EV Grants?

chewed

I'm reading through some of the excellent threads in this forum, but I'm still confused about the Grant system for EV cars and whether it still exists.

Is there still a grant for EVs? And is this only for new cars purchased?
And is there a grant still available for free Electrical point for the house?

I'm seriously considering moving to EV, but would need to know the up front costs and grants available to me so I can consider my budget.

KCross

3 things....

1) Grant to buy new of €5k
2) VRT exemption upto €5k
3) Free home charge point is only given when you buy a new EV from an SIMI registered dealer.

1 & 2 are usually already allowed for when you see the price on the dealers website (i.e. they have it already deducted and the price on their website is what you pay (except whatever haggling you can do).

Soarer

The VRT exemption is available on an imported car too.

So if you bring in a car up to a value of €35714, you'll pay no VRT.
If you bring in a car worth more than that, say a Tesla worth €50k, you'll pay 14% VRT on the difference ie. 14% of €14286 = €2000.

chewed

KCross wrote: »

3 things....

1) Grant to buy new of €5k
2) VRT exemption upto €5k
3) Free home charge point is only given when you buy a new EV from an SIMI registered dealer.

1 & 2 are usually already allowed for when you see the price on the dealers website (i.e. they have it already deducted and the price on their website is what you pay (except whatever haggling you can do).

OK thanks. So the free home charge point installation is only offered on brand new cars?

KCross

chewed wrote: »

OK thanks. So the free home charge point installation is only offered on brand new cars?

Yes and it was initially capped at 2000 units which they are almost at... however they have said they will continue to provide them for the rest of the year, I believe.... but, yes, only if you buy new.

If you buy s/h allow about €600 to buy and install one.

If you buy a 32A version (vs 16A) and you also have an electric shower you would need to also install a priority switch so that both cannot run together and thus blow a house fuse. A priority switch would add another €150-€200 I'd say.

No priority switch required if you just buy a 16A charge point... the difference is that 32A charges twice as fast as a 16A IF you have a car that can take the extra current... the Leaf can come with 3.3kW(16A) or 6.6kW(32A) charger. The 6.6kW version Leaf is harder to find as its an extra €900 when new.

chewed

KCross wrote: »

Yes and it was initially capped at 2000 units which they are almost at... however they have said they will continue to provide them for the rest of the year, I believe.... but, yes, only if you buy new.

If you buy s/h allow about €600 to buy and install one.

If you buy a 32A version (vs 16A) and you also have an electric shower you would need to also install a priority switch so that both cannot run together and thus blow a house fuse. A priority switch would add another €150-€200 I'd say.

No priority switch required if you just buy a 16A charge point... the difference is that 32A charges twice as fast as a 16A IF you have a car that can take the extra current... the Leaf can come with 3.3kW(16A) or 6.6kW(32A) charger. The 6.6kW version Leaf is harder to find as its an extra €900 when new.

Thanks KCross for the excellent info! I'm starting to follow this forum closely as I'm very keen to buy an EV, but need to weigh up everything first.

Would I be right in assuming that most EV drivers on this forum are driving a Nissan Leaf? There doesn't appear to be much of a choice in cars right now.

DesperateDan

Kcross if an electric shower and a 32A charger can trip a fuse box does that mean it's nigh on impossible to home charge 2-3 cars in a normal house in Ireland simultaneously? Envisaging things in 5-10 years that sounds like a deal breaker.

cros13

chewed wrote: »

Thanks KCross for the excellent info! I'm starting to follow this forum closely as I'm very keen to buy an EV, but need to weigh up everything first.

Would I be right in assuming that most EV drivers on this forum are driving a Nissan Leaf? There doesn't appear to be much of a choice in cars right now.

I have a BMW i3 and a Leaf (my second). In my extended family there are Tesla Model S, Hyundai Ioniqs and VW e-Golfs as well.

There's a lot more choice than people think at first glance, though not all are sold by Irish dealers, so UK/Jap imports can widen your choices a bit. With the notable exception of Toyota most brands have an EV.

DesperateDan wrote: »

Kcross if an electric shower and a 32A charger can trip a fuse box does that mean it's nigh on impossible to home charge 2-3 cars in a normal house in Ireland simultaneously? Envisaging things in 5-10 years that sounds like a deal breaker.

As the owner of two EVs with regularly 3-4 charging at my place (now eight EVs in my extended family) I can answer that.

There are solutions. One is that the standard domestic ESB connection should be increased from ~12kW to 20-22kW. The UK has already gone down this route for all new builds.

