Heavyweight Boxing

walshb

squinn2912 wrote: »

No he hasn’t but he didn’t have a number of retirements and false dawns like haye due to injuries.

Yes, like every word, it’s a word. Are you asking what I mean by shot? Finished, not up to it anymore.

By shot I was meaning levels...

Some would think shot is past one’s best. How far past is the question. Levels of “shot.”

Will folks be saying that Fury is shot should he look (June 9 and near future) clearly not the same fighter from 2014 and 2015...?

Might still be capable, just not at his best...is that shot or heading to being shot...?

If I see a Fury looking clearly less the fighter from a few years ago I would call it shot..

squinn2912

Ah yes I remember this point from before. I don’t know if there are levels of shot. I think when you’re shot it isn’t coming back. Fury could have his timing off and look poorer much like a fighter working too hard to make weight in lower divisions or who had a disrupted camp or personal problems can be ‘off’ for a night. It doesn’t mean they’re shot. In fury’s case I think we need to give it at least 2 fights and then decide

walshb

I will definitely give him a couple fights before deciding on what I think as regards where he is at..

nacho libre

So he won't fight Bellew because he is afraid of the damage he'd do to him, but has no problem taking on a cruiser who is 4 inches shorter than Bellew and almost 40. Joke of a comeback opponent. A quick win here won't tell us anything. If the rest of his proposed fights are the same level of opposition, the Haye comparisons are valid.

squinn2912

Yea that’s fair. For me he gets two ‘free’ fights at crap level. It’s difficult for him though because then he’s expected to take on the belt holders

Big Ears

walshb wrote: »

I will definitely give him a couple fights before deciding on what I think as regards where he is at..

I can tell you where you think he's at in two fights time now if you like ?

yourdeadwright

yourdeadwright wrote: »

walshb wrote: »

pac_man wrote: »

Sometimes I wonder do you post sh1te for attention seeking.

I don't buy it. Not with Fury, and there are many many out there who will uses the mental illness angle to try and explain their behavior..

Is there some code I have to agree with here, that I must not query these things.....just accept and believe it all?

Instead of posting a hostile one line reply maybe debate and argue it, otherwise jog fooking on.

I think people just think you looking for attention as its bene long documented that he has had mental problems,
As many have pointed out even when he was world champion its been mentioned it,
Watch the gloves are off type interview in the build up to the Wlad rematch that never took place, He clearly has mental issues,

walshb wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I think people just think you looking for attention as its bene long documented that he has had mental problems,
As many have pointed out even when he was world champion its been mentioned it,
Watch the gloves are off type interview in the build up to the Wlad rematch that never took place, He clearly has mental issues,

I don't give a fook if it's been documented...

I simply said I don't buy it with Fury.....that's all.

Nothing to do with seeking attention.....you disagree, fair enough. I wouldn't fall out with you over it

But to call someone attention seeking or a sh1te talker because they disagree on ONE thing with you is a sign of a pr1ck to me.

But why exactly do you not buy it ?
Why would his whole family speak about it ? why when he was on top of the world would he speak about it ?
It seem you have no rational thoughts as to why he'd pretend ,

yourdeadwright

I don't get why anyone is surprised by the opponent, It's obvious he was going to fight a dud for his firast fight and possibly his second there just work outs for him ,
In my opinion he is doing it the right way, he needs to get some ring time ,at, sparring never tells the full tail, you need a live fight to really tell where you are at,
Sure look at AJ his first 14 pro fights where against similar opponents that had zero chance of beating him ,
Tyson has been out 2 years he needs 2 gimmie fights and then work back up ,
I don't think he is done like Haye  (most of that is wear and tear)  but there is a worry the comeback won't last because of his mental problems, How long can he hold it all together is the big question, You need to get him in big fights soon enough to keep him focused but also make sure you let him get the rounds in , so its tuff balancing job ,

yourdeadwright

nacho libre wrote: »

So he won't fight Bellew because he is afraid of the damage he'd do to him, but has no problem taking on a cruiser who is 4 inches shorter than Bellew and almost 40. Joke of a comeback opponent. A quick win here won't tell us anything. If the rest of his proposed fights are the same level of opposition,  the Haye comparisons are valid.

