The trial of Molly Martens

blackwhite

It all comes back to DAs being an elected position in most US States, including North Carolina.
Every election, the two things they point to are conviction percentage, and the costs of the DA office.

They've already gone through a trial with all the costs that come with it, and have subsequently taken a bloody nose in the appeals. This way the DA gets to point to this case as ultimately resulting in a conviction, and can claim that he avoided another costly trial that the county would have to pay for.

There's no local victims who might create some bad publicity for him, so they get cast aside much more readily than an American family would have been.

golfball37

I wish everyone giving out about this would focus their ire on our own justice system. In Ireland these 2 would be due for release next year without any appeal or retrial. Plenty of victims at home suffering like the Corbetts who we ignore time and time again.
I’d take the American justice system over our rotten corrupt one any day of week

Fakediamond

golfball37 wrote: »

I wish everyone giving out about this would focus their ire on our own justice system. In Ireland these 2 would be due for release next year without any appeal or retrial. Plenty of victims at home suffering like the Corbetts who we ignore time and time again.
I’d take the American justice system over our rotten corrupt one any day of week

If they were convicted of murder here, they’d serve on average around 20 years jail time before being paroled.

seamus

The excluded evidence that the Corbetts are hoping to rely on is an appeal to American hypocritical puritanism and plain old racism.

In short, their goal is paint Jason as a "drinker". Thus, the jury will assume he is a typical Irishman, always drunk, always shouting and beating his wife, and therefore any bullsh1t Martens tells them about being an abused wife will be automatically believed.

Thus they may get off scott free. Of course it's absurd, but that's the American system. It's very common for lawyers to try and appeal to the jurys' biases rather than sway them on facts.

The DA knows this too.

walshb

Fakediamond wrote: »

If they were convicted of murder here, they’d serve on average around 20 years jail time before being paroled.

Average time for lifer is 18 years I think

Still disgustingly lenient..

Manslaughter...not sure, but much less than 18 years...

Martens guilty of 2nd degree murder? which is like manslaughter here!!

J Mysterio

The DA is a disgrace. How this can be downgraded to manslaughter is just beyond me. **** the American justice system, it's absolutely rotten to the core.

seamus

walshb wrote: »

Martens guilty of 2nd degree murder? which is like manslaughter here!!

The definitions don't exactly line up, because manslaughter isn't really a thing in the US. It's usually different degrees of murder.

2nd-degree murder in the US could be either murder or voluntary manslaughter over here.

It depends on how well the defence argues that the killing was a spur of the moment act and while there was an intention to injure the victim during the act, there was no intention before the act to cause serious harm. If that's the case, then it could be voluntary manslaughter. Otherwise, murder.

For example, if the prosecution could demonstrate that the killer hated the victim and had previously expressed a desire to hurt them, then while they may have lashed out in the spur of the moment and accidentally killed the person, you would say their anger/hatred was a factor and that it was murder.

In the US that distinction wouldn't be made, it would be murder 2 either way.

I read the transcripts of this case at the time with interest. I can't see this wasn't anything other than premeditated murder.

Lillyfae

Deleted User wrote: »

I read the transcripts of this case at the time with interest. I can't see this wasn't anything other than premeditated murder.

Neither could the jury at the time.

It's an horrific miscarriage of justice that this appeal was even entertained. My heart goes out to Jason's beautiful family, I can't imagine what they must be going through. I hope that there is an eventual unlawful death suit, and a trip to the cleaners for the Martens.

forumdedum

While the FBI scumbag probably won't be involved next time this loon who is attractive will meet a new man and murder him too. No doubt about it. Hopefully she will serve at least another few years for that one.

America is so messed up. Naturally God help Jason's family. Shocking though not surprised because of FBI connection.

banie01

The offer of a plea deal when the prosecutorial team at the original trial felt that Murder 1 was certainly achievable with the evidence to hand, is galling.

The prosecutors went for murder 2 out of an abundance of caution in placing blonde and FBI "hero" on trial.
To think that a plea deal may see them out with barely 5 and half years served is an injustice but still...
Far more justice than was ever likely in the US system.

Muahahaha

Deleted User wrote: »

Hobson’s choice-a solid conviction for unlawful killing with a relatively small additional sentence/time served or a potential not guilty of murder verdict in the next trial?

While I berated the DA in a previous post, no matter how we feel about the case, he knows the details better than most- I do feel this has become a less important case for him, that he has other priorities, that he has limited resources to devote to it- and that’s terribly sad- but I also feel in any retrial the reasonable doubt will be much stronger than it was in the previous trial, Jason’s name will be dragged through the dirt once more, every trick in the book will be used to sully his good name- I don’t think that will be justice either.

