Season 7 Episode 3 "The Queen's Justice" - "Book readers"

Nody

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highgiant1985

Here we go! Anyone else watching it now?

ZeitgeistGlee

Jesus Christ Jon you had the entire trip to Dragonstone to rehearse what you were going to say and that was the best you could come up with.

GerB40

Jon Snow saying "I'm not a Stark" and Rhaegon roaring in the background. Not too subtle but still a lovely little touch.

Davos saying "This is Jon Snow" after Daenearys' massive introduction :pac:

Also Bran saying he's gonna sit by that tree for a little longer. Yeah of course you are mate, you can't walk and you've been left alone.

0byme75341jo28

It's laughable how terrible the writing is in GoT at times, it's got to the stage where you can know with near absolute certainty what will/will not be similar in the books.

Calling it now

Similar in books; Highgarden sequence, Cersei "kiss of death" scene, Sam in Oldtown.

Not similar in books; Daenerys/Jon first meeting (not helped by Emilia Clarke's acting), Euron handing Ellaria over ("finger up her bum" come on ffs..), Bran/Sansa scene.

Bran's story has generally translated poorly to screen imo, not sure if that could be helped though seeing as a lot of his character would be more of an internal monologue/visions at this stage.

rawn

I thought this was a really powerful episode. Randall Tarly has obviously been lending Cersei advice. The worst part of the episode is Jorahs cure. Ffs what a cop out. "I just followed the instructions" GENIUS.

But what we REALLY need to be talking about is that look Littlefinger have Yhon Royce when he said Maester Luwin kept records of all raven letters. Is he trying to hide a letter or find one??

GerB40

What we're starting to see is the consequences of shortening the season to just seven episodes. The Jon and Dany reunion was fine, the Sansnakes one-way ticket to the dungeons was great, but the rest of the episode was terribly compressed.
The Jorah/Sam/Marwen scene was unnecessary and badly written, Bran and Sansa finally meeting up after six seasons should have been one of the most heart lifting moments in the whole show. Two full blooded Starks are finally back in Winterfell and all we get is Bran talking in riddles and Sansa saying "okay you're a bit mental, talk to ya later". Casterly Rock was won and lost by the Unsullied and Highgarden was lost to the Lannisters and all that was only given around ten minutes.
I get that they're trying to cut any loose ends by ridding themselves of plots that won't be essential in the long run but they knew when they were writing the scripts that the western part of Westeros was going to be taken by the Lannisters. Something that huge deserves way more screen time than it got. I just can't get how shortening the series by 3 episodes was justified.
Still, it was a good episode. Olenna wasn't going out without fúckin with a Lannister. I reckon Jaime will take Olenna's words to heart, if he doesn't it will be the completion of Dan and Daves destruction of the Jaime Lannister redemption arc.

0byme75341jo28

Just noticed the parallels between what Littlefinger was saying to Sansa before Bran's arrival and the powers Bran actually has.. is that meant to just be a coincidence or maybe Littlefinger knows/is capable of more than one would expect?

Riddle101

I always go into each episode with high expectations, but find myself coming out wanting more then i've got.

Jon Snow and Deanerys' meeting didn't feel right to me despite all the anticipation I had for it all week. Deanerys just comes off as really unlikable sometimes, and a self entitled brat. It was like listening to a child the way Deanerys was talking. I guess I shouldn't have expected any less from her after watching all the other seasons.

I was kind've hoping that Jon Snow would mention Aemon Targayren to Deanerys. It might have been a way for Jon to break the ice. Telling Deanerys all about him. Maybe he still will.

Sansa and Bran's reunion was a little flat. I kind've felt sorry for Sansa trying to talk to Bran but not getting much out of him.

I thought the battle scenes were rushed but I guess they're strapped for time. Nonetheless smart move by the Lannisters pulling their forces out of Casterly Rock and attacking Highgarden. Now House Tyrell is out of the picture and another ally for Deanerys has been defeated.

EagererBeaver

rawn wrote: »

I thought this was a really powerful episode. Randall Tarly has obviously been lending Cersei advice. The worst part of the episode is Jorahs cure. Ffs what a cop out. "I just followed the instructions" GENIUS.

