Dublin 15 is going to get a lot more congested.

beauf

The thread title is D15 going to get more congested.

I'm not sure people grasp that it's regardless of how it is now, and if they are happy how it is now. It's going to get a lot worse. Lots of empty land behind D15. All the traffic from that and Meath will all come through D15.

We need a much improved train service. We've always needed it. As it lags not simply behind growth in the area. But it doesn't get the investment that it needs.

PhoenixParker

I was looking for that article from last year for this thread but couldn't find it.
It makes my blood boil.

In peak direction, there are six trains in the morning and eight trains in the evening, each with 3-4 carriages, mostly intercity style rather than commuter layout.

At least four of the morning trains are full to bursting and I'm pretty sure the other two are at least busy.
Evening trains I'm less familiar with but any I've been on (core peak times only) have been wedged.

It'd be nice if they moved the station a bit closer BUT the only reason there are "only" 1500 passengers is because the services only have capacity for 1500 passengers, not out of some underuse of the line.

Former Former

The fundamental problem with the trains is that we only need extra capacity at rush hour but any improvements have to be made on the service as a whole.

Upgrading the line, new/additional trains, better signalling, electrification, whatever - these are all huge capital costs that only really benefit the service in a 60 minute window in the morning and another in the evening (and even then, only in one direction). The cost-benefit to the overall service is marginal at best.

So you could look at it a different way and say that if more development increases the population along the line, then it improves the business case for the massive investment that is required, so these plans are a good thing. If anything, we need even more rezonings.

beauf

Using the Dockland station to other parts of the city is often quicker as it faster into the city than Connolly train. It takes a long time to exist Connolly and there is quite often a delay of 10 mins getting into it.

They could market the Docklands as an express route into City Centre. Its a hugely under utilised resource. As usually no service links up with it. If they had a cycle expressways lanes from it. It would be a fantastic hub.

You don't need a new business case. There are a dozen already there for it. Population has increased many times over already.
But they have chosen not to develop it, and indeed other lines get preference over it.

D15 is at the bottom of the list when it comes to priority.

ongarboy

beauf wrote: »

Hansfield to Docklands is 27-29 on the time table. That's before delays and before getting to and from the station and before giving 10-15 mins extra to get a seat at least at the terminus. So door to door in 30 mins is pretty amazing.

Sorry, I should have clarified that 30 minutes is my train journey time. I do have 10 minute walks at each end but for some reason I don't view walking as part of my commuting slog as I enjoy that fresh air/exercise/mini down time before I face the working day....as long as the weather is dry....

Phil.x

Former Former wrote: »

The fundamental problem with the trains is that we only need extra capacity at rush hour but any improvements have to be made on the service as a whole.

Upgrading the line, new/additional trains, better signalling, electrification, whatever - these are all huge capital costs that only really benefit the service in a 60 minute window in the morning and another in the evening (and even then, only in one direction). The cost-benefit to the overall service is marginal at best.

So you could look at it a different way and say that if more development increases the population along the line, then it improves the business case for the massive investment that is required, so these plans are a good thing. If anything, we need even more rezonings.

The same came be said for the luas, its off peak service mon-fri is about every 8 or 10 min and from what i see its empty during these times, where as irish rail have 1 per hour off peak.

Im starting to agree with more houses more people = a bigger voice for extra services and facilities + in the future there will be more homes available for sale for your kids.

But local congestion will be much worse i think.

sowdublin

What's the new building activity going on near the bus stop at Allendale Roundabout behind Allendale Apartments? More houses/apartments is it?

fletch

sowdublin wrote: »

What's the new building activity going on near the bus stop at Allendale Roundabout behind Allendale Apartments? More houses/apartments is it?

http://planning.fingalcoco.ie/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayURL?theApnID=FW16A/0084

"Permission for a residential development consisting of the construction of 28 no. 2 bed apartments in 2 no. 3 and 4 storey buildings and including for all associated site development works, open space"

ongarboy

fletch wrote: »

http://planning.fingalcoco.ie/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayURL?theApnID=FW16A/0084

"Permission for a residential development consisting of the construction of 28 no. 2 bed apartments in 2 no. 3 and 4 storey buildings and including for all associated site development works, open space"

I see there is construction traffic going in from the site opposite the new entrance to St Josephs Hospital. I hope they build a new footpath on the east side from the Allendale roundabout to where the existing entrance to Allendale Square is. I've always hated having to cross the road once and then cross back 50 meters later if you're walking down to Clonsilla train station etc. That road and junction is far busier with cars since all the new homes went up in Hansfield.

beauf

If they ever get the quays improved for cycling it will make a big difference for D15 cyclists.
https://irishcycle.com/2019/02/24/key-dublin-cycle-route-review-delay-hitting-18-month-mark/
Personally I don't find the quays into town much of a problem. I dislike the south quays and into the park route though.