Bellew has said he will only fight him in one of his first two comeback fights, As he knows that he can catch him cold, He said he won't fight him after that
Tyson is not stupid he knows he needs time , And Bellew knows he only has a chance when Tyson isn't on form, Neither will give the other what they want,
Bellew have made a killing off perfectly timed fights for Tony, like the Haye ones,

Subcomandante Marcos

He'll probably fight Briggs in September if the June night fight finished Early doors.

At least Briggs is a proper heavy weight and can box a bit, even if he is older than Newgrange.

squinn2912

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I don't get why anyone is surprised by the opponent, It's obvious he was going to fight a dud for his firast fight and possibly his second there just work outs for him ,
In my opinion he is doing it the right way, he needs to get some ring time ,at, sparring never tells the full tail, you need a live fight to really tell where you are at,
Sure look at AJ his first 14 pro fights where against similar opponents that had zero chance of beating him ,
Tyson has been out 2 years he needs 2 gimmie fights and then work back up ,
I don't think he is done like Haye  (most of that is wear and tear)  but there is a worry the comeback won't last because of his mental problems, How long can he hold it all together is the big question, You need to get him in big fights soon enough to keep him focused but also make sure you let him get the rounds in , so its tuff balancing job ,

That's exactly it. He has said as much himself. His first 2 (minimum) fights will be against doormen. It's taking the next step that will tell us more, presuming he gets through these guys. After 2.5 years in the wilderness surely we have to give him until 2019 to get going again.
Yep I could see Briggs being the next fight. That would represent a step up for sure. Notice how Haye let the talk of that fight die away though - I don't think he fancied it at all. He thought he could frighten Bellew and look how that turned out for him.

yourdeadwright

squinn2912 wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I don't get why anyone is surprised by the opponent, It's obvious he was going to fight a dud for his firast fight and possibly his second there just work outs for him ,
In my opinion he is doing it the right way, he needs to get some ring time ,at, sparring never tells the full tail, you need a live fight to really tell where you are at,
Sure look at AJ his first 14 pro fights where against similar opponents that had zero chance of beating him ,
Tyson has been out 2 years he needs 2 gimmie fights and then work back up ,
I don't think he is done like Haye  (most of that is wear and tear)  but there is a worry the comeback won't last because of his mental problems, How long can he hold it all together is the big question, You need to get him in big fights soon enough to keep him focused but also make sure you let him get the rounds in , so its tuff balancing job ,

That's exactly it. He has said as much himself. His first 2 (minimum) fights will be against doormen. It's taking the next step that will tell us more, presuming he gets through these guys. After 2.5 years in the wilderness surely we have to give him until 2019 to get going again.
Yep I could see Briggs being the next fight. That would represent a step up for sure. Notice how Haye let the talk of that fight die away though - I don't think he fancied it at all. He thought he could frighten Bellew and look how that turned out for him.

I agree with you ,
Haye was done a long time ago, If you re-watch the fight in round 4 or 55 one of the sky commentators mentioned that Hayes was in Germany with the specialist midweek, No one replied and it was never mentioned again ,They all knew he was finished and said nothing to sell the fight,
Also pre fight they cut to his dressing room and he was doing ground ladders for footwork and he was going slower than my nan,
Paulie Malignaggi from round one kept mentioning how Haye was leaning onto his front foot while moving around the ring, something a novice would know not to do (obviously doing it due to injury ), and again the rest of the sky team ignored this,
The fight was a total con job ,.

yourdeadwright

squinn2912 wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I don't get why anyone is surprised by the opponent, It's obvious he was going to fight a dud for his firast fight and possibly his second there just work outs for him ,
In my opinion he is doing it the right way, he needs to get some ring time ,at, sparring never tells the full tail, you need a live fight to really tell where you are at,
Sure look at AJ his first 14 pro fights where against similar opponents that had zero chance of beating him ,
Tyson has been out 2 years he needs 2 gimmie fights and then work back up ,
I don't think he is done like Haye  (most of that is wear and tear)  but there is a worry the comeback won't last because of his mental problems, How long can he hold it all together is the big question, You need to get him in big fights soon enough to keep him focused but also make sure you let him get the rounds in , so its tuff balancing job ,

That's exactly it. He has said as much himself. His first 2 (minimum) fights will be against doormen. It's taking the next step that will tell us more, presuming he gets through these guys. After 2.5 years in the wilderness surely we have to give him until 2019 to get going again.
Yep I could see Briggs being the next fight. That would represent a step up for sure. Notice how Haye let the talk of that fight die away though - I don't think he fancied it at all. He thought he could frighten Bellew and look how that turned out for him.

