The trial of Molly Martens

RacoonQueen

Deleted User wrote: »

One of them could have stayed home with them. This trial could take weeks. This is the time they need stability and support, not being pawned off on other people.

Other people? Like their family?

I suspect if it was my brother that had had his head smashed in with a bat and landscaping stone and I was going to another country to attend the trial I would need my husband by my side. Imagine going through that on your own.
Ridiculous trying to align some sort of lack of care to his sister and her husband.

I'm sure the children are being well looked after, loved and cared for back home by other family members. Who'd be looking after sure if they'd been left with her? :rolleyes:

jmayo

iguana wrote: »

The bit that makes no sense to me is that Martens was an FBI agent. An FBI agent isn't a run of the mill cop. Martens probably had a law degree or some sort of medical/biology degree before ever going to Quantico. He would have gone through specialised training and then had several decades of experience as an agent. As an agent he worked for counterintelligence which means he was pretty good at his job. If he wanted to stage a murder, surely he'd have managed to do a better job of it?

Added to that, the pair are charged with second degree murder, which means intentional but not premeditated. So either the prosecution don't believe that Martens and Martens-Corbett planned the murder or they don't believe they have enough evidence to prove they planned it. Either way it makes a lot of the speculation in the Irish media look very hyperbolic as it's at odds with the actual charge the pair are being tried for. That said the articles in the US media that I have read are no more sympathetic to Martens and Martens-Corbett than the Irish media, just calmer about it.

We are unlikely to ever know what really happened but it isn't unheard of for an abusive husband to be murdered by his victim or a family member. It's also really, really common for strangulation to leave no visible marks. Being naked while attacking a spouse isn't unheard of. Attacking a spouse while her family is in the house is stupid but not unheard of. Refusing to allow her to adopt the children could have been a way to exert control. And domestic abuse victims can often appear to be controlling to people with limited insight into a relationship. On the other hand, Corbett had taken a leap of faith by moving to the US with her and it would be completely understandable if he wanted to keep guardianship of the children to himself only because if he shared it with her, he would be trapped in her country in the event of their marriage ending. If I was widowed, I think I'd be absolutely loath to let a future husband share guardianship of my son, especially if we relocated to his home country. It's also not unheard of to murder someone and claim self-defence. Corbett could have been planning to return home with the children and his wife may have murdered him in anger/in the hope of keeping the children. Really either scenario could be the truth or the truth could be somewhere in the middle.

Is it also not unheard of to contact the emergency services after one of these self defense killings and tell them that it is a heart attack they are going to attend ????

Is it also unheard of to claim that the weapon used was only bought a few days before when it was in the possession of the son for a year or so ?
Would that not would appear a crazy error to make ?

Oh and here is the big one for me.
EDIT:
was the intitial call to emergency services that there was a heart attack or was it that there was an assault ?
If it was a heart attack wouldn't it just mean that the only first responders were paramedics and not police also ?

Surely if it was self defense daddy would with all his Qauntico training not have called it in correctly ?

It took paramedics a while to realise that there were dealing with massive head trauma and not heartattack because the bedroom was so dimly lit.
And surely the father, with his undoubted training and knowledge, could have told them when they entered what had happened ?

Did all of this gave the father and daughter more time to play with until police arrived on scene.

I personally think the missus did it and daddy quickly fabricated a story to protect her.

Both of them deserve major jail time and in his case he will get quite the welcome.

Auldloon

Where did this heart attack story come from? In the 911 call there was nothing said about a heart attack the father says that he thinks he might have killed him or something like that.

ohnonotgmail

Auldloon wrote: »

Where did this heart attack story come from? In the 911 call there was nothing said about a heart attack the father says that he thinks he might have killed him or something like that.

when the 911 dispatcher was giving evidence she did mention that she instructed the pair to give him CPR. why would she do that for head trauma?

Gatling

Auldloon wrote: »

Where did this heart attack story come from? In the 911 call there was nothing said about a heart attack the father says that he thinks he might have killed him or something like that.

The paramedics who attended said that they were told it was a suspected heart attack they were attending not an assault

listermint

jmayo wrote: »

Is it also not unheard of to contact the emergency services after one of these self defense killings and tell them that it is a heart attack they are going to attend ????

Is it also unheard of to claim that the weapon used was only bought a few days before when it was in the possession of the son for a year or so ?
Would that not would appear a crazy error to make ?

Oh and here is the big one for me.
EDIT:
was the intitial call to emergency services that there was a heart attack or was it that there was an assault ?
If it was a heart attack wouldn't it just mean that the only first responders were paramedics and not police also ?

