Heavyweight Boxing

yourdeadwright · 13-06-2018 11:11am

squinn2912 wrote: »

Jaysus lads the knives are out here. Remember we're all entitled to an opinion and to disagree with another's.
I'd be happy enough for the AP AJ fight to be announced and would look forward to Wilder vs DB as well. Both very winnable fights for the champs. Poor Whyte will have a fit if he beats Parker and still no title shot. If it goes to points then he will likely get a soft decision and I'm not sure I see Parker KOing him.
The big fight, of course, is Wilder Vs Joshua. Hard to pick a winner for sure. All the belts on the line. Quite the opposite of the frustration experienced with Lewis and Bowe (although obviously a different class of fighter). A mate of mine was talking about the excitement of AJ vs Parker but it did turn out to be forgettable so that can happen but with the KO inclination of both Wilder and AJ I think it's a different fight altogether. There could be a number of dull rounds but at some point it'll be bombs away.

Your correct everyone entitled to there opinion,
I just can't get excited to watch AJ v AP ,
AP has been awful of late and just another gimme fight I can't see how he deserves a title fight at all,

walshb · 13-06-2018 11:13am

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

No one on the planet must know boxing like you then ya condescending d!ck. Your probably the only person bar AP who'd prefer to see that fight an thinks it'd be better than wilder - AJ.

Keep your jocks on....

The poster was kind of insinuating that I was mad and deliberately saying this and that to be different.

100 percent honest I would probably rather watch AJ/Povtetkin from a spectacle point of view.....shoot me.

The only reason I went off sounding condescending (your words) was in response to the poster trying to bait me....

You know, I will fight back from time to time.......deal with it.

walshb · 13-06-2018 11:15am

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

No one on the planet must know boxing like you then ya condescending d!ck. Your probably the only person bar AP who'd prefer to see that fight an thinks it'd be better than wilder - AJ.

btw,

what makes one match better than another? Is it just the names of the boxers, or are there more reasons why?

Nobody can know what fight will be "better" until both are finished....

I honestly expect Wilder-AJ to be over in 3 rds with not much real skills or action or depth....

walshb · 13-06-2018 11:18am

Just an example:

Maywether and Manny.....two p4p top fighters when they fought...

Fight was a stinker....

Fury-Wlad...two top rated HWs when they fought........fight was a stinker.

Both fights there were pretty poor spectacles from a true boxing/fighting perspective

Names don't mean sh1t sometimes....

yourdeadwright · 13-06-2018 11:21am

walshb wrote: »

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

No one on the planet must know boxing like you then ya condescending d!ck. Your probably the only person bar AP who'd prefer to see that fight an thinks it'd be better than wilder - AJ.

btw,

what makes one match better than another? Is it just the names of the boxers, or are there more reasons why?

Nobody can know what fight will be "better" until both are finished....

I honestly expect Wilder-AJ to be over in 3 rds with not much real skills or action or depth....

People want to see the best fight its that simply,
Its like saying to a football fan would you like to watch United v City or United v Sunderland
In any sport you want to see the two best against each other its not that hard to understand,

walshb · 13-06-2018 11:26am

yourdeadwright wrote: »

People want to see the best fight its that simply,
Its like saying to a football fan would you like to watch United v City or United v Sunderland
In any sport you want to see the two best against each other its not that hard to understand,

Hold on....

let's be clear......

Wanting to see the best fight/fighters and it being the best fight/fights aren't always the case....any half educated sports fan will know this....

Like I said, sometimes names and ratings mean sh1t as regards what happens when they meet and square off...

100 percent AJ/Wilder is the biggest fight as regards the two top names in the division.....

Will they give us a great fight? Let's wait and see.....

But I have no issue with anyone saying that they would rather see two others fight "because they think that two others may give us a better boxing match/display."

There are countless examples one could use......

I'd prefer to see Danny Garcia-Porter than Spence-Thurman.....

Spence-Thurman are the top two......