I think there's more to that then meets the eye and Sam's previous exposure to dragonglass will be relevant. I can't see how greyscale could come back into the show now though.

A decent episode but definitely rushed. Dany's not going to have much of an army left if she keeps up the blundering.

RobbingBandit

Hope Sansa doesn't hold the door...

Bronn and Randall Tarley now that's an intimidating duo of stooges.

Lady Olenna leading Jamie down the betrayal garden path step by step, just perfectly done.

Ser Davos has some mouth on him.

Kunkka

Bran: i see everything. I saw you on your wedding night. you were beautiful in your white wedding dress.
Sansa: I have to go
Bran: Theon wasn't the only one watching. It was hot.
Sansa: STOP IT

Jaysus.

Good episode but very rushed.

duffysfarm

The obvious thing now is that bran would know what little finger was up to?

Kunkka wrote: »

Bran: i see everything. I saw you on your wedding night. you were beautiful in your white wedding dress.
Sansa: I have to go
Bran: Theon wasn't the only one watching. It was hot.
Sansa: STOP IT

Jaysus.

Good episode but very rushed.

Daith

The Bran/Sansa scene. After the Jon/Sansa scene it felt so flat? I get what they're doing with Bran but meh. I think the "I know you were raped" scene was actually him trying to be a brother and oddly disappointed he couldn't protect her but he he's so disconnected now.

I did think it was interesting that Littlefinger was telling Sansa to be the Three Eyed Raven. Now that she actually has one will LF be joining Lyssa soon?

Also no "This is Meera, she's been dragging me around forever" scene? That's cold.

The Sand Snakes/Cersei scene was fantastic. A lot better than just killing them.

Tyrion is getting outplayed at the Game.

CMOTDibbler

Great episode. I know it has a 'rushed' feeling to it, but that's just relative to what's gone before. The battles are really just skirmishes in prelude to the 'great war' against the Night's King. I think we're heading towards a kind of stalemate and that's what these battles are about.

Bran's getting more and more detached from the present. Anything he says now is intended to shape events. So I think his vision of Sansa's wedding night is to remind her of Littlefinger's part in that. He also has 'things to tell Jon'. I think we can figure that out...

awec

They've gone from one extreme of having too much filler and build up to the other extreme of having hardly any. It does seem very rushed and will take a bit of getting used to.

Was a decent episode but the Bran and Sansa reunion was really underwhelming. Initially I thought it was going to be an Arya reunion, I guess that'll be next week.

What does Bran have to tell Jon? I have forgotten most of Bran's backstory.

Baggly

awec wrote: »

They've gone from one extreme of having too much filler and build up to the other extreme of having hardly any. It does seem very rushed and will take a bit of getting used to.

Was a decent episode but the Bran and Sansa reunion was really underwhelming. Initially I thought it was going to be an Arya reunion, I guess that'll be next week.

What does Bran have to tell Jon? I have forgotten most of Bran's backstory.

Perhaps that he isnt a Stark at all and is a Targaryen? Perhaps all he knows about the white walkers and dead? Or about the runes in the wall? Bran has done lots. Actually felt his spacey act in this episode was a little disappointing. Hope 'something' plot devicey doesnt come along and stop Bran from telling everyone all he knows.

Quick paced episode but enjoyed it.

Tyrion / Jon banter was good.

Davos was great.

We got a battle in there at the very least. (and got to see the unsullied fight - they seem good at it).

Also relished the Olenna reveal. Sad to see her go.

It did feel like a tying up loose ends episode, but there are so many to tie up, it was bound to come along. Good to see some closure on stories from previous seasons.

neirbloom

awec wrote: »

What does Bran have to tell Jon? I have forgotten most of Bran's backstory.

Jon is actually Rhaegar Targaryens son Daenerys brother, which would make Daenerys Jons aunt.

CMOTDibbler

neirbloom wrote: »

Jon is actually Rhaegar Targaryens son Daenerys brother, which would make Daenerys Jons aunt.

Or at the very least, that he's Lyanna Stark's son.

That in itself would be important.

EagererBeaver

Pter wrote: »

Also relished the Olenna reveal. Sad to see her go.

Yeah, she's an absolutely brilliant character.