Two, instant electric showers are frankly a waste of your electricity import capacity, drawing 7-11kW of that ~12kW Maximum Import Capacity. They need to be strongly discouraged in favor of centrally heating the water by whatever method.

The last is smarter charging. All of my newer chargepoints have the ability to "load share". I've set them for the maximum amperage I want to allow then to draw and they work out the split themselves. My most advanced chargepoints do this based on the charge state of each vehicle, estimated departure time, entries in the main drivers google calendar (taking into account travel time and traffic) and availability of power from local microgeneration (...and even take into account weather forecasts to estimate power production).

KCross

chewed wrote: »

Thanks KCross for the excellent info! I'm starting to follow this forum closely as I'm very keen to buy an EV, but need to weigh up everything first.

Would I be right in assuming that most EV drivers on this forum are driving a Nissan Leaf? There doesn't appear to be much of a choice in cars right now.

Leaf is the vast majority of BEV's in this country.

The other common ones are Zoe and i3.
And the Ioniq which really only came out in 171 (small few 162's).
And then the expensive Tesla S & X

DesperateDan wrote: »

Kcross if an electric shower and a 32A charger can trip a fuse box does that mean it's nigh on impossible to home charge 2-3 cars in a normal house in Ireland simultaneously? Envisaging things in 5-10 years that sounds like a deal breaker.

Its possible to charge more than one car.
You'd need to get an enhanced ESB supply. The standard domestic connection is 12kVA. You can increase it to 16kVA (for about €1100) and you can also request 3-phase but that costs thousands.

A 16kVA supply and a load sharing charge point would easily charge 2-3 cars overnight.

goz83

DesperateDan wrote: »

Kcross if an electric shower and a 32A charger can trip a fuse box does that mean it's nigh on impossible to home charge 2-3 cars in a normal house in Ireland simultaneously? Envisaging things in 5-10 years that sounds like a deal breaker.

2 Leafs here. (3.3 & 6.6). If I want/need to charge both, I plug one into the EVSE and I use the granny charger to plug in the other Leaf. I happen to have a standard 13amp socket built into my EVSE, which is very handy. A third EV could be plugged into the other external socket I have in the garden.

chewed

This is great information! Thanks everyone.

karltimber

great info folks.

So I import a UK LEAF - say a 2015
some websites show - 24kwh (battery size) but also 80kw - whats the 80kw ?
why are there very few 30kwh models about - uk at least.

No vrt - tax at e120 -
home charger install -e600

Need to make sure it's battery owned not leased.

other main points to consider ?


as an example buy - plus/neg on this model on autotrader

Thx

K

KCross

karltimber wrote: »

great info folks.

So I import a UK LEAF - say a 2015
some websites show - 24kwh (battery size) but also 80kw - whats the 80kw ?
why are there very few 30kwh models about - uk at least.

24kWh is the capacity of the battery. There are two sizes.... 24kWh and 30kWh. The 30kWh only came out in late 152, mainly 161+.


The 80kW is the power of the motor. All Leaf's regardless of spec are 80kW.

Other important point to consider is whether you want & need the 6.6kW onboard charger which significantly reduces your target market as they are relatively rare. Most come with the standard 3.3kW charger and if the ad doesn't say it it is likely a 3.3kW.

The 6.6kW would be most useful if you come home on low charge and you want to go out again that day. The 6.6kW will top you up twice as fast as the standard 3.3kW. You need a 32A charge point to go with that then of course.... see post 5 above.

karltimber

But a 3.3kw charger is fine for home overnight charging ?

and how long with a 3.3kw charger would a top-up at a public station take - from say 25% to 80% - approx.

Just edited my search and correct - all 2016 onwards
I will be purchasing start of 2018 so great on that front - 2 year old cars.

K

KCross

karltimber wrote: »

But a 3.3kw charger is fine for home overnight charging ?

Yes, perfectly fine.

karltimber wrote: »

and how long with a 3.3kw charger would a top-up at a public station take - from say 25% to 80% - approx.

Depends on the charger

There are AC and DC chargers. The AC will use the on board charger in the car (i.e. the 3.3kW).

The DC bypasses the AC charger and chargers the battery directly at upto 45kW's. About 25mins to get to 80% on DC.

cros13

karltimber wrote: »

But a 3.3kw charger is fine for home overnight charging ?

Yup

karltimber wrote: »

and how long with a 3.3kw charger would a top-up at a public station take - from say 25% to 80% - approx.

