The trial of Molly Martens

Avatar MIA

On one hand how could an FBI agent botch it up so badly.

On the other hand if it was self defence why no defence wounds.

It looks like the wife went ballistic and the father is trying to cover up as best he could.

Gatling

Avatar MIA wrote: »

On one hand how could an FBI agent botch it up so badly.

On the other hand if it was self defence why no defence wounds.

Apparently his speciality is conter intelligence ,
A couple of things don't add up ,
First is the ambulance crew saying they were told they were attending a cardiac arrest ,
Suspects supposedly administered 600 chest compressions during CPR but looked fresh and not panicked ,she called out the individual chest compressions loud and clearly heard by the operator like she wanted to be heard supposedly doing it ,
The paramedics on scene noticed blood was congealed and jelly like ,and the room had no light on except an upturned lamp but also noticed blood every where but no reports of blood on either suspect ,
Cool to the touch body Vs warm person ,

Id expect if someone had their head caved in with either a bat or rock the person doing the attacking would have some blood on them

Paddy Cow

Auldloon wrote: »

Here's some of the 911 call.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/corbett-911-call-he-s-bleeding-all-over-and-i-may-have-killed-him-1.3169745

Police in America are now starting to analyse 911 calls. Innocent people tend to focus on the victim and give information on their wounds, breathing etc. Guilty people tend to try and get their story across before anyone arrives. In this call Martens is already laying the foundation that Jason was abusive and threatening to kill Molly. What they did to Jason is almost an afterthought. His first mention of Jason was that he got in a fight with Molly, not that he was lying in a bloody heap on the floor.

There was another case in America where a man found another man raping his 5yr old daughter and he beat him to a pulp. When he came to his senses he called 911 and was asking how to save the guy. Him and his family gave the rapist CPR until the paramedics arrived but it was too late. The case went before a grand jury but they didn't indict him and his 911 call played a large part in this.

Paddy Cow

danganabu wrote: »

And that's fine, indeed a perfectly reasonable conclusion, but surely you accept that it is also perfectly reasonable for someone to believe her story,no?

If she was Irish and he was American I wonder would the media here, and many on here, be so quick as to assume her guilt??

Do you actually believe her story and if so why? Her story has so many holes in it that it's more reasonable not to believe it. Why are you so sure she's innocent? I'm really curious as to whether you believe her or you're just playing devil's advocate for the sake of it.

According to Molly and her father, this is what happened:

Jason got up in the middle of the night and had an argument with Molly that ended up with him threatening to kill her. Her father heard the commotion and when he entered the room a naked Jason was strangling her. In self defence, somehow Molly/her father managed to get hold of a paving slab and a baseball bat and beat him until he was dead. Then the father calls 911 and proceeds to tell them that it was all Jason's fault.

There are many problems with this:

1 Why if Jason was strangling Molly why were two weapons used? Did the father use the bat and then the paving slab??

2 Who actually used what weapon? We don't know (yet as far as I'm aware) if the father has admitted to using both

3 Why didn't the father just hit Jason enough times with the bat to free Molly and then call the police? Then they could file assault charges against him. Instead they hit him enough times that he needed the morgue.

Can you really not see why people don't accept their version of events as reasonable? If you can't, I'd be questioning your suitability as a juror.

bear1

Unless James was a zombie I can't see any reason to bash his skull in with a bat.
Surely if he was abusive one smack with the hand and a kick out the door would have been enough?

pickarooney

kylith wrote: »

He was killed about 6 hours later, so a lot would have left his system.

If 8 pints left your system in 6 hours the morning checkpoints would do no business.

Avatar MIA

pickarooney wrote: »

If 8 pints left your system in 6 hours the morning checkpoints would do no business.

I don't think Americans drink pints when sitting out on their deck chairs. probably bottles. A bottle is approximate to a unit.

Avatar MIA

Gatling wrote: »

Apparently his speciality is conter intelligence ,

Still, he would have had basic training similar to all agents, would require to be fairly intelligent, and have general common sense. Even we can see plainly how wrong this looks. So, if premeditated... it doesn't make sense.

