Season 7 Episode 3 "The Queen's Justice" - "Non book readers"

Arghus

Probably the best episode of the season so far. The pacing is still 100% top gear all the way, but there seemed to be a greater emphasis this week on dialogue and interaction between characters and differing plot strands - which was a pleasant change after the Storm und Drang of Episode Two.

Back to the pacing - jeepers it didn't take long for Jon to make it to Dragonstone. And did he come all the way in that little currach? Probably not, I'm near certain that he had a massive fck off ship moored further off shore somewhere, but he just wanted to underline his ordinary bloke credentials, possibly. Anyway the little preamble of a chat between Tyrion and The King of The North was nice and Jon got a chance to have his mind blown by some flying leathery fire breathers - even if I thought the CGI was markedly dodgy.

The long awaited meet between Daenerys and Jon was cool and also, at the same time, frustrating as hell. Cool in the sense that it was actually happening. Frustrating in the sense that it reminded me of times when you try to set up a friend with another friend who they haven't met - you know it should all work out - they'd be perfect together! - but then the whole thing doesn't work in damned pesky reality. When Daenerys was at her stupid unyielding worst, I felt like screaming at the TV - "He's a super sound lad! He'll treat you right!". But Jon, to be fair to him, didn't take any guff and wasn't going to bend any of those knees for anybody - even if it was touch and go for a while whether he'd become a cinder due to his perceived impudence. We also got some prime Davos this week, which is great because the double act between him and Jon is the greatest sound man duo in all of Westeros. Davos stopped just short of lobbing the gob with Jon, but we all know he would if he absolutely had too.

But, eventually, after much moping and discussions atop some very Irish looking cliff faces it seems like Jon has done alright out of his trip to Dragonstone: he got what he came there for and those knees remain decidedly unbent. I even sensed something in that look that Daenerys gave him at the end of their final meeting seemed to suggest that she liked the cut of his jib - or at least the cut of his magnificently voluminous fur coat. It really is some coat.

Meanwhile down south - Euron's overacting. Now, I like Euron as a character - he's made a big impression. But, by Jesus, he was broad this week. I appreciate that he's supposed to a prize arsehole but some of his dialogue was utterly ludicrous and the delivery of it was a joke! - why would he be practically shouting those things he had to say to Jaime? Really? It always plays better when they - the bits of pointed dialogue - come across like knowing little digs rather than dumb yucks that can be heard loud and clear, even in the back row. Thumbs down for Euron this week. So much of a thumbs down in fact that he had me - almost - viewing the good old fashioned incest between Jaime and Cersei as a nice wholesome alternative to a potential shacking up between himself and the coldest hearted bitch in Game of Thrones.

For that is what she is. Cersei was cold this week: 0 Kelvin cold. When the dungeon scene started out the first thing I noticed was the lipstick. What's this, I thought, is she trying to soften her image - counter balance all that black she's sporting these days? But no - it was all part of of her dastardly cunning plan. I suppose it was a bit signposted, but I was easily misdirected by the presence of The Mountain, whose fist I was constantly expecting to smash through the Dornish young one's head like a football through the thinnest of glass. And, as it turns out, that would have actually been a better kinder death for poor old Bad Poosay. But Cersei doesn't do kind. Even though I find it interesting how we don't actually see a death, which does leave it kind of open ended. It's not like Cersei to pass up the opportunity to end an enemies life, but, at the same time, it's not like the show at all to fail to wallow in a gratuitous death scene, if one is supposed to be due. I was bracing myself for the inevitable rivers of gore that would surely start spurting forth from all orifices gagged and ungagged - but nothing happened.... Hmmm. Add to that the fact that Tyburn seemed remarkably noncommittal about how long it would take the poison to actually work. I could see the point of mentally torturing your captured foe with the potential, never too be truly realized, death of their loved one right before their eyes. Yeah that would be in some ways super cruel, much more so than killing someone outright. Yes, I like that. And no doubt Cersei likes that too, the stupendously evil bitch, so I'm sticking with that theory - at least until next week.