Surely if it was self defense daddy would with all his Qauntico training not have called it in correctly ?

It took paramedics a while to realise that there were dealing with massive head trauma and not heartattack because the bedroom was so dimly lit.
And surely the father, with his undoubted training and knowledge, could have told them when they entered what had happened ?

Did all of this gave the father and daughter more time to play with until police arrived on scene.

I personally think the missus did it and daddy quickly fabricated a story to protect her.

Both of them deserve major jail time and in his case he will get quite the welcome.

And Paving Slab,

You know the paving slabs you keep by the bed just to get that real patio feel in the bedroom.

Muahahaha

CeilingFly wrote: »

Interesting to see a substantial difference in teh reporting angle between the hysterical Independent who are making it this summer's major story and the local media in North Carolina.

Whilst the death was horriffic, the indo is leaving out quite a bit of information that a normal non hysterical media outlet would report in order to give a propoer balance to the coverage.

In north carolina its barely making news.

Agree with this, the Indos reporting on the trial is so completely biased that you have to go elsewhere to find middle ground.

Just the other day they had headlines screaming that Jason had sleeping pills in his system, pills that Molly had gotten from the pharmacy a few days previous which led the reader to infer that she drugged him. What the Indo left out of their report was that the pharmacist testified that Jason also had a sleeping pill prescription and he often used Mollys sleeping pills, also the post mortem reported only small traces in his blood, not enough to conk him out. But that didnt stop the Indo leading readers to believe that she drugged him, you can even see posters on this thread stating the same thing because of how the Indo reported it by deliberately leaving pertinent and important facts out of the story. Absolute gutter journalism by that paper.

Auldloon

Here's some of the 911 call.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/corbett-911-call-he-s-bleeding-all-over-and-i-may-have-killed-him-1.3169745

danganabu

It's very re-assuring to see that the premise of innocent until proven guilty is very much alive and well :rolleyes:

Kunkka

I really thought this would be a slam dunk case for prosecutors on foot of the original stuff I heard about this man's gruesome death. Now I am not so sure. Very easy to paint someone as a monster when they have no way of defending themselves. If the victim was the controlling abusive husband that they are expecting to portray him to be, why the hell would he want to move back to Ireland without the person he wanted to control... (if that is in fact true?). Does not fit the profile at all.

Kunkka

Kunkka wrote: »

If the victim was the controlling abusive husband that they are expecting to portray him to be, why the hell would he want to move back to Ireland without the person he wanted to control... (if that is in fact true?). Does not fit the profile at all.

That's an interesting point. Maybe she wasn't the doormat he thought. Maybe she stood up to him.

Or maybe he realised that he'd made a mistake and wanted to remove the children she'd been caring for for most of their lives, from her care.

jmayo

Auldloon wrote: »

Here's some of the 911 call.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/corbett-911-call-he-s-bleeding-all-over-and-i-may-have-killed-him-1.3169745

So then why were the paramedics led to believe they were attending a heart attack ?

And looking at the transcript ....

Thomas Martens: My daughter’s husband, um, my son in law, um, got in a fight with my daughter. I intervened and I think he’s in bad shape. We need help.

911 Operator: OK, what do you mean he’s in bad shape? He’s hurt?

TM: He’s bleeding all over and I may have killed him. I hit him in the head.

911: With what?

TM: With a baseball bat

911: With a baseball bat?

Was Jason Corbett still breathing when paramedics arrived and if he was why was he found to be cold a few minutes later in the ambulance ?

And surely, as others have posted about highly trained FBI agents are, mr mertens would be capable of subduing an attacker without having to bash a guys skull to bits ?

Gatling

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That's an interesting point. Maybe she wasn't the doormat he thought. Maybe she stood up to him.

Or maybe he realised that he'd made a mistake and wanted to remove the children she'd been caring for for most of their lives, from her care.

Or maybe just maybe he realised she wasn't the innocent stable person he thought she was.

Almost seems you have painted him as someone completely different as been made out

Syphonax

MarcusP12 wrote: »

latest reports says that the 2 kids were asleep in bed when the police officers arrived at the scene. They had to be woken which suggests to me that there was no commotion at the time of the incident. If he was "trying to kill her" as the defense suggests then I find it hard to believe the children would not be woken by all the screams and shouts and activity around the event. And even if they were woken, surely they would not have gone back to sleep completely oblivious of what had happened.

Guess you have never heard of Dreamy Sleepy Nighty Snoozy Snooze then?

jmayo

danganabu wrote: »

It's very re-assuring to see that the premise of innocent until proven guilty is very much alive and well :rolleyes:

Did one of either, mr mertens or his daughter, bash Jason Corbett's skull to bits ?

