Eir's Limited Unlimited Broadband

Muttly

I've just been told the unlimited broadband I'm paying for is actually limited, is this right? If so what kind of notification do you give if someone is approaching the limit on the unlimited broadband? And what penalties are there for exceeding the limit on your unlimited broadband?

eir: Adam

Muttly wrote: »

I've just been told the unlimited broadband I'm paying for is actually limited, is this right? If so what kind of notification do you give if someone is approaching the limit on the unlimited broadband? And what penalties are there for exceeding the limit on your unlimited broadband?

Hi Muttly,

Thanks for getting in touch. There is a fair usage policy on our unlimited broadband service. You can view more on this here: https://www.eir.ie/opencms/export/.content/pdf/terms/Part3.1.pdf

If you use more thaan 1TB of broadband per month, you will be charged €2.50 for every n10GB that you exceed this limit by with a maximum additional charge of €100. I'm afraid we wouldn't notify you if you are about to exceed this limit, however, if you register your details on my eir you will be able to monitor your usage. You can register for my eir on the below link:

https://my.eir.ie/register

- Adam

Muttly

You do realise that is blatant false advertising?

Your "monitoring" tool is completely useless as it tracks calendar month not billing month.

eir: Adam

Muttly wrote: »

You do realise that is blatant false advertising?

Your "monitoring" tool is completely useless as it tracks calendar month not billing month.

I'm afraid the onus would be on the customer to read the terms and conditions of their plan prior to signing up. I do apologise for any inconvenience caused by this.

You would need to monitor your usage on my eir by getting checking your usage on the billing date up to the next billing date.

- Aedam

spiritof1963

Surely placing a 'Fair Usage Policy' within terms and conditions while advertising 'Unlimited Broadband' is misleading at best. 

Highlighting the 'small print' to a customer after the fact is just not good enough - especially when EIR Vision is delivered via EIR broadband and contributes to the broadband usage.

Johnboy1951

spiritof1963 wrote: »

Surely placing a 'Fair Usage Policy' within terms and conditions while advertising 'Unlimited Broadband' is misleading at best. 

Highlighting the 'small print' to a customer after the fact is just not good enough - especially when EIR Vision is delivered via EIR broadband and contributes to the broadband usage.

Not as I understand it.
The TV service from eir does not contribute to the data count from what I have read.
Maybe this has changed?

spiritof1963

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

spiritof1963 wrote: »

Surely placing a 'Fair Usage Policy' within terms and conditions while advertising 'Unlimited Broadband' is misleading at best. 

Highlighting the 'small print' to a customer after the fact is just not good enough - especially when EIR Vision is delivered via EIR broadband and contributes to the broadband usage.

Not as I understand it.
The TV service from eir does not contribute to the data count from what I have read.
Maybe this has changed?

I raised this very question with EIR and they informed me that the TV service is delivered via their broadband service and counts towards the broadband usage. 

However, they did also say that it does not contribute much, which is strange - especially if you are using multi-room with HD channels along with channel recording. 

I would like this clarified by EIR as normally 1 hour of HD streamed video would use about 2 GB of data. This would be quite considerable additional usage over a 1 month period.

eir: Adam

spiritof1963 wrote: »

Surely placing a 'Fair Usage Policy' within terms and conditions while advertising 'Unlimited Broadband' is misleading at best. 

Highlighting the 'small print' to a customer after the fact is just not good enough - especially when EIR Vision is delivered via EIR broadband and contributes to the broadband usage.

I'm afraid that the fair usage police is valid and I do apologise for any inconvenience caused by this.

Your eir Vision usage will not affect your broadband usage so you don't have to worry about that.

- Adam

Muttly

I'm afraid that the package is still sold as unlimited. Please be aware I have raised this with the ASAI and I intend to pursue as far as possible.

I will also be moving to another provider as soon as possible. Usage caps are fine when advertised, if I had known about it when being sold I would have either a) gone with another provider of which there are many at better prices that do not have a usage cap, b) monitored my usage to make sure I didn't breach the hidden limit.

Unlimited is unlimited is unlimited unless you're air at which point unlimited is actually 1TB.

I would say this is unfair but it really just is typical of Eir to mislead customers.