I know we've all to suspend our disbelief about the time hoping and geography skipping, but my understanding was that the planned Dornish and Tyrell siege of Kings landing would be more or less simultaneous with the unsullied attack on Casterly Rock. Euron and his boys are fairly getting around with that navy of theirs.

letowski

I bet my house that Sam will find something important in those books/scrolls he has to copy.

duploelabs

rawn wrote: »

The worst part of the episode is Jorahs cure. Ffs what a cop out. "I just followed the instructions" GENIUS.

I think you have to realise the line along the lines of maesters weighed down with links of healing have failed at curing stoneskin. Sometimes experience can taint instructions, thinking one knows better from their own experience, whereas Sam just followed the instructions without any prior knowledge of healing

duploelabs

Daleyza Better Headphone wrote: »

Euron handing Ellaria over ("finger up her bum" come on ffs..)

Perhaps foreshadowing the mockingbird being used

EagererBeaver

duploelabs wrote: »

I think you have to realise the line along the lines of maesters weighed down with links of healing have failed at curing stoneskin. Sometimes experience can taint instructions, thinking one knows better from their own experience, whereas Sam just followed the instructions without any prior knowledge of healing

Or his previous exposure to dragonglass...

CMOTDibbler

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Yeah, she's an absolutely brilliant character.

I know we've all to suspend our disbelief about the time hoping and geography skipping, but my understanding was that the planned Dornish and Tyrell siege of Kings landing would be more or less simultaneous with the unsullied attack on Casterly Rock. Euron and his boys are fairly getting around with that navy of theirs.

Well they probably would have been had Yara actually made it to Dorne. If we work off the sequence from last week, Cersei and Euron's 'alliance' came before Daenerys' arrival at Dragonstone. So Cersei has been a temporal step ahead of her. Olenna got back to Highgarden, presumably to rally her bannermen and move on KL. But we also know that one of those bannermen has sided with Cersei. That may have delayed Olenna even if she had got to Highgarden earlier than Yara was supposed to get to Dorne.

So the timeline would be something like this:

1. Euron allies with Cersei and heads off (presumably to Dorne). Cersei's plan to attack and weaken her enemies is formulated around now. Jaime heads to Highgarden with the Tarlys.
2. Daenerys arrives at Dragonstone.
3. She sends the Martells back to Dorne with Yara and Olenna back to Highgarden to gather their troops.
4. Euron waylays Yara and destroys her fleet capturing Yara, Ellaria and Tyene.
5. Euron heads back to KL with his prisoners, but sends some (or most) of his fleet on to Casterly Rock. Since CR is a trap, the assumption is that Jaime/Cersei have already lined him up to do this.

Now I'm making a few assumptions here, but it was clear from last week's episode that the Euron Cersei alliance happened before Dany even arrived at Dragonstone.

Dave_The_Sheep

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Now I'm making a few assumptions here, but it was clear from last week's episode that the Euron Cersei alliance happened before Dany even arrived at Dragonstone.

I think you might be giving the writers a bit too much credit there.

My impression would be that they're just going to use the various armies and fleets however they feel like it, even though it might not make the most sense geographic-or-timeline-wise.

CMOTDibbler

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

I think you might be giving the writers a bit too much credit there.

My impression would be that they're just going to use the various armies and fleets however they feel like it, even though it might not make the most sense geographic-or-timeline-wise.

They've never made any secret of the fact that they don't want to fill the show with meaningless travelogues. It's a given that we won't see people travelling long distances the way we did in the first season. Most of that time was spent in developing the characters anyway, like Jon and Tyrion getting to know each other.

leggo

I wouldn't mind one more odd-couple pairing like Arya/The Hound, Jaime/Brienne. That's kind of a staple. All we really have is The Hound/BWB but that was more just a couple of scenes so far than a running thing.

awec

Pter wrote: »

Perhaps that he isnt a Stark at all and is a Targaryen? Perhaps all he knows about the white walkers and dead? Or about the runes in the wall? Bran has done lots. Actually felt his spacey act in this episode was a little disappointing. Hope 'something' plot devicey doesnt come along and stop Bran from telling everyone all he knows.

Quick paced episode but enjoyed it.

