Season 7 Episode 3 "The Queen's Justice" - "Book readers"

CMOTDibbler · 02-08-2017 10:48am

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It would be a fair bit out of its time if it were cannons though. And the trajectory and range is too curved and short for a cannon. When Yara's fleet was attacked, they were coming down on the masts. A cannon would be shooting up. The sounds could have been from the impacts rather than the discharges.

....... · 02-08-2017 10:49am

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CMOTDibbler · 02-08-2017 10:58am

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I have no idea what sort of weapon they are. We've actually seen no pictures of them in action. All we know is that the projectile is some sort of fireball and that the slave masters of Yunkai used them too.

So they're not a 'secret' weapon, whatever they are. I'm just trying to tease it out through discussion. Sometimes somebody can come up with a reference or screen grab that puts it to bed and that's why we have these discussions imo.

eeguy · 02-08-2017 11:10am

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Watch again. It's tough to see, but they're firing forward. Same as the Master's fleet. At 4.14 there's a shot where the ships are bearing down on the Unsullied fleet and firing, so they have to be aimed forward.
https://youtu.be/rcfkSKBPMSc?t=3m56s

My point still stands that "Crossing the T" probably wouldn't have been invented. They use the same prop ship for all the ships in GoT and it's based on a caravel design, which would have been around a few hundred years before proper naval gun batteries. Also, crossing the T required both fleets to be sailing single file, which has never happened in GoT.

....... wrote: »

Ok Cmot - I know you just like to argue til the cows come home.

Feel free to believe it was whatever weapon you like, I believe it was cannons of some sort.

You can see in the video that they have a huge arc. And they're on fire, so definitely not a cannon

Gbear · 02-08-2017 12:29pm

There are no cannons in GOT.
We've seen no evidence of anyone who's discovered gunpowder yet except possibly the Red Priests and they use it to convince others they can do fire magic.

02-08-2017 12:34pm

How does the book readers version of this work.
There are vast differences now between the book and the TV, and not that TV is ahead how do we have a book readers section that we cant discuss things from not the TV episode?

Kunkka · 02-08-2017 12:43pm

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

How does the book readers version of this work.
There are vast differences now between the book and the TV, and not that TV is ahead how do we have a book readers section that we cant discuss things from not the TV episode?

Lady Stoneheart is a possible spoiler even though it is now looking extremely unlikely.

0byme75341jo28 · 02-08-2017 12:45pm

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

How does the book readers version of this work.
There are vast differences now between the book and the TV, and not that TV is ahead how do we have a book readers section that we cant discuss things from not the TV episode?

I think it's just so people who want to read the books at some stage don't have the differences spoiled on them..

....... · 02-08-2017 2:47pm

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02-08-2017 3:31pm

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Just odd, I thought this section would be to speak about how the book versions should be at this point.

I mean while the TV series is good, in the book we have 2 targeryons in Westeros, one with a massive army, and one with dragons. We have Edric storm off somewhere and Gendry. In the book we have lady stoneheart leading the BWB and no idea on the hound, so the differences at this point should be massive. The TV series is good and I understand that not all is transferable, but why have two different sections on boards which are speaking about the same thing.

At this point, if the TV series was following the books, we would have Victorian and Euron Greyjoy with massive fleets, Victorian is a bit more the mad fighter and Euron a Pirate, plus they have a mad priest brother. I prefer to think that both targeryons had made it out and that Rhagear has a real live son, besides Jon Snow.

EagererBeaver · 02-08-2017 3:42pm

There is a lot of backstory in the books that can be alluded to here but not in the other thread, e.g. some allusion to the marital status of Jon's parents, or where Young Ned might be off to of the flashbacks continue.

....... · 02-08-2017 3:46pm

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EagererBeaver · 02-08-2017 3:49pm

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If you mention anything about anything that hasnt yet happened onscreen you get shouted down for speculation.

Ok, well I've no idea what will happen next in the show but I know, from reading the books, that Ned went off to Starfall after the Tower of Joy, bringing Dawn with him. What else that might mean is up for speculators to speculate on, not me

02-08-2017 3:53pm

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Ok, well I've no idea what will happen next in the show but I know, from reading the books, that Ned went off to Starfall after the Tower of Joy, bringing Dawn with him. What else that might mean is up for speculators to speculate on, not me

A lot of the actual main character backstory was repeating in the series as the books. It was said in one episode that Ned was honorable, he even brought the sword of the morning back to its owners instead of keeping it as it was a family sword.