Muttly

And to make matters worse, I know why my usage is so high. Its because the "Guest" wifi was enabled and my neighbours were using my broadband to stream Netflix all day every day. Seems that they were using a family members login to the service so they didn't have to get their own broadband and then as they don't work sat at home using all of my allowance without my permission.

eir: Adam

Muttly wrote: »

And to make matters worse, I know why my usage is so high. Its because the "Guest" wifi was enabled and my neighbours were using my broadband to stream Netflix all day every day. Seems that they were using a family members login to the service so they didn't have to get their own broadband and then as they don't work sat at home using all of my allowance without my permission.

I am really sorry to hear that you're thinking of changing providers due to this issue.

I would recommend contacting our technical support team on 1890260260 or free phone 1901 and putting a new password on your WiFi to ensure that your neighbours can't do this anymore.

- Adam

Board.surf

Muttly wrote: »

You do realise that is blatant false advertising?

Your "monitoring" tool is completely useless as it tracks calendar month not billing month.

I'm in no way defending eir as we all know they are a joke, but this is absolutely normal with every ISP. That includes the 3 I used in the US and I've tried them all in Ireland. Three are the worse. All you can eat with three = 30 gb. 

To use 1TB of data you'd have to be doing more than netflix 24/7. I use about 300 gb a month maximum with spotify or netflix on constantly and sometimes on 2 devices. You don't really have anywhere to go either unfortunately. The line can only take so much use and fair usage policies are to stop one person using all the bandwidth. They all use the same lines, so will all have the same fair usage policy.

spiritof1963

Board.surf wrote: »

Muttly wrote: »

You do realise that is blatant false advertising?

Your "monitoring" tool is completely useless as it tracks calendar month not billing month.

I'm in no way defending eir as we all know they are a joke, but this is absolutely normal with every ISP. That includes the 3 I used in the US and I've tried them all in Ireland. Three are the worse. All you can eat with three = 30 gb. 

To use 1TB of data you'd have to be doing more than netflix 24/7. I use about 300 gb a month maximum with spotify or netflix on constantly and sometimes on 2 devices. You don't really have anywhere to go either unfortunately. The line can only take so much use and fair usage policies are to stop one person using all the bandwidth. They all use the same lines, so will all have the same fair usage policy.

I agree, 1 TB of data usage is more than adequate for most people, but unfortunately I have four data hungry kids, who play online games, watch youtube and stream video (via netflix etc.).

My point is that if I was aware of EIR's 1TB 'limit' I would not have signed up with them in the first place. I am now faced with excessive, unsustainable bills, and they want to charge me an exit fee of 300 euro for what they perceive as a breach of contract.

I am aware that other ISPs and mobile broadband suppliers have 'fair usage policies', but this should not be the case. The publicised term 'unlimited broadband' should only mean 'unlimited broadband' and not have hidden terms and conditions.

I too, am raising this issue with ASAI. 

Board.surf

spiritof1963 wrote: »

I agree, 1 TB of data usage is more than adequate for most people, but unfortunately I have four data hungry kids, who play online games, watch youtube and stream video (via netflix etc.).

My point is that if I was aware of EIR's 1TB 'limit' I would not have signed up with them in the first place. I am now faced with excessive, unsustainable bills, and they want to charge me an exit fee of 300 euro for what they perceive as a breach of contract.

I am aware that other ISPs and mobile broadband suppliers have 'fair usage policies', but this should not be the case. The publicised term 'unlimited broadband' should only mean 'unlimited broadband' and not have hidden terms and conditions.

I too, am raising this issue with ASAI. 

Again, in fairness, you can't expect them to state in the ad that you need to secure your router. This is a given. This would be akin to me complaining about Ford stating 35 mpg. I topped up my tank, my neighbor has been stealing my car at night, and I am not getting the promised mileage on the petrol I put into the vehicle. 

The other issue is the kids using the net. Online gaming uses a minuscule amount of data. Tiny! Youtube and netflix are heavy but again, you'd have to be using 330+ hours of netflix content a month to go beyond 1 TB. That's more than 10 hours a day, every day of the month. I've even factored in a lot of wriggle room for other uses. And that is High definition video, not standard. There are hundreds of fixes you can apply on your end, but it's totally unfair to think that your entire neighborhood, who share your line, should suffer with slower net, so you and your kids can have special privileges and sap even more bandwidth. If there were no fair usage limits, people would be reckless with their broadband, leaving things playing when not needed, downloading nonsense constantly and just being reckless. Then nobody would have fast internet and the lines would be overloaded constantly. 

Options include:
1. Turn your netflix account down to standard definition. This uses much less bandwidth.
2. You can make an agreement with your provider at a cost, to have a larger limit. 


