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Dublin 15 is going to get a lot more congested.

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    #92
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,649 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    January wrote: »
    The bridge at Cabra has worked quite well and people's houses were disturbed there. I think it'll just have to be something that happens. Same in Clonsilla.

    Cabra is nothing like Coolmine situation.

    There was already a bridge and the new bridge didn't land in the middle of a green in the middle of an estate.


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    #93
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    There wasnt already a bridge at cabra the bridge went over the canal but the level crossing still needed to be opened and closed and caused awful tailbacks


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    #94
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,649 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    lucernarian wrote: »
    I can't see how it would turn into a traffic jam, considering you're removing the main cause of the traffic jam (the level crossing). And as I implied earlier, the other roads in the area - particularly Clonsilla Road and the junctions near the fire station, would act as their own bottleneck anyway. There would be somewhat more traffic coming from Delwood I suspect (no longer going to Roselawn and Castleknock station bridge), but not enough to make a material difference.

    I still feel the objections to Coolmine crossing are myopic and misguided.

    Dr Troy bridge has continuous traffic Jam morning and evening. And it attracts new traffic into the area.

    The plan for Coolmine is to have Dr Troy 2 a few hundred meters away and it as you say already has a supply of more traffic from coolmine crossing, plus more traffic will be attracted to it. Because that's what happens.

    It ends in the middle of Riverwood removes a green and feeds right into the traffic already backed up from Dr troy. Riverwood is alreay a car park all day with commuters and already queued from the traffic using as a rat run.

    You'd be crazy to want it.


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    #95
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,649 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    January wrote: »
    There wasnt already a bridge at cabra the bridge went over the canal but the level crossing still needed to be opened and closed and caused awful tailbacks


    Er, there wasnt' a bridge but there was a bridge???

    There was a bridge and it was on a main road. The new bridge just goes over the railway as well as the canal but its still on the main road. Traffic routing didn't change, it just removed the crossing.

    They say there isn't enough room to do that at coolmine, so the plan is to make a bridge into the middle of a housing estate. Its a completely different situation.

    Why not remove coolmine crossing and porterstown and just leave the existing dr troy bridge to take the traffic. If there is no problem with traffic on dr troy then this will be no problem.

    The locals will still object to that, because it removes two shortcuts and make loads of local journeys much longer. (off peak), just won't bother at peak. But there would be far less resistance than building a major bridge on the quiet estate green, and making the estate even more congested.


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    #96
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,649 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I think the planners will overrule any local concerns. They are consistently allowing more development that brings more and more traffic into local estates. At some point they will upgrade Powerstown road, build all along it, and route the traffic through the Phoenix Park.


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    #97
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,649 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Pity they can't manage to build decent cycle lanes from D.15 to town or even the park. Or even around the area. Nothing joins up.


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    #98
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,648 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    beauf wrote: »
    Turn a quiet estate into a traffic jam 4~5 hours at day at the bottom of your garden. Who wouldn't want that.

    The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few and outweigh the needs of the one.

    Yes, there are a small number of households adversely affected by the change, but there are a huge number of households who will benefit from the shorter rail commute into the city centre and the elimination of road traffic delays at level crossings. It is always this way with progress.


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    #99
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,649 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    One of those Households will be Leo....

    It won't fix the problem it will just back up to the next bottle neck, laurel lodge, castleknock college, castleknock village, chapelizod. Etc.

    There isn't the road capacity to handle all the cars being stuffed into D.15. It just doesn't have the throughput. Never has done.


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    #100
    lucernarian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    beauf wrote: »
    One of those Households will be Leo....

    It won't fix the problem it will just back up to the next bottle neck, laurel lodge, castleknock college, castleknock village, chapelizod. Etc.

    There isn't the road capacity to handle all the cars being stuffed into D.15. It just doesn't have the throughput. Never has done.
    How are you coming to this conclusion with bottlenecks? A lot of the traffic is inherently local, with schools and the likes. Much of the traffic going through the current crossing wouldn't even be going to or from the likes of Chapelizod. The flow of traffic would also become far more regularised, without a backlog of 7 minutes' traffic being unleashed over the course of a minute or two in the direction of e.g. Castleknock College. The existing level crossing also causes inevitable conflicts with cyclists and a bunch of impatient motorists trying to squeeze past them all.

    If there's an issue with road capacity *into* D15, then that's a completely separate discussion to the level crossing replacement in the very middle of D15. The plans (drawn up by Irish Rail) are also supposed to ultimately benefit the railways and capacity/reliability on the trains, not to only benefit school runs and Christmas shoppers.


