The trial of Molly Martens

timfinnegan

timfinnegan wrote: »

I copied and pasted the relevant paragraph from the Irish Times. It does suggest that a plea bargain is being offered. I'd be amazed if the Martens turned it down and terribly disappointed in the DA if it were offered.

Rte , 36 mins ago- definitely retrial- Irish independent mentions plea deal “collapsed” - no further information on that was provided so not sure if DA did a U turn or Tom and Molly turned it down.
https://www.rte.ie/news/us/2021/0406/1208254-martens-conviction-latest/

ArmaniJeanss

Even if the plea deal agreement has collapsed it doesn't mean there'll be a retrial.
Most likely it just means that the negotiations on the terms of the plea deal will continue - it's a bit like a business deal really between the lawyers.

Quite possibly a money thing - the prison term might not be the issue so much as the percentage of state costs the DA is looking to recoup from the Martens.

Unfortunately I think it's inevitable that they'll reach an agreement a few months before the retrial date.

irishguy1983

Many, many articles about these folks but can’t really find any explaining how they are out....Can anyone explain how they got out? Like have they proven they are innocent or something? What happened here in simple terms?

irishguy1983

irishguy1983 wrote: »

Many, many articles about these folks but can’t really find any explaining how they are out....Can anyone explain how they got out? Like have they proven they are innocent or something? What happened here in simple terms?

North Carolina Supreme Court overturned conviction based on certain evidence not taken into account. It was then reported Tom and Molly were going to be offered a plea bargain for unlawful killing rather than new trail for murder 2.
However its now reported this plea bargain collapsed- no reason given- so they’re out on bail awaiting new murder 2 trail in late 2022
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/pictured-killers-molly-and-tom-martens-walk-free-after-getting-bail-but-face-full-retrial-for-murder-of-irishman-jason-corbett-40286061.html

RacoonQueen

They were originally seeking retrial based on jury misconduct, I don't know if that was one of the reasons the retrial was accepted though or whether it was just on the basis of evidence not used in the original trial.

PokeHerKing

irishguy1983 wrote: »

Many, many articles about these folks but can’t really find any explaining how they are out....Can anyone explain how they got out? Like have they proven they are innocent or something? What happened here in simple terms?

They're out because they're white, they're wealthy and the father is a well connected former federal agent. Everything else is just poperaei to hide the stink.

Lillyfae

RacoonQueen wrote: »

They were originally seeking retrial based on jury misconduct, I don't know if that was one of the reasons the retrial was accepted though or whether it was just on the basis of evidence not used in the original trial.

I find the reports a bit confusing. Is the deal definitely off the table? Was there even a deal? Were they bailed? Are they home free now until the retrial?

jmayo

Flimsy_Boat wrote: »

All the Corbetts have to do, for once, is to delay proceedings that Martens brings against them to gain custody until the kids are 18. That's only 2-3 years away.

She never got to adopt them, they are not her kin.

Muahahaha wrote: »

What a load of sh1te, this DA has zero intention of there being a retrial because he is offering for their sentence to be reduced from 20 odd years down to 6, like who wouldnt take that deal? Even if you were an innocent man convicted of murder you would still take that deal thinking all your birthdays and Christmasses have come at once. The deal is so good that the DA knows they will grab it with both hands so he gets to avoid a retrial. Its a quid pro quo between both parties.

The DA in his statement is basically admitting that because there is a back log of murder cases he wants to get this one off his books. The Corbett family will now take a legal case against the leniency of the plea deal, hopefully the DAs own words on his desperation to get this case off his books will be used against him in evidence.

This is the weird thing in the US.
I watched a program the other night about a murder (can't rememebr the exact state) but the local DA refused to take case even though police pushed and pushed.
The DA thought they might not win so didn't want to a loss on their stats.

A new DA later took the case and got a conviction.
Remember a lot of DAs over there are politicians looking for the next step up the ladder.

PokeHerKing wrote: »

They're out because they're white, they're wealthy and the father is a well connected former federal agent. Everything else is just poperaei to hide the stink.

I do admit this is definitely at play.

Jason Corbett was a foreigner, even though Irish, still a foreigner.
And daddy was a good old boy that served his country.

blackwhite

martingriff wrote: »

If they think they have a great defense and not seen as killers. If the "want to clear the books" was seen as a valid reason to sue someone then all DA's would be sued as up and down the country as that is the reason it is done. To get a quick conviction and to save money

The Corbett's weren't planning to sue the DA - there's specific North Carolina legislation relating to Plea Bargains that allows the victims, or family of victims, to request the equivalent of a judicial review of the deal if it appears to be unduly lenient. That's the legal challenge that had been referred to.

blackwhite

irishguy1983 wrote: »

Many, many articles about these folks but can’t really find any explaining how they are out....Can anyone explain how they got out? Like have they proven they are innocent or something? What happened here in simple terms?

