Season 7 Episode 3 "The Queen's Justice" - "Non book readers"

MOH

s15r330 wrote: »

People need to get over the timing already.
So what if they are in one place and then another in the next episode.
No one ever said it was in real time and also it is nearing the end, there isn't time to spend watching people get to their destinations over a number of episodes.
Rant over.

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

What's your solution? Characters engaging in meaningless conversations so that the viewers know what day it is, where they are going and when they'll arrive?

And this would have to happen in practically every scene or else have scenes of them travelling and nice "Four weeks later" subtitles appearing.

No thanks.

Nobody's asking for a minute-by-minute accounting of where everybody is and how they got there.

A huge factor all the way through, especially in season 3, was that choosing where and when to commit your forces is pivotal.

Right now fleets and armies are just teleporting all over the place, to the point where it just makes no sense and ends up being immersion-breaking. I actually ended up looking at a map this week (don't think I ever have apart from season 1) in case everything just happened in a small corner of the world, but it ended up making even less sense then.

Teleportation aside, did I miss something about Oleanna big "reveal" at the end that she was the one who'd poisoned Joffrey? Was that not always suspected? I know Sansa had been blamed but I thought that was partly out of convenience from Cersei. Where was she supposed to have gotten the poison from without outside help? I thought it was always heavily implied House Tyrell had were implicated

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I suppose that is the joy of a series where everything isnt clear cut, your theory is as valid as mine and vise versa.

just going back though to times where Bassiston Selmey spoke about Rhaeger to Dany, other had described him in a similar light.

Still, how and if they got married and had baby Jon is also good, it would mean Jon is the true king, both North and South!

CMOTDibbler

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

I suppose that is the joy of a series where everything isnt clear cut, your theory is as valid as mine and vise versa.

just going back though to times where Bassiston Selmey spoke about Rhaeger to Dany, other had described him in a similar light.

Still, how and if they got married and had baby Jon is also good, it would mean Jon is the true king, both North and South!

There is this from the Tower of Joy flashback:

Eddard Stark: "The Mad King is dead. Rhaegar lies beneath the ground. Why weren't you there to protect your prince?"
Arthur Dayne: "Our prince wanted us here."

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Daledge

MOH wrote: »

Teleportation aside, did I miss something about Oleanna big "reveal" at the end that she was the one who'd poisoned Joffrey? Was that not always suspected? I know Sansa had been blamed but I thought that was partly out of convenience from Cersei. Where was she supposed to have gotten the poison from without outside help? I thought it was always heavily implied House Tyrell had were implicated

We as the audience knew, Olenna admitted it to Margaery in an earlier scene and I believe littlefinger discussed it at one point also, but it's the first time it's been revealed to someone not on their side who won't keep it secret.

I personally think it's being looked at too much, I doubt it'll be too important. However it could possibly drive a wedge between Jaime and Cersei now that he knows for sure Tyrion was innocent. Cersei will probably still refuse to admit it.

Crea

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

And I'd just like to take a moment to, well, thank everyone who has made this my most thanked post. To be honest I owe it all to the poster who called Sansa 'Santa'. I'm glad to say it has eclipsed my 'Jewish paedophile' gag in the "try harder if ye want a second joke thread thread," which somehow isn't the same fount of innocent hilarity in these post-Myers times...

Happy to help

CMOTDibbler

MOH wrote: »

Nobody's asking for a minute-by-minute accounting of where everybody is and how they got there.

A huge factor all the way through, especially in season 3, was that choosing where and when to commit your forces is pivotal.

Right now fleets and armies are just teleporting all over the place, to the point where it just makes no sense and ends up being immersion-breaking. I actually ended up looking at a map this week (don't think I ever have apart from season 1) in case everything just happened in a small corner of the world, but it ended up making even less sense then.

It doesn't take a lot of work to figure out timelines. There have been complaints about this in previous seasons too. Ned Stark got from Winterfell to Kings landing in just over one episode. The only difference is that we had a few clips along the way, the same as we had of Jon and Tyrion's trip to the wall with Benjen Stark. That trip of Ned's should have taken months.

I've also looked at maps and the following is what I've learned:

Winterfell to Kings Landing is about 2000 miles
By sea from Dragonstone/KL to Casterly Rock should take about a month.
By land from Kings Landing to Highgarden is also about a month's travel
Dragonstone to Kings Landing is about 300 miles.

