Heavyweight Boxing

squinn2912

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120581181#Comment_120581181

I agree. I dont really wanna see Allen getting beefed any more. He’s a nice lad and a good talker, do that, he hasn’t got much business fighting any more. Decent showings against ORtiz and Whyte and a good ko against Webb/Browne. Leave it at that.

Don’t rate Clarke but it would be an opportunity for him to show something and he is ambitious/not broken yet. I think Wardley stops him, I dont think his jab game from amaturs will carry through

OmegaGene

Joe joyce has an interview with ifltv where he’s asked if he had a game plan and he’s lost for words

squinn2912

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120600241#Comment_120600241

Holy Christ that was a very bad interview. Terrible. He hadn’t a clue what to say, no idea what the plan was and couldn’t even touch on it. The bit about the rematch and tune ups as well went away over his head. Not a lot of real belief there either he should have been telling him right get Joshua in with me and we’ll see what happens. He’s not like a fella who is going to really challenge. No mention of let me take care of Zhang and then Fury can take me on. All very watery and feeble. Watching that I could actually see Zhang do the same thing and I was certain Joyce would beat him.

OmegaGene

looks like dubois has parted ways with shane mcguigan

purse bids for usyk set for the 25th

squinn2912

How do you all rate Dubois chance against Usyk? I think it could be a very dangerous fight for Usyk. He has a lot of avoiding to do and will need to rely on super fitness. I think he’s vulnerable.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120605768#Comment_120605768

Vulnerable to a KO is all. I mean, you could say that about any match ever where one boxer can punch a bit. He’s too slow, and more damaging for him, too immobile!!

and I think Usyk has a good chin.. I’d make Usyk 10-1 on

reclose

I wonder would Dubois benefit more by skipping this fight and work through the levels a bit more.

He's young enough to hang back a bit and get more experience.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120605906#Comment_120605906

He’s 6 years a pro and aged 26/27. He has a huge opportunity here. Has to take it. Hang back? And risk getting banjoed to never be in this position again.

He’s not going to magically improve by hanging back, and with the sloth like pace these champions fight at, he may never see this opportunity again.

OmegaGene

It was announced that if dubois refuses the fight or can’t fight due to injury then it goes to next in line which is wilder 🤷‍♂️

reclose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120605939#Comment_120605939

I’m 3 years time he’ll be 30 and the current top 4 will probably be gone.

I don’t think he beats the top 4 right now.

Ikozma

I watched ali/foreman on YouTube the other night,does anyone think if there was a rematch back then that Ali would win again?

I'm 100% confident George would have been a bit cuter the 2nd time and battered him,would Ali be known as the greatest now if that was the case,or would foreman have gone on to be totally dominant for years instead of the way he ended up.

I know we'll never know but it just got me thinking

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120606137#Comment_120606137

Ali showed in that fight that intelligence is a huge part of boxing.

I think he'd have found a way to outsmart Foreman again.

The old George Foreman that we seen was a much more rounded and smart man in comparison to the man Ali beat.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120606137#Comment_120606137

How does he batter him? Ali was so so tough, clever and resourceful; and remember, he was pinging George all night, and hurting him.

George cuter? As in sits back more, slows pace? Yes, might see him go 12 rds, but he still has to fight to win. What you think Ali is doing in there that sees George batter him just because George is “cuter?”

squinn2912

I think Dubois is quicker than you are saying. He throws a decent jab and has big power. I’d expect him to fight Usyk the way Joshua should have first time.

If George and Ali fought 10 times George is likely most often the favourite. Ali was the master at finding a way. He has the speed on George. He knows that if George can’t land clean then he can take the shots or ride them. It was never as simple as George punching himself out. I’d fancy Ali to always have a tactic that George wouldn’t expect. So it’s 7-3 for Ali but yea, we’ll never know. What about George vs Tyson while we’re at it?

normanoffside

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120606378#Comment_120606378

Yes, people often forget that Ali was (deservedly) up on the cards when the fight was stopped. If Foreman had paced himself better then Ali would have been further up.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120605768#Comment_120605768

i mean all fights at HW are dangerous but i cant see Dubois getting to Usyk.

OmegaGene

If dubois can catch Usyk he has a chance but fmd Usyk is quick on his feet and with his hands and body too

dubois hits very hard but it’s finding the place to land tbe blow and timing it perfectly

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120607112#Comment_120607112

Yep. Foreman has a number ways to approach a rematch, and in my view all see Ali still win 9/10 times.