But I reckon Garcia-Porter makes for a better fight and spectacle......

squinn2912 · 13-06-2018 11:26am

eliminatorsHmm I get what you're saying. He's got some names on the record and a valiant loss to Wlad as well. I think he should have made more of himself but Russia has it's own complexities. His better work is well in the past too and the drugs cheating doesnt sit well with me and he's been caught a number of times. A big KO of Price doesn't indicate that he is still world level so I think he should have to have fought some of the other gatekeepers in eliminators. But having said that I'd have him more worthy of the shot than the likes of Molina, Breazale, Martin or Szpilka and probably on a similar standing to Ortiz (before the Wilder fight), Whyte, Hughie Fury.
He's in the mix and the Price fight was to build him up so him getting the AJ fight makes logic. I convinced myself to be patient waiting on the Wilder AJ fight to come around and there could be a few more twists yet.

yourdeadwright · 13-06-2018 11:27am

walshb wrote: »

Just an example:

Maywether and Manny.....two p4p top fighters when they fought...

Fight was a stinker....

Fury-Wlad...two top rated HWs when they fought........fight was a stinker.

Both fights there were pretty poor spectacles from a true boxing/fighting perspective

Names don't mean sh1t sometimes....

See this is funny, you said I don't understand boxing but Its obvious you only watch boxing for specular fights,
You don't appreciate the whole game , you come across as a casual fan who really just watches for the highlight finishes and doesn't appreciate the ring craft and skill that's involved
The two fights you mentioned where clinic's in how to shut down your opponent,
Two guys won with ease against there opponents who where suppose to be there toughest challenges ,
Pacman and Wlad had no answers and where made dance to a different tune and lost , both fights where super impressive

walshb · 13-06-2018 11:34am

yourdeadwright wrote: »

See this is funny, you said I don't understand boxing but Its obvious you only watch boxing for specular fights,
You don't appreciate the whole game , you come across as a casual fan who really just watches for the highlight finishes and doesn't appreciate the ring craft and skill that's involved
The two fights you mentioned where clinic's in how to shut down your opponent,
Two guys won with ease against there opponents who where suppose to be there toughest challenges ,
Pacman and Wlad had no answers and where made dance to a different tune and lost , both fights where super impressive

Grand...

But plenty of boxing fans and purists didn't rate it.

You liked both....good for you.

I expect a lot more......

I could give you countless examples of clinics where both men showed a lot more in many areas than Wlad-Fury and Pac-Mayweather

So, are you saying that several of the posters who post here who didn't at all rate either fight are casual fans who don't know boxing, or is it just me?

yourdeadwright · 13-06-2018 11:37am

walshb wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

People want to see the best fight its that simply,
Its like saying to a football fan would you like to watch United v City or United v Sunderland
In any sport you want to see the two best against each other its not that hard to understand,

Hold on....

let's be clear......

Wanting to see the best fight/fighters and it being the best fight/fights aren't always the case....any half educated sports fan will know this....

Like I said, sometimes names and ratings mean sh1t as regards what happens when they meet and square off...

100 percent AJ/Wilder is the biggest fight as regards the two top names in the division.....

Will they give us a great fight? Let's wait and see.....

But I have no issue with anyone saying that they would rather see two others fight "because they think that two others may give us a better boxing match/display."

There are countless examples one could use......

I'd prefer to see Danny Garcia-Porter than Spence-Thurman.....

Spence-Thurman are the top two......

But I reckon Garcia-Porter makes for a better fight and spectacle......

Again your not getting most fans don't care if fight turns out to be a bore
They just want to see the top 2 guys fight to see who is number one,
I don't want to see the top guys smashing people with no hope, if the fight is a bore its a bore but we still find out who is the better man and who knows how to get the job done,
AJ is blasting people out of it , if someone comes up with a plan to make it a bore fest but beat him then they should be celebrated ,
You do what you have to do to win , its the same as any sport if you can beat someone within the rule set then do it, its up to them to stop you ,

walshb · 13-06-2018 11:41am

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Two guys won with ease against there opponents who where suppose to be there toughest challenges ,
Pacman and Wlad had no answers and where made dance to a different tune and lost , both fights where super impressive

Utter nonsense...