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    #101
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,649 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    lucernarian wrote: »
    H...If there's an issue with road capacity *into* D15, then that's a completely separate discussion to the level crossing replacement in the very middle of D15. .....

    This thread isn't specific about the crossing its a general discussion about congestion in D.15 in its entirety.
    Regional>East>Dublin 15>Dublin 15 is going to get a lot more congested.
    Phil.x wrote: »
    Man when will all this building in D15 stop.
    Roads, rail, bus, amenities are at breaking point and in some cases broken.

    https://consult.fingal.ie/en/consultation/barnhill-local-area-plan-2017-2023-strategic-issues-paper


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    #102
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,649 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    lucernarian wrote: »
    How are you coming to this conclusion with bottlenecks?...

    A few too many decades of experience in D.15. We've had the same issues for a very long time.

    Throughput out of D.15 to city center is actually less than it used to be. The routes into D.15 have much greater capacity, and there is vastly more housing not just in D.15 but beyond it, and it all has to come through D15.

    You can can't reduce or not change the output, and vastly increase the input without a bottleneck.


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    #103
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,649 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    lucernarian wrote: »
    ...A lot of the traffic is inherently local, with schools and the likes. Much of the traffic going through the current crossing wouldn't even be going to or from the likes of Chapelizod. ..

    Lots of local traffic. But I would say the vast majority of it is external or at least more than a KM away. Because the roads out of the area have huge volumes of traffic on them.


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    #104
    lucernarian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    beauf wrote: »
    This thread isn't specific about the crossing its a general discussion about congestion in D.15 in its entirety.
    I didn't say it was though. I said one issue (the level crossing) is separate to the wider problem of congestion in D15, and you needn't conflate the two.

    What you said about widespread congestion and it being moved from one point to another doesn't stand up well to scrutiny. The Newlands Cross overpass was a better example of this and yet I don't think anyone would deny it was a good idea to build it. The jams start at the M7 now but it was still an improvement.

    Ultimately if there was separated access to the N3 built at places like near eBay, it would help with some of the wider congestion issue. Fingal County Council were happy to go with whatever at Blanchardstown SC so long as it got them development levies...


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    #105
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,649 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Newlands Cross overpass is on a main road (6 lanes?) and not in the middle of a housing estate. I can't see why you'd confuse the two.

    https://www.google.ie/maps/place/Newlands+Cross,+Dublin/@53.3126513,-6.392413,127a,35y,75.42h,45t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x4867735b84e2b6c7:0x2600c7a7bb51f4f2!8m2!3d53.3133223!4d-6.3945564

    https://www.google.ie/maps/place/Riverwood+Green,+Carpenterstown,+Dublin/@53.3760418,-6.395956,300m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x486772b425b9dc27:0xe4c9bdf14eedfb1!8m2!3d53.374233!4d-6.3942272


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    #106
    lucernarian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    beauf wrote: »
    Newlands Cross overpass is on a main road (6 lanes?) and not in the middle of a housing estate. I can see why you'd confuse the two.

    https://www.google.ie/maps/place/Newlands+Cross,+Dublin/@53.3126513,-6.392413,127a,35y,75.42h,45t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x4867735b84e2b6c7:0x2600c7a7bb51f4f2!8m2!3d53.3133223!4d-6.3945564

    https://www.google.ie/maps/place/Riverwood+Green,+Carpenterstown,+Dublin/@53.3760418,-6.395956,300m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x486772b425b9dc27:0xe4c9bdf14eedfb1!8m2!3d53.374233!4d-6.3942272
    No need to be so sarcastic?


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    #107
    RasTa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,116 ✭✭✭✭RasTa


    Anybody from D15 should not be driving their cars into the city for work.


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    #108
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    RasTa wrote: »
    Anybody from D15 should not be driving their cars into the city for work.

    When I worked in the city centre, around the grand canal, it was quicker for me to drive than by public transport, probably still is.


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    #109
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,649 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    He means no one in Dublin should drive...

    http://tinypic.com/r/16kt1ci/9

    A lot of D15 is an 60~90 mins from a lot of Dublin City on public transport. or 30~60 mins in a car. 30~60 mins on a bicycle.

    Depends where you are going though. Mine journey is only 30 mins by train. About 20~30 mins in a car.


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    #110
    RasTa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,116 ✭✭✭✭RasTa


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    When I worked in the city centre, around the grand canal, it was quicker for me to drive than by public transport, probably still is.

    Nonsense, train to Docklands and walk across.


