Dublin 15 is going to get a lot more congested.

cython

Nijmegen wrote: »

More carriages tends to lead to union disruption over pay.

You're likely referring to a few years ago when the maximum length of DART trains was increased to 8 cars and the unions dug in. Since what is being suggested here is to increase the average length of trains (increasing the maximum length would necessitate lengthening platforms which is not going to happen soon if ever) to something closer to the maximum length, the unions wouldn't have a leg to stand on here.

I would, however, have a concern that they'd see the introduction of a new class of train (in the leased stock) as an opportunity to do similar.

Nijmegen

cython wrote: »

You're likely referring to a few years ago when the maximum length of DART trains was increased to 8 cars and the unions dug in. Since what is being suggested here is to increase the average length of trains (increasing the maximum length would necessitate lengthening platforms which is not going to happen soon if ever) to something closer to the maximum length, the unions wouldn't have a leg to stand on here.

I would, however, have a concern that they'd see the introduction of a new class of train (in the leased stock) as an opportunity to do similar.

Shamelessness has never seemed to be an issue around transport strikes in Ireland. Increased frequency of DART services was also teed up as a pay issue. If they suggested changing the colour of the trains the union would sniff and make noises about pay. http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-rail-10-minute-dart-2687904-Mar2016/

ciaran76

Piece in The Journal on the Barnhill Local Area Plan (LAP).

'Not now and not ever': 1,000 new homes planned for west Dublin, which locals say brings a 'high risk' of flooding


https://www.thejournal.ie/barnhill-dublin-houses-4493740-Feb2019/

Former Former

Excuse my ignorance but don't you need a river in the vicinity to have a flood plain?

That picture on the Journal article is of a field with a large puddle, not a flood.

OfflerCrocGod

I presume they are worried about the canal?

fletch

When's the last time the canal flooded?

PhoenixParker

Canals don't flood.

They're worried about rainwater collecting on the surface moreso than a specific watercourse flooding.

Ditches, streams and other small watercourses can cause flooding problems, doesn't have to be something you think of as a "river".

Former Former

PhoenixParker wrote: »

Canals don't flood.

They're worried about rainwater collecting on the surface moreso than a specific watercourse flooding.

Ditches, streams and other small watercourses can cause flooding problems, doesn't have to be something you think of as a "river".

Sounds like something that can be easily fixed with a drain...

TBH, if the county council was going to build "mixed tenure housing" beside my brand new 400k house, I'd be somewhat nervous too. I think we all would. That is more likely the issue but of course no one can say that.

Also; another school?? Really? Does every new estate need its own school?

Bargain_Hound

There is some chat regarding flooding on neighbouring lands in barnwell here: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055241472&page=158

Not sure how relevant it is to the new zone in question, but interesting that similar issues have been identified nearby with attempts to resolve.

Nijmegen

It's difficult to tell when planning objections come in what of the half dozen or so items listed is the real one. In this case they also cite objections over suitability in building up the area etc, ie classic nimbyism. I remember reading some objections a while back to the new mosque and Islamic center near ITB that seemed to show just how surprisingly exercised people were getting about mature trees on the site that might be affected.

With regards to water not draining properly, I'd imagine that's for the engineers to fix during construction. The park in Hollywoodrath doesn't drain properly (despite being right beside a drainage system that's partially uncovered running alongside it) and the builders are back on site working on it again. It's not that abnormal.

Phil.x

Two reasons why I think that area around hansfield station is a floodplain.

1, The train station is built up on top of a man made hill.

2, Those new apartments being built (2 yellow cranes) near the station and its surroundings have had its ground level extended by roughly 3foot high, now nearly level with the tracks.

Both of these projects the station and apartments both had to get planning permission, so I'd be very surprised if fingal weren't aware of the flood risks in that area, maybe they think engineering and landscaping can prevent it.

liamog

I love the objection due to transport links. It's literally on the side of a train station.

I've seen literature complaining about the number of trains per hour, if only their was some magical method of increasing the number of trains.

rolion

liamog wrote: »

I love the objection due to transport links. It's literally on the side of a train station.
QUOTE]

No offence here,but each house will have 2 cars at least.

beauf

liamog wrote: »

I love the objection due to transport links. It's literally on the side of a train station.

I've seen literature complaining about the number of trains per hour, if only their was some magical method of increasing the number of trains.

Do you get the train.