Have to say I really enjoyed the manner in which they let the climatic battles for Casterly Rock and High-Garden play out; It was a departure from the stylistic norm for the show. We still got our action, but overlaying it with Tyrion's oh-so-clever monologue and turning the simultaneous real and potential outcomes into a montage made gave a sense that I was in on some high level planning and the satisfaction that comes with it when it all comes together - surprise suckers! But then came that point when it all turned around and you realize that Tyrion isn't the only clever Lannister - and that the war is well and truly on.

I liked how we were spared another few minutes of semi-tiresome battle sequences at High-Garden and just went straight to the main course of Jaime V Grandma Tyrell. Probably the best scene in the episode I thought. Diana Rigg was great - polite malevolence to the very last and you just knew she had something up her sleeve to send Jaime away reeling from their encounter - even if he was the only one of the two of them that would eventually be walking away. She dropped a bombshell that's gonna have consequences. Much praise to Dianna Rigg, what an icon - pure class. Also much praise to Nikolaj Coster-Waldau who I thought was equally as good in the scene. And he was pretty good throughout the episode, there was a lot of Jaime, which is no bad thing. It was good to see him involved again. He's a conniving, incestuous, raping, murdering liar, but he's basically a good guy once you get to know him.

Also - Sam says here's one I descaled earlier and Jorah is, like, sound man. The Sansa and Bran reunion was interesting I suppose, but Bran kind of sucks the life out of everything with his seen it all before shtick and his monotone delivery. Turns out Sansa, underneath the ginger hair, has a first class logistical brain - adept at the planning and running of a castle. How does she do it? Littlefinger seemed all about convincing her to play all the angles, so she can be just about anything - even a really bad actor. And Theon can’t get much lower. Cheer up mate, maybe you might meet Sam someday and he could perform some miraculous dickgraft - the lad has got magic hands.

BoJack Horseman

mojesius wrote: »

Why the beef between melissandre and Varys? He seems to have major issues with her. Right she was on team Stannis but as pointed out last episode, Varys flip flopped a lot in the past too.

I could be wrong, but I think when Varys had his bits cut off for a magic ritual, it was to the Lord of Light..... I think.

He was rather scornful of the other Red Priestess in Myreen.

BoJack Horseman

glasso wrote: »

tAlso - not sure how lucrative the show is really. the main actors are commanding ridiculous fees not. Emilia Clarke as Daenerys gets £2 million per episode now. Cersei would be on similar.

The top 4 actors are getting $1.1m each for Season 7 & 8.

I just feel the money men might be too tight on the show, not giving it enough episode budget to really be the best the material lets them be.

I'm sure the show is very profitable because of international distribution rights.

BoJack Horseman

Hazys wrote: »

Anybody else think the Euron's acting is over the top and a little too cheesy?

Apparently he isn't a shadow on his character in the books.
The book character is Ramsay/Joffrey x 10

willmunny1990

mojesius wrote: »

Great episode. I'll miss grandma tyrell.

Why the beef between melissandre and Varys? He seems to have major issues with her. Right she was on team Stannis but as pointed out last episode, Varys flip flopped a lot in the past too.

He has an issue with magic, a another sorcerer made him a eunuch and threw his bits into fire for some sort of spell so he has a problem with people like her.

Danny had everything going for her when she arrived, 3 dragons, an armada, her own army, Dorne, High-garden and a waiting ally in the North if she played her cards right and somehow she managed to f*ck it all up, its a bit hard to believe they could be so tactically inept.

CMOTDibbler

Arghus wrote: »

Theon can’t get much lower. Cheer up mate, maybe you might meet Sam someday and he could perform some miraculous dickgraft - the lad has got magic hands.

Great post. More than a bit of thought went into that. We're not worthy!

CMOTDibbler

willmunny1990 wrote: »

He has an issue with magic, a another sorcerer made him a eunuch and threw his bits into fire for some sort of spell so he has a problem with people like her.

Danny had everything going for her when she arrived, 3 dragons, an armada, her own army, Dorne, High-garden and a waiting ally in the North if she played her cards right and somehow she managed to f*ck it all up, its a bit hard to believe they could be so tactically inept.

Well it's a lesson every general learns. You can make clever plans, but so can the enemy.

OneOfThem Stumbled

Sansa: Bran, Rickon's dead!
Bran: Ugh.