Tyrion / Jon banter was good.

Davos was great.

We got a battle in there at the very least. (and got to see the unsullied fight - they seem good at it).

Also relished the Olenna reveal. Sad to see her go.

It did feel like a tying up loose ends episode, but there are so many to tie up, it was bound to come along. Good to see some closure on stories from previous seasons.

I forgot the Jon Lyanna thing was a Bran vision.

If he tells them that who is going to believe him though?

leggo

awec wrote: »

I forgot the Jon Lyanna thing was a Bran vision.

If he tells them that who is going to believe him though?

The whole 'I can tell you things that only you know about' trick is a pretty convincing one to be fair.

CMOTDibbler

leggo wrote: »

The whole 'I can tell you things that only you know about' trick is a pretty convincing one to be fair.

And he's been doing that since he came south of the wall. Telling Dolorous Edd where he's been and Sansa about her night to forget.

awec

The fate of the sand snakes, I wonder if that's a contrived way of eventually getting Ellaria rescued?

Or do folks reckon that's it for her?

Seemed like a big risk for Cersei to take too, putting the poison on her lips when they have no idea how long it takes to kill each individual person. Kind of unnecessary really.

SparklersJo

leggo wrote: »

The whole 'I can tell you things that only you know about' trick is a pretty convincing one to be fair.

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

And he's been doing that since he came south of the wall. Telling Dolorous Edd where he's been and Sansa about her night to forget.

And I'm sure it'll be conveniently corroborated at the same time by a raven from Sam who will find something to confirm it in those old scrolls in the citadel

J. Marston

awec wrote: »

The fate of the sand snakes, I wonder if that's a contrived way of eventually getting Ellaria rescued?

Or do folks reckon that's it for her?

Seemed like a big risk for Cersei to take too, putting the poison on her lips when they have no idea how long it takes to kill each individual person. Kind of unnecessary really.

Suppose she might be used as a hostage when Dany attacks King's Landing but I'd say she's finished now. Left to rot in the cells or worse, be one of Qyburn's experiments.

On the poison, dramatic effect for the show I guess. But still, I'm sure Qyburn knows a lot about poisons and their effects so she was safe enough.

podgemonster

Wonderful episode tonight, some historic meetups and reunions, sharp words and fond farewells.


Jaime and Cersei combined are the almost as cunning, saive and ruthless as Tywin. Jaime wins over Tarly, takes the richest kingdom in Westoros and temporaily sacrifices the Rock. Fabulous play, Dany's only victory so far but completely worthless and has cost her dearly with nothing to be gained. How things have changed from Ep1 is marvellous, even Jaime would agree they have a chance. The Unsullied are isolated, Dorne and Yara stopped and Highgarden usurped. Part of me wonders if Cersei's will get complacent and decide not to pay off the Bravosii.


The Queen's justice is much more fitting then what I thought it would be. She knows that the pain of a mother losing an innocent daughter is worse that any blade, poison or whip. She leaves Ellaryia to suffer heartbreak forever.


Brans return to Winterfell was somewhat rushed and his character is almost devoid of emotion. He subtly reminds Sansa of what Littlefinger indirectly did by handing her to the Boltons and what other lies he may tell her or others. LF concern when Sansa asked the maister to reviews Maester Luwins records was also interesting.


Star of the show, Queen of Thorns. Despite the bodies of Highgarden men lying dead around her its the Kingslayer that's floored in the castle tower by words. In one conversation she has driven a wedge through Cersei and Jaime once again revealing vindicating Tyrion as reminding Jaime what a poison Cersei is.


I find Dany being quite painful in a number of scenes with Emilia Clarkes acting quite wooden. Kit is quite the opposite, uncomfortable, awkward, modest, longing to finish this parlnd get back to the real business. No more interest in the Game of Thrones than the Night King.


Speaking of which we only saw a snippet of him in Ep1, we now go into the halfway point of the series and still very little coverage of the North of the Wall.

I wonder will Dany be reluctant to join Jon if she finds out that he literally rose from the dead himself

rawn

podgemonster wrote:

I find Dany being quite painful in a number of scenes with Emilia Clarkes acting quite wooden. Kit is quite the opposite, uncomfortable, awkward, modest, longing to finish this parlnd get back to the real business. No more interest in the Game of Thrones than the Night King.