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe their version of events. It's that part that confuses me.

Minderbinder

Reading through this thread just shows how difficult it can be to prosecute even the most seemingly obvious cases.

I mean how can they prove conclusively whether the father or daughter did it? Even a confession can be twisted around to the possibility of him defending his daughter. As a jury member it must be difficult to have no doubt. Even though you know one of them did it, you don't know which one.

Auldloon

Avatar MIA wrote: »

She appears to give out her telephone number and email address in one of the pics, like it's a PR release.

It's on loads of the pics. I'd say it's in hope the children will see it and contact her.
I also suspect the dad will take the rap for her leaving her free to pursue gaurdianship of the kids through the courts later.

marklazarcovic

The whole making her neck seem like it had been grappled with and having to be told multiple times to stop by law enforcement says to me that their story is bogus,no doubt fabricated by the father as something plausible that would 'fly' with the police.

Then you have at least 10 blows to the BACK of Jason's head,with two objects, to me..one blow to the back of his head is self defense if he's strangling your daughter.. get him down,ring cops..

he would not have his back turned to you after one blow if he remained concious ,he would have turned around.. no frontal blows to the head, (daughter could have picked up the slab and hit him when he turned to her father) no marks or wounds to either Molly or the father which means Jason did not strike either of them.

All the blows were to the back of his head..none to arms or torso which of course means he was unconscious,facing down, getting bludgeoned.


Regardless of if he was a wife abuser (nothing to prove he was) it's murder,not manslaughter or 2nd degree murder.over 10 blows to the back of the head with two separate items is a frenzy kill,overkill.

In the states cases like these are nearly always about money.

Avatar MIA

Auldloon wrote: »

I also suspect the dad will take the rap for her leaving her free to pursue gaurdianship of the kids through the courts later.

Possibly, and she may be unhinged enough to try, but there is zero chance the kids will be going back to her in America. The legal/extradition process alone would take so long the kids would be comfortably over 18 before it became an issue.

fergiesfolly

The paving stone is the one bit I cannot get my head around.
There has to be a dozen other objects that one can use, before that enters your thinking ( on the basis that wasn't already in the room).
Its heavy, cumbersome. You would imagine it would take some strength to hit someone with bit more than oncecor twice.

Water John

The number of blows, the two assault objects and no defence wounds. Hard to defend that credibly.
Problems, can you determine, which one or both were actively involved. Is the second guilty of, obstruction of justice?
Sorry to reference another crime but the Oscar Pistorious case was simpler, with one one left alive in the room.

pickarooney

pickarooney wrote: »

If 8 pints left your system in 6 hours the morning checkpoints would do no business.

They started drinking at 3.30. They may have been drinking bottles which would only be roughly half a pint.

Gatling

marklazarcovic wrote: »

All the blows were to the back of his head..none to arms or torso which of course means he was unconscious,facing down, getting bludgeoned.

Not true ,it's been repeatedly reported he had injuries to his face and extremities ,
His nose was broken and one of his eyes was swollen badly and bleeding ,

Avatar MIA

Gatling wrote: »

Not true ,it's been repeatedly reported he had injuries to his face and extremities ,
His nose was broken and one of his eyes was swollen badly and bleeding ,

That could happen (I would think) to his face if he was hit from behind and he was lying on a hard surface, definitely broken nose and eye damage is plausible. Although, swollen needs time, and the person would need to be alive.

end of the road

Auldloon wrote: »

It's on loads of the pics. I'd say it's in hope the children will see it and contact her.
I also suspect the dad will take the rap for her leaving her free to pursue gaurdianship of the kids through the courts later.

she won't succeed in getting the children as they are irish citizens and not US citizens. the court in the US decided they had no reason to remain within the US and correctly deported them back to ireland where they will be staying. the irish courts won't agree to sending irish children to the US to be with step parents and the US court wouldn't allow it either.

