Heavyweight Boxing

ASOT

squinn2912 wrote: »

What idiot wrote that? Not too many correct predictions

:pac:

Joyce v Jennings confirmed.

squinn2912

ASOT wrote: »

:pac:

Joyce v Jennings confirmed.

That’s a good match up!

squinn2912

pac_man wrote: »

[/B]

Name a heavyweight past or present that had a better record after 22 fights?

By that stage Ali had stopped Liston twice and Patterson once. That’s my vote.

SHOVELLER

Disappointed really that Wilder is facing Ortiz again. Granted he probably feels its a good test before fighting Joshua and/or Fury but really he beat him pretty recently and its hardly a hated rivalry. Meh

Not going saturday. Cant justify $240 for a ticket.

fonecrusher1

pac_man wrote: »

Name a heavyweight past or present that had a better record after 22 fights?

Don't know and don't care. He's mostly fought a load of journey men since i've noticed him. God knows the walking punch bags he's been lined up against out of those 22. Same goes for Wilder until he stepped up against Ortiz.

In the last 4 years other than a 40 yr old klitschko who of any serious pedigree has fought AJ?

Angliru

Ortiz nearly had Wilder out of there and was winning the fight pretty clearly. It is likely he's not the same fighter as that fight but Ortiz is still a beast of a HW. Very good fight and credit to Wilder for going for a rematch tbh. It is a damn better fight than Miller or Ruiz that's for sure.

CatFromHue

I'm not an expert but would the fact that Joshua has the WBA, IBF, WBO, and IBO belts compared to Wilder's WBC not show that he's fought some top level guys?

All_in_Flynn

There does seem to be an anti Joshua agenda here. Wilder is ducking him, I think that’s pretty obvious now. Why else announce the Ortiz fight 3 days before Joshua’s fight!?

I think Joshua would sign tomorrow to fight Wilder or fury if he could. Neither seem to want it though.

fonecrusher1

CatFromHue wrote: »

I'm not an expert but would the fact that Joshua has the WBA, IBF, WBO, and IBO belts compared to Wilder's WBC not show that he's fought some top level guys?

But it depends who he took those belts off. For example he took the IBF belt from Charles Martin in 2016. It took AJ 2 rounds to dispatch a clearly inferior opponent and Martin was never heard from again. Further to that Martin only retained the IBF to begin with because Fury refused to defend the belt by accepting the 2nd klitschko fight.

AJ has a good record, i'm not having a go at that. He's powerful and he can box. But the fact is he's only really only fought one world class belt holder, klitschko. And he got dropped in that fight. I'm not convinced.

All i'm saying is lets see how good he is against Wilder or Fury.

All_in_Flynn

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

But it depends who he took those belts off. For example he took the IBF belt from Charles Martin in 2016. It took AJ 2 rounds to dispatch a clearly inferior opponent and Martin was never heard from again. Further to that Martin only retained the IBF to begin with because Fury refused to defend the belt by accepting the 2nd klitschko fight.

AJ has a good record, i'm not having a go at that. He's powerful and he can box. But the fact is he's only really only fought one world class belt holder, klitschko. And he got dropped in that fight. I'm not convinced.

All i'm saying is lets see how good he is against Wilder or Fury.

But they won’t fight him? Wilder is ducking. Fury I have slightly more sympathy for given his road back but wilder has no excuse.

fonecrusher1

All_in_Flynn wrote: »

But they won’t fight him? Wilder is ducking.

Is that your opinion or do you have facts to back that up?

Last I heard Wilder's team offer AJ 50 million last year to fight but the offer was declined.

All_in_Flynn

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Is that your opinion or do you have facts to back that up?

Last I heard Wilder's team offer AJ 50 million last year to fight but the offer was declined.

For real? Eddie said that if the offer was real they would sign straight away and asked for a contract.....radio silence.

What facts do you want? A.J. said he wants the fight next only as recently as this week. Was obviously going to call him out barring any disaster this weekend and so Wilder goes and announces Ortiz 3 days beforehand. You can stick your head in the sand all you like but it’s clear he’s ducking.

fonecrusher1

All_in_Flynn wrote: »

For real? Eddie said that if the offer was real they would sign straight away and asked for a contract.....radio silence.

