Heavyweight Boxing

yourdeadwright

Morrison J wrote: »

Been over it already but I just don't see Joshua being able to replicate that sort of pressure that Chisora brought. Joshua far more methodical in approach which will suit Usyk. Usyk's movement will prevent Joshua from being able to comfortably set his feet and land those big shots imo and I think Joshua is going to tire from chasing him. It's a really close intriguing fight to me.

I can't see Usyk being able to get off the end of AJ jab ,
If he want's hit AJ he will be hit with some big shots,
AJ is bigger ,stronger Fresher than Derek I just for the life of me can't see Usyk troubling ,

Of course at this stage there is not right or wrong just opinion , I would like to see the fight to find out ,

Morrison J

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I can't see Usyk being able to get off the end of AJ jab ,
If he want's hit AJ he will be hit with some big shots,
AJ is bigger ,stronger Fresher than Derek I just for the life of me can't see Usyk troubling ,

Of course at this stage there is not right or wrong just opinion , I would like to see the fight to find out ,

In fairness 3 out of the last 4 of Joshua's opponents have been shorter than Usyk (Takam, Ruiz, Povetkin). All had varying levels of success but Ruiz and Povetkin were able to get to Joshua and hurt him. Usyk is easily more crafty than those two. Joshua may well get to him and win but I just can't see it being straightforward.

yourdeadwright

walshb wrote: »

Yes, I do agree that the cuff shot was more balance, and even slight fatigue (at that point) than a weakness to take a shot..

But the 12th...sorry, he was pretty much flat out for 9-10 seconds...

Plenty people I have read/seen mentioned the shots being good, but not all that clean and devastating..

If AJ lands clean to wobble and hurt, he will is a far better job finishing. He is a very good power combination puncher, and I don’t think Fury will find it all easy to contain him with whatever Fury employs. AJ is physically rough and strong in close..

We just need them to fight..

I agree he was flat out in the 12th, but I'm saying it was a very good shot he got his with ,

Correct me if I'm wrong but iv never seen Fury be wobbled or hurt ?

I believe every time he has hit the deck its been one shot , as of yet we have not seen someone get him in trouble and capitalise , Two of these where fights he had a wreck less style and was not the fighter we see today ,

If AJ's is going to KO him I believe it would have to be one shot, he doens;t see coming ,

ebbsy

Morrison J wrote: »

Only a year between them tbf. Not sure how big a factor that will be.

Wilder connected multiple times and Fury kept going. Wouldn't underestimate his chin or powers of recovery. Given how Fury is punching under Sugar Hill if he connects it may well be over too. Can't help but make Fury a strong favourite in that one.

There was a load of garbage going around about Wilder hitting harder than a prime Tyson.

Bull****.

walshb

ebbsy wrote: »

There was a load of garbage going around about Wilder hitting harder than a prime Tyson.

Bull****.

I get fed up with these matter of fact claims about who hits harder. There are far too many variables to consider to at all know with any degree of certainty as to who hits harder..

It’s science: a machine reading is the only way to separate these things..

Wilder generates a lot of force-power-impact from his best shots.

AJ generates a lot of force-power-impact from his best shots..

Prime Tyson the same..

Prime Foreman the same

Prime Lewis the same

There is no way to say who generates more power-impact..

If I was betting I’d probably back a 240 lbs Lewis as the one who could generate the most force from his shots..

Anyway, guaranteed they’d all be very close..

squinn2912

Bit of a response from
Mark B.

walshb

New super CW division looking to take off..

Big Ears

walshb wrote: »

New super CW division looking to take off..

Hoping the other sanctioning bodies avoid it and it fails to take off, but that seems unlikely. The will likely jump at the chance to make a little more money.

Most Heavyweights who fight between the 200-224 lbs mark can make Cruiserweight if theiy're as lean as they should be plus a little water cut.
It's pretty much creating a division for large Cruiserweights who don't fancy making wait.

Cruiserweight is often an overlooked division as it is, imagine how little attention it'll get when there's a Jnr. Heavyweight (Or Bridger weight as the WBC are calling it) divison above it.

I'd have had no issue with pushing Light-Heavyweight up 5 lbs, to reduce the gap between some of the upper divisions, but other than that tinkering is not necessary !

yourdeadwright

Big Ears wrote: »

Hoping the other sanctioning bodies avoid it and it fails to take off, but that seems unlikely. The will likely jump at the chance to make a little more money.