I agree with you ,
Haye was done a long time ago, If you re-watch the fight in round 4 or 55 one of the sky commentators mentioned that Hayes was in Germany with the specialist midweek, No one replied and it was never mentioned again ,They all knew he was finished and said nothing to sell the fight,
Also pre fight they cut to his dressing room and he was doing ground ladders for footwork and he was going slower than my nan,
Paulie Malignaggi from round one kept mentioning how Haye was leaning onto his front foot while moving around the ring, something a novice would know not to do (obviously doing it due to injury ), and again the rest of the sky team ignored this,
The fight was a total con job ,.

walshb

I don't think folks are surprised that Fury's return opponent is d1rt. Just commenting on it being so, that's all.

His comeback needs to be looked at in more detail. He has been, the past 2-3 years spouting off how he is the real champ and how he beats everyone handily.

I think he was mouthing off about how he beats them all with little to no preparation.....yes, I know, all bluster......but then he comes out with this opponent. Just worth a bit of banter and discussion, that's all.

The Nal

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I agree with you ,
Haye was done a long time ago, If you re-watch the fight in round 4 or 55 one of the sky commentators mentioned that Hayes was in Germany with the specialist midweek, No one replied and it was never mentioned again ,They all knew he was finished and said nothing to sell the fight,
Also pre fight they cut to his dressing room and he was doing ground ladders for footwork and he was going slower than my nan,
Paulie Malignaggi from round one kept mentioning how Haye was leaning onto his front foot while moving around the ring, something a novice would know not to do (obviously doing it due to injury ), and again the rest of the sky team ignored this,
The fight was a total con job ,.

Bellew knew Haye was injured aswell. Had his sparring partners pretending to have an injured achilles.

Total con. Glad I streamed it for free.

squinn2912

It was. And that's why it's accurate to say that there's a difference with Fury. The comparisons will be valid if the outcome is the same. Other than that it's both have come back after a period out with some question marks over the motivation. It turns out that Haye was never really in a position to come back so he fought two cans and then one money spinner that he got two paydays out of. Bellew is past his best as well but he took the money spinner too and now has probably one more move to make. He's done very well out of it. The whole series of episodes have given Haye the bit of exposure to launch the promotional name so it's served its purpose. He can move on. For Fury if he is actually motivated to reclaim his titles and can stay that way then physically it's different for him. If it's all thunder then AJ will have an easy night's work in front of him after Fury has opened 2-3 cans and both will get something of a payday. What my hope is that Fury has the grit back and fights two cans, then moves up in class to someone who is a realistic threat before taking on a belt holder. That may not be the smartest thing to do from a business point of view, but if he truly believes he can win back the titles then I think that's the best option.

yourdeadwright

squinn2912 wrote: »

It was. And that's why it's accurate to say that there's a difference with Fury. The comparisons will be valid if the outcome is the same. Other than that it's both have come back after a period out with some question marks over the motivation. It turns out that Haye was never really in a position to come back so he fought two cans and then one money spinner that he got two paydays out of. Bellew is past his best as well but he took the money spinner too and now has probably one more move to make. He's done very well out of it. The whole series of episodes have given Haye the bit of exposure to launch the promotional name so it's served its purpose. He can move on. For Fury if he is actually motivated to reclaim his titles and can stay that way then physically it's different for him. If it's all thunder then AJ will have an easy night's work in front of him after Fury has opened 2-3 cans and both will get something of a payday. What my hope is that Fury has the grit back and fights two cans, then moves up in class to someone who is a realistic threat before taking on a belt holder. That may not be the smartest thing to do from a business point of view, but if he truly believes he can win back the titles then I think that's the best option.