From what I know the offer was sent by email from Wilder's team and they heard nothing back from AJ / Hearn. In the Wilder vs Fury buildup Wilder's team was very very adamant about that. They couldn't get AJ so Fury was the next best in line.

All_in_Flynn wrote: »

What facts do you want? A.J. said he wants the fight next only as recently as this week. Was obviously going to call him out barring any disaster this weekend and so Wilder goes and announces Ortiz 3 days beforehand. You can stick your head in the sand all you like but it’s clear he’s ducking.

I'm not sticking my head in the sand. I think people saying its wilder ducking AJ are having a laugh. Has AJ / Eddie Hearn ever straight up chased Wilder for a fight? I mean with a cash sum, a proper offer? As demonstrated by Wilder's team last year.

All_in_Flynn

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

From what I know the offer was sent by email from Wilder's team and they heard nothing back from AJ / Hearn. In the Wilder vs Fury buildup Wilder's team was very very adamant about that. They couldn't get AJ so Fury was the next best in line.



I'm not sticking my head in the sand. I think people saying its wilder ducking AJ are having a laugh. Has AJ / Eddie Hearn ever straight up chased Wilder for a fight? I mean with a cash sum, a proper offer? As demonstrated by Wilder's team last year.

It was actually wilder himself who sent the email. To Eddie, Aj and Rob McCracken. Basically said here’s 50m accept by tomorrow. There was nothing more concrete than that. Eddie asked for contract....nothing received. No proof of funds, nothing.

Eddie tried to negotiate with Wilders team previously but he wanted 50/50 which was ridiculous given that at the time AJ was the draw in on the PPV sales.

Honestly, why do you think he announced the Ortiz fight 3 days before A.J. He’s ducking. He stands to make a fortune v AJ. He won’t get a fraction of that v Ortiz.

Morrison J

I honestly believe none of them want it. It's all just posturing. Each side is happy to fight knock over jobs and to get paid well for it until the public pressure ramps up another notch.

ASOT

Lion Killer wrote: »

Jennings has a good chance to win that one. Joyce is nothing special. High workrate but slow.

Yep spot on, Joyce is in slow motion the majority if the time.

Forgot to say it's on the Dubois/Gorman undercard.

yourdeadwright

pac_man wrote: »

[/B]

Name a heavyweight past or present that had a better record after 22 fights?

Which fights make Aj record so good ?

Wlad = at 42 first fight in 2 years and last fight was defeat ?

Parker = who lost his next fight to Whyte and barley beat Hughie Fury ,

AVP = 39 YEARSOLD AND OFF THE JESUS JUICE


AJ has fought decent opponents but nothing crazy ,

Wilder has fought Fury & Ortiz and is singed to fight Ortiz again ,

Fury has fought Wilder and Wlad closer to his prime as an 10 year champion in his own back yard,,

AJ biggest fight was 42 year old Wlad two years out of the ring and coming off a loss,


If you ask me all 3 are even

Wilder and Fury have fought tougher fights than Aj but Aj has fought the guys the next level down more often ,

Kilboor

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Which fights make Aj record so good ?

Wlad = at 42 first fight in 2 years and last fight was defeat ?

Parker = who lost his next fight to Whyte and barley beat Hughie Fury ,

AVP = 39 YEARSOLD AND OFF THE JESUS JUICE


AJ has fought decent opponents but nothing crazy ,

Wilder has fought Fury & Ortiz and is singed to fight Ortiz again ,

Fury has fought Wilder and Wlad closer to his prime as an 10 year champion in his own back yard,,

AJ biggest fight was 42 year old Wlad two years out of the ring and coming off a loss,


If you ask me all 3 are even

Wilder and Fury have fought tougher fights than Aj but Aj has fought the guys the next level down more often ,

Biggest balls = Fury
Most enjoyable = Wilder
Biggest Legacy by the end = AJ probably

I think he can beat Fury and Wilder.

yourdeadwright

Kilboor wrote: »

Biggest balls = Fury
Most enjoyable = Wilder
Biggest Legacy by the end = AJ probably

I think he can beat Fury and Wilder.

