Heavyweight Boxing

selectamatic

Joshua's last 3 opponents wlad, takam and Parker are hardly nobodies.

Apart from wilder instead of takam it's pretty hard make a case that anyone else should have been included.

I don't see anyone here comparing AJ to Mike Tyson. So again why is this being brought up?

@walshb you say you don't care about social media presence and that's fair enough. (I myself think it plays an integral part of modern stardom) but shur agree to disagree and all that.

But I cant see how talking about Ali or AJ's "nobody" opponents is any more relevant to the discussion.

walshb

selectamatic wrote: »

I don't see anyone here comparing AJ to Mike Tyson. So again why is this being brought up?

It was brought up due to folks saying how he is so much on another galaxy compared to Wilder....

In other words he is some kind of behemoth superstar. He is so not....

I said that it's not like he's the next Tyson or Ali....

I was around as a kid when Tyson came on the scene. No social media. A true global phenomenon he was. The number 1 sports star on earth during his prime reign.

I will leave it at: AJ being more known than Wilder, but not near superstar status yet.

And when discussing one's place in the world of sport and his fame and name recognition you can bring in different things.

One thing I mentioned was his filling out stadiums (home based stadiums) fighting nobodies....it's relevant because it brings about some perspective on it. He still has to fight outside the UK. Not saying this is the be all and end all. Just adding it.

walshb

selectamatic wrote: »

@walshb you say you don't care about social media presence and that's fair enough. (I myself think it plays an integral part of modern stardom) but shur agree to disagree and all that.
.

Personally, I do not bandy about the word star. Stars are special talents/people. Not just famous and known people....they are the cream of the crop. The names and people who emit something extra special. There is no dictionary definition of a star...

But in today's world any old sh1t can be labeled a star....

It's the world we live in...

Ed Sheerhan is a star..........says it all.

A bigger star than he is Kim Kardashian....

See where I'm going.......

carltonleon

AJ is far more marketable at the moment but that is just that he has a much bigger hype machine behind him. The simple fact of the matter is that after years of Vlad + Vitali domination, the boxing World (Promoters, federations etc) were desperate for some action and excitement and would literally have clung onto anyone who was able to provide it. Tyson was not the correct fit for promotion although he is for controversy but AJ with his hype train was a perfect fit. Young, Strong, Olympic Champion, Clean Cut etc. He was promoted to the hilt. So in terms of marketing he is a much bigger draw than Wilder, no doubt about that, in terms of World Superstar, not a chance yet. Look at what Lewis did by going to America etc, now he was a superstar.
In term of a boxing great, not close yet. Look at who he beat. Martin and Breazale are basically journeymen. Vlad was at the end of his career and still should have finished him off, Takam was a punchbag for him and Parker, who although very durable never looked like laying a glove on him and AJ still only beat him on points. This was the same Parker (albeit after an op on his shoulder or elbow, I can't remember which) that laboured to a points victory over Hughie Fury .....

squinn2912

carltonleon wrote: »

AJ is far more marketable at the moment but that is just that he has a much bigger hype machine behind him. The simple fact of the matter is that after years of Vlad + Vitali domination, the boxing World (Promoters, federations etc) were desperate for some action and excitement and would literally have clung onto anyone who was able to provide it. Tyson was not the correct fit for promotion although he is for controversy but AJ with his hype train was a perfect fit. Young, Strong, Olympic Champion, Clean Cut etc. He was promoted to the hilt. So in terms of marketing he is a much bigger draw than Wilder, no doubt about that, in terms of World Superstar, not a chance yet. Look at what Lewis did by going to America etc, now he was a superstar.
In term of a boxing great, not close yet. Look at who he beat. Martin and Breazale are basically journeymen. Vlad was at the end of his career and still should have finished him off, Takam was a punchbag for him and Parker, who although very durable never looked like laying a glove on him and AJ still only beat him on points. This was the same Parker (albeit after an op on his shoulder or elbow, I can't remember which) that laboured to a points victory over Hughie Fury .....