I think she does well, she comes across as regal in composure and delivers her words with power and conviction. I think it suits her characters new role in the show as I think she will be more ruthless and cold, and will make decisions that in the past she would never have made. She's hardening herself.

CMOTDibbler

rawn wrote: »

I think she does well, she comes across as regal in composure and delivers her words with power and conviction. I think it suits her characters new role in the show as I think she will be more ruthless and cold, and will make decisions that in the past she would never have made. She's hardening herself.

+1

It started with her pressing Varys to reveal his loyalties and she's continued in that vein. Some small but telling lines like when Jon asked was he a prisoner and she replying "not yet". She gives nothing away about how she's thinking, just pushing others to reveal what they want. Allowing Jon to mine the dragonglass cost her nothing except a few men, but it has Jon in her debt.

Interesting how she latched on to Davos' comment about the 'knife in the heart'. I suspect that question will be asked more directly.

podgemonster

rawn wrote: »

I think she does well, she comes across as regal in composure and delivers her words with power and conviction. I think it suits her characters new role in the show as I think she will be more ruthless and cold, and will make decisions that in the past she would never have made. She's hardening herself.

I don't question the dialogue given to Dany, its fine, but Clarkes delivery lacks complexity.


She no doubt been directed to be more stern, composed and regal but she's the Mother of Dragons not an Ice Queen. Every order, every move has come from Tyrion, we know her past, this "New Role" is just that she's on the offence for a change, its still the Dany we've watch for 6 seasons. She's unsure of what to do and everything so far has gone against her yet we see no vulnerability in the performance, no doubt, no frustration, she remains passive, still, no spark.


Dinklage, Cunningham and Harrington are out acting her in every scene.

Savage Tyrant

I don't get the criticism of Emilia Clarke's acting. I genuinely think she's great in the part and I like her scenes and delivery. I enjoyed the scenes with Jon, Davos and Tyrion.
Bran and Sansa scenes were flat. Little emotion if any. Just not enjoyable.
Lady Olenna bosses every scene she's in.
Sam's scenes are still boring, but the lack of Gilly helps somewhat.
The play to take Highgarden while letting Casterly Rock fall, but in an unsustainable position was brilliant. I'm disappointed I won't learn that. For the first time in the books. I'm sure it'll be brilliantly played in the books.
I though Ellaria was going to have her head popped by the Mountain, then I assumed her daughter was for that fate instead.... The actual punishment Cersei settled on was genius. The first time I've felt proper emotion in any scene involving the Dornish so far. The thoughts of living out your days a few feet from the rotting corpse of your child? That's harrowing.
Overall an enjoyable episode.

Baggly

Think of all Bran and Sansa have been through since they have been apart and (in terms of their family) alone.

I should imagine i would be quite distant and emotionless if i had gone through either of their ordeals (nevermind if i found out i was a time travelling mind wizard).

awec

Arya the only remaining Stark who hasn't regrouped yet then? On current timelines you'd imagine that has to happen next week.

I wonder how long before word reaches Cersei that there are more Starks back in Winterfell.

Liam O

Have been critical of Clarke's acting in the past but have been impressed this season. Less shouty scenes though which I think she struggles with.

Where are the armies? Does Dorne not have a land army now? Highgarden must have had a lot of troops too. Are they all gone now that the heads on the family are captured or dead? The whole destroying a family a week shtick is spreading themselves quite thin.

The plot contrivances are starting to rack up and with what should be weeks passing by in the space of an episode where they are not checking in with all of the characters creates a lot of plot holes. Are we to believe that in the time it took Euron Greyjoy to find and destroy the fleet last week, get to kings Landing, sail around Dorne(?!) and get to Casterly rock that the BwB or Arya haven't made it to Winterfell? It's all just a show of set pieces at this stage really which is fine but a little disappointing how rushed everything is becoming.

leggo

Liam O wrote: »

Where are the armies? Does Dorne not have a land army now? Highgarden must have had a lot of troops too. Are they all gone now that the heads on the family are captured or dead?