An alternative route is also being improved (down the canal)
https://irishcycle.com/2019/02/04/work-starts-on-royal-canal-greenway-beside-dublin-docklands/
This is a nice route in the summer and in day light. Its a good bit slower though just to all the gates, and road crossings.

ongarboy

I've only noticed this morning lots of new residential unit foundations (presumably apartments) being built on the long empty space near the high bridge that brings you to Carpenterstown. As it's only a stone's throw from Coolmine station, it's only right the land should be put use during a housing shortage and it looked ugly and barren for years. Of course the argument remains as to how will already packed commuter trains handle the new residents there that will wish to avail of them.

beauf

It's the Dr Troy Bridge and that development was started many years ago. But stopped when the market collapsed. Probably 20yrs or so ago.

Former Former

ongarboy wrote: »

I've only noticed this morning lots of new residential unit foundations (presumably apartments) being built on the long empty space near the high bridge that brings you to Carpenterstown. As it's only a stone's throw from Coolmine station, it's only right the land should be put use during a housing shortage and it looked ugly and barren for years. Of course the argument remains as to how will already packed commuter trains handle the new residents there that will wish to avail of them.

"Riverwood Square", it's a mix of apartments and houses, think I read somewhere it will be 120 units in total.

JupiterKid

Well I know for certain that Blanchardstown hospital is at absolute breaking point. It A&E department is totally overloaded with patients on trolleys, hard uncomfortable seats and waiting times to see a doctor of up to 18 hours...

It was rebuilt in 2002 for a population of about 150,000 and now has to struggle with a population of well over twice that in its catchment.

Dublin 15 is extremely poorly served by decent public transport. It needed a DART years ago and there was a Metro line proposed over 17 years ago but no sign of that whatsoever...

beauf

Spent 23 hrs in ER blanch last year with a elderly relative.

Phil.x

Wasted 40mins waiting in blanch cop shop for a passport stamp last year, ended up going to cabra, in and out in two minutes, completely empty.

Caranica

Phil.x wrote: »

Wasted 40mins waiting in blanch cop shop for a passport stamp last year, ended up going to cabra, in and out in two minutes, completely empty.

You can renew online now without needing a Garda. Nothing to do with congestion though. Blanch Garda Station covers a population of more than the population of Galway City, they're hugely under resourced imo but that's a whole other thread.

beauf

Only adults can renew online. New applications or Kids have to go to the station etc.

Cabra is a good tip thanks. Blanch is painful for everything.

Hurrache

beauf wrote: »

Only adults can renew online. New applications or Kids have to go to the station etc.

Cabra is a good tip thanks. Blanch is painful for everything.

Since the end of last year you could renew kids passports online. You just need to print out, sign and return the consent form but that just needs to be done by the guardians.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/passports/passports_for_children.html

Phil.x

Caranica wrote: »

You can renew online now without needing a Garda. Nothing to do with congestion though. Blanch Garda Station covers a population of more than the population of Galway City, they're hugely under resourced imo but that's a whole other thread.

Mine was an emergency passport.

ongarboy

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/residents-of-dublin-neighbourhood-dismayed-as-trees-felled-for-housing-1.3894424?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fireland%2Firish-news%2Fresidents-of-dublin-neighbourhood-dismayed-as-trees-felled-for-housing-1.3894424

Wow, sad to see one of the last semi rural areas of Clonsilla have all these trees felled near St Joseph's hospital for housing. I welcome more housing in the area to meet the chronic shortage and the fact it's a stones throw from the train station so it makes sense but it just means the area becomes more of a concrete jungle. One of the compromises of urban living I guess....

beauf

I commented before that the area is losing a lot of its green areas but was shot down.
I think a lot of people new to the area think it has a lot of green area.

They can't see the gradual switch to urban jungle.
Its not that you don't expect more housing. Its more that this can be done and retain vastly more green areas than we are doing.

sowdublin

ongarboy wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/residents-of-dublin-neighbourhood-dismayed-as-trees-felled-for-housing-1.3894424?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fireland%2Firish-news%2Fresidents-of-dublin-neighbourhood-dismayed-as-trees-felled-for-housing-1.3894424

Wow, sad to see one of the last semi rural areas of Clonsilla have all these trees felled near St Joseph's hospital for housing. I welcome more housing in the area to meet the chronic shortage and the fact it's a stones throw from the train station so it makes sense but it just means the area becomes more of a concrete jungle. One of the compromises of urban living I guess....