Plenty people had Manny winning that fight, and several had it very very close.....

You don't win an fight with ease by barely landing any meaningful punches...

Not really sure you understand the sport....

yourdeadwright · 13-06-2018 11:43am

I could give you countless examples of clinics where both men showed a lot more in many areas than Wlad-Fury and Pac-Mayweather

See the bit above, yes we all could but these matches where suppose to be there biggest treats so its obviously going to be harder to look good ,
Why should Mayweather or Fury take any chances in there biggest fights of there life's ?
They got the job done in the least dangerous way possible,
Its up to Pacman and Wlad to stop them and they couldn't end of,
Do you really expect them to fight in a way to give the other guys a chance ?
I for one will always want to see number1 v number 2 when it is possible

walshb · 13-06-2018 11:44am

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Again your not getting most fans don't care if fight turns out to be a bore
,

As always you are seeing things that are not there.

I never said otherwise....I am well aware many want to see the top boxers fighting each other. I am one of these....but not in every single instance. There may be times when I just might prefer to see two others fight.......is that so deluded?

You really do go off one one and start seeing things that people aren't saying....it then goes pear shaped because of this...

yourdeadwright · 13-06-2018 11:48am

walshb wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Two guys won with ease against there opponents who where suppose to be there toughest challenges ,
Pacman and Wlad had no answers and where made dance to a different tune and lost , both fights where super impressive

Utter nonsense...

Plenty people had Manny winning that fight, and several had it very very close.....

You don't win an fight with ease by barely landing any meaningful punches...

Not really sure you understand the sport....

Your some joker
Mayweather landed 67 jabs to Pacmans 18
Mayweather landed 81 powerhsots to Pacmans 63
In what world did pacman even come close to wining that fight, You literally just said " You don't win an fight with ease by barely landing any meaningful punches "
Mayweather outlanded Pacman every where

walshb · 13-06-2018 11:49am

waiting for an answer as regards those (and those here) who thought Pac-Floyd was a stinker are just causal fans who don't know boxing?

walshb · 13-06-2018 11:49am

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Your some joker
Mayweather landed 67 jabs to Pacmans 18
Mayweather landed 81 powerhsots to Pacmans 63
In what world did pacman even come close to wining that fight, You literally just said " You don't win an fight with ease by barely landing any meaningful punches "
Mayweather outlanded Pacman every where

Seriously, you need to broaden your knowledge from compubox...

and it's you're!

squinn2912 · 13-06-2018 11:57am

I'd watch you lads box! Settle down.
I was sorry I bothered to wait up for Pac/May but more because it was fairy predictable. I was sort of glad because my brother was picking Pac all day long and I thought that was insane. I wouldn't call it a stinker because it was significant and eventually belatedly settled an argument but it wasn't entertaining really.
Fury Wlad I really enjoyed because Wlad was meant to batter him and it's when Fury turned from being a joker into something else. He's a fantastic defensive boxer and that night reinvented himself from a clumsy brawler. I like the chess match fights too but then I'm also a snooker fan. I do prefer the exciting fights but try to appreciate all. The ability to nullify is perhaps under celebrated.
I think both you guys have a point.

yourdeadwright · 13-06-2018 12:06pm

walshb wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Your some joker
Mayweather landed 67 jabs to Pacmans 18
Mayweather landed 81 powerhsots to Pacmans 63
In what world did pacman even come close to wining that fight, You literally just said " You don't win an fight with ease by barely landing any meaningful punches "
Mayweather outlanded Pacman every where

Seriously, you need to broaden your knowledge from compubox...

and it's you're!

Man seriously how could anyone in there right mind argue Pacman won that fight will you give over,
I only stated from compubox cause of your own statement "You don't win an fight with ease by barely landing any meaningful punches "
Mayweather made easy work of Pacman didn't even have to get out of second gear,

yourdeadwright · 13-06-2018 12:08pm

I think there no point arguing as we obviously see things very differently,
Your a rock and sockem fan and I like it all to be honest,
Each to there own

walshb · 13-06-2018 12:09pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Mayweather made easy work of Pacman didn't even have to get out of second gear,

Definitely watching on Sky then......

walshb · 13-06-2018 12:12pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I think there no point arguing as we obviously see things very differently,
Your a rock and sockem fan and I like it all to be honest,
Each to there own

You are wrong there....I appreciate clinics just as much as barn burners...