Once their rulers have been killed, either the heads of the armies remaining loyal to their old lords etc would be killed themselves and the rest would get in line under the new rule. In this case, Randyll will have taken over. So it's get with the programme with him or die. In theory, someone else could gather the troops and rally them around another cause, but who is there left?

As for Dorne, in the vacuum left by Oberyn's death and Ellaria's capture, it's reasonable to assume there's now a power struggle involving people with the best claim to rule. But this likely won't be relevant to the main story because, in truth, whenever the war is over either the winning side will get in line or Dany/Cersei will just install someone loyal to their cause as leader there.

CMOTDibbler

Liam O wrote: »

Have been critical of Clarke's acting in the past but have been impressed this season. Less shouty scenes though which I think she struggles with.

Where are the armies? Does Dorne not have a land army now? Highgarden must have had a lot of troops too. Are they all gone now that the heads on the family are captured or dead? The whole destroying a family a week shtick is spreading themselves quite thin.

The plot contrivances are starting to rack up and with what should be weeks passing by in the space of an episode where they are not checking in with all of the characters creates a lot of plot holes. Are we to believe that in the time it took Euron Greyjoy to find and destroy the fleet last week, get to kings Landing, sail around Dorne(?!) and get to Casterly rock that the BwB or Arya haven't made it to Winterfell? It's all just a show of set pieces at this stage really which is fine but a little disappointing how rushed everything is becoming.

The writers discussed this issue a couple of years ago. Their problem was trying to carry a narrative in an episode without having a multitude of mini cameos in each one.

Even doing it in the books represented such a challenge that GRRM tried different ways of doing it. AFFC and ADWD were essentially one book but divided along character lines rather than time lines as the previous ones had done.

I'd find it distracting if we had a forced dialogue in each episode where one or more characters are telling us where everybody is or is going to be. Or, worse still, a little snippet of them en route somewhere as they tell us where they're going.

I'm much happier with the light touch they've used, leaving it up to us to figure the timelines. It's not that hard really. And if there's a gap somewhere, it shouldn't really matter. We can assume the travel happened. We don't really need to see it.

Liam O

leggo wrote: »

Once their rulers have been killed, either the heads of the armies remaining loyal to their old lords etc would be killed themselves and the rest would get in line under the new rule. In this case, Randyll will have taken over. So it's get with the programme with him or die. In theory, someone else could gather the troops and rally them around another cause, but who is there left?

As for Dorne, in the vacuum left by Oberyn's death and Ellaria's capture, it's reasonable to assume there's now a power struggle involving people with the best claim to rule. But this likely won't be relevant to the main story because, in truth, whenever the war is over either the winning side will get in line or Dany/Cersei will just install someone loyal to their cause as leader there.

I guess it's a problem you run into when you kill entire families rather than individuals. Grey Worm saying "where are the Lannisters" I thought was funny because as far as anyone is concerned there only seems to be 2 Lannisters left. If Jaime, Cersei and Tyrion bite the dust which isn't out of the question they don't even have a background character to take over now that Kevan and Lancel have both been chopped.

It just takes the scale and complexity out of it. There's not one character who is in power because of succession which is a little bit bonkers.

CMOTDibbler

Liam O wrote: »

I guess it's a problem you run into when you kill entire families rather than individuals. Grey Worm saying "where are the Lannisters" I thought was funny because as far as anyone is concerned there only seems to be 2 Lannisters left. If Jaime, Cersei and Tyrion bite the dust which isn't out of the question they don't even have a background character to take over now that Kevan and Lancel have both been chopped.

It just takes the scale and complexity out of it. There's not one character who is in power because of succession which is a little bit bonkers.

I could be taking you up wrong here, but I thought Grey Worm was referring to the Lannister army rather than family members. He was concerned about the low numbers of troops when he'd been obviously told to expect a much larger garrison.

As for the succession, it would be equally as easy (if it were necessary) to introduce "Cousin Tarwin" or some such if an heir were needed. No explanation necessary. Kevan Lannister didn't appear until he had a part to play.

lawlolawl

The teleporting armies/people and Varys turning into the worst spy ever are making this season rather brainless.

ThunbergsAreGo

Is Dany a bad actress or did she seem like real bitch in this episode?

I hope it's a slow turn for her