All in all, this is the reason ISPs can't concentrate on what matters. Like upgrading the lines. Your issue and attitude are similar to those who litter the beaches and use the excuse of no bins. The limit is massive. Totally reasonable. The ball is in your court to fix your bad habits and live within the reasonable limits provided in the terms and conditions that would have been stated in the advertisement. You don't have a leg to stand on. Morally, legally or otherwise. 

If you claim you would not have signed up with eir in the first place, even though there is no alternative, then you would have chosen to have no broadband at all. Thus, the options here are, learn to use the broadband that you have effectively, or don't have broadband.

andersat2

had same problem with Vodafone "unlimited" fiber broadband. 
they have as well 1TB limit on "unlimited" broadband
was lucky to find this out in cool off period, so cancelled straight away

spiritof1963

Board.surf wrote: »

Again, in fairness, you can't expect them to state in the ad that you need to secure your router. This is a given. This would be akin to me complaining about Ford stating 35 mpg. I topped up my tank, my neighbor has been stealing my car at night, and I am not getting the promised mileage on the petrol I put into the vehicle. 

The other issue is the kids using the net. Online gaming uses a minuscule amount of data. Tiny! Youtube and netflix are heavy but again, you'd have to be using 330+ hours of netflix content a month to go beyond 1 TB. That's more than 10 hours a day, every day of the month. I've even factored in a lot of wriggle room for other uses. And that is High definition video, not standard. There are hundreds of fixes you can apply on your end, but it's totally unfair to think that your entire neighborhood, who share your line, should suffer with slower net, so you and your kids can have special privileges and sap even more bandwidth. If there were no fair usage limits, people would be reckless with their broadband, leaving things playing when not needed, downloading nonsense constantly and just being reckless. Then nobody would have fast internet and the lines would be overloaded constantly. 

Options include:
1. Turn your netflix account down to standard definition. This uses much less bandwidth.
2. You can make an agreement with your provider at a cost, to have a larger limit. 


All in all, this is the reason ISPs can't concentrate on what matters. Like upgrading the lines. Your issue and attitude are similar to those who litter the beaches and use the excuse of no bins. The limit is massive. Totally reasonable. The ball is in your court to fix your bad habits and live within the reasonable limits provided in the terms and conditions that would have been stated in the advertisement. You don't have a leg to stand on. Morally, legally or otherwise. 

If you claim you would not have signed up with eir in the first place, even though there is no alternative, then you would have chosen to have no broadband at all. Thus, the options here are, learn to use the broadband that you have effectively, or don't have broadband.

Board Surf, you are confusing the two issues here... the op had a problem with the unsecured router, not me.

With regards to my household's data usage, I am now with another provider who actually supply 'unlimited' broadband, so I don't 'claim' I would not have signed with eir, I would not have signed with eir.

Online gaming does not use 'minuscule' amounts of data, it uses quite a lot, especially with regards to how the content is delivered.

With regards to my attitude (complaining about misleading marketing), you have me lost - not sure what littering beaches has to do with broadband usage.

Your suggestion that we should limit our 'unlimited' broadband usage is ridiculous, furthermore, the terms and conditions are not stated in the advertising - that is my whole point.

meep

Out of curiosity, where are people rejecting 1TB fair usage policies going to get their truly limitless broadband?

Board.surf

spiritof1963 wrote: »

With regards to my household's data usage, I am now with another provider who actually supply 'unlimited' broadband, so I don't 'claim' I would not have signed with eir, I would not have signed with eir.

Online gaming does not use 'minuscule' amounts of data, it uses quite a lot, especially with regards to how the content is delivered.

With regards to my attitude (complaining about misleading marketing), you have me lost - not sure what littering beaches has to do with broadband usage.

Your suggestion that we should limit our 'unlimited' broadband usage is ridiculous, furthermore, the terms and conditions are not stated in the advertising - that is my whole point.

What company are you getting truly unlimited broadband with no logical fair usage policy? I am genuinely intrigued. All advertisements state that terms and conditions apply. Littering beaches due to no bin being available, is due to people not willing to bring their rubbish home. They are not willing to take responsibility for their own issues and are not willing to be reasonable and make small changes to be just that. Anyone who uses over 1TB of data is well within the same logic. Unless of course they are running a business or servers through their internet.

Again, we will all suffer with slower broadband, if there is no fair usage policy. Thus the word fair. 

spiritof1963

Board.surf wrote: »

spiritof1963 wrote: »

With regards to my household's data usage, I am now with another provider who actually supply 'unlimited' broadband, so I don't 'claim' I would not have signed with eir, I would not have signed with eir.