MOH wrote: »

Teleportation aside, did I miss something about Oleanna big "reveal" at the end that she was the one who'd poisoned Joffrey? Was that not always suspected? I know Sansa had been blamed but I thought that was partly out of convenience from Cersei. Where was she supposed to have gotten the poison from without outside help? I thought it was always heavily implied House Tyrell had were implicated

It was said out straight by Olenna to Margaery. No mystery to us, but obviously a big shock to Jaime.

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Santan

I've also looked at maps and the following is what I've learned:

Winterfell to Kings Landing is about 2000 miles
By sea from Dragonstone/KL to Casterly Rock should take about a month.
By land from Kings Landing to Highgarden is also about a month's travel
Dragonstone to Kings Landing is about 300 miles.


i think this is a big issue, how can an army of the size jamie had go from casterly rock to highgarden, without any of dany's side hear anything about it, you would at least think that vary's has someone left that reports back to him

CMOTDibbler

Santan wrote: »

i think this is a big issue, how can an army of the size jamie had go from casterly rock to highgarden, without any of dany's side hear anything about it, you would at least think that vary's has someone left that reports back to him

It's already been established that his little birds are now being controlled by Qyburn, so that's all his intelligence from KL gone.

Then there's the raven problem; they have to be homed to their destination and exchanged with all the destinations you expect to be communicating with. And finally, there are no Westerosi amongst Dany's army who could blend in and pass as locals to gather info.

The Lannister army could also have sailed down to Highgarden, although I don't think they had many ships to do it with. I'm scratching my head as to how Grey Worm is going to tell them of their virtual imprisonment on Casterly Rock. I'd have to assume they'd have ravens with them for that.

Communications in mediaeval times were difficult.

Santan

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

It's already been established that his little birds are now being controlled by Qyburn, so that's all his intelligence from KL gone.

Then there's the raven problem; they have to be homed to their destination and exchanged with all the destinations you expect to be communicating with. And finally, there are no Westerosi amongst Dany's army who could blend in and pass as locals to gather info.

The Lannister army could also have sailed down to Highgarden, although I don't think they had many ships to do it with. I'm scratching my head as to how Grey Worm is going to tell them of their virtual imprisonment on Casterly Rock. I'd have to assume they'd have ravens with them for that.

Communications in mediaeval times were difficult.

yeah I so get that, and I can and do suspend my belief for all the quick traveling around so we can get on with the show and story without having to have 20 episodes of watching everyone going from one place to the next, but to me its just poor writing from the show to just have everyone accept that an army of however many thousands traveled for, I dont know 1 month? without any one from the other army hearing anything, and then on the next side we have to accept the dany´s army sailed to castrly rock but were watched the whole way so they could be ambushed by thousands of greyjoy ships. For the sake of the story I will just move on, but I fully understand why a lot of book readers and show followers are annoyed at the bad script writing and the expectation of "well thats just how it is" form the producers.

wp_rathead

....... wrote: »

I dont disagree that this could be the case but I dont remember any particular scenes where this level of loyalty by Arthur Dayne was indicated in the series? Is there a scene I have forgotten?

There's Barristan Selmy talking to Dany of how Rheagar soilders loved him, I vaguely remember Varys talking of it too
Tower of Joy scene also shows that Arthur Dayne was still loyal to him even though he knew him and Mad King were dead
Is there a scene with Arthur going "even if that kid is just a bastard I'll protect him"? No.
Again I see where you are coming from, but even if "just a bastard" he is Rheagars child that they were told to protect so they would have carried out their duty (shame they weren't around to save his other children back in Kings Landing where they were needed against The Mountain)

CMOTDibbler

wp_rathead wrote: »

Again I see where you are coming from, but even if "just a bastard" he is Rheagars child that they were told to protect so they would have carried out their duty (shame they weren't around to save his other children back in Kings Landing where they were needed against The Mountain)

Kings Landing would have been considered much safer. It was only taken by Tywin pretending he was there to defend it.

Penn

wp_rathead wrote: »

Again I see where you are coming from, but even if "just a bastard" he is Rheagars child that they were told to protect so they would have carried out their duty (shame they weren't around to save his other children back in Kings Landing where they were needed against The Mountain)

From what I remember, Rhaegar essentially ran off with Lyanna (hence why Robert thought he kidnapped her and started the rebellion to save her). So I think that's why he only had a few men guarding (now pregnant) Lyanna in a secret location.