Most Heavyweights who fight between the 200-224 lbs mark can make Cruiserweight if theiy're as lean as they should be plus a little water cut.
It's pretty much creating a division for large Cruiserweights who don't fancy making wait.

Cruiserweight is often an overlooked division as it is, imagine how little attention it'll get when there's a Jnr. Heavyweight (Or Bridger weight as the WBC are calling it) divison above it.

I'd have had no issue with pushing Light-Heavyweight up 5 lbs, to reduce the gap between some of the upper divisions, but other than that ticketing is not necessary !

Lads will drop down to pick up a belt and use it as a negotiating tool at Heavy weight
The money and prestige at heavey weight will be to much for any good lads to stay down permanently

walshb

I think talent and skills is more the issue here than sheer size....

220 lbs and slight above for many would see them rule today...

The best two on earth are AJ and Fury, both above 245 lbs....

Both men are far from unbeatable IMO...

Example: I would take a 205-210 lbs Holyfield to TKO AJ

220 lbs Tyson to obliterate AJ and to take Fury out....

Morrison J

Allen announced his retirement today thankfully.

https://twitter.com/NotScot08221676/status/1328051160964608000?s=19

normanoffside

Morrison J wrote: »

Allen announced his retirement today thankfully.

https://twitter.com/NotScot08221676/status/1328051160964608000?s=19

Better oook at it here with sound.
Usyk an absolute gent, great to see from him.

https://twitter.com/MichaelBensonn/status/1328059223796822018

Johner

Really like Dave Allen, seems a good bloke but glad he’s retired. Don’t get the hate he gets though. You do the best with what you’ve got and getting opportunities the way he did through a big social media following is a good way to do it when you’re not the most talented fighter out there.

squinn2912

Johner wrote: »

Really like Dave Allen, seems a good bloke but glad he’s retired. Don’t get the hate he gets though. You do the best with what you’ve got and getting opportunities the way he did through a big social media following is a good way to do it when you’re not the most talented fighter out there.

I dunno I think he could easily continue at the level he’s at for some tome. I feel a bit sorry for him there’s a bit of the crying clown about him I think he gives himself a hard time. He’s done ok against some good boxers but then the likes of price can take him apart

normanoffside

squinn2912 wrote: »

I dunno I think he could easily continue at the level he’s at for some tome. I feel a bit sorry for him there’s a bit of the crying clown about him I think he gives himself a hard time. He’s done ok against some good boxers but then the likes of price can take him apart

The thing is he has always relied on his chin and if Usyk is able to rattle him so badly with a half jab/half hook while wearing sparring gloves then maybe Allen realises that his biggest asset is no more.

I think he knows he is shot.

squinn2912

normanoffside wrote: »

The thing is he has always relied on his chin and if Usyk is able to rattle him so badly with a half jab/half hook while wearing sparring gloves then maybe Allen realises that his biggest asset is no more.

I think he knows he is shot.

Yea I think you have a point there. The Price fight knocked the stuffing out of him. He really didn’t live the life outside the ring either and I think he struggles with motivation. Just because Usyk would flatten him doesn’t mean he can’t be a decent player on a lower level. He’s not been KO’d badly even though he’s been stopped a couple of times. But yea good luck to him.

Cyrus

squinn2912 wrote: »

Yea I think you have a point there. The Price fight knocked the stuffing out of him. He really didn’t live the life outside the ring either and I think he struggles with motivation. Just because Usyk would flatten him doesn’t mean he can’t be a decent player on a lower level. He’s not been KO’d badly even though he’s been stopped a couple of times. But yea good luck to him.

he is a complex character and i think he struggles a bit with depression, getting hit around the head probably isnt the best thing for him.

on his day he was a decent british level fighter, but that price fight showed his level and was a hard watch.

yourdeadwright

squinn2912 wrote: »

Yea I think you have a point there. The Price fight knocked the stuffing out of him. He really didn’t live the life outside the ring either and I think he struggles with motivation. Just because Usyk would flatten him doesn’t mean he can’t be a decent player on a lower level. He’s not been KO’d badly even though he’s been stopped a couple of times. But yea good luck to him.