If I see a stinker I will call it as so...

Hardly alone in thinking the May-Pac and Wlad-Fury fights were just that.

You then wanting to call this as me being a casual fan who doesn't appreciate the sport........that's being a bit of a d1ck.....to me and several others here...

yourdeadwright · 13-06-2018 12:15pm

walshb wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Mayweather made easy work of Pacman didn't even have to get out of second gear,

Definitely watching on Sky then......

I actually watched that one in that states so HBO ,
Just out of interest which experts thought Pacman won ,
Even the most diehard Pacman fans can't seriously make a argument for him wining that fight , He was simply out classed,
Personally I think he was already on his down turn and it may have been different 5 yeas earlier but that night he was beaten quite easy ,

walshb · 13-06-2018 12:18pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I actually watched that one in that states so HBO ,
Just out of interest which experts thought Pacman won ,
Even the most diehard Pacman fans can't seriously make a argument for him wining that fight , He was simply out classed,
Personally I think he was already on his down turn and it may have been different 5 yeas earlier but that night he was beaten quite easy ,

I never said experts thought he won....

I do recall that several boxers gave him the nod......

Plenty online as well.....

In other words, there were mixed reviews and calls on it......

I did not at all see an easy win.........

I have plenty posts on this fight when it happened.....people disagreed with me and there were others who agreed with me, or saw my points as valid.

A huge point made was the ridiculous OTT fawning for Mayweather on Sky. Any time he moved he was heaped with praise. It was embarrassing.

yourdeadwright · 13-06-2018 12:21pm

walshb wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I think there no point arguing as we obviously see things very differently,
Your a rock and sockem fan and I like it all to be honest,
Each to there own

You are wrong there....I appreciate clinics just as much as barn burners...

If I see a stinker I will call it as so...

Hardly alone in thinking the May-Pac and Wlad-Fury fights were just that.

You then wanting to call this as me being a casual fan who doesn't appreciate the sport........that's being a bit of a d1ck.....to me and several others here...

I said you come across as a causal fan if you cant see the skill involved in both win and how Pacman and Wlad has no answer's ,
To me you seem to dismiss it as you don't like Fury and by the sounds of things hoped Pacman would beat Mayweather,
I wouldn't get to upset over someone online saying you come across as a casual fan,
Its just my opinion ,I'm not having a go at you i'm sure your a decent bloke, we all have opinions and that's ok . I'm sure many people disagree with me and I'm ok with that to,

walshb · 13-06-2018 12:24pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I said you come across as a causal fan if you cant see the skill involved in both win and how Pacman and Wlad has no answer's ,
To me you seem to dismiss it as you don't like Fury and by the sounds of things hoped Pacman would beat Mayweather,
I wouldn't get to upset over someone online saying you come across as a casual fan,
Its just my opinion ,I'm not having a go at you i'm sure your a decent bloke, we all have opinions and that's ok . I'm sure many people disagree with me and I'm ok with that to,

The term skill is subjective...

Fury vs. Wlad was a horrible boxing spectacle in terms of what boxing is all (or mostly) about, throwing punches and hitting your opponent. Both men put on a terrible display...

Yes, yes, you can harp on about defense and movement and avoiding all you want. I get this.....but ultimately the sport is boxing, and that means you throw punches with some sort of technical efficiency and substance....anyone who can say that Wlad -Fury was anything but dour, in this regard knows sh1t about boxing.

Mayweatherr-Manny.....

Like I said, I posted a lot on this when it happened......

yourdeadwright · 13-06-2018 12:37pm

walshb wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I said you come across as a causal fan if you cant see the skill involved in both win and how Pacman and Wlad has no answer's ,
To me you seem to dismiss it as you don't like Fury and by the sounds of things hoped Pacman would beat Mayweather,
I wouldn't get to upset over someone online saying you come across as a casual fan,
Its just my opinion ,I'm not having a go at you i'm sure your a decent bloke, we all have opinions and that's ok . I'm sure many people disagree with me and I'm ok with that to,

The term skill is subjective...