Water John

Correct EOTR, that issue is decided and over.

marklazarcovic

Gatling wrote: »

Not true ,it's been repeatedly reported he had injuries to his face and extremities ,
His nose was broken and one of his eyes was swollen badly and bleeding ,

As was said,if you were face down on the ground getting hit in the back of the head with a baseball bat it could certainly explain a broken nose and swollen eye socket

Gatling

marklazarcovic wrote: »

As was said,if you were face down on the ground getting hit in the back of the head with a baseball bat it could certainly explain a broken nose and swollen eye socket

To me it make me think he took direct blows to the face especially the description given of his face by paramedics

Seth Brundle

marklazarcovic wrote: »

As was said,if you were face down on the ground getting hit in the back of the head with a baseball bat it could certainly explain a broken nose and swollen eye socket

But if he was face down getting hit on the back if his head, even after he's dead, at what point does the accused turn him over to give CPR?

Ken.

Mod-For fück sake don't link to her facebook page.

marklazarcovic

kbannon wrote: »

But if he was face down getting hit on the back if his head, even after he's dead, at what point does the accused turn him over to give CPR?

never

Donnachain1

Such a brutal killing. I am following the trial on twitter there are several journalists in there. The best one for the most updates is Ben Coley.

I remember listening to the 911 call and thinking there is no way they are doing CPR.

I also wondered how both children were still sleeping while this went on yet the father "heard" them argue from the basement.

I read online that maybe the father tried to cover up for the daughter after she hit Jason with the paving stone. IMO she is a bit of a nut. has anyone read the story from her ex boyfriend.

The physical evidence will start today at 2.30pm Irish time.

Naula Galvin and Michael Hewlett are 2 others who are tweeting.

Paddy Cow

Donnachain1 wrote: »

Such a brutal killing. I am following the trial on twitter there are several journalists in there. The best one for the most updates is Ben Coley.

I remember listening to the 911 call and thinking there is no way they are doing CPR.

I also wondered how both children were still sleeping while this went on yet the father "heard" them argue from the basement.

I read online that maybe the father tried to cover up for the daughter after she hit Jason with the paving stone. IMO she is a bit of a nut. has anyone read the story from her ex boyfriend.

The physical evidence will start today at 2.30pm Irish time.

Naula Galvin and Michael Hewlett are 2 others who are tweeting.

That sounds plausible and is the most reasonable scenario I've read so far.

Auldloon

Donnachain1 wrote: »

Such a brutal killing. I am following the trial on twitter there are several journalists in there. The best one for the most updates is Ben Coley.

I remember listening to the 911 call and thinking there is no way they are doing CPR.

I also wondered how both children were still sleeping while this went on yet the father "heard" them argue from the basement.

I read online that maybe the father tried to cover up for the daughter after she hit Jason with the paving stone. IMO she is a bit of a nut. has anyone read the story from her ex boyfriend.

The physical evidence will start today at 2.30pm Irish time.

Naula Galvin and Michael Hewlett are 2 others who are tweeting.

Any link to the ex's story pls?

RacoonQueen

Fairly interesting that there is very little mention of Molly's mother, other than the fact she was there at the time. Nothing about how she did or did not hear the fight or what she may have seen.
Any pictures / stories to show that she is supporting her husband and daughter?

Donnachain1

I think there might be an actual book on amazon

here is a sample chapter. https: // www. facebook. com /BringJackandSarahHome/posts/363482627319151

https: // www. facebook.com /pg/ BringJackandSarahHome/posts/?ref=page_internal hope these links work. I got them from Bring Justice to Jason - on facebook there is a search box on the link if you type in Keith Maginn it will bring up all the links for you. There are actually articles from the newspaper. (must have been the one I read)

Ben from twitter mentioned today that spouses cant be forced to testify against their partners in court in the USA not sure about testifying against their children though.

I agree Paddy I think it is the most plausible as well surprised I never thought of it before I seen it online.

it wont let me post the links properly because I'm a newbie. crazy!! I had to put spaces in between some of the links.

take everything

If found guilty this woman deserves a long sentence.
Shocking what was done to that man.