Heavyweight Boxing

yourdeadwright

I think Fury will be the most excited after Saturday night,
Parker done very well at not being hit but just didn't have the size or reach to anything to get at AJ,
Fury has the same attribute's but has a massive height and reach to go with them, I think Parker showed us that Fury will be a nightmare for AJ,
The one big question is Furys chin good enough to stand up to the few of times AJ finds it which he will at some stage
 I really think Fury can out box AJ after seeing Saturday if his chin can hold up

walshb

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I think Fury will be the most excited after Saturday night,
Parker done very well at not being hit but just didn't have the size or reach to anything to get at AJ,
Fury has the same attribute's but has a massive height and reach to go with them, I think Parker showed us that Fury will be a nightmare for AJ,
The one big question is Furys chin good enough to stand up to the few of times AJ finds it which he will at some stage
 I really think Fury can out box AJ after seeing Saturday if his chin can hold up

Parker was elusive and difficult to tag in an all different sense.....Chin tucked behind jab, almost Toney like at times.....Crouching low as well....sliding around the ring and very good use of lateral movement.

I just cannot see how this can be used to big up Fury's chances....

Fury is far bigger, taller, and does not move/defend like Parker at all

I am not saying that Fury cannot employ a defense and movement that would bother AJ. I just don't think the scenario remotely mirrors Parker and what he did.

Oh, and by the way.....Parker was still clearly beaten. So, all his moving and defending didn't get him close to the win....because he was unsure of committing too much due to AJ being a real punching threat. I said it before the fight that if Parker came in elusive and defensive he could last the distance, but still he would lose.....

Fury still would have to lay an offense on AJ. Can he do this and defend and get AJs respect, and take AJs power? No for me...

yourdeadwright

walshb wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I think Fury will be the most excited after Saturday night,
Parker done very well at not being hit but just didn't have the size or reach to anything to get at AJ,
Fury has the same attribute's but has a massive height and reach to go with them, I think Parker showed us that Fury will be a nightmare for AJ,
The one big question is Furys chin good enough to stand up to the few of times AJ finds it which he will at some stage
 I really think Fury can out box AJ after seeing Saturday if his chin can hold up

Parker was elusive and difficult to tag in an all different sense.....Chin tucked behind jab, almost Toney like at times.....Crouching low as well....sliding around the ring and very good use of lateral movement.

I just cannot see how this can be used to big up Fury's chances....

Fury is far bigger, taller, and does not move/defend like Parker at all

I am not saying that Fury cannot employ a defense and movement that would bother AJ. I just don't think the scenario remotely mirrors Parker and what he did.

Oh, and by the way.....Parker was still clearly beaten. So, all his moving and defending didn't get him close to the win....because he was unsure of committing too much due to AJ being a real punching threat. I said it before the fight that if Parker came in elusive and defensive he could last the distance, but still he would lose.....

Fury still would have to lay an offense on AJ. Can he do this and defend and get AJs respect, and take AJs power? No for me...

Fury moves similar (not the same)  to Parker, He's quick agile and his head movement is great
Aj said himself he didn't really throw his right as he couldn't land it, Tyson will be able to stay the range Parker did but land punches ,plus have the size advantages ,
Remember Wlad who is technically better than AJ had the same complaints against Fury ( didn't let his hands go ) but Tyson was able to score
I think its pretty obvious if his chin holds up that he will give Aj nightmares, I know you didn't like Fury v Wlad but I can see this being similar but with Aj losing his cool and letting lose and making Fury look even better,

yourdeadwright

Again depends on how fit Fury is and his chin .
Anyway we won't se that fight till 2019 at least

walshb

I can get behind the case that Fury's size and agility could bother AJ....

AJ will likely lose some power when having to extend and punch a little higher.

Fury does move, has good body movement and keeps the head out of range a fair bit....