02-08-2017 3:55pm

EagererBeaver wrote: »

There is a lot of backstory in the books that can be alluded to here but not in the other thread, e.g. some allusion to the marital status of Jon's parents, or where Young Ned might be off to of the flashbacks continue.

But all of that is in the TV series, as in we know that Rhager had run off with Lyanna etc.

The biggest difference in the books to TV is that many characters simply are not on the TV.

CMOTDibbler · 02-08-2017 4:35pm

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No. Just in this episode.

Savage Tyrant · 02-08-2017 5:44pm

Does anyone here honestly still believe the book series will get finished?
It's looking like it'll be 2018 for TWoW... but will we even get A Dream of Spring? And at his writing speed what are we looking at? 2025? And that's if he doesn't slow down... he's not speeding up anyway.

Loafing Oaf · 02-08-2017 5:51pm

Savage Tyrant wrote: »

Does anyone here honestly still believe the book series will get finished?
It's looking like it'll be 2018 for TWoW... but will we even get A Dream of Spring? And at his writing speed what are we looking at? 2025? And that's if he doesn't slow down... he's not speeding up anyway.

Ah what's the hurry? Surely a man with this physique has another 20 years at least to play with?

martin.tiff

Gbear · 02-08-2017 5:56pm

Savage Tyrant wrote: »

Does anyone here honestly still believe the book series will get finished?
It's looking like it'll be 2018 for TWoW... but will we even get A Dream of Spring? And at his writing speed what are we looking at? 2025? And that's if he doesn't slow down... he's not speeding up anyway.

Probably not.

You'd expect DoS to be the easiest book to write in a long time.
He must've been thinking of how it wraps up nearly since the beginning, he'll have characters in locations where they can't really move from (like they probably won't be nipping over to Meereen randomly), he'll have limited their options by how they've grown, where they are, who're they're with and so on but even so, he's already at the stage where he'd probably want to be looking at retirement if he had a normal job and after WoW he's already got some other projects lined up - short stories and the like.

And every day is russian roulette if you're that weight at that age.

EagererBeaver · 02-08-2017 7:53pm

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

But all of that is in the TV series, as in we know that Rhager had run off with Lyanna etc.

The biggest difference in the books to TV is that many characters simply are not on the TV.

Really? There's been stuff in the TV show about Jon's parents maybe being married? I missed all that.

There's discussions about Tyrion's parentage

There's other stuff in the backstory in the books that is particularly pertinent now - Field of Fyre for example.

The jist of what I'm saying: there's plenty of room for two threads, get over it.

pinkypinky · 02-08-2017 8:18pm

Savage Tyrant wrote: »

Does anyone here honestly still believe the book series will get finished?
It's looking like it'll be 2018 for TWoW... but will we even get A Dream of Spring? And at his writing speed what are we looking at? 2025? And that's if he doesn't slow down... he's not speeding up anyway.

I actually think he's lost the agency to finish his own story. The TV is the canon now and I think far fewer people will read the books, particularly when they remember how meandering the last book was. He sorely needed an editor.

CMOTDibbler · 02-08-2017 8:26pm

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Really? There's been stuff in the TV show about Jon's parents maybe being married? I missed all that.

I don't think that's in the books either.

EagererBeaver · 02-08-2017 8:40pm

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I don't think that's in the books either.

If you read them carefully enough there are hints and suggestions.

CMOTDibbler · 02-08-2017 8:53pm

EagererBeaver wrote: »

If you read them carefully enough there are hints and suggestions.

From whom? There's nobody alive from when that could have occurred. Only Ned could have been told and he doesn't even admit Jon's Lyanna's son.

EagererBeaver · 02-08-2017 9:12pm

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

From whom? There's nobody alive from when that could have occurred. Only Ned could have been told and he doesn't even admit Jon's Lyanna's son.

a) is there not?

b) Hmmm, if only there was a character with a gift for seeing things from the past...

duploelabs · 02-08-2017 9:21pm

EagererBeaver wrote: »

a) is there not?

b) Hmmm, if only there was a character with a gift for seeing things from the past...