I wouldnt agree having seen Jasons sisters statement and the reasons why the Supreme Court of North Carolina order a retrial

"The detectives provided ample evidence for the District Attorney to successfully prosecute Molly and Tom Martens for second degree murder in 2017."

"A jury unanimously convicted both. When the Supreme Court of North Carolina voted by a four to three majority to grant a retrial last month, they did so for two principal reasons."

"One reason was a technicality relating to blood found on the inside hem of Tom Marten’s boxer shorts, blood which showed Tom Martens had been standing over Jason beating him with a baseball bat from a height of less than two feet while Jason was on the ground.

Though the other blood spatters on Tom Marten’s boxer shorts had been tested and confirmed as blood at the North Carolina State Laboratory the blood samples inside the hem had not been."

"On this basis, the Supreme Court said the blood spatter expert’s testimony should be set aside. The evidence still sits in police evidence bags, and would only require a retesting of those blood samples to allow this evidence to be used in a retrial. It is inexplicable to our family that District Attorney Garry Frank has chosen not to do this and not to proceed with a retrial."

"The second reason the Supreme Court majority set aside the unanimous verdict of the trial jury was because of statements made by Jason’s two children - then aged ten and eight - to social workers in interviews which took place immediately after a funeral service for their father - a funeral service Molly Martens banned Jason’s own family from attending."

"Jason’s two children, now aged 16 and 14, travelled to North Carolina this week and spent days giving statements to detectives outlining how they were terrified when giving those statements to social workers because Molly Martens had perpetrated years of abuse of the children."

"The children told detectives how they had been coached and intimidated by Molly Martens into lying to the social workers. They had been compelled to lie and claim that they had witnessed domestic abuse in the house."

"The children were coached from the night of the murder in what to say when asked. The children recanted those statements once they returned to Ireland and were safe."

"This week they detailed for Davidson County detectives the long history of child abuse perpetrated against them by Molly Martens. The children also detailed for detectives how they saw key items of evidence - such as Jason’s phone and two of his computers - in Molly’s family’s possession in the days after the murder.

"These items were never found, as they would have proved that Jason was planning to return home to Ireland with the children. They would also have proved that Jason's life assurance policy was changed a year before his death to make Molly the sole beneficiary.

"The simple truth is Molly Martens killed Jason Corbett to get his children. Today the District Attorney for Davidson County has let her and her father get away with murder.”

The two issues identified by the Supreme Court are-
1) Some blood spatters on the hem of Tom Martens boxers were not tested while others were and confirmed as blood. Because all the dots of blood were not tested any evidence related to this had to be thrown out. However the boxers are in an evidence bag and can be retested for a retrial. This would be a heavy mark against Tom Martens because the blood spatter expert already testified that the spots indicated Jason was being struck while lying on the ground and the blood spattered upwards towards Tom Marten standing over him

2) The kids interviews with social workers after Jasons murder. Even if this were to be introduced in a fresh trial they are claiming that they were coached by Molly, they were 8 and 10 at the time. But discounting that whatever the kids said to the social workers doesnt change any of the facts of the case. The Martens are claiming self defence, they said Jason was stranguling Molly by the neck when Tom walked into the bedroom with a baseball bat and struck Jason with it. However we know from the testimony of the ambulance workers that Molly had no marks on her neck desptite her telling them Jason was trying to strangle her. Also she was seen by police officers at the station after her arrest constantly rubbing her neck trying to make a mark on it, a police officer even asked her about this and testified about doing so in the trial.

I think if there were a retrial that another guilty verdict would be achieved. It would regularise the blood spatter evidence which is damning for Tom Marten as it shows him standing over Jason lying on the ground and hitting him with such force that his blood spattered upwards as high as his boxer shorts. And then regardless of what the children said to the social workers it doesnt change the material facts of the case of how Jason Corbett actually died in the bedroom. From the first trial we know it was never anything to do with self defense by the Martens and we know the first blow struck on Jason was when he was lying fast asleep in bed. So the Martens self defense story has already been rubbished once and a jury accepted that unanimously. There is no reason why the DA could not win the case a second time out.

But as the poster blackwhite said these DA are elected officials. Murder trials lasting several weeks are not cheap and in the US they have to be paid for out of peoples local taxes. The DA could easily be looking towards his next election contest and thinking if he spends a million quid on a second trial that no local wants anyway its not going to win him any votes. Corbett isnt American and has no support locally whereas the Martens do. In a perverse kind of way the DA is incentivised politically to offer them a plea deal. Putting them back on trial again could lose him votes at the next election, giving them a plea deal and letting them walk could gain him votes among their supporters.

I wonder if they don’t accept the plea deal, might there be a chance that a retrial won’t happen anyway?

It’s obvious the DA doesn’t have the appetite to go there again no matter what the reasons are- that places the Martens in a strong negotiation position arguing for time served and no more jail time and I believe they’ll get that.