My trains over the past 4yrs are now shorter at peak and and almost impossible to get on. If I can't get on its 30 mins till the next train. Its been like that for decades. So fed up with it I've gone back to driving most of the time now.

When I hear the Dart and its 10 mins its twisting the knife.

Nijmegen

Phil.x wrote: »

Both of these projects the station and apartments both had to get planning permission, so I'd be very surprised if fingal weren't aware of the flood risks in that area, maybe they think engineering and landscaping can prevent it.

This is something journos slavishly re-writing the press releases from "concerned" (vote chasing) councilors should perhaps dig into. I'd say that the flood plan was looked at and taken into consideration in the planning, but somebody is looking to win a few nods in June because "he looked into that for us and sure didn't he try his best."

Good planning and engineering can solve most water problems. They already do in most places we humans live in. They can't solve for people who don't want to share their train into work, or public transport companies that don't want to lay on more and longer trains.

beauf

Nijmegen wrote: »

...They can't solve for people who don't want to share their train into work..

I'm not sure what this is meant to mean.

Nijmegen

beauf wrote: »

I'm not sure what this is meant to mean.

Folks who don't want a new estate built beside them and their train station. When you buy along relatively new transport infrastructure, expect any green fields to get built on fairly quickly afterward.

Zaph

Nijmegen wrote: »

Folks who don't want a new estate built beside them and their train station. When you buy along relatively new transport infrastructure, expect any green fields to get built on fairly quickly afterward.

I don't think it's surprising that people who are already using trains packed to bursting point wouldn't want a lot more potential passengers landed on their doorstep, especially when it's likely that there'd be no equivalent increase in capacity.

beauf

Nijmegen wrote: »

Folks who don't want a new estate built beside them and their train station. When you buy along relatively new transport infrastructure, expect any green fields to get built on fairly quickly afterward.

So what you are saying is...

Everyone downstream of every new development should expect their local infrastructure to become dysfunctional as a result.

That is normal. That is is planners and engineers doing a good job.

People are wrong to complain about the glaringly obvious problems of infrastructure capacity with these new developments.

beauf

Because it seems to me people who use trains are only too happy to share trains.

They are perhaps trying to warn those moving into the area of the capacity issues.

Those moving into the are, probably don't care. At least until someone else builds upstream of them.

ongarboy

beauf wrote: »

liamog wrote: »

I love the objection due to transport links. It's literally on the side of a train station.

I've seen literature complaining about the number of trains per hour, if only their was some magical method of increasing the number of trains.

Do you get the train.

My trains over the past 4yrs are now shorter at peak and and almost impossible to get on. If I can't get on its 30 mins till the next train. Its been like that for decades. So fed up with it I've gone back to driving most of the time now.

When I hear the Dart and its 10 mins its twisting the knife.

I get on at Hansfield daily, 8:24am departure and I get a seat 4 out of 5 mornings. Yes, by Ashtown it's a tight squeeze but how can you say you can't get on in the mornings if you're living in D15? Granted coming home in the evenings, it is a tight squeeze also if you arrive at the train less than a few minutes before departure. I'm not saying we don't need more carriages, we do, but expecting seats for all on commuter peak journeys is unrealistic. If I lived in Ashtown or Broombridge, I'd consider alternatives but no one in D15 beyond Ashtown can't not get on an inbound train. It would take me 90 mins to drive into town, train 30. No brainer!

beauf

Hansfield to Docklands is 27-29 on the time table. That's before delays and before getting to and from the station and before giving 10-15 mins extra to get a seat at least at the terminus. So door to door in 30 mins is pretty amazing.

For me its 15 min walk and 10 the other end so 25 mins then add the train journey which can be 20-30 depending on how its delayed. So just under an hour total. I can drive into town 35-50 mins usually. But obviously that is missing the peak time. I go before or after it. If I have to stop somewhere on the way home the car is quicker. In the middle of peak you'd be nuts to drive.

I'm before Ashtown, and I'm say I'm 40% standing into town, and always standing home if I'm not 10-15 early for the train. Often counted 30+ people standing between the carriages doors. Its not unusual for a few to decide its not worth it and stay on the platform.

Over the past 2yrs or so they've reduced the number of carriages at peak. Get a train off peak especially the Connolly and its twice the length. So in the last 4yrs and mostly the last 18 months, the docklands train has gone from pretty much empty to every inch filled with people standing everywhere. Luggage space, in toilets everywhere.