Or someone with an access to the library of the histories and records of westeros

eeguy · 02-08-2017 9:30pm

EagererBeaver wrote: »

a) is there not?

b) Hmmm, if only there was a character with a gift for seeing things from the past...

I'm fairly sure we'll get a scene where Lyanna and Rhaegar get married in a Godswood somewhere as Bran looks on.

CMOTDibbler · 02-08-2017 9:51pm

EagererBeaver wrote: »

a) is there not?

Well I suppose technically, such a hypothetical wedding may well have had more witnesses than the bride and groom. The likelihood it was the kingsguard and whoever blessed the marriage. But there's no mention of this in the books.

EagererBeaver wrote: »

b) Hmmm, if only there was a character with a gift for seeing things from the past...

Again. The books?

EagererBeaver · 02-08-2017 10:08pm

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Well I suppose technically, such a hypothetical wedding may well have had more witnesses than the bride and groom. The likelihood it was the kingsguard and whoever blessed the marriage. But there's no mention of this in the books.

Again. The books?

I never said there was mention. I said there were hints and allusions.

As for the character having flashbacks, no, of course that didn't happen in the books - it was on the show. I trust you remember.

pinkypinky · 02-08-2017 10:11pm

Wasn't Howland Reed there? He's never appeared in the show but it would be easy for Meera to introduce her father.

CMOTDibbler · 02-08-2017 10:14pm

EagererBeaver wrote: »

I never said there was mention. I said there were hints and allusions.

Of a marriage? You'll have to remind me because my recollection is the very vague possibilty of Lyanna's acquiescence to the 'kidnapping'.

EagererBeaver wrote: »

As for the character having flashbacks, no, of course that didn't happen in the books - it was on the show. I trust you remember.

I do. I just don't understand why you brought it up in a discussion about book references.

EagererBeaver · 02-08-2017 10:18pm

Well no, I merely responded to your statement that there was nothing in the books.

J. Marston · 02-08-2017 10:22pm

pinkypinky wrote: »

Wasn't Howland Reed there? He's never appeared in the show but it would be easy for Meera to introduce her father.

The show made a point of introducing him in the Tower of Joy flashback. They probably wouldn't do it for no reason. I think we'll see him at some point. Maybe word is sent to him from Winterfell and he arrives to bring Meera home.

podgemonster · 02-08-2017 10:32pm

J. Marston wrote: »

The show made a point of introducing him in the Tower of Joy flashback. They probably wouldn't do it for no reason. I think we'll see him at some point. Maybe word is sent to him from Winterfell and he arrives to bring Meera home.

Reed had to be there though as Dayne was about to send Ned to meet the old gods. No way could Ned have survived that.

It would be seriously cool to meet Howland Reed though, who'd play him? Gabriel Byrne would be great.

03-08-2017 8:58am

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Really? There's been stuff in the TV show about Jon's parents maybe being married? I missed all that.

There's discussions about Tyrion's parentage

There's other stuff in the backstory in the books that is particularly pertinent now - Field of Fyre for example.

The jist of what I'm saying: there's plenty of room for two threads, get over it.

Having read all the books, twice, I dont see anywhere it suggested the Rhaeger and Lyanna got married. Yes there is talk they loved each other and he obviously ran away with her, but even in the books I dont think it has been confirmed
I also dont think the books had confirmed that Jon is their child.
there is a good bit from Season 6 which has over taken the books, and now season 7 is outside them completely.

While I get the point of two threads and am "over it" I dont see the point of not using book based information on how this season "should be" if you had followed the books.

CMOTDibbler · 03-08-2017 9:12am

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

While I get the point of two threads and am "over it" I dont see the point of not using book based information on how this season "should be" if you had followed the books.

The best reason I can think of is that it's for people who haven't read the books yet but are watching the show, won't have the books spoiled for them should they decide to read them now or later.

Plus it can create confusion if book stuff is referred to on the TV thread and not presented as such.

03-08-2017 9:29am

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

The best reason I can think of is that it's for people who haven't read the books yet but are watching the show, won't have the books spoiled for them should they decide to read them now or later.

Plus it can create confusion if book stuff is referred to on the TV thread and not presented as such.

