Season 7 Episode 3 "The Queen's Justice" - "Book readers"

rawn

Liam O wrote: »

I don't think that's more likely than R+L at all?

Jons parentage was guessed long ago. Anything said to the contrary is a diversion.

Or maybe the popular theory is a diversion :eek:

They met at the same tourney Rhaegar met Lyanna. Ned visits Ashara after the Tower of Joy to return her brother's sword. He leaves the bones of his friends but goes out of the way to return the sword? She miscarries a child and throws herself into the ocean, no body found. Ned returns home with Jon.

In his POV chapters, when he thinks of bastards he doesn't think of Jon. He thinks of Jon when he thinks of his children.

Liam O

rawn wrote: »

Or maybe the popular theory is a diversion :eek:

They met at the same tourney Rhaegar met Lyanna. Ned visits Ashara after the Tower of Joy to return her brother's sword. He leaves the bones of his friends but goes out of the way to return the sword? She miscarries a child and throws herself into the ocean, no body found. Ned returns home with Jon.

In his POV chapters, when he thinks of bastards he doesn't think of Jon. He thinks of Jon when he thinks of his children.

Not much of a diversion when the majority of the people in Westeros think it true. The other stories that have been heard throughout the books are clearly a running joke that has been put in by GRRM.

He returned the family sword because he is a man of honour. Who was married and doesn't do dishonourable things such as impregnate people who aren't his wife.

He doesn't think of Jon as a bastard because he is his nephew.

rawn

Liam O wrote: »

Not much of a diversion when the majority of the people in Westeros think it true. The other stories that have been heard throughout the books are clearly a running joke that has been put in by GRRM.

He returned the family sword because he is a man of honour. Who was married and doesn't do dishonourable things such as impregnate people who aren't his wife.

He doesn't think of Jon as a bastard because he is his nephew.

This is a great discussion for another thread but I'll just leave this here, he explains it better than I ever could! It's just another theory, I find it a bit more plausible than R + L = J but that's just me

Gbear

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

He certainly doesn't like the writers. That's for sure. So much so that he's actually attributing things that GRRM wrote to them.

I'm referring to his diatribe about Jon's death. Now, perhaps that's not what actually happened in ADWD, but it's so close as to be indistinguishable. In other words, whatever has befallen Jon at the end of ADWD will require a similar plot device to get him out of it.

The bits he took issue with about Jon's death were from season 6 and not written by Martin. He hasn't written for the show since season 4.

If GRRM makes it daft and arbitrary then we can slag him off then, but he's generally avoided doing that in the books thus far, with fairly-well defined rules that make the universe coherent.

There's any number of consistent in-universe ways that JS can survive. It's been endlessly speculated on since before it aired on TV - maybe Mel wil sacrifice Shireen, maybe she'll sacrifice Ghost; who knows.

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I'd give him a pass on his diatribe on that basis except he makes absolutely no reference to ADWD in the criticism.

In some ways, it reads like one of those conspiracy theories about 9/11. It sounds good until you realise what they've left out to advance their theory.

The show needs to stand on its own merits and make sense on its own, so while he's free to contrast with the books, there's no requirement to do so.

Your criticism is weak without mentioning what was appraently left out.

There's a measure of trust being extended to GRRM about how he's going to handle this scene, and that it's expected to make sense in a way it doesn't in the show, but, admittedly, that's based on what has come before.

It could be that he makes a balls of it as well.
At any rate, that wouldn't be relevant to the criticism of the show.

CMOTDibbler

Gbear wrote: »

Your criticism is weak without mentioning what was appraently left out.

There's a measure of trust being extended to GRRM about how he's going to handle this scene, and that it's expected to make sense in a way it doesn't in the show, but, admittedly, that's based on what has come before.

It could be that he makes a balls of it as well.
At any rate, that wouldn't be relevant to the criticism of the show.

I can't really discuss this here without going way off topic. For me, it read as a lot of puffery about his own cleverness followed by a very sparse critique of the show without any semblance of balance to the criticism. He asks a lot of "why did they do this?" or "why did X do that?" questions which I've seen before on other fora and which have been discussed at length with many of those questions answered plausibly. He doesn't even attempt to do that. He even starts the whole series of blogs with a "I hate this show" diatribe.

He predicts people walking away from it and it collapsing. Yet year on year it extends its viewership. The first episode of season seven had over thirty million veiwers across all HBO's available platforms.

CMOTDibbler

rawn wrote: »

This is a great discussion for another thread but I'll just leave this here, he explains it better than I ever could! It's just another theory, I find it a bit more plausible than R + L = J but that's just me

Here's a full examination of all the different theories. It's a bit more... coherent.

Danjamin1

Gbear wrote: »

maybe she'll sacrifice Ghost; who knows.

:eek: I hope to f**k that doesn't happen!!

Danjamin1

pinkypinky wrote: »

I actually think he's lost the agency to finish his own story. The TV is the canon now and I think far fewer people will read the books, particularly when they remember how meandering the last book was. He sorely needed an editor.

If that's the case I'm disappointed, the show will always be canon for me & the show is a poor substitute, kinda like fan fiction at this stage. When it was based directly on the books the show was brilliant, but I don't think Weiss & Benioff's writing is up to scratch. I'm still eagerly anticipating an announcement from GRRM on WOW.

Thargor

wp_rathead wrote: »

My prediction for Yara:

To be tied to the prow of The Silence with her tongue cut out like the Falia Flowers character

Thats a good call, Id say we could see that happening alright.

Then again since they got ahead of GRRM my opinion of the shows writers gets lower every week so she'll probably just escape and kill Euron in some unlikely and lazy way.