To me Fury truly believes he can be champions again ,
He is not like Haye , its been clear for a while Hayes only motivation has been a quick cash in, That is something that has never really motivated Fury ,
IF the come back comes off or not is one thing but I think Fury is in it to be champion not to make a few quick bucks,

dougm1970

fury not making a hatton-esqe mistake with the opponent after this long out.

squinn2912

yourdeadwright wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

It was. And that's why it's accurate to say that there's a difference with Fury. The comparisons will be valid if the outcome is the same. Other than that it's both have come back after a period out with some question marks over the motivation. It turns out that Haye was never really in a position to come back so he fought two cans and then one money spinner that he got two paydays out of. Bellew is past his best as well but he took the money spinner too and now has probably one more move to make. He's done very well out of it. The whole series of episodes have given Haye the bit of exposure to launch the promotional name so it's served its purpose. He can move on. For Fury if he is actually motivated to reclaim his titles and can stay that way then physically it's different for him. If it's all thunder then AJ will have an easy night's work in front of him after Fury has opened 2-3 cans and both will get something of a payday. What my hope is that Fury has the grit back and fights two cans, then moves up in class to someone who is a realistic threat before taking on a belt holder. That may not be the smartest thing to do from a business point of view, but if he truly believes he can win back the titles then I think that's the best option.

To me Fury truly believes he can be champions again ,
He is not like Haye , its been clear for a while Hayes only motivation has been a quick cash in, That is something that has never really motivated Fury ,
IF the come back comes off or not is one thing but I think Fury is in it to be champion not to make a few quick bucks,

I really hope you're right about that. If he's serious then he'll be hard to stop and it makes for brilliant viewing.

The Nal

Eric Molina banned for two years for failing a drug test after the Joshua fight.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/boxing/44212756

yourdeadwright

The Nal wrote: »

Eric Molina banned for two years for failing a drug test after the Joshua fight.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/boxing/44212756

Very  odd, surely taking it the day of the fight would have no benefits to your performance ?,

squinn2912

Wasn't a huge amount of help to him! It's rife. I think the bans need to be more harsh.

walshb

squinn2912 wrote: »

Wasn't a huge amount of help to him! It's rife. I think the bans need to be more harsh.

"The steroid is permitted by the World Anti-Doping Agency (Wada) out of competition."

It is also not performance enhancing. Although reading the paragraph below it looks contradictory to me...

"Dexamethasone is not a performance-enhancing drug but is used to treat conditions including asthma and cancer. It is prohibited during competition because it can give endurance athletes an unfair advantage, especially at altitude."

The stupidity of these doping rules and what is and what is not permitted.....

Joe_ Public

walshb wrote: »

"The steroid is permitted by the World Anti-Doping Agency (Wada) out of competition."

It is also not performance enhancing. Although reading the paragraph below it looks contradictory to me...

"Dexamethasone is not a performance-enhancing drug but is used to treat conditions including asthma and cancer. It is prohibited during competition because it can give endurance athletes an unfair advantage, especially at altitude."

The stupidity of these doping rules and what is and what is not permitted.....

Ha...surely the only stupidity worth talking about is a guy taking a banned drug on the day of competing.

walshb

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Ha...surely the only stupidity worth talking about is a guy taking a banned drug on the day of competing.

I think that is a bit black and white here....

And it can be for many examples.....the reports suggests that there was intention to cheat, add this to the ridiculous contradictory information on the substance, and.......?

squinn2912

Hard to know. On reading it again he didn’t deny anything and it seems it was to get rid of an on the day problem.... but if it’s on the list it’s on the list.
The best of it is he was going to get KO’ed either way. Had he left it alone he could be building up for eliminator fights with the likes of Whyte or Parker either headlining or on big HW undercards. He might not serve the entire ban

Joe_ Public

walshb wrote: »

I think that is a bit black and white here....

And it can be for many examples.....the reports suggests that there was intention to cheat, add this to the ridiculous contradictory information on the substance, and.......?

Sure, but black and white describes the rule. Athlete responsible for all substances he or she ingests. Could it be any simpler? No grey areas.

There may have been no intention to cheat, i'll grant you that. But the least any athlete taking an injection of any substance on the day of competition should be on the look out for is the possibility of contamination. Schoolboy error to get caught out like that, whatever the intention of taking it. For gross stupidity alone, i dont see why he shouldnt get the full 2 years.

walshb

Anyway, is he the first sports competitor to ever take a performance reducing drug, that is the real question.....?

yourdeadwright

walshb wrote: »

Anyway, is he the first sports competitor to ever take a performance reducing drug, that is the real question.....?

Id argue some of the MMA lads who have been done for weed in there system ,
 Surely can't help in a fight ,
Although I guess some may argue helps you relax ,

FTA69

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Id argue some of the MMA lads who have been done for weed in there system ,
 Surely can't help in a fight ,
Although I guess some may argue helps you relax ,

Does it f*ck. Sanctioning people for stuff that isn't performance enhancing is ridiculous.