The people that matter, know Molly Martens is a murdering twisted psycho and her father not much better than that- money and position talks in American society and there’s little we can do about that- given Tom Martens is ex FBI, who knows what quiet words and deals have been done behind the scenes to avoid further negative publicity to that police force.

Considering the lies the Martens family have written on social media for the last few years, If a retrial went ahead, I think it would be devastating for the long term good name and memory of Jason Corbett - and a second time round trial is always precarious because given human nature, the jury will have that Supreme Court overturned verdict on their minds- it doesn’t matter about the “overwhelming” evidence; reasonable doubt is a distinct possibility this time around- Given the dirty tricks likely to be played by the defence I don’t see anything past an unlawful killing verdict being issued by a future jury.

RacoonQueen

The kids thing is awkward, based on what I've read about Molly and my bias because Jason is Irish, 100% believe that the kids were manipulated into the statements they gave in the days after his death and that she could have been consistently been manipulating them into believing he was doing things he wasn't etc

On the other, easily believable his sister etc have unwittingly been doing similar in their grief, anger and frustration.

Anyway, they're stone cold guilty no matter what the children say.

Muahahaha

Deleted User wrote: »

I wonder if they don’t accept the plea deal, might there be a chance that a retrial won’t happen anyway?

It’s obvious the DA doesn’t have the appetite to go there again no matter what the reasons are- that places the Martens in a strong negotiation position arguing for time served and no more jail time and I believe they’ll get that.

Isnt that the problem here, the DA is after giving them (two people he successfully convicted of murder) all their Christmasses and birthdays in one swoop. He is giving them the option of whether or not there is a retrial and their decision will be based on how many more years they would have to serve. Jasons sister who met with this DA was told it could be as little as one more year if they take the plea deal. So the DA has just handed two convicted murderers all the power in this scenario, like where else would you see that. Whats worse is he has shown his hand in negotiations by offering this option so as you said they now arrive to the table with a strong hand knowing what way he wants this to go, i.e. no retrial.

Theres a maxim in law that "justice not only must be done but it must also be seen to be done". The DA not going for a retrial is a complete shirking of his responsibilities. Even if they were to be found not guilty on the retrial justice would still be seen to be done. But by not allowing it to proceed at all based on whatever decision two convicted murderers plump for in a plea deal ensures that justice is not seen to be done. Instead what he has done is taken what little power the family of the victims had in this process and handed it over lock stock and barrel to the two perpetrators of the crime. He is literally allowing them to decide their own future with zero regard for the victims in all of this. Its wrong on so many levels.

ohnonotgmail

Has there been any mention of jasons children bringing a civil suit against his murderers?

banie01

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Has there been any mention of jasons children bringing a civil suit against his murderers?

Was filed around the time of the criminal trial iirc.
Settled too as far as this link says.
https://extra.ie/2019/03/26/news/irish-news/wrongful-death-lawsuit-jason-corbett

Muahahaha

Muahahaha wrote: »

Isnt that the problem here, the DA is after giving them (two people he successfully convicted of murder) all their Christmasses and birthdays in one swoop. He is giving them the option of whether or not there is a retrial and their decision will be based on how many more years they would have to serve. Jasons sister who met with this DA was told it could be as little as one more year if they take the plea deal. So the DA has just handed two convicted murderers all the power in this scenario, like where else would you see that. Whats worse is he has shown his hand in negotiations by offering this option so as you said they now arrive to the table with a strong hand knowing what way he wants this to go, i.e. no retrial.

Theres a maxim in law that "justice not only must be done but it must also be seen to be done". The DA not going for a retrial is a complete shirking of his responsibilities. Even if they were to be found not guilty on the retrial justice would still be seen to be done. But by not allowing it to proceed at all based on whatever decision two convicted murderers plump for in a plea deal ensures that justice is not seen to be done. Instead what he has done is taken what little power the family of the victims had in this process and handed it over lock stock and barrel to the two perpetrators of the crime. He is literally allowing them to decide their own future with zero regard for the victims in all of this. Its wrong on so many levels.

I don’t disagree with any of what you’re saying - even had the DA given a appearance of willingness to proceed with a retrial just to pressure the Martens into taking a “decent” spell of time behind bars via a plea bargain , he may have achieved like a 7 or 8 year sentence - it’s as if he doesn’t even have the will to put on a poker face for a few weeks- then again I don’t know how NC justice rolls and this sort of thing could be happening daily- North Carolina apparently has a 67% conviction rate for court trials, according to wiki at least - with lawyers it’s numbers and dollars- justice is way down the priority list

10000maniacs

I don't know what anybody was surprised about.
White FBI American family vs Irishman.
You can do just about anything with the American justice system if you have the "right" credentials.