CMOTDibbler

Penn wrote: »

From what I remember, Rhaegar essentially ran off with Lyanna (hence why Robert thought he kidnapped her and started the rebellion to save her). So I think that's why he only had a few men guarding (now pregnant) Lyanna in a secret location.

I'm not sure if the rebellion would have started if it had just been Rhaegar running off with Lyanna. Aerys killing the Starks out of hand was probably the catalyst. Had he just called Rhaegar back to explain himself and Lyanna testified to her willingness to go with him, Robert would have been furious but would have found it hard to raise a rebellion on those grounds.

Penn

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I'm not sure if the rebellion would have started if it had just been Rhaegar running off with Lyanna. Aerys killing the Starks out of hand was probably the catalyst. Had he just called Rhaegar back to explain himself and Lyanna testified to her willingness to go with him, Robert would have been furious but would have found it hard to raise a rebellion on those grounds.

Yeah could be right. Was never fully sure on the timeline of what events there happened in what order

CMOTDibbler

Penn wrote: »

Yeah could be right. Was never fully sure on the timeline of what events there happened in what order

Well it was clearly at least nine months from Lyanna's 'kidnapping' to the time Ned found her at the Tower of Joy.

CMOTDibbler

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I'm not sure if the rebellion would have started if it had just been Rhaegar running off with Lyanna. Aerys killing the Starks out of hand was probably the catalyst. Had he just called Rhaegar back to explain himself and Lyanna testified to her willingness to go with him, Robert would have been furious but would have found it hard to raise a rebellion on those grounds.

I think from both books and TV series that the rebellion had been building due to the kings madness and old targaryeon rule, Rhaeger kidnapping of Lyanna and then the buring of the Starks who went to ask for her back was the kick off.

It was said a few times in Both that Eddard Stark could have taken the throne if he wanted to, he was there when the king died, he had an Army and was liked by all, Tywin Lannister would have supported him, but Eddard gave it to Robert as "honor" said he had a closer claim to it and he started the rebellion.

frostyjacks

Cersei's revenge on Ellaria was quite humane, considering she murdered her daughter. Septa Unella got it way worse for a lot less. I'm guessing she's not finished with her just yet.

wp_rathead

frostyjacks wrote: »

Cersei's revenge on Ellaria was quite humane, considering she murdered her daughter. Septa Unella got it way worse for a lot less. I'm guessing she's not finished with her just yet.

Physically yes- but seeing your daughter decompose will surely drive you insane

eeguy

I'd say we'll have a Field of Fire rehash.

All the crown forces against Danys defeated army and 3 dragons.

Avatar MIA

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Robert would have been furious but would have found it hard to raise a rebellion on those grounds.

Gotta love the level of immersion in GOT's, stating the above for a fictional universe.

rawn

frostyjacks wrote: »

Cersei's revenge on Ellaria was quite humane, considering she murdered her daughter. Septa Unella got it way worse for a lot less. I'm guessing she's not finished with her just yet.

It's worse. Watching her daughter slowly die, unable to speak to her or touch her to comfort her, then spending the rest of her days with her daughter's corpse, in a cold dungeon, being forcefed and humilated. Personally I'd bite my own tongue off and drown myself in the blood

frostyjacks

rawn wrote: »

It's worse. Watching her daughter slowly die, unable to speak to her or touch her to comfort her, then spending the rest of her days with her daughter's corpse, in a cold dungeon, being forcefed and humilated. Personally I'd bite my own tongue off and drown myself in the blood

I think they want to use the rapey rapey stuff sparingly for fear of further criticism, otherwise the daughter would have got it big time.

leggo

To try settle (HA!) both arguments going on here:

1) Both sides are right about Rhaegar's king's guard. Selmy did talk to Dany about people's devotion towards him in the show, but not that specifically. However, it's also a good, educated guess that this big revelation the entire show had been building up to doesn't amount to nothing, so when GRRM can simply with the stroke of a pen choose to have it be game-changing (Leanna and Rhaegar were married, Jon has a stronger claim than Dany but may never be able to legitimise it) or irrelevant (Jon's a bastard but he's Rhaegar's son, cool story bro)...it's incredibly logical to assume he might go for the former option.