,
Looks like if he actually put the head down ,trained properly and looked after himself he'd actually be too small for heavy weight scene,
Basically Iv always thought he looks like an lazy overweight cruiser weight

squinn2912

Cyrus wrote: »

he is a complex character and i think he struggles a bit with depression, getting hit around the head probably isnt the best thing for him.

on his day he was a decent british level fighter, but that price fight showed his level and was a hard watch.

Yea I was actually at that fight. Price took him apart and stopped him with the jab. He vowed that he wouldn’t need to sit down and then got stopped. It’s a pity he’s not staying around I think he’d have made a pretty good gatekeeper and down the road some punditry perhaps. Ah well he’s only 28 he can do a lot of things

squinn2912

yourdeadwright wrote: »

,
Looks like if he actually put the head down ,trained properly and looked after himself he'd actually be too small for heavy weight scene,
Basically Iv always thought he looks like an lazy overweight cruiser weight

Yea I always felt that too. When I first saw him I couldn’t believe he was only 23/24 not much reason to be as heavy. It’s a pity he might have been a good competitor at CW

yourdeadwright

So looks like the Fury fight in December is off due to money ,

Bob Arum saying that because it would be a Saturday afternoon in the States and in December it would get really low figures due to some very important American football games played at the same time,

It would not have been a issues normally but as there is also no gate in England ,it took them to long to get an opponent to build up the fight and the fact AJ is on Pay preview the week before they just don't think they would get the number of buys to make the whole thing worth while,

Also said if AJ wins they will look to fight him next and if he loses then they would look to fight Wilder as its the next biggest fight they can make, (AJ would be having a rematch with Pulev )

He also expects Wilder's teams case to be throw out in court on the contract dispute but if AJ loses they will go ahead and let Wilder fight Fury in late February

squinn2912

It;s a bit of a watch this space and the space is moving around. A lot of variables to sort out but it was a bit of a sh*tshow from the beginning - “ill be announcing my opponent in 5 days...” I hate it when we have to put up with nonsense like that.

squinn2912

Joyce looking trim anyway so at least he’s going to arrive in shape. Looking forward to this

walshb

squinn2912 wrote: »

Joyce looking trim anyway so at least he’s going to arrive in shape. Looking forward to this

And he is quite peeved that the bookies have him down as a journeyman..

Bringing anger to the ring is always a good thing for the fans..

yourdeadwright

Who do you lads think will win this ,

Its very hard to call at the moment for me

On one hand Joyce should be big and clever enough to frustrate his way to a late Ko or a decision
on the other is Dubious quick and explosive enough to get to Joes chin and ko him early,

Its very hard to know ,

The Nal

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Who do you lads think will win this ,

Its very hard to call at the moment for me

On one hand Joyce should be big and clever enough to frustrate his way to a late Ko or a decision
on the other is Dubious quick and explosive enough to get to Joes chin and ko him early,

Its very hard to know ,

Can't see anything but a Dubois KO. Dubois has been improving fight after fight but Joyce looked dreadful in his last fight. Slow, no hand speed and ploddy. I think he'll get walked down and stopped early enough.

yourdeadwright

The Nal wrote: »

Can't see anything but a Dubois KO. Dubois has been improving fight after fight but Joyce looked dreadful in his last fight. Slow, no hand speed and ploddy. I think he'll get walked down and stopped early enough.

Probably so my one reservation would be the opposition Dubois has fought so far,

The Nal

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Probably so my one reservation would be the opposition Dubois has fought so far,

No question a couple of his opponents have been punchbags.

I really like him though so 100% on the Dubois fanboy train. Dont want to see one of the most promising young talents get his career checked by a guy on a pre retirement victory lap.

Cyrus

The Nal wrote: »

Can't see anything but a Dubois KO. Dubois has been improving fight after fight but Joyce looked dreadful in his last fight. Slow, no hand speed and ploddy. I think he'll get walked down and stopped early enough.

i dont think DD will walk big joe down, it will be more competitive than people think i reckon and DD will be in deep water at some stage but if i was betting id have it on him to win by KO 7th or 8th round.

selectamatic

Worth noting that the longer the Kevin Johnson fight went on the less likely a Dubois ko victory looked. His power and snap seemed to fade quite a bit.