New rules to save £40 billion in UK electricity use by 2050

Oldtree

The BBC are really at it tonight

More practical and pragmatic ideas from our neighbours.

Thanks to improvements in digital technology, battery storage and renewables, these innovations in flexibility are already under way with millions of people across the UK generating and storing electricity.

The new rules have been designed to cash in on this.

The tiny energy savings of millions of people and firms will be pulled together into packages by traders, who will offer substantial chunks of energy saving to the National Grid at the click of a computer.

Electricity shake-up could save consumers 'up to £40bn'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40699986

Macha

I can't stress how much of a game changer this is. Through harnessing the demand response potential with residential and commercial energy customers, a huge amount of flexibility could be created, which is essential in a power system with high shares of renewables. 


As for people generating their own power, it's what energy democracy is all about. People have paid for the cost reductions in renewables and they should have the right to benefit if they want to by installing their own panels or becoming a member of a renewables cooperative. Plus it puts the utilities under pressure to start switching their business model to the new more decentralised energy system with some healthy competition.

Oldtree

It is very progressive and will lead to huge energy savings if implemented correctly. The only flaw I can find at the moment with this is the other side of the coin, the UK transmission network is old, in need of a serious update and not a whole lot being done about it on a grand scale to match the new rules.

but the real issue is the UK’s ageing energy infrastructure.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/epic/ngdot/11751146/The-National-Grid-must-change-to-stop-a-new-dark-age.html

Investment in the UK‟s electricity networks is needed for:
 renewal of ageing network. Much of the existing network was built in the 1950s-60s and needs replacing

http://www.parliament.uk/documents/post/postpn_372-future-electricity-networks.pdf

Macha

Well, in fact the promotion of demand response and more distributed generation will lead to a reduced need for transmission lines and energy losses on those lines, plus less need for expensive peaking plants. That's where a lot of the actual savings they're referring to will come from. Customers always pay for all costs for the energy system (unless the taxpayer picks up some of the bill).

That's not to say they won't also have to do much of the renewal of the network you're referring to, just that this will help reduce the need for new larger power lines to a certain degree.

Capt'n Midnight

Here the difference between average summer and winter demand is about 1GW.

It's reasonable to assume that most of this is for space heating or water heating which takes time to change temperature. So being able to shed 1GW of demand or soak it up for a few minutes would reduce some of the market for spinning reserve and a lot of the demand for 15 second to 90 second standby freeing up lots of payments.

It could undercut some of the less efficient OCGT and CHP plants

This is a no-brainer , the biggest problem is the billing.

Oldtree

Wouldn't smart meters be able to deal with the billing or any complex setup for that matter?

deandean

Ha I see a new word in there: Negawatts. When your net energy consumption from the grid is negative. Clever word.

Macha

Yeah, I also hear block chain being referred to as a transaction platform for all of the payments in this context. But I have no idea how it works!.

Wanderer78

Macha wrote:

Yeah, I also hear block chain being referred to as a transaction platform for all of the payments in this context. But I have no idea how it works!.

Block chain has been explained to me a million times and I still don't get it, Ellen Brown and Jim Richards speak highly of it though

Capt'n Midnight

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Block chain has been explained to me a million times and I still don't get it, Ellen Brown and Jim Richards speak highly of it though

H G Wells' film Things To Come (1936) had an economy based on air-miles

you could imagine an economy based on Units of electricity so that instead of mining bitcoins you buy , produce, sell , get paid in electricity

Cheating on proof of work would be the problem.

two wheels good

Oldtree wrote: »

Wouldn't smart meters be able to deal with the billing or any complex setup for that matter?

The accuracy and consumer confidence in smart meters will need to improve.

From March 2017 article:
"Smart meters are giving readings up to six times higher than the energy consumed by households when connected to energy-saving light bulbs, according to scientists.
A study conducted by the University of Twente Enschede in the Netherlands, has found that five different types of smart meters produced readings up to 583pc higher than the actual energy used. "

wildgreen

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Here the difference between average summer and winter demand is about 1GW.

It's reasonable to assume that most of this is for space heating or water heating which takes time to change temperature. So being able to shed 1GW of demand or soak it up for a few minutes would reduce some of the market for spinning reserve and a lot of the demand for 15 second to 90 second standby freeing up lots of payments.

It could undercut some of the less efficient OCGT and CHP plants

This is a no-brainer , the biggest problem is the billing.

Not too much difference between winter and summer for natural gas either apart from in residential use:

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/ngc/networkedgasconsumption2016/

dr.fuzzenstein

two wheels good wrote: »

The accuracy and consumer confidence in smart meters will need to improve.

From March 2017 article:
"Smart meters are giving readings up to six times higher than the energy consumed by households when connected to energy-saving light bulbs, according to scientists.
A study conducted by the University of Twente Enschede in the Netherlands, has found that five different types of smart meters produced readings up to 583pc higher than the actual energy used. "

That actually makes sense. Electric goods are becoming more and more efficient. Consumption falls, revenue falls, so let's "round up" a little. How will the consumer know or even prove that's the case? Any induction meter he uses can be shrugged off as wildly inaccurate.
Making electricity is expensive business, that can't be sustained if household bills fall by substantial amounts.
It's that or increase standing charges to €100 a month and that won't be popular. So it's best to rip them off with false readings and give them the warm, pink glow of environmentalism.

Chuchote

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Here the difference between average summer and winter demand is about 1GW.

It's reasonable to assume that most of this is for space heating or water heating which takes time to change temperature.

Not an assumption but common knowledge in the industry. It was the basis for government and EU subvention of solar panels for thermal water heating, which sadly disappeared with the redistribution of money to the rich after the bank crash.

ted1

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Macha wrote:

Yeah, I also hear block chain being referred to as a transaction platform for all of the payments in this context. But I have no idea how it works!.

Block chain has been explained to me a million times and I still don't get it, Ellen Brown and Jim Richards speak highly of it though

Block chain is basically cutting out the middle man.
If you have solar PV and rather than storing it in a battery or giving it free to the grid , you can sell it to a neighbour. And you get the revenue. It’s ideally suited to micro grids