Heavyweight Boxing

Danye

yourdeadwright wrote: »

If Parker and Takam ( I know I know) last with AJ, Fury does at his best no problem
I agree its hard to tell but I wouldn't say he has no chance till we see him its just pure guess work to say that,
We can have an informed opinion after his first fight ,:)

If Steve Cunningham and Pajkić can drop Fury, if AJ catches Fury flush, it’s lights out.

squinn2912

Danye wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I think its silly to write of a former world champion , who dethroned Wlad after all them year's before seeing him fight, 
3 fights and he could be back to his best Fury is a naturally ,
IF it was another weight class u'd be more worried about the time but Heavy weight is not like other weigh classes ,I see him getting 2 cans and then a decent fight and then Aj

Fury hasn’t even got in the ring yet and I’m sick of him already!!

This “He beat the man, who beat the man” nonsense spouted out might carry a bit of weight if Wlad was some sort of unstoppable, unbeaten heavyweight but he wasn’t. Wlad was previously exposed by other fighters ( Brewster, Sanders) yet they don’t seem to be held in as high a regard as Fury.

Wlad has those losses early in his career. He wiped up everything for a decade so there was an almost unbeatable aura about him. Fury deserves the credit for that. That’s 2.5 years ago now which does diminish that credit

Danye

squinn2912 wrote: »

Wlad has those losses early in his career. He wiped up everything for a decade so there was an almost unbeatable aura about him. Fury deserves the credit for that. That’s 2.5 years ago now which does diminish that credit

Well it depends on what your definition of “early in his career” is?

If Fury had of done something similar in a rematch, then I’d begrudgingly say ok but he didn’t. 1 good result isn’t good enough to define a career. There’s been a lot of fighters down through the years that have had great results but if they don’t follow it up it’s not as valuable as some might think.

squinn2912

I agree with the second point. We’re fury to lose then he’s another buster Douglas. But that hasn’t happened yet either so we can’t build him up nor knock him down.
Wlad went from 04-15 on a streak where he was untouchable so he was the man

Littlehorny

As others have said he's all talk at this stage and says he's raring to go. I think Fury will only fight if it's a big fight for big money straight away. I feel that's what he's aiming and talking his way toward.
There is no way he has the commitment or patience to fight 3 tomato cans or nearly men that could mean he sticks at hard training for a year and a half to two years before he faces Wilder or Joshua. He is all in or nothing as far as I can see.

Larsso30

eliterank wrote: »

Signing with Warren just to piss off Eddie Hearn lol

Signed with Warren because he's A) with MTK
warren is prepared to let him fight bin men for next few fights hearn wanted quicker road to bellew fight

yourdeadwright

Danye wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

If Parker and Takam ( I know I know) last with AJ, Fury does at his best no problem
I agree its hard to tell but I wouldn't say he has no chance till we see him its just pure guess work to say that,
We can have an informed opinion after his first fight ,:)

If Steve Cunningham and Pajkić can drop Fury, if AJ catches Fury flush, it’s lights out.

Of course he can that is why fight is exciting, either man in my opinion can win ,

yourdeadwright

Danye wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I think its silly to write of a former world champion , who dethroned Wlad after all them year's before seeing him fight, 
3 fights and he could be back to his best Fury is a naturally ,
IF it was another weight class u'd be more worried about the time but Heavy weight is not like other weigh classes ,I see him getting 2 cans and then a decent fight and then Aj

Fury hasn’t even got in the ring yet and I’m sick of him already!!

This “He beat the man, who beat the man” nonsense spouted out might carry a bit of weight if Wlad was some sort of unstoppable, unbeaten heavyweight but he wasn’t. Wlad was previously exposed by other fighters ( Brewster, Sanders)  yet they don’t seem to be held in as high a regard as Fury.

His last lost was 10 years before it and it made him change style, With his new style of fighting he was unbeaten and looking unstoppable for a decade when he lost to Fury ,

walshb

yourdeadwright wrote: »

His last lost was 10 years before it and it made him change style, With his new style of fighting he was unbeaten and looking unstoppable for a decade when he lost to Fury ,

Fury simply had the right body size and height and overall makeup to make the fight a tough one for a man who was dominating smaller men whilst boxing ever so cautiously. It didn't work against Fury, who is tall, big, rangy and skillful.

It also didn't work against a big and more aggressive boxer/puncher like AJ.

yourdeadwright

walshb wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

His last lost was 10 years before it and it made him change style, With his new style of fighting he was unbeaten and looking unstoppable for a decade when he lost to Fury ,

Fury simply had the right body size and height and overall makeup to make the fight a tough one for a man who was dominating smaller men whilst boxing ever so cautiously. It didn't work against Fury, who is tall, big, rangy and skillful.