Shame Olenna had this army

Out hunting for jewelery for her or something.

lawlolawl

willmunny1990 wrote: »

He has an issue with magic, a another sorcerer made him a eunuch and threw his bits into fire for some sort of spell so he has a problem with people like her.

Danny had everything going for her when she arrived, 3 dragons, an armada, her own army, Dorne, High-garden and a waiting ally in the North if she played her cards right and somehow she managed to f*ck it all up, its a bit hard to believe they could be so tactically inept.

Don't forget that she also has Varys who is allegedly the greatest spy master ever but doesn't seem to know where any of the enemies armies are, ever.

My pet theory is that he is an inside man for the Lannisters.

BoJack Horseman

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

The top 4 actors are getting $1.1m each for Season 7 & 8.

I just feel the money men might be too tight on the show, not giving it enough episode budget to really be the best the material lets them be.

I'm sure the show is very profitable because of international distribution rights.

may be different figures in different places but below says £2mill per episode.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/2017/04/25/game-thrones-stars-reportedly-sign-biggest-pay-per-episode-deal/
http://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/795123/Game-of-Thrones-stars-to-be-paid-millions

According to The Express, main stars Emilia Clarke (Daenerys), Kit Harington (Jon Snow), Lena Headey (Cersei Lannister), Peter Dinklage (Tyrion Lannister) and Danish co-star Nikolaj Coster-Waldau (Jaime Lanister) are set to earn up to £2 million each per episode after signing golden contracts.

eeguy

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

And do what? The ships were at anchor and all the unsullied were on shore. At sea level, the horizon is barely three miles away, so they have that time to get the anchors up and try and sail away. Not a chance of even starting to get under way in that time. Ships at anchor are always sitting ducks. Only one way to go and the enemy is in that direction.

There has to be the time available to make these transitions. We're not looking at today and tomorrow type sequences. We don't even know if he was on board. Jaime made the jump to Highgarden through the same supposed wormhole, so how hard is it to imagine the required time was spent?

Jon got from the North to dragonstone in the time the credits rolled, Jaime got from KL to Highgarden in 10mins, Euron got from the Narrow Sea to KL to Casterly Rock in an episode.
We may just accept it.

It's funny how the entirety of Season 2 dealt with Stannis and the attack on KL.

We had 20 mins now where both Castlerly Rock and Highgarden were taken. Talk about an increase in pace!

leggo

Since when has the show ever scaled time though? Even GRRM has come out and said not to take account for time in the story, it's not something they've ever intended in the books or the show.

lawlolawl

leggo wrote: »

Since when has the show ever scaled time though? Even GRRM has come out and said not to take account for time in the story, it's not something they've ever intended in the books or the show.

It's gotten really bad this season though. People, armadas and armies are just teleporting willy nilly around Westeros simply to ham fistededly advance the plot. It's poor writing for a TV show.

It like someone playing an RPG and using fast travel all the time because they just want to finish the main quest

s15r330

People need to get over the timing already.
So what if they are in one place and then another in the next episode.
No one ever said it was in real time and also it is nearing the end, there isn't time to spend watching people get to their destinations over a number of episodes.
Rant over.

Billy86

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

Shame Olenna had this army

How much of that belonged to possibly the most sinister looking man in all of Westeros, though?

CMOTDibbler

lawlolawl wrote: »

It's gotten really bad this season though. People, armadas and armies are just teleporting willy nilly around Westeros simply to ham fistededly advance the plot. It's poor writing for a TV show.

It like someone playing an RPG and using fast travel all the time because they just want to finish the main quest

What's your solution? Characters engaging in meaningless conversations so that the viewers know what day it is, where they are going and when they'll arrive?

And this would have to happen in practically every scene or else have scenes of them travelling and nice "Four weeks later" subtitles appearing.

No thanks.

Dirty Dingus McGee

I think it's safe to say that Euron Greyjoy is the greatest character in the history of television.

FINGER IN THE BUM.

extra gravy

lawlolawl wrote: »

It's gotten really bad this season though. People, armadas and armies are just teleporting willy nilly around Westeros simply to ham fistededly advance the plot. It's poor writing for a TV show.

