Heavyweight Boxing

yourdeadwright

squinn2912 wrote: »

For a start he did take more shots. I'm not surprised that he didn't clear. He took two mean hooks and then the overhand right before going down the first time. Then he took a combination at the end of the round too. After that each round he had 20 seconds of bounce and then Ruiz bullied him about.

I'd say he was below par of course but many boxers went into big fights not right. He gambled and let the fight go ahead and got caught. But Ruiz was excellent. No fear and outthought Joshua. I watched it again last night and I don't think I'd given Ruiz nearly enough credit. I'm still sticking with the call that Joshua comfortably wins the rematch.

That's very interesting about Barry. I like listening to him.

Something I don't think we've acknowledged up until now is just how badly the odds were stacked against Ruiz. He had 5 weeks to get ready for this. If he has 5 months this time around then he'll be in a position to really go for it. He has lots of motivation to prove this was no fluke.

I agree with you, Ruiz was on form and has to be given credit,

I guess it won't be till AJ stops fighting that you really hear the truth about the night,

When Barry who must have watched all of AJ tapes a 100 times in preparation for the Parker fight is saying pre first bell that something is up AJ you have to think there was something . Barry was sat in the 4th row ,

I also heard Fury say he noticed that there was no sweat or sign of water on AJ which is a bit odd pre fight,

Again no taking anything away from Ruiz he had a job and he done it perfectly so 100% credit to him ,
Rematch will be very interesting and tell a lot about the first fight ,

squinn2912

The rematch will be fascinating. I expect Joshua to win it after taking 3-4 rounds to jab the head off Ruiz. He'll get brave enough to throw the big right and that'll be that. But many others have underestimated Ruiz and he would give anyone in the top 10 trouble. Brilliant hand speed. There's a way to fight a guy like that and Joshua had it all wrong. Corner were giving good advice - keep busy, use the jab. He was out of it.

nacho libre

Having watched the fight again i'm not as confident of Joshua winning the rematch. Ruiz, with five months to prepare, will be sharper and out to prove the win was no fluke. Joshua will try to jab his way to a points victory or late stoppage, but I think Ruiz will set traps and get to him at some point. Joshua's lack of head movement will ultimately be his undoing

The Nal

Joshua is very easily hit. His footwork is abysmal.

normanoffside

nacho libre wrote: »

Having watched the fight again i'm not as confident of Joshua winning the rematch. Ruiz, with five months to prepare, will be sharper and out to prove the win was no fluke. Joshua will try to jab his way to a points victory or late stoppage, but I think Ruiz will set traps and get to him at some point. Joshua's lack of head movement will ultimately be his undoing

Yes and I think there is nice money to be made with Joshua still a firm bookies favourite.
Very rarely does one fighter get beaten so comprehensively (it wasn't a one-punch KO but a good beat down) and come back and win a rematch.

This reminds me of Tyson vs Holyfield. I made a lot of money on Holyfield in the rematch.

squinn2912

normanoffside wrote: »

Yes and I think there is nice money to be made with Joshua still a firm bookies favourite.
Very rarely does one fighter get beaten so comprehensively (it wasn't a one-punch KO but a good beat down) and come back and win a rematch.

This reminds me of Tyson vs Holyfield. I made a lot of money on Holyfield in the rematch.

The most lucrative bet is on Ruiz yes but had Joshua taken his time in round 3 every chance he’d get the ko. That was also Joshua on a very bad night

dougm1970

normanoffside wrote: »

Yes and I think there is nice money to be made with Joshua still a firm bookies favourite.
Very rarely does one fighter get beaten so comprehensively (it wasn't a one-punch KO but a good beat down) and come back and win a rematch.

This reminds me of Tyson vs Holyfield. I made a lot of money on Holyfield in the rematch.

i tend to agree....although a lot will offer up buster douglas as an exhibit...multiple millions guaranteed made him not even train, just turn up for the wages.
not saying ruiz might do that, i dont think hes that type of personality, but that body is a headscratcher, it gives the impression that he doesnt like to train which would follow on to the thought of will he be motivated to train with the guaranteed wages so big.
obvious hes a beast underneath the fat so he must train hard enough....so i really dont know what to think...i wouldnt bet either way.

squinn2912

dougm1970 wrote: »

i tend to agree....although a lot will offer up buster douglas as an exhibit...multiple millions guaranteed made him not even train, just turn up for the wages.
not saying ruiz might do that, i dont think hes that type of personality, but that body is a headscratcher, it gives the impression that he doesnt like to train which would follow on to the thought of will he be motivated to train with the guaranteed wages so big.
obvious hes a beast underneath the fat so he must train hard enough....so i really dont know what to think...i wouldnt bet either way.