1. Really reduces the pace and offense and tries to outbox Ali: loses every time. Why? Ali's foot and hand-speed. And he has the length and range to get to George
2. Reduces the pace and offense slightly, and is still quite aggressive. Best way to win I feel because he could be fitter from this. Still I'd back Ali to weather the offense and outland George with cleaner work, while not being knocked out himself.
3. Trains very very very hard and goes hell for leather ala 1974 Rumble. Hopes the extra training sees him last the pace. Risky, but could work; albeit Ali again takes what George has and fires back cleaner and better work

Ali in the early to mid 70s was the strongest Ali of all. Physically at peak in terms of strength and durability and fitness. Solid chin, very fit, and very tough. George can't KO this man. Ali also had decent power in his late 20s and early 30s, so George cannot expect not to be hurt, dazed, dropped.

Ali of the early to mid 1970s beats George from the mid 1970s 9/10 times, possibly 99/100 times...

Ikozma

As foreman said "Ali came to box,I came to kill him" I just feel that if George came in with a calmer less hothead approach he would have had a much better chance of beating Ali,all this Ali would beat foreman 9 times outta 10 or 99 times out of 100 is nonsense tbh.

Ali had 2 very tough fights against fraizer which could have gone either way and lost the first fight ,whereas George destroyed joe,for this reason alone I wouldn't say Ali beats George practically every time

Ikozma

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120607793#Comment_120607793

All very good points tbf,and I appreciate your answer,I just don't think Ali would be that dominant over George if they did have 10 fights in row ,I feel it would be a 50/50 thing

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120610382#Comment_120610382

Styles make fights. Ali much much more difficult for Foreman than Frazier or Norton, who both beat Ali.

There’s nothing nonsense in believing that Ali having the skills, tools, resiliency and belief beats George in a rematch. I reckon he beats him, whether it’s one fight or 100… he beats him every time.

and you haven’t outlined why a calmer and less hotheaded Foreman does much better. How? I don’t automatically buy this notion that a calmer Foreman does “much better.” Is allowing Ali more space and time (due to Foreman being calmer/less aggressive) advantageous to Foreman, or Ali?

Ali is faster with feet/hands, better conditioned fighter, better chin, better cardio management, better feel/movement in the ring, calmer, cooler and more polished.

Foreman hits harder and is arguably physically stronger. Sorry, he’s not winning near 50 percent here.

squinn2912

Ali played him wonderfully. Got him mad in the first round and made him lose focus. He then allowed him to huff and puff without getting right through. It took serious courage to invite a monster like that into the fire.

I feel that Foreman could have a serious chance against Ali in a rematch but there is only so much you can learn. He is slower and takes much longer to get shots off. Effective against anyone who stands there or can’t get away but Ali had such better footwork and handspeed. Foreman would have had big trouble having the gas tank to last it with Ali. His best chance may have been against an earlier Ali/Clay who was prone to being caught like with Henry Cooper. Cooper gave Ali plenty of difficult moments but how would he fare out against Liston say or even foreman. He’d get ironed.

walshb

Ail in 1962 and 1963 was a kid, physically.

OmegaGene

Fury is on social media again, he said ruiz wanted 20m and he’s asking Warren to sort him a fight in nw England for July or august

squinn2912

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613899#Comment_120613899

He was but he was still the champ by the time of the second fight in 1966

squinn2912

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613916#Comment_120613916

I’d love to go to that!

Joeseph Balls

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613916#Comment_120613916

Back on a few mins ago, basically called out Jones, Ngannu and Usyk. Telling Usyk to take the 30% and no rematch clause and sign the contract.

I thought he offered 50/50 :rolleyes:

squinn2912

“Ya little cowardly, ugly bastard”

Holy God. Is Tyson becoming a little bit unhinged. Bast chance for the rest is he beats himself. If he gets to the ring hes always going to take some beating.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613982#Comment_120613982

Yes. Ali was 24 in 1966, and definitely more physically mature compared to a few years earlier.

I actually think a 1970s Foreman has a clearly better chance against the younger 1960s Ali.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120614349#Comment_120614349

Just goes to show all this “mental health be kind” talk was always just utter waffle and deflection.

Amazed at some folks falling for his crap.. world today explains away their poor behaviours with mental health waffle.