a brilliant finisher and puts combinations together better than any fighter Fury has faced at that level so it's obviously possible he can hurt Fury and take him out but Fury has far too many advantages for me to pick Joshua to actually pull it off on the night.

Morrison J

walshb wrote: »

Decent shot. Still a 200 lbs man compared to the weight and force that AJ can generate.

The shots that AJ destroyed a very tough AP with were IMO far more conclusive and impacting than anything Gassiev landed on Usyk.

Still a shot that most don't take at that level. There's nothing to say Usyk can't take punches at heavyweight yet. Just sheer projection.

Yeah but Povetkin stood in front of Joshua. Usyk won't give Joshua that same sort of opportunity to just tee off on him.

walshb

Morrison J wrote: »

Yeah but Povetkin stood in front of Joshua. Usyk won't give Joshua that same sort of opportunity to just tee off on him.

Yes, but that’s a separate point

I was simply using the AJ shots to compare their power/force to the Gassiev shot you showed..

If AJ lands clean and hard, Usyk for me drops!

Key for Usyk is to not get tagged really clean

The question? Can he avoid, and if not, can he take..

Personally I say no to both!

US2

ebbsy wrote: »

Re Fury vs AJ :

Fury is getting older. Does not help him.

If it comes down to ring craft Fury would win.

However if AJ connects its over.

AJ by stoppage in the mid rounds for me.

Fury is 32. Joshua is 31...

eagle eye

walshb wrote:

But surely thinking that quite a concussive and efficient hitter weighing 245 lbs could well drop and badly hurt a man weighing 215 lbs..

I think this is fairly obvious and safe logic..

Well I see AJ's jab being the big weapon in this fight. He can keep Usyk out if reach with it.
I'm predicting a ko as well but I'm predicting that Usyk loses too many rounds early and has to try and come inside and he'll get caught at some stage when that happens.
Now if he is able to score and avoid the jab then it's a whole different ball game.

Usyk won't get ko'd by any old punch, it'll take a real good shot.

He's never been ko'd or even close so you gotta consider that too.

yourdeadwright

Morrison J wrote: »

Still a shot that most don't take at that level. There's nothing to say Usyk can't take punches at heavyweight yet. Just sheer projection.

Yeah but Povetkin stood in front of Joshua. Usyk won't give Joshua that same sort of opportunity to just tee off on him.

Its more the way Derek was able to back him up and bully him in parts Derek never rocked him but it was quite clear his shots shot had him shying away at stages, AJ in my opinion would blast him out of there,

walshb

US2 wrote: »

Fury is 32. Joshua is 31...

Ancient old men..

I think the poster might be meaning miles on clock, lifestyle and their fighting styles...that maybe Fury is just an older type fighter...

walshb

eagle eye wrote: »

Well I see AJ's jab being the big weapon in this fight. He can keep Usyk out if reach with it.
I'm predicting a ko as well but I'm predicting that Usyk loses too many rounds early and has to try and come inside and he'll get caught at some stage when that happens.
Now if he is able to score and avoid the jab then it's a whole different ball game.

Usyk won't get ko'd by any old punch, it'll take a real good shot.

He's never been ko'd or even close so you gotta consider that too.

No issue here.

For me, AJ will land that/those good shots to either drop him-finish him, or hurt him badly enough that he is there for the finishing..

yourdeadwright

walshb wrote: »

Wilder had Fury down from a cuff shot in the mid rds.

The 12th. Had him flat on his back for ten seconds, from two decent shots, but not near as heavy and clean as he has nailed others with..

Add this to Fury being dropped, clearly hurt/wobbled from other hitters that are not near as dangerous as AJ, who is a very concussive and efficient hitter..

AJ connects and hurts Fury, he won’t be near as clumsy on any follow up!

The Wilder shot that put him down in the mid rounds had nothing to do with the chin, it was a shot he took off balance and put him over, I think you'll agree it never hurt him ,

the one in the 12th was a normal Wilder shot that's been starching guys, Don't forget Fury would have been ability shattered because of his shape and he still got up ,

I have wondered does the fact Fury is so lose lend to his ability to recover, He rarely gets caught without managing some kid of attempt to roll the punch so rarely feels the full shot, Look at AJ he stiffens up under fire and that not good if someone lands,

walshb

yourdeadwright wrote: »

The Wilder shot that put him down in the mid rounds had nothing to do with the chin, it was a shot he took off balance and put him over, I think you'll agree it never hurt him ,

the one in the 12th was a normal Wilder shot that's been starching guys, Don't forget Fury would have been ability shattered because of his shape and he still got up ,

I have wondered does the fact Fury is so lose lend to his ability to recover, He rarely gets caught without managing some kid of attempt to roll the punch so rarely feels the full shot, Look at AJ he stiffens up under fire and that not good if someone lands,

Yes, I do agree that the cuff shot was more balance, and even slight fatigue (at that point) than a weakness to take a shot..

But the 12th...sorry, he was pretty much flat out for 9-10 seconds...

Plenty people I have read/seen mentioned the shots being good, but not all that clean and devastating..

If AJ lands clean to wobble and hurt, he will do a far better job finishing. He is a very good power combination puncher, and I don’t think Fury will find it all easy to contain him with whatever Fury employs. AJ is physically rough and strong in close..

We just need them to fight..

Morrison J

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Its more the way Derek was able to back him up and bully him in parts Derek never rocked him but it was quite clear his shots shot had him shying away at stages, AJ in my opinion would blast him out of there,

Been over it already but I just don't see Joshua being able to replicate that sort of pressure that Chisora brought. Joshua far more methodical in approach which will suit Usyk. Usyk's movement will prevent Joshua from being able to comfortably set his feet and land those big shots imo and I think Joshua is going to tire from chasing him. It's a really close intriguing fight to me.

walshb

Btw, a Fury KO would be no surprise either...

AJs chin can be dented/wobbled, as we know..

nacho libre

eagle eye wrote: »

I think AJ beats him too but in fairness there's no basis for saying Usyk can't take a shot.

Well, there is a basis for it, as we've not seen him take clean punches from a hard hitting heavyweight yet. Yes, we've seen him show a good chin at Cruiserweight, but
there is a big difference between taking punches from Cruiserweights, than there is off a 250 pound heavyweight who is fairly heavy handed. Joshua may not have the one punch ko power of Wilder, but he hits hard all the same.