This makes sense to me. Lots of good heavyweights have been kinda blubbery but this man is a whale. I hope we see him up for it the rematch is intriguing. Wonder how much tickets would be?

yourdeadwright

Hearns latest interveiw on fight hub tv , Interveiwer says "what you think about Ruiz asking for 50 million, isnt that stuff already singed " Hearn nods his head ,laughs and says you know ur boxing

So can we finally agree the split for the rematch is s already in the orginal contract ,

Mantis Toboggan

Watched it again and I get the sense that the fire is gone in AJ. Don't think his heart is in it. Think he could come unstuck in the rematch also.

normanoffside

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Watched it again and I get the sense that the fire is gone in AJ. Don't think his heart is in it. Think he could come unstuck in the rematch also.

Yep and Ruiz is 5/2 to win

Mantis Toboggan

normanoffside wrote: »

Yep and Ruiz is 5/2 to win

What price was he before the first fight?

Was he a bigger price than Fury was against Klitschko?

normanoffside

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

What price was he before the first fight?

Was he a bigger price than Fury was against Klitschko?

I wasn't checking as I didn't think it would happen but I hear it was around 16/1 to win and 25/1 by KO

realdanbreen

In fairness to Joshua he behaved like a real gentlemen immediately after the fight. He was gracious in defeat and it can't have been easy after losing a fight that he was expected to win. I'm now a big fan of his.

normanoffside

realdanbreen wrote: »

In fairness to Joshua he behaved like a real gentlemen immediately after the fight. He was gracious in defeat and it can't have been easy after losing a fight that he was expected to win. I'm now a big fan of his.

I agree with that 100%

yourdeadwright

realdanbreen wrote: »

In fairness to Joshua he behaved like a real gentlemen immediately after the fight. He was gracious in defeat and it can't have been easy after losing a fight that he was expected to win. I'm now a big fan of his.

He was a gentleman but almost so much so it was odd ,

Even in his recent sky interveiw its like there is no fire there , no real passion for whats happened ,almost like he lost his edge , That may not be good for him in rematch

Checkmate19

I watched the fight many times now. The shot in the third that changed it was to the temple and scrambled aj. He may have not been right going into the fight. But i think he felt under pressure to got a finish early and to make a statement. He just went to take him out and got sloppy. AJ has been more timed when finishing but he just gung ho and got caught. That shot changed the fight. AJ may win the rematch but its a risky fight. If he loses where does he go. Ruiz will have no fear.

SHOVELLER

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uyCbWOvzIfU

squinn2912

Checkmate19 wrote: »

I watched the fight many times now. The shot in the third that changed it was to the temple and scrambled aj. He may have not been right going into the fight. But i think he felt under pressure to got a finish early and to make a statement. He just went to take him out and got sloppy. AJ has been more timed when finishing but he just gung ho and got caught. That shot changed the fight. AJ may win the rematch but its a risky fight. If he loses where does he go. Ruiz will have no fear.

I agree with you on the fight but fighting him again is a no brainer. It should be a risky fight it’s for the championship. I don’t think Joshua thinks like that if he weighs up the risks then he fights with fear. He needs to back himself and fight with a plan. There are enough bad mistakes in that fight for him to correct to win it by a margin but his head is the most important one

normanoffside

Ruiz has a chin and is not afraid to take a shot to get inside.
Once inside his hands are way too fast for AJ.
Honestly I just think Ruiz is all wrong for AJ.

squinn2912

normanoffside wrote: »

Ruiz has a chin and is not afraid to take a shot to get inside.
Once inside his hands are way too fast for AJ.
Honestly I just think Ruiz is all wrong for AJ.