It also didn't work against a big and more aggressive boxer/puncher like AJ.

Wlad didn't fight Aj like he did Fury,
He said himself before the fight he was changing his style as he got so much stick for not letting his hands go against Fury and that he was no longer champ and felt more free to attack, , The Wlad that fought AJ was the way he fought 10 years previous  the front foot,
Not taking anything away from AJ at all but he 100)% changed back to the old Wlad for the AJ fight ,|

walshb

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Wlad didn't fight Aj like he did Fury,
He said himself before the fight he was changing his style as he got so much stick for not letting his hands go against Fury and that he was no longer champ and felt more free to attack, , The Wlad that fought AJ was the way he fought 10 years previous  the front foot,
Not taking anything away from AJ at all but he 100)% changed back to the old Wlad for the AJ fight ,|

But that is the kind of spoof about both fights....

Wlad was as cautious in both fights. Just that AJ, being more offensively committed compared to Fury, (who did a lot of messing and posing and ducking and diving), made Wlad look a whole lot better on offense. Wlad was forced to either commit and fight, or get knocked out. Plenty of lull moments vs. AJ.

AJ stood right in front of Wlad and forced the pace and action. Fury did nothing of real offensive substance. Kind of spooked his way to a win, and spooked Wlad in the process. Plus they both cancelled each other out with their ridiculous hugging and holding inside. AJ didn't let that happen.

yourdeadwright

walshb wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Wlad didn't fight Aj like he did Fury,
He said himself before the fight he was changing his style as he got so much stick for not letting his hands go against Fury and that he was no longer champ and felt more free to attack, , The Wlad that fought AJ was the way he fought 10 years previous  the front foot,
Not taking anything away from AJ at all but he 100)% changed back to the old Wlad for the AJ fight ,|

But that is the kind of spoof about both fights....

Wlad was as cautious in both fights. Just that AJ, being  more offensively committed compared to Fury, (who did a lot of messing and posing and ducking and diving), made Wlad look a whole lot better on offense. Wlad was forced to either commit and fight, or get knocked out. Plenty of lull moments vs. AJ.

AJ stood right in front of Wlad and forced the pace and action. Fury did nothing of real offensive substance. Kind of spooked his way to a win, and spooked Wlad in the process. Plus they both cancelled each other out with their ridiculous hugging and holding inside. AJ didn't let that happen.

Just google it you'll see loads of pre fight interviews of Wlad saying his whole camp is about being way more aggressive, says he feels free because of losing the belt and will no longer be boring and safe as he has for years, Its straight from the horses mouth,

walshb

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Just google it you'll see loads of pre fight interviews of Wlad saying his whole camp is about being way more aggressive, says he feels free because of losing the belt and will no longer be boring and safe as he has for years, Its straight from the horses mouth,

That's fine....

I prefer to actually watch the action as opposed to automatically believe and listen to the boxers...

Parker a prime example....I am going to chase you around the ring, AJ...:rolleyes:

Wlad was still very cautious in that AJ fight. It cost him the fight. Had he more desire and fire to go for it he may well have gotten AJ out of there.

You need to consider and factor in AJ and Fury and their styles and ways of fighting when assessing Wlad's performances.

Fury made the fight and AJ made the fight. Two polar opposites. Wlad was going to look different in both fights. But he still was the same old cautious safety first scared to really go for it Wlad.

Punch stats as regards punches thrown were very similar for both fights.

yourdeadwright

walshb wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Just google it you'll see loads of pre fight interviews of Wlad saying his whole camp is about being way more aggressive, says he feels free because of losing the belt and will no longer be boring and safe as he has for years, Its straight from the horses mouth,

That's fine....

I prefer to actually watch the action as opposed to automatically believe and listen to the boxers...

Parker a prime example....I am going to chase you around the ring, AJ...:rolleyes:

Wlad was still very cautious in that AJ fight. It cost him the fight. Had he more desire and fire to go for it he may well have gotten AJ out of there.

You need to consider and factor in AJ and Fury and their styles and ways of fighting when assessing Wlad's performances.

Fury made the fight and AJ made the fight. Two polar opposites. Wlad was going to look different in both fights. But he still was the same old cautious safety first scared to really go for it Wlad.

Punch stats as regards punches thrown were very similar for both fights.

I disagree with you ,
Power punch's thrown in a 12 round v Fury was 69
Power punchs throw in 1  rounds v AJ 137
That's 1 short of double in less rounds , so he was double as a aggressive like he said all build up he would be ,
Wald 100% changes his style, again like he promised before hand ,

yourdeadwright

11 rounds not 1 sorry

walshb

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I disagree with you ,
Power punch's thrown in a 12 round v Fury was 69
Power punchs throw in 1  rounds v AJ 137
That's 1 short of double in less rounds , so he was double as a aggressive like he said all build up he would be ,
Wald 100% changes his style, again like he promised before hand ,

A power punch is any punch other than a lead jab....