A rapid charger bypasses the onboard charger and will give you 0-80% in 20-30 minutes. For that purpose it therefore doesn't matter what onboard charger you have.

A streetside port will however be limited to the same speed you'll see at home. So, 25 - 80% in ~5-6 hours.

chewed

Off topic again, but what if you were stuck with a flat battery. Is there any way to charge off a standard house socket?

goz83

chewed wrote: »

Off topic again, but what if you were stuck with a flat battery. Is there any way to charge off a standard house socket?

yes. using a granny cable

chewed

goz83 wrote: »

yes. using a granny cable

OK thanks.

KCross

chewed wrote: »

Off topic again, but what if you were stuck with a flat battery. Is there any way to charge off a standard house socket?

The reality is that if you have a flat battery you are at the side of the road nowhere near a house socket. In that particular case you have to get it put on a flatbed and brought home or to a public charger.

As goz83 says, the granny cable does allow you to plug it into a standard 3-pin socket which can be used instead of a wall mounted charge point.

Most Leaf's don't come with a granny cable and they are expensive to buy.

The granny cable also only charges at 10A (vs 16A or 32A on the wall mounted units) so it is slower again to charge on them but is just about manageable overnight assuming you have an outdoor socket in the right location.

karltimber

Ref overnight house charging

Is it better to get a "nightsaver" meter installed to get a cheaper rate ?

KCross

karltimber wrote: »

Ref overnight house charging

Is it better to get a "nightsaver" meter installed to get a cheaper rate ?

Yes

goz83

karltimber wrote: »

Ref overnight house charging

Is it better to get a "nightsaver" meter installed to get a cheaper rate ?

Yes. But it really makes sense to then change your house hold habits. This means using appliance timers where possible to turn on the dishwasher and washing machine at night.

My house uses more night rate than day rate, which is great. And it's not like the house is empty during the day. It's a busy house with a few electrical items running.

unkel

And using the night rate is probably one of the most environmentally friendly things you can do as there is a high average production of renewables (wind) at night. And you're taking the pressure off the grid.

Also having a night meter installed is free of charge. Your standing charge goes up by about €50 per year and your day rate goes up by about a cent, but then the cheapest night rate you can get is just 6.65c/kWh incl VAT. Or a 28kWh Ioniq charged from completely empty to completely full for €2 including all charging losses etc.

chewed

KCross wrote: »

3 things....

1) Grant to buy new of €5k
2) VRT exemption upto €5k
3) Free home charge point is only given when you buy a new EV from an SIMI registered dealer.

1 & 2 are usually already allowed for when you see the price on the dealers website (i.e. they have it already deducted and the price on their website is what you pay (except whatever haggling you can do).

Just one query on the Free home charge point.....Would this be available if you bought a 172 reg but wasn't brand new? Or does it have to be straight from the showroom?

KCross

chewed wrote: »

Just one query on the Free home charge point.....Would this be available if you bought a 172 reg but wasn't brand new? Or does it have to be straight from the showroom?

Some dealers, even secondhand, offer free home charge points but its not a grant as such just a perk they provide which is obviously built into the price of the car.

To avail of the "official" one from eCars it needs to be a new car. I'd imagine an ex-demo car would also qualify.
https://www.esb.ie/our-businesses/ecars/register-for-charging

chewed

Thanks again for all the info. Went for a test drive in a Leaf today. Very impressed, but need to decide whether to wait for the 2018 version or else go 2nd hand.

unkel

Did you test drive the Hyundai Ioniq Electric too?

chewed

unkel wrote: »

Did you test drive the Hyundai Ioniq Electric too?

No, they didn't have any in the showroom! They're waiting for them to be delivered. I really like the look of the Ioniq (much better looking car than the Leaf). I'll definitely try to get a test drive in the Ioniq as well.

goz83

chewed wrote: »

Thanks again for all the info. Went for a test drive in a Leaf today. Very impressed, but need to decide whether to wait for the 2018 version or else go 2nd hand.

If the current Leaf serves your needs, then the best financial decision is to go second hand.

vimalandrew

I am going to get a new EV next week of price 50000 under PCP scheme. when I checked the quote, I could see the total price is shown as 56000 with APR for 4 years. My dealer has applied for grant with my name for an amount of 5000 also. Actually who is going to get the grant; dealer or me. Will that money come to my bank account.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120238981#Comment_120238981

The dealer gets it. You pay the net price after grant.