So it will be interesting how it will be in the next 2ys. Especially if a lot more development brings more people getting on at Dunboyne. I guess they'll say the same, there's no problem with seats, for them.

Phil.x

ongarboy wrote: »

I get on at Hansfield daily, 8:24am departure and I get a seat 4 out of 5 mornings. Yes, by Ashtown it's a tight squeeze but how can you say you can't get on in the mornings if you're living in D15? Granted coming home in the evenings, it is a tight squeeze also if you arrive at the train less than a few minutes before departure. I'm not saying we don't need more carriages, we do, but expecting seats for all on commuter peak journeys is unrealistic. If I lived in Ashtown or Broombridge, I'd consider alternatives but no one in D15 beyond Ashtown can't not get on an inbound train. It would take me 90 mins to drive into town, train 30. No brainer!

I get the 7.51am hansfield daily and never get a seat, IMO the 7.51 is the busiest of the morning lot, the 5pm home bound is getting busier by the week but its not the worst..yet.
I dont care about not getting a seat but i dont want a stranger with horse **** breath 5 inches from my face, i want a bit of breathing space literally.

beauf

Also to put that into perspective cycling its 35-45 into town for me and 40-60 home. Probably drop 10 mins off that on an eBike. Which I might switch to.

beauf

Phil.x wrote: »

...
I dont care about not getting a seat but i dont want a stranger with horse **** breath 5 inches from my face, i want a bit of breathing space literally.

Well thats it entirely. Its become very unpleasant. Also those carriages especially between the doors have no handles to hold. They are not designed for standing passengers. They can take the weight, but everyone goes flying in an accident.

Nijmegen

beauf wrote: »

Well thats it entirely. Its become very unpleasant. Also those carriages especially between the doors have no handles to hold. They are not designed for standing passengers. They can take the weight, but everyone goes flying in an accident.

The obsession with all seating trains in Ireland is odd. As you say, then no proper provision for handrails all over the place. And as for planning objections because of capacity issues, that’s a problem to solve by putting more capacity in rather than limiting development. (Or just building up closer to the city, but that’s another days row....)

Former Former

I've been getting the train from D15 for 20 years. The service is the best it has ever been. The trains between 745 and 815 are pretty hectic but of course they are. Get a train 15 minutes earlier or later and they're fine. If the 8am train wasn't rammed there would be a serious flaw in the system.

Could it be better? Yes. I'd love to see the Intercity trains gone and fewer 4 carriage trains

Should we stop building houses along the line? No. We should build more and more.

beauf

Nijmegen wrote: »

The obsession with all seating trains in Ireland is odd. As you say, then no proper provision for handrails all over the place. And as for planning objections because of capacity issues, that’s a problem to solve by putting more capacity in rather than limiting development. (Or just building up closer to the city, but that’s another days row....)

I didn't bring up seating you did. You keep doing it.
Why are you obsessed with it.

I just want to be able to stand safely. The luas, dart and arrow are designed to facilitate standing. The intercity trains aren't. There are no handles, no airflow in between the carriages. Its like a airless sauna.

beauf

Former Former wrote: »

I've been getting the train from D15 for 20 years. The service is the best it has ever been. The trains between 745 and 815 are pretty hectic but of course they are. Get a train 15 minutes earlier or later and they're fine. If the 8am train wasn't rammed there would be a serious flaw in the system.

Could it be better? Yes. I'd love to see the Intercity trains gone and fewer 4 carriage trains

Should we stop building houses along the line? No. We should build more and more.

.. and I've been getting the train from D15 for longer than that. So what?

They want to double the numbers on the docklands train, but at the same time they are reducing capacity and increasing demand. They have made the journey time longer. Delays in the last year are now common. There was a time it took 16 mins. Now 30 mins isn't uncommon. The train is often sitting between stations waiting for the line to clear.

I don't travel at peak. Usually after 9 and after 6. Still very busy. Early train the same. Was standing on the 4.30pm train recently.

The point is there has been massive rise in numbers on this line in a very short space of time, and they have reduced capacity. The plan is to massively increase demand. With all this new development will compound that.

No one is saying stop development. We are asking for the train to be improved not degraded as it has been.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/irelands-newest-train-station-could-move-because-of-major-shortfall-in-passengers-36916197.html

Nijmegen

beauf wrote: »

No one is saying stop development. We are asking for the train to be improved not degraded as it has been.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/irelands-newest-train-station-could-move-because-of-major-shortfall-in-passengers-36916197.html

I think we're in violent agreement!