Big deal.....

Overall he was still boxing very cautiously.....

Just that against Fury it was so bloody messy and scrappy that it gives the impression that against AJ he was a completely different animal. He absolutely was not.

yourdeadwright

walshb wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I disagree with you ,
Power punch's thrown in a 12 round v Fury was 69
Power punchs throw in 1  rounds v AJ 137
That's 1 short of double in less rounds , so he was double as a aggressive like he said all build up he would be ,
Wald 100% changes his style, again like he promised before hand ,

A power punch is any punch other than a lead jab....

Big deal.....

Overall he was still boxing very cautiously.....

Just that against Fury it was so bloody messy and scrappy that it gives the impression that against AJ he was a completely different animal. He absolutely was not.

Again is disagree , I think Wlad took the handbrake off against AJ but you entitled to your opinion ,

walshb

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Again is disagree , I think Wlad took the handbrake off against AJ but you entitled to your opinion ,

I have no issue with this view....I can understand it. I am merely trying to explain it, to better my position....:)

yourdeadwright

That's the beauty of boxing people see different things and appreciate different aspects,
 I guess there is no right or wring but just opinions,
I think when they meet it'll be AJ by Ko or Fury by points (not if they have the ref from last fight) it makes it very interesting because I think both on form and fit can beat each other,

loyatemu

yourdeadwright wrote: »

His last lost was 10 years before it and it made him change style, With his new style of fighting he was unbeaten and looking unstoppable for a decade when he lost to Fury ,

who decided Wlad was the lineal champion though - the last lineal champion was Lewis, who retired.

Vitali was then described as the lineal champion as he was the last guy Lewis fought and was winning the fight when it was stopped; but obviously Wlad never fought Vitali. Fury's claim to be the lineal champ is pretty flimsy.

walshb

loyatemu wrote: »

who decided Wlad was the lineal champion though - the last lineal champion was Lewis, who retired.

Vitali was then described as the lineal champion as he was the last guy Lewis fought and was winning the fight when it was stopped; but obviously Wlad never fought Vitali. Fury's claim to be the lineal champ is pretty flimsy.

That's just it as regards lineal....

Different people and bodies etc have their interpretation of lineal, and who may be lineal...

With all these titles and champions and super champions and interim champions no wonder it's flimsy...

loyatemu

walshb wrote: »

That's just it as regards lineal....

Different people and bodies etc have their interpretation of lineal, and who may be lineal...

With all these titles and champions and super champions and interim champions no wonder it's flimsy...

I guess he's going by the Ring Magazine title - they went with Vitali then Wlad but even they say Fury is no longer the champ because of inactivity.

yourdeadwright

loyatemu wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

His last lost was 10 years before it and it made him change style, With his new style of fighting he was unbeaten and looking unstoppable for a decade when he lost to Fury ,

who decided Wlad was the lineal champion though - the last lineal champion was Lewis, who retired.

Vitali was then described as the lineal champion as he was the last guy Lewis fought and was winning the fight when it was stopped; but obviously Wlad never fought Vitali. Fury's claim to be the lineal champ is pretty flimsy.

Well its because after Lewis stepped down ,Wlad beat Chagaev one of the belts on the line The ring belt which would be seen as the lineal championship ,
I think they have since gone there separate ways but anyway no one had a problem calling Wlad the lineal champ it just seems to be an issues when Fury beat him ,

nacho libre

So Wlad thinks Joshua beats Fury easily. I can't agree with that, if Fury has not lost a step it will a tough task. Joshua will struggle as he has little to no head movement, against a bigger man who is quite agile for his size and can bob and weave. Joshua's power maybe enough to decide it, but if it were to go to points i think Fury wins a wide decision.

yourdeadwright

nacho libre wrote: »

So Wlad  thinks Joshua beats Fury easily. I can't agree with that, if Fury has not lost a step it will a tough task. Joshua will struggle as he has little to no head movement, against a bigger man who is quite agile for his size and can  bob and weave. Joshua's power maybe enough to decide it, but if it were to go to points i think Fury wins a wide decision.

Wlad hates Fury and has always respected AJ so I wouldn't read into to it much,
Wald has said before he has no respect for Fury as a man, because of comments he has made during the years about gay people and other sensitive subjects ,

walshb

But you also have to factor in what Wlad experienced in the ring vs. Fury and AJ. He barely got touched by Fury the whole fight, but got hit a fair bit, and badly hurt vs. AJ. It shouldn't come as a surprise to see him believe that Fury won't beat AJ.