Online gaming does not use 'minuscule' amounts of data, it uses quite a lot, especially with regards to how the content is delivered.

With regards to my attitude (complaining about misleading marketing), you have me lost - not sure what littering beaches has to do with broadband usage.

Your suggestion that we should limit our 'unlimited' broadband usage is ridiculous, furthermore, the terms and conditions are not stated in the advertising - that is my whole point.

What company are you getting truly unlimited broadband with no logical fair usage policy? I am genuinely intrigued. All advertisements state that terms and conditions apply. Littering beaches due to no bin being available, is due to people not willing to bring their rubbish home. They are not willing to take responsibility for their own issues and are not willing to be reasonable and make small changes to be just that. Anyone who uses over 1TB of data is well within the same logic. Unless of course they are running a business or servers through their internet.

Again, we will all suffer with slower broadband, if there is no fair usage policy. Thus the word fair. 

I think we'll leave the beach littering for another thread....

It's not about fair usage - it's about transparency... 

In fairness, all ISPs should publicise their fup where it can be clearly visible to prospective customers, and not bury it within the terms and conditions.

Virgin Media are 'limitless', and I also believe SKY have no limit, but I cannot confirm this as I have never subscribed to sky broadband. 

spiritof1963

meep wrote: »

Out of curiosity, where are people rejecting 1TB fair usage policies going to get their truly limitless broadband?

Virgin media and I also believe SKY, but cannot confirm this as I have never used SKY broadband

Muttly

To clear up some points here my router was most certainly secured by me. I've worked in IT for years and I know what I'm at. HOWEVER EIR turned on their guest network on all routers. I had disabled it but they turned it on again without my knowledge (they have remote access to all Eir modems). This is supposed to be only available to existing customers which you would expect that if a neighbour had their own account they wouldn't use someone elses however the neighbour I'm referring to had use of the system through a family members registered account.

If you're not familiar with this basically it means that anyone anywhere can pull up outside someones house and use the eir guest network. So I could go from Cork to Donegal and pull up outside Joe Soap's house and use his eir brodband to do whatever I want and it will go on to his usage.

As has been said by others, had I known about the 1tb limit I would have gone with Sky who have no limit. The main reason I went with Eir (who were more expensive) was to get Eir Sports for NASCAR. With the cost Eir are trying to put on me I could have gone with Sky and paid for Eir sports and still saved well over €100 a month.

Also someone using more than the "fair" amount slowing everyone down is a complete crock. Everyone being online from 7pm to 10pm slows everyone down. Not someone using more than 1tb of data spread out through out 24 hours. Think of it this way, say "you" (you meaning any person in general) use 10gb a day from 7pm-10pm (3 hours, 3.33gb per hour) like most people and then I use 40gb a day from 8am to midnight. I'm actually using less than "you" (16 hours 2.5gb per hour). "Fair usage" is not fair and hiding t&c's behind "unlimited usage" in an obscure document that is not easily accessible through the website is downright unfair, misleading and false advertising.

As for the argument about beach's, that is so far off the point its not even remotely relevant.

eir: Adam

Muttly wrote: »

To clear up some points here my router was most certainly secured by me. I've worked in IT for years and I know what I'm at. HOWEVER EIR turned on their guest network on all routers. I had disabled it but they turned it on again without my knowledge (they have remote access to all Eir modems). This is supposed to be only available to existing customers which you would expect that if a neighbour had their own account they wouldn't use someone elses however the neighbour I'm referring to had use of the system through a family members registered account.

If you're not familiar with this basically it means that anyone anywhere can pull up outside someones house and use the eir guest network. So I could go from Cork to Donegal and pull up outside Joe Soap's house and use his eir brodband to do whatever I want and it will go on to his usage.

As has been said by others, had I known about the 1tb limit I would have gone with Sky who have no limit. The main reason I went with Eir (who were more expensive) was to get Eir Sports for NASCAR. With the cost Eir are trying to put on me I could have gone with Sky and paid for Eir sports and still saved well over €100 a month.

Also someone using more than the "fair" amount slowing everyone down is a complete crock. Everyone being online from 7pm to 10pm slows everyone down. Not someone using more than 1tb of data spread out through out 24 hours. Think of it this way, say "you" (you meaning any person in general) use 10gb a day from 7pm-10pm (3 hours, 3.33gb per hour) like most people and then I use 40gb a day from 8am to midnight. I'm actually using less than "you" (16 hours 2.5gb per hour). "Fair usage" is not fair and hiding t&c's behind "unlimited usage" in an obscure document that is not easily accessible through the website is downright unfair, misleading and false advertising.