2) The timelines have NEVER been established in Game of Thrones. In the books GRRM even left a note to say as much, so that's as canon as anything else on the show! It is a dramatic change of pace, yes, but the best way to watch it is to assume we're watching all the relevant moments ala a montage (which is what the Casterly Rock/Highgarden scenes was). You can let your OCD ruin the show for you, or you can just accept that the pace has changed and that you, in fact, never had a right to expect anything different because this conflict has been flagged since before there was even a show! This isn't 24, it's not a time-specific show, it never has been. The pace picking up is just the way it is. You can accept it and enjoy it, or you can choose to fight this pointless battle and not enjoy the show for some reason also.

Daledge

rawn wrote: »

It's worse. Watching her daughter slowly die, unable to speak to her or touch her to comfort her, then spending the rest of her days with her daughter's corpse, in a cold dungeon, being forcefed and humilated. Personally I'd bite my own tongue off and drown myself in the blood

I've never been gagged but I'd imagine that would stop you from doing so.

Alanhooly

I'm not gonna post it or anything but episode 4 has been leaked online.

You lads/ladies probably already knew that but just incase there's anyone that didn't know and can't wait until Sunday/Monday

jcd5971

Alanhooly wrote:

I'm not gonna post it or anything but episode 4 has been leaked online.

The actual episode or just the script?

AlmightyCushion

jcd5971 wrote: »

The actual episode or just the script?

The actual episode. Apparently, the quality isn't great.

team_actimel

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

The actual episode. Apparently, the quality isn't great.

If the quality isn't great, where did it get leaked from?

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jcd5971

AlmightyCushion wrote:

The actual episode. Apparently, the quality isn't great.

That's a big pile of nope then already had to turn up contrast and brightness to make out some of this season and that's in hd on a bloody good tell.

AlmightyCushion

team_actimel wrote: »

If the quality isn't great, where did it get leaked from?

https://www.theverge.com/2017/8/4/16094764/game-of-thrones-episode-4-leak-hack-star-india-hbo

Penn

frostyjacks wrote: »

I think they want to use the rapey rapey stuff sparingly for fear of further criticism, otherwise the daughter would have got it big time.

No she wouldn't, what Cersei did to the daughter was a direct response to how Ellaria killed Marcella. Killing her in the exact same way Ellaria killed Marcella, but making Ellaria have to watch her die and watch her body decompose.

It's about more than just punishing/killing Ellaria and her daughter, it's direct revenge by making them go through what she had to, but worse. The daughter knowing she's going to die, and the mother losing her daughter right in front of her.

Avatar MIA

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

https://www.theverge.com/2017/8/4/16094764/game-of-thrones-episode-4-leak-hack-star-india-hbo

No SPOILERS. I'm not great at delayed gratification. I'd say quality of picture was about 90%.

Some ye are going to fupping wet yourselves. Okay, maybe that's a spoiler.

Mushy

Should the next episode thread be put up? Just with huge spoiler warnings at start of thread.

Slydice

The threads are here but locked:
"Non book readers" - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057769692
"book readers" - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057769693

there's a warning thread about episode 4 here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057770391

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CMOTDibbler

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golfball37

I watched it. Quality was fine. I had headphones and on my phone. Am speechless after it. I will wait up til 2am to watch it again on Sunday night and I'll probably watch again tomorrow. It just gets better and better.

mcgiggles

Holy f**k is all I can say!! Site i watched it on had a link to ep5 aswell!! Didn't check if it worked.. Couldn't do it to myself...

Quality was fine as long as I didn't put it in full screen (on laptop!)

EagererBeaver

mcgiggles wrote: »

Holy f**k is all I can say!! Bloody brilliant!! Site i watched it on had a link to ep5 aswell!! Couldn't do it to myself...

Ep 5? Actually? If so PM please. Otherwise I call bull****.

s15r330

mcgiggles wrote: »

Holy f**k is all I can say!! Site i watched it on had a link to ep5 aswell!! Didn't check if it worked.. Couldn't do it to myself...

Quality was fine as long as I didn't put it in full screen (on laptop!)

Pm me too please if so. Although lots of places have links but just trying to generate hits as far as I can see

Avatar MIA

s15r330 wrote: »

Pm me too please if so. Although lots of places have links but just trying to generate hits as far as I can see

One major site in particular has episode 5 up, but they're counting the season opener catchup, so Episode 5 is actually the leaked episode that we would consider episode 4.

turnikett1

Throw us a PM there as well boss

CMOTDibbler

Calm down lads, Episode 5 wasn't leaked.

mcgiggles

Sorry just saw these msgs.. will get the link off laptop and pm ye.. as I said I didn't check if it worked! The name they showed it as would make sense tho!