Fury vs. Wlad was a horrible boxing spectacle in terms of what boxing is all (or mostly) about, throwing punches and hitting your opponent. Both men put on a terrible display...

Yes, yes, you can harp on about defense and movement and avoiding all you want. I get this.....but ultimately the sport is boxing, and that means you throw punches with some sort of technical efficiency and substance....anyone who can say that Wlad -Fury was anything but dour, in this regard knows sh1t about boxing.

Mayweatherr-Manny.....

Like I said, I posted a lot on this when it happened......

I can understand what your saying but Fury knew he had to make the fight that way to win and he was able to do so,
He didn't care as long as he got his hand raised , No one gave him a hope, when your in there for a number of world title's its win by any means possible ,Its up to the other guy to stop you ,

walshb · 13-06-2018 12:46pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I can understand what your saying but Fury knew he had to make the fight that way to win and he was able to do so,
He didn't care as long as he got his hand raised , No one gave him a hope, when your in there for a number of world title's its win by any means possible ,Its up to the other guy to stop you ,

That's fine.....win at all costs....

I am not talking about this....

Simple: From a boxing/punching/technical point of view he was dour...

If his holding and spoiling and wrestling and avoiding got him points from the judges....great. Wlad, too!

yourdeadwright · 13-06-2018 12:57pm

walshb wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I can understand what your saying but Fury knew he had to make the fight that way to win and he was able to do so,
He didn't care as long as he got his hand raised , No one gave him a hope, when your in there for a number of world title's its win by any means possible ,Its up to the other guy to stop you ,

That's fine.....win at all costs....

I am not talking about this....

Simple: From a boxing/punching/technical point of view he was dour...

If his holding and spoiling and wrestling and avoiding got him points from the judges....great. Wlad, too!

Well that's part of game isn't it,
If every fight was like that I wouldn't be a fan but if a guy is at the big stage and realises its what he needs to do to win and it works fair play to him

walshb · 13-06-2018 1:12pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Well that's part of game isn't it,
If every fight was like that I wouldn't be a fan but if a guy is at the big stage and realises its what he needs to do to win and it works fair play to him

And it brings us all the way back to the original points I made....

That I would probably rather watch AJ-Povetkin boxing/fighting compared to AJ-Wilder.......purely because I think it gives us a better spectacle/fight...

I actually agreed with you several times on your "separate" point about best vs best is what we should want...

btw, until they all meet, who really is the best? Is it AJ/Wilder/Fury/Povetkin?

Would you really be all that surprised if the top rated Povetkin beat AJ?

Would it be madness for some to think that Povetkin is the best HW on earth?

To go by Ring ratings he is number 3......does that mean we have to say that the other two are better? They are only ratings from people. They don't mean they are 100 percent accurate. Maybe Povetkin could be the best, should they all meet and decide?

Take Wilder....many many rate him as not all that good.....

Many many rate AJ as not all that good.....

Me: all four......

AJ beats AP/Fury and loses to Wilder
Wilder beats all 3
Povetkin beats Fury and loses to the other two
Fury loses to all three....

I am far from really clear on these picks.....the clearest I am is that I think Fury doesn't beat any. I am not clear on this, just that that pick is clearer than the other picks.

I can bet you there would be many permutations here from many people. Who's right?

squinn2912 · 13-06-2018 1:14pm

Usually in sports defensive styles will take you so far but in order to stand the test of time you need to make it happen and attack. A good example is in the GAA where Donegal won the 2012 All-Ireland. It was dour, it was horrible to watch but they won their medals. Look now at the Dublin team who are romping to victory every match. While everyone appreciates their attacking abilities almost every other team in Ireland will line out against them with the same tactics - stop them somehow.
I'm one for win at all costs, fairly of course. I have great admiration for anyone who can work out a conundrum whether they attack or not.

Heavyweight Boxing

Comments