I more mean why is the TV stuff being said here and bypassing what the books would have been.
Generally in books by now we have a different Targaryeon in Westeros with one of the best fighting groups ever.

pinkypinky · 03-08-2017 9:46am

J. Marston wrote: »

The show made a point of introducing him in the Tower of Joy flashback. They probably wouldn't do it for no reason. I think we'll see him at some point. Maybe word is sent to him from Winterfell and he arrives to bring Meera home.

Sorry - I meant outside that flashback. He's the key to back-up the story. Why else would the Kingsguard be there if not to guard a member of the royal family? To my mind, them being there is tantamount to stating that R+L married in secret.

CMOTDibbler · 03-08-2017 10:08am

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

I more mean why is the TV stuff being said here and bypassing what the books would have been.
Generally in books by now we have a different Targaryeon in Westeros with one of the best fighting groups ever.

The clue is in the thread title and forum name/forum parent.

I think there are threads solely on the books over on the literature forum. Since we're past the books at this stage, it's hard to seperate the two. Some stuff is definitely different, but the main character's arcs are probably much the same. If we (or GRRM) live long enough for us to find out.

rawn · 03-08-2017 10:38am

pinkypinky wrote:

Sorry - I meant outside that flashback. He's the key to back-up the story. Why else would the Kingsguard be there if not to guard a member of the royal family? To my mind, them being there is tantamount to stating that R+L married in secret.

There's an even more likely theory that Jon's parents were actually Ned and Ashara Dayne ðŸ˜€

Grassey · 03-08-2017 11:14am

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Ah what's the hurry? Surely a man with this physique has another 20 years at least to play with?

We might get lucky and get Sanderson to finish them off, a la Wheel of time.

Kunkka · 03-08-2017 11:25am

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

There is some speculation that this guy talking to Bran in one of the season 7 trailers might be HR

Looks like the new Winterfell Maestor I think?

CMOTDibbler · 03-08-2017 11:33am

Kunkka wrote: »

Looks like the new Winterfell Maestor I think?

Actually no. This is Maester Wolkan:

EagererBeaver · 03-08-2017 11:34am

So? You can't see the guy's face in the first photo, could easily be him.

CMOTDibbler · 03-08-2017 11:46am

EagererBeaver wrote: »

So? You can't see the guy's face in the first photo, could easily be him.

The baldy bits are completely different. Also the first guy has big ears. Hair colouring is also different. A beard doesn't seem evident either.

matrim · 03-08-2017 11:56am

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

There is some speculation that ...

There's a speculation thread for those kind of images / talk.

Nerdlingr · 03-08-2017 12:21pm

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

There is some speculation that ...[/IMG]

Yeah, can we not have any speculation images/screen grabs on this thread please? I've avoided all trailers for this season and would rather not see images of upcoming episodes appearing on a present episode thread.

:)
Ta ta.

Gbear · 03-08-2017 6:06pm

I've enjoyed this series of reviews:
http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=36666

There's quite a lot of pages of it. It pretty much reviews season 6 from 3 different angles.

Mostly it rips the piss out of the show for what a load of absolute nonsense they've become in the last couple of series.
That's not to say that it says the shows are completely terrible.
Just that they're nonsense.

CMOTDibbler · 03-08-2017 6:47pm

Gbear wrote: »

I've enjoyed this series of reviews:
http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=36666

There's quite a lot of pages of it. It pretty much reviews season 6 from 3 different angles.

Mostly it rips the piss out of the show for what a load of absolute nonsense they've become in the last couple of series.
That's not to say that it says the shows are completely terrible.
Just that they're nonsense.

He certainly doesn't like the writers. That's for sure. So much so that he's actually attributing things that GRRM wrote to them.

I'm referring to his diatribe about Jon's death. Now, perhaps that's not what actually happened in ADWD, but it's so close as to be indistinguishable. In other words, whatever has befallen Jon at the end of ADWD will require a similar plot device to get him out of it.

I'd give him a pass on his diatribe on that basis except he makes absolutely no reference to ADWD in the criticism.

In some ways, it reads like one of those conspiracy theories about 9/11. It sounds good until you realise what they've left out to advance their theory.

Liam O · 03-08-2017 8:32pm

rawn wrote: »

There's an even more likely theory that Jon's parents were actually Ned and Ashara Dayne &#55357;&#56832;

I don't think that's more likely than R+L at all?

Jons parentage was guessed long ago. Anything said to the contrary is a diversion.

Season 7 Episode 3 "The Queen's Justice" - "Book readers"

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