I can see into that argument for sure but Joshua has more ways he can win. He needs to use the jab and be patient. If he’d taken his time in the third round he would have stopped Ruiz. Ruiz looked hurt even there for the taking but he recovered so quickly. Must be said he didn’t see his shot coming either.

realdanbreen

Would Ruiz have been able to go the distance the other night? Not taking away from him in any way but I'm following boxing a long time and I can't recall a world champion looking so flabby.

normanoffside

realdanbreen wrote: »

Would Ruiz have been able to go the distance the other night? Not taking away from him in any way but I'm following boxing a long time and I can't recall a world champion looking so flabby.

Absolutely. He went 12 rounds at a good pace against Parker and was just as strong in the 12th.

squinn2912

normanoffside wrote: »

Absolutely. He went 12 rounds at a good pace against Parker and was just as strong in the 12th.

No bother there in fairness. Fury spoke at length to not judge a book by its cover suggesting that he trains as hard as any of them. I’d say his diet is appalling though

stockshares

Does anyone know what the AVG strength/power level of heavyweight boxers or boxers in lower weight classes would be.

I realise neither strength/power are the deciding factor in who wins a fight but I want to get an idea of how powerful these punches would be.

Although Ruiz appears unfit he must have landed with some power to drop a guy 6ft 5in and 240lbs+ and the same applies to Joshua dropping Ruiz.

I can't imagine a punch from a 15st guy on the street making any impression on either man.

squinn2912

stockshares wrote: »

Does anyone know what the AVG strength/power level of heavyweight boxers or boxers in lower weight classes would be.

I realise neither strength/power are the deciding factor in who wins a fight but I want to get an idea of how powerful these punches would be.

Although Ruiz appears unfit he must have landed with some power to drop a guy 6ft 5in and 240lbs+ and the same applies to Joshua dropping Ruiz.

I can't imagine a punch from a 15st guy on the street making any impression on either man.

Bound to be studies but I think it’s more on the connection and leverage than raw power. I’m not so sure that can be increased

yourdeadwright

squinn2912 wrote: »

stockshares wrote: »

Does anyone know what the AVG strength/power level of heavyweight boxers or boxers in lower weight classes would be.

I realise neither strength/power are the deciding factor in who wins a fight but I want to get an idea of how powerful these punches would be.

Although Ruiz appears unfit he must have landed with some power to drop a guy 6ft 5in and 240lbs+ and the same applies to Joshua dropping Ruiz.

I can't imagine a punch from a 15st guy on the street making any impression on either man.

Bound to be studies but I think it’s more on the connection and leverage than raw power. I’m not so sure that can be increased

Timing also has a huge factor and of you see the punch coming ,
If your timing is spot on you can create double the force , for instance if your hit backing up or hit while steaming forward its totally dofferent

Deiseboy01

normanoffside wrote: »

Yes and I think there is nice money to be made with Joshua still a firm bookies favourite.
Very rarely does one fighter get beaten so comprehensively (it wasn't a one-punch KO but a good beat down) and come back and win a rematch.

This reminds me of Tyson vs Holyfield. I made a lot of money on Holyfield in the rematch.

Or Naverette v Dogboe the other week. He got an almighty hiding second time around.

Blanco100

AJ landed a massive right hand almost immediately after Ruiz got up after the knock down. And he took it flush and returned fire himself. These are the little things that will concern McCracken.

As a previous poster said, Ruiz isnt afraid of taking punches to land his own.

Most opponents go into survival mode under AJs offence but its also when he is most vulnerable and he can be timed but it takes balls.

nacho libre

squinn2912 wrote: »

I agree with you on the fight but fighting him again is a no brainer. It should be a risky fight it’s for the championship. I don’t think Joshua thinks like that if he weighs up the risks then he fights with fear. He needs to back himself and fight with a plan. There are enough bad mistakes in that fight for him to correct to win it by a margin but his head is the most important one

I don't see how he can correct this flaw, his lack of head movement has been a glaring weakness all along, he got away with it up until he faced someone who had the hand speed to get to him, and also the punch resistance to withstand his punches. Ruiz, after he was knocked down, had steady legs, he also took a big shot a few seconds after getting back. I think this indicates, even if Joshua stays behind the jab, Ruiz will able to take his punches and eventually lands on Joshua putting him in a world of trouble again.