What would really bother me if I was Fury's trainer is what happens when he has to engage.....that is his key....can he avoid and/or take the power of AJ, because I don't think Fury bothers AJ that much with his own offensive power....

Also, in close if Fury thinks he can easily contain AJ, he may be proved very wrong, and may suffer from that very good AJ uppercut that Wlad felt...

Put it his way, AJs performance the other night (which I thought was kind of lackluster) doesn't at all see me rate Fury's chances any better.

Had Parker actually buzzed and stunned and scored consistently whilst fighting cautiously and cleverly and defensively I would think different. Parker simply boxed very calmly and carefully and just kept it somewhat competitive. Never looked like winning.

yourdeadwright

walshb wrote: »

I can get behind the case that Fury's size and agility could bother AJ....

AJ will likely lose some power when having to extend and punch a little higher.

Fury does move, has good body movement and keeps the head out of range a fair bit....

What would really bother me if I was Fury's trainer is what happens when he has to engage.....that is his key....can he avoid and/or take the power of AJ, because I don't think Fury bothers AJ that much with his own offensive power....

Also, in close if Fury thinks he can easily contain AJ, he may be proved very wrong, and may suffer from tat very good AJ uppercut that Wlad felt...

Put it his way, AJs performance the other night (which I thought was kind of lackluster) doesn't at all see me rate Fury's chances any better.

Had Parker actually buzzed and stunned and scored consistently whilst fighting cautiously and cleverly and defensively I would think different. Parker simply boxed very calmly and carefully and just kept it somewhat competitive. Never looked like winning.

I agree parker was never going to win with them tactics he was to small to box form the outside
Fury doesn't need to stop AJ he just need to outbox something I think he can do ,
Two fights now AJ hasn't really hurt his opponents, (Takam was fine ) and two smaller men,
I think AJ v Wilder is whoever lands first , And AJ v Fury will be very interesting if Fury is fit and his chin is decent,

MD1990

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I agree parker was never going to win with them tactics he was to small to box form the outside
Fury doesn't need to stop AJ he just need to outbox something I think he can do ,
Two fights now AJ hasn't really hurt his opponents, (Takam was fine ) and two smaller men,
I think AJ v Wilder is whoever lands first , And AJ v Fury will be very interesting if Fury is fit and his chin is decent,

Fury would probably have to completely school Joshua to get a decision.

I think Wilder KO's Joshua has much superior power.

normanoffside

Morrison J wrote: »

https://twitter.com/EddieHearn/status/980888318299770880

Reading between the lines I reckon that means we get Wilder-Breazeale next. IBF called Pulev-Breazeale last week so assume Breazeale turned that down to fight Wilder and Whyte is next man up.

I reckon we get:

Whyte v Pulev
Wilder v Breazeale
Joshua v Miller

Looks like you are spot on according to Hearn today:

https://www.boxing247.com/boxing-news/eddie-hearn-is-convinced-deontay-wilder-will-fight-dominic-breazeale-next/92378

Hate these bloody politics.

yourdeadwright

How good is Miller , iv not seen much of him ,
What kind of fighter is he

normanoffside

walshb wrote: »

Ah, fook it...

You mean we’re not gonna’ get AJ-Chisora now?

Forget about AJ-Chisora, the one we have really all been waiting for is Gonna happen soon
Oquendo vs Charr for the 'regular' WBA title with Whyte to face the winner.
https://www.boxing247.com/boxing-news/oquendo-charr-will-fight-for-regular-wba-heavyweight-strap-in-may-dillian-whyte-may-fight-the-winner/92365

walshb

yourdeadwright wrote: »

How good is Miller , iv not seen much of him ,
What kind of fighter is he

Big oaf of a fighter...

He is very heavy from what I recall. I only saw one of his fights live, against Gerald Washington. Was ok. Predictable and a bit slow, but close on 300 lbs he is....monster frame on him...

Morrison J

yourdeadwright wrote: »

How good is Miller , iv not seen much of him ,
What kind of fighter is he

Slow, fat, plodding. Joshua would take him out within 6.