It like someone playing an RPG and using fast travel all the time because they just want to finish the main quest

How would you solve it then? Have an extra 10 episodes of pointless travelling scenes? Can never understand this complaint, it's a TV show not a documentary.

Lemlin

glasso wrote: »

may be different figures in different places but below says £2mill per episode.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/2017/04/25/game-thrones-stars-reportedly-sign-biggest-pay-per-episode-deal/
http://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/795123/Game-of-Thrones-stars-to-be-paid-millions

According to The Express, main stars Emilia Clarke (Daenerys), Kit Harington (Jon Snow), Lena Headey (Cersei Lannister), Peter Dinklage (Tyrion Lannister) and Danish co-star Nikolaj Coster-Waldau (Jaime Lanister) are set to earn up to £2 million each per episode after signing golden contracts.

Whatever about pay, it has to be getting tough to get such a large cast back together each season. For example, I saw one of the Sand Snakes say that she had to film her parts over two weekends as she wasn't available otherwise.

Stars like Eimilar Clarke are now starring in blockbusters and outgrowing Game of Thrones. She did a Termimator and is now in the new Han Solo film.

HBO are already talking about spin-off shows. Spin off shows that will allow them to start with a whole new set of unknown actors mixed in with some seasoned pros.

Billy86

Lemlin wrote: »

HBO are already talking about spin-off shows. Spin off shows that will allow them to start with a whole new set of unknown actors mixed in with some seasoned pros.

Bronn building his house name etc? Please? Please please please?

Lemlin

Billy86 wrote: »

Bronn building his house name etc? Please? Please please please?

We might get to see more of a young Robert and Ned!

Dirty Dingus McGee

Good episode I just wish we'd get more battle scenes and more blood and guts.Hopefully that's coming in the remaining 4 episodes.

The_Valeyard

I enjoyed that.

It seems loose ends are getting wrapped up and the character list is slowing getting diminished.

Vojera

Lady Olenna with the best line of the episode: [On Joffrey] "He really was a cunt, wasn't he?"

I really enjoyed the episode. The only miss for me was Bran and his apparent lack of emotion. I get that things have changed for him because he is more than the experiences of one man, but "It's hard to explain" didn't really cut it for me. Perhaps if we'd seen more of him between losing Hodor and here, it would be more expected or fit a bit better.

Loved the scenes with Cersei and her gifts. I like that she didn't go for the obvious choice of handing them over to the Mountain - although that could still happen to Ellaria, I guess.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Considering how big the show is the stars salary's aren't as big as I thought they might be.

Kelsey Grammer got $40 million for the last season of Frasier and it wasn't anywhere near as popular or as big a pop culture phenomena as Game of Thrones is.

Billy86

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Considering how big the show is the stars salary's aren't as big as I thought they might be.

Kelsey Grammer got $40 million for the last season of Frasier and it wasn't anywhere near as popular or as big a pop culture phenomena as Game of Thrones is.

Thing is, Frasier was Kelsey Grammar plus a small handful of others while GOT is a huge overall cast with a good half dozen or so at the forefront. Also while GOT may be more popular internationally (that would be my guess) and HBO's model as well as new platforms does alter it quite a bit, in pure head to head TV ratings Frasier wiped the floor with GOT.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frasier#Nielsen_ratings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Game_of_Thrones_episodes

flazio

Can we please take the pay conversation out of the episode thread.

accensi0n

flazio wrote: »

Can we please take the pay conversation out of the episode thread.

Anyone have a breakdown of the characters salaries?

eeguy

accensi0n wrote: »

Anyone have a breakdown of the characters salaries?

A quick Google should give you the answer.

accensi0n

eeguy wrote: »

A quick Google should give you the answer.

I'm only getting results for the cast's salaries.

messy tessy

Vojera wrote: »

Lady Olenna with the best line of the episode: [On Joffrey] "He really was a cunt, wasn't he?"

I really enjoyed the episode. The only miss for me was Bran and his apparent lack of emotion

Uncomfortable to watch that scene between him and Sansa

Lady Olenna such a bad ass! Easily my favourite character in the series.