I think the beauty of it is all 3 could actually beat each other on any given night,

Pighead

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Which fights make Aj record so good ?

Wlad = at 42 first fight in 2 years and last fight was defeat ?

Parker = who lost his next fight to Whyte and barley beat Hughie Fury ,

AVP = 39 YEARSOLD AND OFF THE JESUS JUICE


AJ has fought decent opponents but nothing crazy ,

Wilder has fought Fury & Ortiz and is singed to fight Ortiz again ,

Fury has fought Wilder and Wlad closer to his prime as an 10 year champion in his own back yard,,

AJ biggest fight was 42 year old Wlad two years out of the ring and coming off a loss,


If you ask me all 3 are even

Wilder and Fury have fought tougher fights than Aj but Aj has fought the guys the next level down more often ,

You're not comparing like with like. Even if we accept your argument that Joshua, Fury and Wilder have a similar resume you have to factor in that AJ has fought Whyte, Martin, Breazeale, Molina and Takam all before reaching twenty career fights!

Wilder didn't start fighting live opponents until about his 30th fight when he faced Malik Scott. Fury's only 'name' in his first twenty fights was Chisora. And it's AJ's promoters who get accused of picking easy fights for their guy!

yourdeadwright

Pighead wrote: »

You're not comparing like with like. Even if we accept your argument that Joshua, Fury and Wilder have a similar resume you have to factor in that AJ has fought Whyte, Martin, Breazeale, Molina and Takam all before reaching twenty career fights!

Wilder didn't start fighting live opponents until about his 30th fight when he faced Malik Scott. Fury's only 'name' in his first twenty fights was Chisora. And it's AJ's promoters who get accused of picking easy fights for their guy!

Well to be fair every boxer comes up at different pace so no problem with who they fight early on , They all mature differently ,
Its fairer to speak about who they fight when they reach there potential which all 3 have,

Aj was a Olympic gold medallist so learned a lot as a ammi , Fury learned on the Job ,

You mentioned Malik Scott was Wilders first step up that fight was 2 fights before he won a world title,

Aj fought Whyte which was his first live opponent one fight before he fought for the title and don't forget Whyte was way way greener than AJ at that stage,

They all steeped up when they where ready at different ages,

Aj just need a big name in there prime something Wlider and Fury have, but as you said he has fought the next level down more often than the other two have ,

I really think there records have little between them ,

fitzparker

After hearing Wilder announce Ortiz 3 days from joshua fighting it's clear he is the bottler. Supposedly he has Kownacki after Ortiz aswell.

Between the 2 fights will he even clear 10 million?

Wilder used the excuse "all my controversial fights must get dealt with", ok ortiz was in the fight and had him rocked, but he dealt with it, his other controversial fight is fury.

So are we potentially looking at minimum 18 months before we think of him V AJ? after Kownacki and Fury (don't think it wll happen that soon)

Regarding AJ when baby Miller pulled out Ortiz was offered 7 million and a 2 fight contract if he lost and his team turned it down, he made 500k off Wilder.

Kilboor

fitzparker wrote: »

After hearing Wilder announce Ortiz 3 days from joshua fighting it's clear he is the bottler. Supposedly he has Kownacki after Ortiz aswell.

Between the 2 fights will he even clear 10 million?

Wilder used the excuse "all my controversial fights must get dealt with", ok ortiz was in the fight and had him rocked, but he dealt with it, his other controversial fight is fury.

So are we potentially looking at minimum 18 months before we think of him V AJ? after Kownacki and Fury (don't think it wll happen that soon)

Regarding AJ when baby Miller pulled out Ortiz was offered 7 million and a 2 fight contract if he lost and his team turned it down, he made 500k off Wilder.

There is no answer but drugs really.

yourdeadwright

fitzparker wrote: »

After hearing Wilder announce Ortiz 3 days from joshua fighting it's clear he is the bottler. Supposedly he has Kownacki after Ortiz aswell.