He's an unbeaten American and a very good talker though so extremely marketable. Ideal opponent for Joshua's US debut.

yourdeadwright

Isn't he an ex Kickboxer ? surely he'd have to be some what athletic ?

walshb

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Isn't he an ex Kickboxer ? surely he'd have to be some what athletic ?

He is athletic, but at almost 300 lbs he likely won't be athletic enough to be number 1...slow feet, slow hands and slow overall movement...

I never saw him kick-box, mind you.

squinn2912

AJ will destroy millar it’s a total mismatch.

normanoffside

Wilder has released a statement insisting that he wants the fight and that there is nothing to stop it. Also accepting the terms previously offered to him (60/40 split to AJ and fight in the UK).

Looks like the ball is back in Eddie's court.

yourdeadwright

Eddie doesn't want the fight, I'm sure Aj does but Eddies doesn't ,
He said on Saturday we want all the belts , and then say's Wilders people are yet to make US an offer,
If you want there belt Edward go make them an offer like you did to Wlad ,

yourdeadwright

Fury now saying he will take 40 % walk to the ring first and be announced first,
Its being reported the other way but only because he mis -spelled ,accept as expect hahaha

StringerBell

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Eddie doesn't want the fight, I'm sure Aj does but Eddies doesn't ,
He said on Saturday we want all the belts , and then say's Wilders people are yet to make US an offer,
If you want there belt Edward go make them an offer like you did to Wlad ,

They have already made an offer apparently, as referenced above with the 60/40 split etc

You do have to take into account the spin and the optics of a situation also. Eddie saying Wilders people have not approached them is very simply to set themselves up as the big dogs, the A side, the power players in any negotiation. They want to position themselves as the champs to have the Wilder as the challenger in the scenario so they can dictate terms more, if Wilder wants the fight/belt/payday he has to submit to Matchrooms terms, its simple enough really.

I will say though, I am sure Eddie is very apprehensive about the Wilder fight, Wilder is the real danger fight for Joshua. He gets Fury out of there imvho but Wilder is more of a risk for him. His power and style make it more of a pick em and one I can't wait to see. The cash cow could get banged out of there in a second or he could cement his position as the dominant HW on the planet for years to come. Big risk, big reward.

squinn2912

I’m finding it hard to decide if hw boxing is in the doldrums or not! A layer below elite is exciting and entertaining anyhow.
So who wins if Whyte fights Pulev? I’m fed up at the moment thinking about the chess match of the big 3.

megadodge

StringerBell wrote: »

They have already made an offer apparently, as referenced above with the 60/40 split etc

You do have to take into account the spin and the optics of a situation also. Eddie saying Wilders people have not approached them is very simply to set themselves up as the big dogs, the A side, the power players in any negotiation. They want to position themselves as the champs to have the Wilder as the challenger in the scenario so they can dictate terms more, if Wilder wants the fight/belt/payday he has to submit to Matchrooms terms, its simple enough really.

.

Very well put.

It's amazing how many people are clueless about all the negotiations that need to be done in a deal worth tens of millions. Reminds me of the ridiculous criticism Froch got when he hadn't agreed to a rematch with Groves within minutes of the finish. Clowns calling his courage into question, etc. etc. Just like Joshua/Wilder the fight was always going to happen, just have a little bit of patience.