They appealed that they weren't given a fair trial, due to certain evidence being refused by the trial judge. Very tenuous argument, but it just about passed the State Supreme Court.

Once the appeal was successful and their original convictions overturned they are viewed as innocent under the law until a new conviction is secured.

Their legal status is back to the same as it was before their original trial - suspects/defendants who have been charged with a crime but with ultimate guilt still to be determined.

Potatoeman

jmayo wrote: »

I do admit this is definitely at play.

Jason Corbett was a foreigner, even though Irish, still a foreigner.
And daddy was a good old boy that served his country.

Nothing to do with skin colour. It’s the fact he’s law enforcement and knows the legal system. Do people really think if it was a black former cop this would be different?

PokeHerKing

Potatoeman wrote: »

Nothing to do with skin colour. It’s the fact he’s law enforcement and knows the legal system. Do people really think if it was a black former cop this would be different?

Yes. But I agree to an extent, top of the food chain in American justice is influence, then money and then race. But race always plays a role regardless of the first two criteria.

Gatling

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/pictured-killers-molly-and-tom-martens-walk-free-after-getting-bail-but-face-full-retrial-for-murder-of-irishman-jason-corbett-40286061.html

By the sounds of it there legal team are planning to attack the kids the first chance they get in court ,I'd say they want the original statements taken on the day of Jason's funeral to be admissible in an attempt to avoid them making any impact

Gatling

Gatling wrote: »

By the sounds of it there legal team are planning to attack the kids the first chance they get in court ,I'd say they want the original statements taken on the day of Jason's funeral to be admissible in an attempt to avoid them making any impact

Wouldn’t the balance of the scales for that evidence be the prosecution submitting the kids testimony today- then it’s up to the jury which might set aside both as they can’t decide what version is correct?

I think the crux of all the evidence actually rests with them leaving Jason to die before contacting medical services and their pathetic pretend attempts of resuscitation while on the phone-that for me is the murder 2 aspect- if the jury concentrate on that, all the spurious self defence arguments actually just disappear into the mist as they don’t matter- I wonder will we hear from previous jurors as to what influenced their decision making?

Muahahaha

jmayo wrote: »

This is the weird thing in the US.
I watched a program the other night about a murder (can't rememebr the exact state) but the local DA refused to take case even though police pushed and pushed.
The DA thought they might not win so didn't want to a loss on their stats.

A new DA later took the case and got a conviction.
Remember a lot of DAs over there are politicians looking for the next step up the ladder.

Yeah and the DA here is a politician, this is the list of public officials who ran for election in North Carolina in 2018 and you can see the district attorney Garry Frank listed there as a Republican who ran for district attorney unopposed in the 33rd District (Davidson County).

District Attorney terms are typically four years long so he is likely up for re-election again in February next year.
http://votedavidsoncountync.com/2018_General_Candidates.html

Its a mad system in some ways but in other ways it gives a lot more accountability and transparency than our own system. Here people wouldnt even be able to name a single person working for the DPP, they are anonymous. Whereas there they have to stand for re-election every few years, people know who they are and vote going by their record.

RacoonQueen

Deleted User wrote: »

Wouldn’t the balance of the scales for that evidence be the prosecution submitting the kids testimony today- then it’s up to the jury which might set aside both as they can’t decide what version is correct?

Yeah, I really don't see what use the evidence from the kids is. When with Molly's family it was supporting her claims, when with their own/Jason's family it goes against Molly. In both situations their statements are potentially (likely) to be influenced by adults.
Would imagine it will all be presented and then disregarded maybe.

irishguy1983

[Deleted User] wrote: »

North Carolina Supreme Court overturned conviction based on certain evidence not taken into account. It was then reported Tom and Molly were going to be offered a plea bargain for unlawful killing rather than new trail for murder 2.
However its now reported this plea bargain collapsed- no reason given- so they’re out on bail awaiting new murder 2 trail in late 2022
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/pictured-killers-molly-and-tom-martens-walk-free-after-getting-bail-but-face-full-retrial-for-murder-of-irishman-jason-corbett-40286061.html

So they were found guilty in court and then presumably some appointed court officials turned over decision....Is this unusual would anyone know? Seems quite suspect even though I don’t have all the details...

Patrick2010

irishguy1983 wrote: »

So they were found guilty in court and then presumably some appointed court officials turned over decision....Is this unusual would anyone know? Seems quite suspect even though I don’t have all the details...

Maybe try googling the case to get the details?