That’s a sensible argument right there. Part of the issue is that there isn’t a depth of talent out there, even if AJ were to beat wilder, fury and an improved, experienced joe Joyce/Daniel Dubois I don’t know if I’d consider him a superstar along the lines of Lewis, Bowe, Tyson etc

yourdeadwright

Listened to the last Bellew v Haye press conference, 
Bellew is some melter, he speak for 15 minutes and contradicts every thing he says ,
Its like he says something Haye agrees so Bellew says the opposite and its a never ending cycle,
Says he is mental strong but then calls himself a fat and crap in the next sentence so if he loses he can fall back on that,
He thinks he's intelligent and isn't at all ,

ebbsy

Haye is no Ali but he did win every round up until that injury.

squinn2912

Those two aren’t worth talking about. A nothing fight.

normanoffside

squinn2912 wrote: »

Those two aren’t worth talking about. A nothing fight.

Certainly not worth paying for anyway!

squinn2912

normanoffside wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

Those two aren’t worth talking about. A nothing fight.

Certainly not worth paying for anyway!

God no! Another clown affair.

Sebastian Dangerfield

If Haye does win and is serious about wanting to win a title, he needs to follow it up with a couple of big name fights. Instead he'll promote his own fights against the cheapest possible opponents, waiting for AJ to either have a voluntary or get stripped.

Im not a fan of Dillian Whyte but its hard not to like his attitude. Seems willing to fight anyone

walshb

Haye is on the con!

The Nal

Ill probably watch it in the hope of a vicious career ending double KO.

squinn2912

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »

If Haye does win and is serious about wanting to win a title, he needs to follow it up with a couple of big name fights. Instead he'll promote his own fights against the cheapest possible opponents, waiting for AJ to either have a voluntary or get stripped.

Im not a fan of Dillian Whyte but its hard not to like his attitude. Seems willing to fight anyone

Not a chance of that. He might fight one or two more easy options to maintain his decent record. When you look at it Bellew should be an absolute stroll for him but as you say he's on the con. I think he would take a title fight if it were sitting there for him but that would be a big ko against him. I think he's not recovered from the surgery and so a few fights against knock overs are all he can manage. Bellew isn't much better but at least he'd have a fight. 
Agree on the point about Whyte. Wants the violence. He is limited but the attitude is there. He might work his way into a big fight but I think he will be brutally knocked out and then some prospects will have overtaken him and he will be back down at European or British level and possibly will have lost the hunger.

normanoffside

walshb wrote: »

Haye is on the con!

I have seen videos of haye in training and he seems to not be engaging in any contact. Shadow boxing and tapping pads with no force.
I think he is as delicate as China, and they seem to wrapping him in cotton
Wool for the fight.

Might put a small wager on Bellew by points.

A Shaved Duck?

normanoffside wrote: »

I have seen videos of haye in training and he seems to not be engaging in any contact. Shadow boxing and tapping pads with no force.
I think he is as delicate as China, and they seem to wrapping him in cotton
Wool for the fight.

Might put a small wager on Bellew by points.

Im thinking the same... have a bet on bellew as the only option. Haye was finished 5 years ago ..

Wont be watching though, anybody that pays €25 for this needs their head examined.

walshb

A Shaved Duck? wrote: »

anybody that pays €25 for this needs their head examined.

I paid it.

It's just the climate now and recently. Two well know names.....

PPV is kind of here to stay..

squinn2912

Apologies if this comes up twice but I can't see a points win. Haye has to go for it. If he is behind on points then he has to swing at everything for the ko because if he loses this one he is finished. I think it will be frantic enough. Bellew can afford to be calm and even if he were to lose he'd have more options afterwards. Either Haye gets him with a big shot or he misses and Bellew tags him. I can't see him letting it go to points.

A Shaved Duck?

walshb wrote: »

I paid it.

It's just the climate now and recently. Two well know names.....

PPV is kind of here to stay..

Its part of the problem with PPV in general, this is at best a sideshow with a piss poor undercard.

Its your money and if you see the value i have a friend on the nigerian lottery board that would love to send you some information

walshb

A Shaved Duck? wrote: »

Its part of the problem with PPV in general, this is at best a sideshow with a piss poor undercard.

Its your money and if you see the value i have a friend on the nigerian lottery board that would love to send you some information

I don't see the value. I think it's a con. But I can afford to be conned out of 25 euro every now and again. In other words I don't ponder it too much. I love boxing.

normanoffside

squinn2912 wrote: »

Apologies if this comes up twice but I can't see a points win. Haye has to go for it. If he is behind on points then he has to swing at everything for the ko because if he loses this one he is finished. I think it will be frantic enough. Bellew can afford to be calm and even if he were to lose he'd have more options afterwards. Either Haye gets him with a big shot or he misses and Bellew tags him. I can't see him letting it go to points.