Here are some interesting questions :
Why was there a paving slab/brick in the bedroom ?
Was he so dangerous the baseball bat was not good enough to subdue him ?
And this was the guy that was so violent it took multiple sever hits of both a bat and concrete paving slab/brick to subdue him and yet there were not discernible injuries on either of the defendants ?

You know sometimes people actually jump to the right conclusion.

I bet you reckoned OJ was innocent as well. :rolleyes:

Riskymove

jmayo wrote: »

I bet you reckoned OJ was innocent as well. :rolleyes:

in any event ....this isn't case of who done it

AudreyHepburn

I know it's AfterHours but I find it worrying that some of the main talking points on this thread are Molly Martens looks and baseless assertions that Jason Corbett was a wife beater and thereby in some way deserved what was done to him.

Molly's looks have nothing to do with anything and should not have a bearing on her guilt or innocence.

And why is so hard to believe that Jason was anything other than a good husband and father? That's the way all the evidence is pointing after all.

If anyone comes across as dangerous and unstable it's Molly Martens.

My personal feeling is that Molly did it herself, it was murder not self defence and FBI trained Daddy is covering for her. Who better to play the justice system than a man trained by it and worked it for years.

What a horrible way to go...I hope common sense and justice prevails for Jason Corbett and his children.

fergiesfolly

I saw in a report that a neighbour had spent the afternoon gardening, as had Corbett. The two then drank 7-8 beers while watching their kids playing in the yard
The neighbour said Corbett hadn't seemed impaired and that Corbett, his wife and father-in-law were all in good spirits.
He last saw Corbett around 8pm.

Now, two things....
1: would you need any sleeping pills after that much beer?
2: 7-8 beers can quickly and drastically change a mood or state of mind( especially mixed with medication) He could've been quite jovial at 8pm, had words with his wife, it escalated, he attacked her and the father intervened.

I'm not for a second, saying the above happened.
But until all the facts are in, we could run any amount of scenarios with limited selections of evidence and come to infinite conclusions.

danganabu

jmayo wrote: »

Did one of either, mr mertens or his daughter, bash Jason Corbett's skull to bits ?

Here are some interesting questions :
Why was there a paving slab/brick in the bedroom ?
Was he so dangerous the baseball bat was not good enough to subdue him ?
And this was the guy that was so violent it took multiple sever hits of both a bat and concrete paving slab/brick to subdue him and yet there were not discernible injuries on either of the defendants ?

You know sometimes people actually jump to the right conclusion.

I bet you reckoned OJ was innocent as well. :rolleyes:

Can we remove juror number one please!

alchemist33

jmayo wrote: »

So then why were the paramedics led to believe they were attending a heart attack ?

And looking at the transcript ....



Was Jason Corbett still breathing when paramedics arrived and if he was why was he found to be cold a few minutes later in the ambulance ?

And surely, as others have posted about highly trained FBI agents are, mr mertens would be capable of subduing an attacker without having to bash a guys skull to bits ?

Arresting a bad guy in a planned operation along with your highly-trained, heavily-armed colleagues is a far cry from (allegedly) finding your daughter being strangled by her well-built husband.

Re comments on Molly Martens' looks, they of course have no bearing on the trial (and nobody is seriously saying they do), but she is a good-looking woman and someone was bound to say something. What I dislike more in these true crime threads is the scope of speculation, often based on limited information.

danganabu

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I know it's AfterHours but I find it worrying that some of the main talking points on this thread are Molly Martens looks and baseless assertions that Jason Corbett was a wife beater and thereby in some way deserved what was done to him.

Molly's looks have nothing to do with anything and should not have a bearing on her guilt or innocence.

And why is so hard to believe that Jason was anything other than a good husband and father? That's the way all the evidence is pointing after all.

If anyone comes across as dangerous and unstable it's Molly Martens.

My personal feeling is that Molly did it herself, it was murder not self defence and FBI trained Daddy is covering for her. Who better to play the justice system than a man trained by it and worked it for years.

What a horrible way to go...I hope common sense and justice prevails for Jason Corbett and his children.

Please tell me you actually see the irony in your post and it was intentional?

fergiesfolly

fergiesfolly wrote: »

I saw in a report that a neighbour had spent the afternoon gardening, as had Corbett. The two then drank 7-8 beers while watching their kids playing in the yard
The neighbour said Corbett hadn't seemed impaired and that Corbett, his wife and father-in-law were all in good spirits.
He last saw Corbett around 8pm.

Now, two things....
1: would you need any sleeping pills after that much beer?
2: 7-8 beers can quickly and drastically change a mood or state of mind( especially mixed with medication) He could've been quite jovial at 8pm, had words with his wife, it escalated, he attacked her and the father intervened.