I drove by there yesterday and really sad state it is in. Ridiculous level of building activity going on around Clonsilla / Ongar / Hansfield area.

Nijmegen

I'd bet my bed there isn't a place in the country where people wouldn't simultaneously complain about the shocking state of the housing crisis whilst having an excuse as to why building shouldn't go on in their area.

Hurrache

Nijmegen wrote: »

I'd bet my bed there isn't a place in the country where people wouldn't simultaneously complain about the shocking state of the housing crisis whilst having an excuse as to why building shouldn't go on in their area.

The problem is that any lessons learned from planning mistakes that have been made over the decades have been thrown right out the window, particularly with the bypassing of local CoCos and straight to Bord Pleanna.

So we're back to the method of throwing houses up anywhere, without the infrastructure to support them, all in the name of a housing emergency.

Remember Adamstown was held up as how new developments should be from then on?

Your post is a perfect example then to berate people for valid concerns using the excuse as NIMBYism and the "housing emergency".

Dublin 15 in particular has been highlighted by academic studies as a problem area with concerns with the high volume of developments happening in it, which of course will be ignored because of the "housing emergency".

Nijmegen

Hurrache wrote: »

The problem is that any lessons learned from planning mistakes that have been made over the decades have been thrown right out the window, particularly with the bypassing of local CoCos and straight to Bord Pleanna.

So we're back to the method of throwing houses up anywhere, without the infrastructure to support them, all in the name of a housing emergency.

Remember Adamstown was held up as how new developments should be from then on?

Your post is a perfect example then to berate people for valid concerns using the excuse as NIMBYism and the "housing emergency".

Dublin 15 in particular has been highlighted by academic studies as a problem area with concerns with the high volume of developments happening in it, which of course will be ignored because of the "housing emergency".

Except that infrastructure to support the houses going up is much more advanced now than it was ten years ago. Lots more schools in place, better road connections, better transport links (even if some attempts to expand that are themselves facing a lot of opposition).

There is a utopian idea of what ought to be in place before developments go up, and sadly it doesn't exist anywhere. We'd be building even fewer houses today if we were waiting on it all.

Fundamentally I think a lot of people in a lot of areas becoming considerably and suddenly vexed at the state of water logging or local trees or what have you are more interested in trying to displace development out of their line of sight.

beauf

Nijmegen wrote: »

Except that infrastructure to support the houses going up is much more advanced now than it was ten years ago. Lots more schools in place, better road connections, better transport links ...

The infrastructure was for the previous expansion. Not the current one. Its at capacity as soon as its available. We now can have constant queues all over D15 at any time of the day.

Nijmegen

beauf wrote: »

The infrastructure was for the previous expansion. Not the current one. Its at capacity as soon as its available. We now can have constant queues all over D15 at any time of the day.

Ok. Find me an area where the locals believe the infrastructure / greenery / whatever the excuse is ready to take the jump from the current house building rate of 18,000 per year to match the household formation rate of 30-50,000 per year. Traffic or homelessness.

We don't live in a perfect world. But as I say, there isn't a parish in the country where it doesn't seem someone doesn't have a reason why building shouldn't happen there.

Hurrache

Nijmegen wrote: »

Except that infrastructure to support the houses going up is much more advanced now than it was ten years ago. Lots more schools in place, better road connections, better transport links (even if some attempts to expand that are themselves facing a lot of opposition).

There is a utopian idea of what ought to be in place before developments go up, and sadly it doesn't exist anywhere. We'd be building even fewer houses today if we were waiting on it all.

Completely untrue and missing the point, trying to cast it as something it's not just like I said.

beauf

Nijmegen wrote: »

Ok. Find me an area where the locals believe the infrastructure / greenery / whatever the excuse is ready to take the jump from the current house building rate of 18,000 per year to match the household formation rate of 30-50,000 per year. Traffic or homelessness.

We don't live in a perfect world. But as I say, there isn't a parish in the country where it doesn't seem someone doesn't have a reason why building shouldn't happen there.

We've net immigration of about 50k a year. We can't out build that. Even if we weren't in the middle of the worse housing crisis in the history of the state.

Still unsustainable building policy is why that exists. Infrastructure and transport is dysfunctional because of the same planning. But what's the answer. Even more dire planning.

Our excuse, like lemmings we just keep repeating the same mistakes over and over.