I don't think Bellew has the power to stop Haye unless he gets injured again.
It took him until the 11th to stop a 1 legged Haye last time...

A Shaved Duck?

walshb wrote: »

I don't see the value. I think it's a con. But I can afford to be conned out of 25 euro every now and again. In other words I don't ponder it too much. I love boxing.

Thus encouraging hearn to keep pushing the limits on whats PPV worthy and removing any chance of getting decent cards on Skysports.

Its a sad state of affairs when this fight is deemed worthy of PPV, they have not even sold out the O2 with 24 hours to go.

Sebastian Dangerfield

A Shaved Duck? wrote: »

Thus encouraging hearn to keep pushing the limits on whats PPV worthy and removing any chance of getting decent cards on Skysports.

Its a sad state of affairs when this fight is deemed worthy of PPV, they have not even sold out the O2 with 24 hours to go.

PPVs have never been a sign of high quality in boxing - it has always been about the highest spectacle / levels of attention, though there is generally some crossover.

Your point is like saying buying a ticket to The Avengers is stopping people from making decent original movies. It's entertainment, some people like things others don't, so we each buy the things we like.

I paid for the last one; I'm not around this weekend but I would buy this one if I was.

walshb

A Shaved Duck? wrote: »

Thus encouraging hearn to keep pushing the limits on whats PPV worthy and removing any chance of getting decent cards on Skysports.

Its a sad state of affairs when this fight is deemed worthy of PPV, they have not even sold out the O2 with 24 hours to go.

I see what you are saying...

But really it's a very individual choice.

I chose not to but some PPVs because they were IMO a disgrace.....

At least with this the two names are big enough known both locally and globally.

A Shaved Duck?

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »

PPVs have never been a sign of high quality in boxing - it has always been about the highest spectacle / levels of attention, though there is generally some crossover.

Your point is like saying buying a ticket to The Avengers is stopping people from making decent original movies. It's entertainment, some people like things others don't, so we each buy the things we like.

I paid for the last one; I'm not around this weekend but I would buy this one if I was.

Your anology is confusing at best.

If you see the value in paying €25 for 2 lads that are not relevant and an undercard that is very poor then good for you.

My main point is the more people pay for this dross the more hearn will push the limits.

megadodge

A Shaved Duck? wrote: »

Its part of the problem with PPV in general, this is at best a sideshow with a piss poor undercard.

Its your money and if you see the value i have a friend on the nigerian lottery board that would love to send you some information

A piss poor undercard?

Do you even know who's on the undercard?

I didnt buy the last one but am seriously thinking about buying this purely for the undercard.

Sebastian Dangerfield

A Shaved Duck? wrote: »

Your anology is confusing at best.

If you see the value in paying €25 for 2 lads that are not relevant and an undercard that is very poor then good for you.

My main point is the more people pay for this dross the more hearn will push the limits.

I certainly wouldn't call it value - it's extortionate. But I want to see the fight, streams never work so I'll pay it. If I went to the pub to watch it I'd spend a lot more than €25, so I'd make my decision on that basis.

A Shaved Duck?

megadodge wrote: »

A piss poor undercard?

Do you even know who's on the undercard?

I didnt buy the last one but am seriously thinking about buying this purely for the undercard.

Yeah i do, the usual mismatches with guys 1/100 on, and 2 competitive fights.

piss poor.

walshb

A Shaved Duck? wrote: »

Yeah i do, the usual mismatches with guys 1/100 on, and 2 competitive fights.

piss poor.

Agreed, but couple decent names....

Buatsi and Campbell are in absolute mismatches...

Ryder/Cox could be a nice tear up....

Butler always makes for decent viewing....

squinn2912

normanoffside wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

Apologies if this comes up twice but I can't see a points win. Haye has to go for it. If he is behind on points then he has to swing at everything for the ko because if he loses this one he is finished. I think it will be frantic enough. Bellew can afford to be calm and even if he were to lose he'd have more options afterwards. Either Haye gets him with a big shot or he misses and Bellew tags him. I can't see him letting it go to points.

I don't think Bellew has the power to stop Haye unless he gets injured again.
It took him until the 11th to stop a 1 legged Haye last time...

I get your point but I think bellew fought cautiously after the injury and that was sensible. If both are throwing then one gets ko’ed