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    #111
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,649 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Thats only true of journeys within walking of the Docklands. Even if it takes you 10~15 to get to the station and wait for a train. 15~20 mins for the train. Then 10~15 mins walk the other side. You can drive it pretty much the same time door to door. Everywhere else involves a long bus or two or three modes of transport. Personally I get the train or bike, and even if its longer I prefer it than driving. Since driving around Dublin is miserable. Of course many people need a car for other reasons.


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    #112
    RasTa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,116 ✭✭✭✭RasTa


    beauf wrote: »
    Thats only true of journeys within walking of the Docklands. Even if it takes you 10~15 to get to the station and wait for a train. 15~20 mins for the train. Then 10~15 mins walk the other side. You can drive it pretty much the same time door to door. Everywhere else involves a long bus or two or three modes of transport. Personally I get the train or bike, and even if its longer I prefer it than driving. Since driving around Dublin is miserable. Of course many people need a car for other reasons.

    I refuse to believe that with all the traffic I've seen in the morning. Mainly due to 90% of the cars only containing 1 person inside.

    I've a motorbike and fly by them daily.


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    #113
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,649 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    You pass the people who go A-B and take ages as they don't know any other route. Because you use bus lanes.

    People driving getting into town in 30~40 mins are rat running going A-Z-B, or using the tunnel. ;)


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    #114
    RasTa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,116 ✭✭✭✭RasTa


    beauf wrote: »
    You pass the people who go A-B and take ages as they don't know any other route. Because you use bus lanes.

    People driving getting into town in 30~40 mins are rat running going A-Z-B, or using the tunnel. ;)

    Huh? Doesn't the tunnel cost and don't you have to go down the M50. Not sure what you're argument is here but it doesn't sound cheaper or quicker then public transport.


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    #115
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,649 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Cost was never mentioned. It varies depending on time also.
    Quicker depends where exactly you are going and if there is a docklands train at the time you are travelling at.

    People often leave out door to door times when commuting, especially when using train and bus. For me my door to door is twice that of journey time of the train.
    Also for me getting the 9am train is faster than the 10am train by about 30 mins. Simply because of the connections. For the car its the opposite. Bicycle it mainly depends on wind.

    Anyway its a blinkered argument that everyone doesn't need a car for work. Sometimes I going to another destination on the way, or on the way home. So I take the car, instead of getting the train or cycling.


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    #116
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    RasTa wrote: »
    Nonsense, train to Docklands and walk across.

    All of Dublin 15 is door to door on the rail line is it?

    I have over a decade (around 15 years) of doing that particular commute, the nonsense is not coming from me.


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    #117
    amtc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭amtc


    I live in d15 and do a mix of commutes into town. I often think if someone was trying to follow me they'd be mystified. I would certainly escape any private investigator! Generally I get the bus. Sometimes I get the train. Sometimes I drive and park in phibsboro. Sometimes I drive and park in town. Sometimes I get a lift from a co worker who has a space in town.

    In reality the bus or the car is the easiest. Train just too packed


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    #118
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,648 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    amtc wrote: »
    I live in d15 and do a mix of commutes into town. I often think if someone was trying to follow me they'd be mystified. I would certainly escape any private investigator! Generally I get the bus. Sometimes I get the train. Sometimes I drive and park in phibsboro. Sometimes I drive and park in town. Sometimes I get a lift from a co worker who has a space in town.

    In reality the bus or the car is the easiest. Train just too packed

    Very similar to me.

    Sometimes I have a school run and I bring the car, sometimes I just bring the car, more often I get the bus and occasionally the train. I did cycle a long time back and I had a moped for a few years.

    I find the bus the least stressful.


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    #119
    vegetables
    Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭vegetables


    blanch152 wrote: »
    I find the bus the least stressful.

    Try the 39a.

    Takes you to the city via Cavan and Longford.


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    #120
    Zaph
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 47,298 ✭✭✭✭Zaph


    The 39a is the best of the buses into town because it avoids Blanch village and just goes straight through the centre rather than in and out of it and through Coolmine Industrial Estate. The 39, on the other hand, does both and is a soul destroying experience. Thank god for the train.


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    #121
    vegetables
    Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭vegetables


    Zaph wrote: »
    The 39a is the best of the buses into town because it avoids Blanch village and just goes straight through the centre rather than in and out of it and through Coolmine Industrial Estate. The 39, on the other hand, does both and is a soul destroying experience. Thank god for the train.

    Must have mixed them up.

    One of them takes so long I grew a beard en route.


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