Between the 2 fights will he even clear 10 million?

Wilder used the excuse "all my controversial fights must get dealt with", ok ortiz was in the fight and had him rocked, but he dealt with it, his other controversial fight is fury.

So are we potentially looking at minimum 18 months before we think of him V AJ? after Kownacki and Fury (don't think it wll happen that soon)

Regarding AJ when baby Miller pulled out Ortiz was offered 7 million and a 2 fight contract if he lost and his team turned it down, he made 500k off Wilder.

If someone was on something they wouldn't have the time in such a short period to cycle it ,

yourdeadwright

pac_man wrote: »

He didn't really. In relative terms, he was a novice in the worlds and Olympics. He started boxing at 18. Just like Joshua's record to date, Joshua's amateur story is out of the ordinary.The rate of progression through his amateur and pro careers to date has been really impressive.

The most important part of his amateur days was being part of team GB preparing for the London Olympics for basically 4 years with no stone unturned

People always talk about the rounds in the ring but being member of team GB was absolutely massive in his development , it's like college for boxer but you have to turn up every day ,

He had literally the best strength and conditioning and training anyone bar the very very highest level pro's get

Look at how Whyte or Fury at the same age would have been training off his own back in his local gym absolute world apart,

That not for a second taking anything from AJ as he had to put the work in and be good enough to be there but it was a brilliant way to educated in the sport,

yourdeadwright

pac_man wrote: »

Povetkin.

Povetkin is 39 and off the Jesus juice, He nearly got stopped by Price, He is a small man compared to AJ ,

The reality is there is a huge gulf between AJ, Wilder,Fiury, Ortiz , Wlad and the rest ,

ASOT

yourdeadwright wrote: »

The most important part of his amateur days was being part of team GB preparing for the London Olympics for basically 4 years with no stone unturned

People always talk about the rounds in the ring but being member of team GB was absolutely massive in his development , it's like college for boxer but you have to turn up every day ,

He had literally the best strength and conditioning and training anyone bar the very very highest level pro's get

Look at how Whyte or Fury at the same age would have been training off his own back in his local gym absolute world apart,

That not for a second taking anything from AJ as he had to put the work in and be good enough to be there but it was a brilliant way to educated in the sport,

If it wasn't for team GB he'd be in prison right now I'd say. Done more for his career than anything imo.

squinn2912

Here's something to consider. I don't like AJ and don't root for him I want to say that first. I do try to be objective though.

If we're leveling it at AJ that he fought a bad Wlad or AP etc etc then surely it's relevant to say that Wilder fought an out of shape Fury who had been out for 3 years and fought two cans on his comeback. So what credit does he really deserve? By that same token does Fury deserve all that credit if Wilder isn't all that? My point is that until they all fight each other then AJ is the missing piece. The other two or at least one of them will have to take him on before we can say much with any certainty.

I do think the amateur experience is relevant too but we can't blame aj for that opportunity. Joyce has to have had a similar experience and Wilder or Fury would easily beat him.

ASOT

pac_man wrote: »

Of course it would have an influence but it's getting overstated on here. He was part of GB from 2010, he fought in the Olympics in 2012. The GB set up is a great set up but in amateur terms, he was a novice.

I don't think it's overstated personally as without team GB without a doubt in my mind he'd be locked up thus having no career. Boxing wise I agree with you 100% though. I was more getting at his outside of the ring involvement in crime, without the Olympics he would have continued down the road he was on and we wouldn't be talking about him now.

yourdeadwright

pac_man wrote: »

Of course it would have an influence but it's getting overstated on here. He was part of GB from 2010, he fought in the Olympics in 2012. The GB set up is a great set up but in amateur terms, he was a novice.

He went from starting boxing to Olympics Gold in 5 years which is amazing but them few year on Tam GB are massive

Just on that topic Wilder went from starting boxing to Olympic Bronze in 3 years equally as crazy,

I don't thing you'd see such quick rises like that any other weight in boxing

Heavy Weight is rarely stacked with great fighters