As for the argument about beach's, that is so far off the point its not even remotely relevant.

Hi,

If someone connects to your Wifi using this service, it won't affect your usage.

You can view more on this here: https://www.eir.ie/eirwifi/

- Adam

Muttly

eir: Adam wrote: »

Muttly wrote: »

To clear up some points here my router was most certainly secured by me. I've worked in IT for years and I know what I'm at. HOWEVER EIR turned on their guest network on all routers. I had disabled it but they turned it on again without my knowledge (they have remote access to all Eir modems). This is supposed to be only available to existing customers which you would expect that if a neighbour had their own account they wouldn't use someone elses however the neighbour I'm referring to had use of the system through a family members registered account.

If you're not familiar with this basically it means that anyone anywhere can pull up outside someones house and use the eir guest network. So I could go from Cork to Donegal and pull up outside Joe Soap's house and use his eir brodband to do whatever I want and it will go on to his usage.

As has been said by others, had I known about the 1tb limit I would have gone with Sky who have no limit. The main reason I went with Eir (who were more expensive) was to get Eir Sports for NASCAR. With the cost Eir are trying to put on me I could have gone with Sky and paid for Eir sports and still saved well over €100 a month.

Also someone using more than the "fair" amount slowing everyone down is a complete crock. Everyone being online from 7pm to 10pm slows everyone down. Not someone using more than 1tb of data spread out through out 24 hours. Think of it this way, say "you" (you meaning any person in general) use 10gb a day from 7pm-10pm (3 hours, 3.33gb per hour) like most people and then I use 40gb a day from 8am to midnight. I'm actually using less than "you" (16 hours 2.5gb per hour). "Fair usage" is not fair and hiding t&c's behind "unlimited usage" in an obscure document that is not easily accessible through the website is downright unfair, misleading and false advertising.

As for the argument about beach's, that is so far off the point its not even remotely relevant.

Hi,

If someone connects to your Wifi using this service, it won't affect your usage.

You can view more on this here: https://www.eir.ie/eirwifi/

- Adam

That's not what I was told on the phone to your support. Its also not what shows on your data usage site. I (or anyone that lives in my house) was not even in the country when a lot of this data was used.

eir: Adam

Muttly wrote: »

eir: Adam wrote: »

Muttly wrote: »

To clear up some points here my router was most certainly secured by me. I've worked in IT for years and I know what I'm at. HOWEVER EIR turned on their guest network on all routers. I had disabled it but they turned it on again without my knowledge (they have remote access to all Eir modems). This is supposed to be only available to existing customers which you would expect that if a neighbour had their own account they wouldn't use someone elses however the neighbour I'm referring to had use of the system through a family members registered account.

If you're not familiar with this basically it means that anyone anywhere can pull up outside someones house and use the eir guest network. So I could go from Cork to Donegal and pull up outside Joe Soap's house and use his eir brodband to do whatever I want and it will go on to his usage.

As has been said by others, had I known about the 1tb limit I would have gone with Sky who have no limit. The main reason I went with Eir (who were more expensive) was to get Eir Sports for NASCAR. With the cost Eir are trying to put on me I could have gone with Sky and paid for Eir sports and still saved well over €100 a month.

Also someone using more than the "fair" amount slowing everyone down is a complete crock. Everyone being online from 7pm to 10pm slows everyone down. Not someone using more than 1tb of data spread out through out 24 hours. Think of it this way, say "you" (you meaning any person in general) use 10gb a day from 7pm-10pm (3 hours, 3.33gb per hour) like most people and then I use 40gb a day from 8am to midnight. I'm actually using less than "you" (16 hours 2.5gb per hour). "Fair usage" is not fair and hiding t&c's behind "unlimited usage" in an obscure document that is not easily accessible through the website is downright unfair, misleading and false advertising.

As for the argument about beach's, that is so far off the point its not even remotely relevant.

Hi,

If someone connects to your Wifi using this service, it won't affect your usage.

You can view more on this here: https://www.eir.ie/eirwifi/

- Adam

That's not what I was told on the phone to your support. Its also not what shows on your data usage site. I (or anyone that lives in my house) was not even in the country when a lot of this data was used.

I do apologise for that, however, the usage is only calculated as it's being used so, if you were charged for this, the charges would be correct I'm afraid.

- Adam