I disagree with your assessment of the actual fight being a pick em though. Wilder just has a puncher's chance and that's it. I expect him to run like a thief for at least 5 rounds, even more than he has done in all his recent fights, while the geniuses all comment on how 'clueless' Joshua will look, despite Wilder's reluctance being the problem. Joshua will eventually catch up with him around round 7 or 8 and Wilder will windmill away. Once Joshua doesn't get careless, he'll finish him off, possibly to the body, where I think Wilder is suspect.

squinn2912

Interesting point. I think that Wilder’s boxing ability is underestimated. He’s very fast with a decent jab and lots of stamina. There’s the danger element too as he really does bang.
Against Ortiz I thought he was always bound to win yet I’d say Ortiz is a better boxer. It’s about finding a way.

squinn2912

A couple of thoughts while out for a run this morning. At the moment I think AJ should have to fight Povetkin next as he’s mandatory and in a way I’m looking forward to that fight more than wilder one.
Should Price retire? On that performance he’d give anyone up to European level all the trouble they want. But he’s now had 2 really bad ko losses during both i was just pleased to see him walk out of the ring. Fantastic guy. Perhaps swapping glove for mike would suit?

walshb

squinn2912 wrote: »

A couple of thoughts while out for a run this morning. At the moment I think AJ should have to fight Povetkin next as he’s mandatory and in a way I’m looking forward to that fight more than wilder one.

Kind of with you on Povetkin vs. AJ being a little more appetizing than AJ vs. Wilder.....I think styles wise AJ-Povetkin may make for better viewing...

yourdeadwright

walshb wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

A couple of thoughts while out for a run this morning. At the moment I think AJ should have to fight Povetkin next as he’s mandatory and in a way I’m looking forward to that fight more than wilder one.

Kind of with you on Povetkin vs. AJ being a little more appetizing than AJ vs. Wilder.....I think styles wise AJ-Povetkin may make for better viewing...

I think Aj Ko's him before the end of round 3 latest.,
I don't think its a competitive fight at all ,

walshb

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I think Aj Ko's him before the end of round 3 latest.,
I don't think its a competitive fight at all ,

You may be right. I just think it could be a "better" view....

AJ-Wilder goes two ways......a stinker because both men are overly cautious or a quick KO (from either man) with not much action to takl about.

We won't get anything close to Wlad-AJ I feel....

yourdeadwright

walshb wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I think Aj Ko's him before the end of round 3 latest.,
I don't think its a competitive fight at all ,

You may be right. I just think it could be a "better" view....

AJ-Wilder goes two ways......a stinker because both men are overly cautious or a quick KO (from either man) with not much action to takl about.

We won't get anything close to Wlad-AJ I feel....

Sick of watching gimme fights at least AJ v Wilder either man can get ko'd
Even against  Wlad before hand AJ was 8/11 for a Ko Wlad was 3/1 , AJ vWilder would be very close to 50/50
Povetkin is another under sized heavy weight who wouldn't have a hope and we'd still be all wanting to see Aj against one of the big lads,

yourdeadwright

WALSHB I know you have always been very pro AJ ,but for the sake of boxing we want to see the biggest fights that can be made,
I can't see how anyone would want to see him fight Povetkin over Wilder , enough of the nonsense and lets have proper big fight,

walshb

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Sick of watching gimme fights at least AJ v Wilder either man can get ko'd
Even against  Wlad before hand AJ was 8/11 for a Ko Wlad was 3/1 , AJ vWilder would be very close to 50/50
Povetkin is another under sized heavy weight who wouldn't have a hope and we'd still be all wanting to see Aj against one of the big lads,

If AJ had a granite chin I would say Povetlin has no hope.....

AJs chin I believe not to be granite. Not china, but maybe Povetkin can crack it clean enough to give us "pause for thought?"

AJ could go in and blow Povetkin away early. I just have a sneaky feeling that this does not happen, leading me to think that it could be somewhat interesting.

A committed AJ will be winning every minute of every rd against Povetkin.....he is too big and he has the technical skills to be superior.

walshb

yourdeadwright wrote: »

WALSHB I know you have always been very pro AJ ,but for the sake of boxing we want to see the biggest fights that can be made,
I can't see how anyone would want to see him fight Povetkin over Wilder , enough of the nonsense and lets have proper big fight,

Povetkin-AJ is a decent alternative....I'd pay for it....

Of course, AJ-Wilder is D fight!