10000maniacs

Meanwhile in Missouri, there was a black man serving a fifty to life and already served 21 years.
What did he do to deserve this you may ask. Murder? No! Sexual crimes? No! Selling weed? Yes!
Louisiana has 429 prisoners serving life sentences for nonviolent crimes, the highest number of any state; 91 percent of them are black.

The Great

10000maniacs wrote: »

Meanwhile in Missouri, there was a black man serving a fifty to life and already served 21 years.
What did he do to deserve this you may ask. Murder? No! Sexual crimes? No! Selling weed? Yes!
Louisiana has 429 prisoners serving life sentences for nonviolent crimes, the highest number of any state; 91 percent of them are black.

What has that got to do with the topic? The only reason why the bizarre Martens particular crime and court case has any interest to most of us is because it involves an Irish Citizen

10000maniacs

The Great wrote: »

What has that got to do with the topic? The only reason why the bizarre Martens particular crime and court case has any interest to most of us is because it involves an Irish Citizen

Just to show the general quality of justice that can be dished out in the Land Of the Free if you are not of a particular ethnicity.

The Great

10000maniacs wrote: »

Just to show the general quality of justice that can be dished out in the Land Of the Free if you are not of a particular ethnicity.

YAWN

You got evidence that this guy is doing life simply for pushing a few ounces of weed ? How many convictions did he have prior to it ?

Didn't white guy , Jeff Mizanskey, get sentenced to life imprisonment without parole for selling weed and spent 20 years in jail before winning his legal case ?

We already know that the justice system in various States in the US is a joke, where staying out of jail means having the funds to hire a top class lawyer. eg OJ Simpson Trial or Wacko Jacko getting off scot free some claims of kiddie fiddling

NSAman

10000maniacs wrote: »

I don't know what anybody was surprised about.
White FBI American family vs Irishman.
You can do just about anything with the American justice system if you have the "right" credentials.

True, the cement block was just resting in a bedroom and the baseball bat was for a game later that day.

Mrsmum

NSAman wrote: »

True, the cement block was just resting in a bedroom and the baseball bat was for a game later that day.

The brick just happening to be on the bedside locker is some story imo. I've done more than my fair share of crafts with kids and never once did I end up with said brick beside my bed in anticipation of some craftwork and I doubt anyone else ever did either. No ring if truth to it at all. Was she asked what the exact detailed innocent plan for the brick was before it was used as a weapon ?

NSAman

Mrsmum wrote: »

The brick just happening to be on the bedside locker is some story imo. I've done more than my fair share of crafts with kids and never once did I end up with said brick beside my bed in anticipation of some craftwork and I doubt anyone else ever did either. No ring if truth to it at all. Was she asked what the exact detailed innocent plan for the brick was before it was used as a weapon ?

It's all bull.

The only reason this man and his daughter are getting an easy ride is because of his connections.

I do not care how bad their marriage was, murder of one partner is NEVER the answer.

US "justice" is a misnomer. I have experienced it!

10000maniacs

The Great wrote: »

YAWN

You got evidence that this guy is doing life simply for pushing a few ounces of weed ? How many convictions did he have prior to it ?

Didn't white guy , Jeff Mizanskey, get sentenced to life imprisonment without parole for selling weed and spent 20 years in jail before winning his legal case ?

We already know that the justice system in various States in the US is a joke, where staying out of jail means having the funds to hire a top class lawyer. eg OJ Simpson Trial or Wacko Jacko getting off scot free some claims of kiddie fiddling

Yawn back at you.
https://www.candoclemency.com/michael-meeko-thompson-goes-viral-thanks-tana-ganevas-intercept-article/
Anybody who walks into an American courtroom and is not the right ethnicity and expects justice does not necessarily get it and might get life for something relatively trivial.
And conversely, a white person who is in law enforcement, preferably high up in law enforcement with a few extra brownie points for being ex-FBI, can expect mountains to be overturned to get him out of that jail cell.

Lillyfae

A petition has been started:
https://www.change.org/p/davidson-county-district-attorney-retrial-for-molly-and-tom-martens?redirect=false

ohnonotgmail

banie01 wrote: »

Was filed around the time of the criminal trial iirc.
Settled too as far as this link says.
https://extra.ie/2019/03/26/news/irish-news/wrongful-death-lawsuit-jason-corbett

only 160,000 for killing their father. jesus.

Str8outtaWuhan

10000maniacs wrote: »

Meanwhile in Missouri, there was a black man serving a fifty to life and already served 21 years.
What did he do to deserve this you may ask. Murder? No! Sexual crimes? No! Selling weed? Yes!
Louisiana has 429 prisoners serving life sentences for nonviolent crimes, the highest number of any state; 91 percent of them are black.

john gilligan was done for selling weed, whats your point?