Vojera

messy tessy wrote: »

Uncomfortable to watch that scene between him and Sansa

Yeah, I don't know was it supposed to show us that he's not really Bran Stark anymore, but it felt really weird.

naughto

"Does she like it gentle or rough? A finger in the bum?"

I have a feeling that when the time comes one day, Euron's corpse will be found with a fake golden hand up his ass.

rawn

Vojera wrote: »

I really enjoyed the episode. The only miss for me was Bran and his apparent lack of emotion. I get that things have changed for him because he is more than the experiences of one man, but "It's hard to explain" didn't really cut it for me. Perhaps if we'd seen more of him between losing Hodor and here, it would be more expected or fit a bit better.

Remember Bran is barely Bran anymore. His consciousness has been travelling across time, literally, for a long time now, living other people's lives. It must be strange to be yourself again, even for a minute or two.

Mr Crispy

I did smirk at that scene when Sansa said she was going back inside, and Bran said "I'll stay here for a little while". Yeah, no shit! She just left ya there. :pac:

JaMarcusHustle

Everything that's happened so far is exactly how that guy on Reddit who claimed he had a leak last year called it. Even down to the episodes he called it in.

How does someone get that many spoilers? Did he steal scripts or something?

Avatar MIA

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

How does someone get that many spoilers? Did he steal scripts or something?

Dunno, but we don't need to have them rehashed here... Just in case!

irishfeen

What a great episode! Such a sad ending because Lady Olenna was one of my favourite characters in the entire series.

Bran and Sansa meeting and Bran concentrating on that night she got married and raped makes me think she is indeed pregnant with Ramsey's child and he has foreseen it. Why else would he bring it up me thinks..

Tell me how

irishfeen wrote:

What a great episode! Such a sad ending because Lady Olenna was one of my favourite characters in the entire series.

I was surprised Jamie didn't cut her throat after she revealed she had killed Joffrey.

There was still time to make her suffer.

J. Marston

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

What's your solution? Characters engaging in meaningless conversations so that the viewers know what day it is, where they are going and when they'll arrive?

And this would have to happen in practically every scene or else have scenes of them travelling and nice "Four weeks later" subtitles appearing.

No thanks.

Well said. From GRRM himself...



One thing controlling a plot through a series of books and hopping between timelines. Another thing completely doing it for an TV show and the creators are doing a brilliant job of it, with a few minor missteps along the way.

irishfeen

Tell me how wrote: »

I was surprised Jamie didn't cut her throat after she revealed she had killed Joffrey.

There was still time to make her suffer.

I think it's simple, he is not a man of violence anymore ... he is waging war as military commander but he does know deep down that Lady Olenna is right and Cersei is poison.

dinneenp

Tell me how wrote: »

I was surprised Jamie didn't cut her throat after she revealed she had killed Joffrey.

There was still time to make her suffer.

Any chance that he didn't poison her, pretended to and got her to confess?

Loafing Oaf

Was it previously known (for definite) that Olenna offed Joffrey?

brevity

Did anyone else think the face in the tree looked like something from the mighty boosh?

eeguy

One small criticism, a pet peeve of mine was the perfectly manicured lawns that surround Casterly Rock and highgarden. Not a road, field, house or sheep in sight.

Surely if they're CGing in an entire army they could add in some features. Even a bit where the grass is all torn up after the army was marching on it.

Arghus

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Was it previously known (for definite) that Olenna offed Joffrey?

She mentioned it before somewhere.

rawn

Arghus wrote: »

She mentioned it before somewhere.

She told Maegery

eeguy

rawn wrote: »

She told Maegery

Little finger told Sansa about the poison necklace.

lawred2

Northern Spain will be due a surge in tourism now no doubt..

Vojera

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Was it previously known (for definite) that Olenna offed Joffrey?

Yes, there was a reveal where they showed that Olenna and Littlefinger conspired together to kill Joffrey, because Olenna couldn't stand the idea of Margaery being married to such a sadistic prick. They arranged for Sansa to wear a necklace with a poison locket (or something like that) by getting the guy she previously saved from Joffrey's wrath to make up a sob story about it, and Olenna retrieved the poison during the wedding and added it to Joffrey's wine.