Yes, he may be saying this to stir it, but he may be genuine. It makes sense to me.

He likely believes that AJ absolutely gets to Fury, and has next to nothing to worry about as regards Fury's firepower.

yourdeadwright

walshb wrote: »

But you also have to factor in what Wlad experienced in the ring vs. Fury and AJ. He barely got touched by Fury the whole fight, but got hit a fair bit, and badly hurt vs. AJ. It shouldn't come as a surprise to see him believe that Fury won't beat AJ.

Yes, he may be saying this to stir it, but he may be genuine. It makes sense to me.

He likely believes that AJ absolutely gets to Fury, and has next to nothing to worry about as regards Fury's firepower.

At the same time Wlad was afraid to let his hand go against Fury but not against AJ , Wlad didn't get near Fury but got to AJ and nearly finished AJ so it works both ways,
See it can be done boith ways ,

walshb

yourdeadwright wrote: »

At the same time Wlad was afraid to let his hand go against Fury but not against AJ , Wlad didn't get near Fury but got to AJ and nearly finished AJ so it works both ways,
See it can be done boith ways ,

It can work both ways, but let's be real, it's boxing and the hurt game, and vs. Fury he didn't get one bit hurt. He experienced it against both,and nothing Fury did bothered him in the physical sense of being hurt.

Plus, I really doubt Wlad is thinking (because he had AJ hurt and ready to go) that somehow feather fisted Fury could do the trick...

The real likely way he could see Fury win is via a spoiling points win, but Wlad knows that AJ is not scared to commit and press and throw meaningful and spiteful punches for 12 rds, unlike him, which would really lessens Fury's chances at repeating the Wlad trick against AJ.

And he did let his hands go vs. Fury, at least as much, or close to the amount he let go vs. AJ (yes, we have been through the whole jabs/power punches lark).

Is it not possible that he is basing this off styles and how he sees Fury and AJ matching up?

I think I would be the exact same if I had the two fights that Wlad had.....

Wlad is likley kicking himself that he didn't show a little more courage vs. Fury.

He was gunshy, and it was not because he was getting hurt. He was simply boxing the way he always does, but this time it was against a taller and rangier man who was moving and making it very difficult for him. That is all it was.

yourdeadwright

walshb wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

At the same time Wlad was afraid to let his hand go against Fury but not against AJ , Wlad didn't get near Fury but got to AJ and nearly finished AJ so it works both ways,
See it can be done boith ways ,

It can work both ways, but let's be real, it's boxing and the hurt game, and vs. Fury he didn't get one bit hurt. He experienced it against both,and nothing Fury did bothered him in the physical sense of being hurt.

Plus, I really doubt Wlad is thinking (because he had AJ hurt and ready to go) that somehow feather fisted Fury could do the trick...

The real likely way he could see Fury win is via a spoiling points win, but Wlad knows that AJ is not scared to commit and press and throw meaningful and spiteful punches for 12 rds, unlike him, which would really lessens Fury's chances at repeating the Wlad trick against AJ.

And he did let his hands go vs. Fury, at least as much, or close to the amount he let go vs. AJ (yes, we have been through the whole jabs/power punches lark).

Is it not possible that he is basing this off styles and how he sees Fury and AJ matching up?

I think I would be the exact same if I had the two fights that Wlad had.....

Wlad is likley kicking himself that he didn't show a little more courage vs. Fury.

He was gunshy, and it was not because he was getting hurt. He was simply boxing the way he always does, but this time it was against a taller and rangier man who was moving and making it very difficult for him. That is all it was.

Boxing is not the hurt game , boxing is about winning within the rule set something Fury does brilliantly,
Wlad had 12 rounds to figure out Fury was pillow fisted as you say  and change his approach but he didn't as he knew if he opened up Fury would hurt him ,
He's a veteran but you  think he just decided to fight in his shell for no reason give me a break ,
Also Fury did hurt him once in round 10 when he held on for dear life and then the ref cut him some slack buy having a word with Fury ,
Fury doesn't have bombs but if you open up he will outbox you and it will take its toll, Wlad knew this,
I find you amazing you can never give Fury any bit of credit, its like his win was a total fluke to you and Wlad just decided to loss, You actually sound like Wlad in the second gloves  are off when he wouldn't anwer Fury when Fury kept question him on why he wouldn't throw his hands, just total denial .,
You know its ok to give Fury credit , it doesn't mean your hero AJ didn't do a good job to

yourdeadwright

Also how do you not understand the difference is Jabs and power punch's and calm Wlad fought the same way against AJ .,
Everyone who seen the fight could see Wlad was way more aggressive, as I said before double the power punch's is a huge difference ,If you can't recognise this there not much point speaking even a boxing newbee could see the difference,