I'm not for a second, saying the above happened.
But until all the facts are in, we could run any amount of scenarios with limited selections of evidence and come to infinite conclusions.

One report did say that a minute level of alcohol was present in his system along with a minute level of sedative.

jmayo

fergiesfolly wrote: »

I saw in a report that a neighbour had spent the afternoon gardening, as had Corbett. The two then drank 7-8 beers while watching their kids playing in the yard
The neighbour said Corbett hadn't seemed impaired and that Corbett, his wife and father-in-law were all in good spirits.
He last saw Corbett around 8pm.

Now, two things....
1: would you need any sleeping pills after that much beer?
2: 7-8 beers can quickly and drastically change a mood or state of mind( especially mixed with medication) He could've been quite jovial at 8pm, had words with his wife, it escalated, he attacked her and the father intervened.

I'm not for a second, saying the above happened.
But until all the facts are in, we could run any amount of scenarios with limited selections of evidence and come to infinite conclusions.

How can we come to infinite conclusions.

Either one or other of the mertens killed him and it was either because either out of rage or self defense.
The fact that there were no real discernible marks or injuries on the defendents, the victims head was bashed in and not alone was baseball bat used but a paving slab/brick also, the children were supposedly asleep when police arrived yet there was a violent life or death struggle nearby leads to me one conclusion.

danganabu wrote: »

Can we remove juror number one please!

It's alright I am moving onto executioner.

alchemist33 wrote: »

Arresting a bad guy in a planned operation along with your highly-trained, heavily-armed colleagues is a far cry from (allegedly) finding your daughter being strangled by her well-built husband.

Re comments on Molly Martens' looks, they of course have no bearing on the trial (and nobody is seriously saying they do), but she is a good-looking woman and someone was bound to say something. What I dislike more in these true crime threads is the scope of speculation, often based on limited information.

I dislike the speculation on purely the word of the defendants that the victim was a wife beater and would be murderer and more than a few posters have run with that groundless speculation.

RacoonQueen

fergiesfolly wrote: »

I saw in a report that a neighbour had spent the afternoon gardening, as had Corbett. The two then drank 7-8 beers while watching their kids playing in the yard
The neighbour said Corbett hadn't seemed impaired and that Corbett, his wife and father-in-law were all in good spirits.
He last saw Corbett around 8pm.

Now, two things....
1: would you need any sleeping pills after that much beer?
2: 7-8 beers can quickly and drastically change a mood or state of mind( especially mixed with medication) He could've been quite jovial at 8pm, had words with his wife, it escalated, he attacked her and the father intervened.

I'd imagine that by the time his death occured about 6 hours later he had sobered up somewhat?

Electric Sheep

Deleted User wrote: »

One report did say that a minute level of alcohol was present in his system along with a minute level of sedative.

Which is a bit odd, as the neighbor says 7-8 beers each and after that they split a 32 oz can.

Not what I would consider a minute amount of alcohol.

AudreyHepburn

danganabu wrote: »

Please tell me you actually see the irony in your post and it was intentional?

I said it was my personal feeling that Molly is the guilty one, not that it was a fact. That is for the jury to decide.

It is also my opinion, based on her using the children on her social media pages and how she seems to have coerced them into saying the father was abusive, that she is unstable and dangerous. Again it is for the jury to decide if it is fact.

But many on this thread seem to be taking as red that Jason was probably abusive. They are taking it as fact.

No irony there.

kylith

Electric Sheep wrote: »

Which is a bit odd, as the neighbor says 7-8 beers each and after that they split a 32 oz can.

Not what I would consider a minute amount of alcohol.

He was killed about 6 hours later, so a lot would have left his system.

AudreyHepburn

Electric Sheep wrote: »

Which is a bit odd, as the neighbor says 7-8 beers each and after that they split a 32 oz can.

Not what I would consider a minute amount of alcohol.

Most likely he had sobered up by the time he was murdered - the alcohol, a lot of it anyway would have left his system by then.

kylith

kylith wrote: »

He was killed about 6 hours later, so a lot would have left his system.

As would the sleeping tablet, now I think of it. And after a fair amount of booze, would he need a sleeping tablet? Could it have been administered to make sure he didnt' wake?

I'm sure the ME would be able to work out How much of what had been taken based on what remained in his system.

danganabu

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Most likely he had sobered up by the time he was murdered - the alcohol, a lot of it anyway would have left his system by then.

So you have decided he was murdered but you can't understand why anyone would take the opinion that he was a wife beater because they dont have all the facts