RacoonQueen

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Yeah, I really don't see what use the evidence from the kids is. When with Molly's family it was supporting her claims, when with their own/Jason's family it goes against Molly. In both situations their statements are potentially (likely) to be influenced by adults.
Would imagine it will all be presented and then disregarded maybe.

Seems about right, anyway it appears this case won't even get started for another 18 months so both sides have plenty time to prepare.
Regardless, after several years in prison the pair are waking up at home and relatively free this morning, so I'd say they have a fairly smart legal team if they can keep hold of them.

blackwhite

irishguy1983 wrote: »

So they were found guilty in court and then presumably some appointed court officials turned over decision....Is this unusual would anyone know? Seems quite suspect even though I don’t have all the details...

Every developed judicial system in the world has an appeals process.


It was overturn by the North Carolina State Supreme Court. All the judges are elected, and face reelection every 8 years.

ohnonotgmail

irishguy1983 wrote: »

So they were found guilty in court and then presumably some appointed court officials turned over decision....Is this unusual would anyone know? Seems quite suspect even though I don’t have all the details...

a judge overturned the original verdict. it is not unusual.

ohnonotgmail

Deleted User wrote: »

Wouldn’t the balance of the scales for that evidence be the prosecution submitting the kids testimony today- then it’s up to the jury which might set aside both as they can’t decide what version is correct?

I think the crux of all the evidence actually rests with them leaving Jason to die before contacting medical services and their pathetic pretend attempts of resuscitation while on the phone-that for me is the murder 2 aspect- if the jury concentrate on that, all the spurious self defence arguments actually just disappear into the mist as they don’t matter- I wonder will we hear from previous jurors as to what influenced their decision making?

The defence introducing the kids statements as evidence is taking a big risk. If the kids get on the stand and state the opposite the jury may be swayed by the story of young kids who had their father murdered.

RacoonQueen

Very risky from the defence, Sarah has repeatedly commented recently on Molly being an abuser, if the two of them want to stand up to say this in court, not going to be good for the defence I wouldn't think. Can't see cross examination of under 18's being allowed either to get deeper into it all, will be probably just one statement from then and another contradictory one from now?

https://www.facebook.com/EminentOrphan/posts/907803173112512

martingriff

irishguy1983 wrote: »

So they were found guilty in court and then presumably some appointed court officials turned over decision....Is this unusual would anyone know? Seems quite suspect even though I don’t have all the details...

They went to an appeals court who listened to there case. The appoint court official would be a judge who would listen to the appeal and the decide. We have an appeals court process. I would suspect all democratic countries would have a court process. How else do you think people who are convicted wrong are freed. It is integral so that court cases are run in a proper legal manner

ohnonotgmail

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Very risky from the defence, Sarah has repeatedly commented recently on Molly being an abuser, if the two of them want to stand up to say this in court, not going to be good for the defence I wouldn't think. Can't see cross examination of under 18's being allowed either to get deeper into it all, will be probably just one statement from then and another contradictory one from now?

https://www.facebook.com/EminentOrphan/posts/907803173112512

no prohibition on direct or cross examination of a minor.

One of the few things that boards.ie is good for is measuring the interest and reaction to a topic from the general population, not the mainstream media.
Surprised to see this thread sinking down the pages here.

ohnonotgmail

Deleted User wrote: »

One of the few things that boards.ie is good for is measuring the interest and reaction to a topic from the general population, not the mainstream media.
Surprised to see this thread sinking down the pages here.

the thread was very active while events were ongoing.

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the thread was very active while events were ongoing.

And if the Martens stay the hell away from social media and TV/magazine interviews until the new trial it will be even quieter which is no harm at all - but I reckon they need to raise funds and also try and influence a future jury and since they have previously given interviews they may go that route again.

In addition expect any number of articles over the coming weeks/months like the Elle magazine as Martens are currently classed as “innocent” which gives newspapers licence to do all sorts of favourable write ups and sob story angles in cooperation with the Martens family

RacoonQueen

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Very risky from the defence, Sarah has repeatedly commented recently on Molly being an abuser, if the two of them want to stand up to say this in court, not going to be good for the defence I wouldn't think. Can't see cross examination of under 18's being allowed either to get deeper into it all, will be probably just one statement from then and another contradictory one from now?

https://www.facebook.com/EminentOrphan/posts/907803173112512

I find it a bit sad that they now have their aunts name tagged on to their own.

Lillyfae

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I find it a bit sad that they now have their aunts name tagged on to their own.

Are you serious? Their mother died in absolutely tragic circumstances so long ago that they won’t even remember her. Their father was brutally murdered in a place far from home and they were at the mercy of his killers until their aunt came to find them, fight for them, and bring them home to the rest of their family. They have lived as her and her husband’s own children for 8+ years. Have a bit of respect.