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Teacher Unemployment

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    #32
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,222 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    I have met a teacher of English who regularly says she hates reading books.


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    #33
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,382 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    spurious wrote: »
    I have met a teacher of English who regularly says she hates reading books.

    I work with two such teachers. One of them also has a dislike of poetry.


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    #34
    Eimee90
    Registered Users Posts: 301 ✭✭Eimee90


    I think that applies to all ages, not just new teachers. I'm sorry I just find those comments really insulting. I worked so hard to get where I am today. My friends who are new teachers have also done the same and I consider myself to be as competent as any senior teacher, what I will learn is experience from them.

    But I'll make no apologies for being insulted like this. Making sweeping generalisations is unfair. I have seen a lot of older teachers whom I have questions about their ability to teach but I know not all senior teachers are like that. Teacher bashing is ugly but even worse when it's coming from the inside.

    Rather than coming onto a forum to bash someone, did you ever consider to advise that new teacher or suggest other methods of teaching. Would do a lot more good than gossiping behind their back.


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    #35
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    mtoutlemonde wrote: »
    Have a look at the Voice For Teachers Facebook page ... where the posters never heard of Google and the spelling and grammar is frightening. I worry about the next generation when I read that page. Thankfully it doesn't happen here as much.

    Between 2009-2012 entry to Hdip/PDE courses was at it's most fierce and you needed very high grades because people wanted a safe, well paid job after the fright of the recession and huge numbers retrained. If you had a business degree you needed a master's with it for NUIM regardless of the grade and for other strands you needed a high 2.1. Following the decrease in pay and worsening conditions, coupled with an upswing in the economy, entry to these courses is no longer competitive.

    The most idiotic responses (grammar not included) on VfT are invariably older, more experienced teachers.


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    #36
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,382 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    elsa21 wrote: »
    I think that applies to all ages, not just new teachers. I'm sorry I just find those comments really insulting. I worked so hard to get where I am today. My friends who are new teachers have also done the same and I consider myself to be as competent as any senior teacher, what I will learn is experience from them.

    But I'll make no apologies for being insulted like this. Making sweeping generalisations is unfair. I have seen a lot of older teachers whom I have questions about their ability to teach but I know not all senior teachers are like that. Teacher bashing is ugly but even worse when it's coming from the inside.

    Rather than coming onto a forum to bash someone, did you ever consider to advise that new teacher or suggest other methods of teaching. Would do a lot more good than gossiping behind their back.


    No point in getting insulted about it. Nobody here has said that all new teachers are like that, but it is a concern to see people coming through that just aren't that good.

    Teaching just like every other profession has people working in it that shouldn't be working in it. We had a new teacher in last year doing a maternity leave. She spent a lot of time telling other more experienced teachers how to do their job, not just how to teach but what they should be teaching in their subjects, and the reality was she was doing very little herself and what she was doing wasn't very good.

    We had a dip student in this year (former student) who rocked up one morning for a double class and when the cooperating teacher asked her what she was doing with them for the class out of curiosity, the dip replied 'I just thought I'd use your powerpoints that you used when you taught it'. The cooperating teacher's jaw hit the floor at the cheekiness, lack of initiative, laziness and general apathy from a dip who was expecting an inspection visit and hadn't bothered to put anything together, if she didn't get the powerpoint that morning, she'd have had nothing for class.

    Another guy doing the dip asked to do some observation classes. So he was sitting in the back of a teacher's class when one of the students made a smart comment to the teacher, and some of the students started laughing at the comment. Teacher reprimanded said student and got on with her class. What she did say to me afterwards that was shocked her more was the dip student, who is aiming to be a teacher in the next 12 months or so, sat there sniggering with the students, thinking this was great craic. I must say she had great patience. If that had happened in my class, he'd have been fcuked out the door so fast he wouldn't know what hit him.

    So while you might have worked extremely hard to get to where you are elsa21, don't be under the illusion that everyone else is doing the same. Some teaching candidates shouldn't be let near a classroom.


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    #37
    mtoutlemonde
    Registered Users Posts: 2,134 ✭✭✭mtoutlemonde


    elsa21 wrote: »
    I think that applies to all ages, not just new teachers. I'm sorry I just find those comments really insulting. I worked so hard to get where I am today. My friends who are new teachers have also done the same and I consider myself to be as competent as any senior teacher, what I will learn is experience from them.

    But I'll make no apologies for being insulted like this. Making sweeping generalisations is unfair. I have seen a lot of older teachers whom I have questions about their ability to teach but I know not all senior teachers are like that. Teacher bashing is ugly but even worse when it's coming from the inside.

    Rather than coming onto a forum to bash someone, did you ever consider to advise that new teacher or suggest other methods of teaching. Would do a lot more good than gossiping behind their back.

    You're taking it all very personal. Of course there are bad senior teachers - that's life - they just got lucky in securing employment.

    This thread was about teacher unemployment and has now become an advice (sort of) on what gets someone a job. The advice is to check your letter of application/CV for errors - grammatical/spelling etc. otherwise it will end up in the bin.

    Also you say that we are gossiping behind teachers backs ... put yourself in an experienced teacher who has a dipper who is unprepared and does not understand their subject which they are meant to be an expert in and saying 'Well John, I think you're useless!' - Would you honestly do this?
    Now everyone needs help sometime but a maths teacher who can't do a jcert problem has a major problem and this will be evident at interviews and end up in unemployment.


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    #38
    mtoutlemonde
    Registered Users Posts: 2,134 ✭✭✭mtoutlemonde


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    No point in getting insulted about it. Nobody here has said that all new teachers are like that, but it is a concern to see people coming through that just aren't that good.

    Teaching just like every other profession has people working in it that shouldn't be working in it. We had a new teacher in last year doing a maternity leave. She spent a lot of time telling other more experienced teachers how to do their job, not just how to teach but what they should be teaching in their subjects, and the reality was she was doing very little herself and what she was doing wasn't very good.

    We had a dip student in this year (former student) who rocked up one morning for a double class and when the cooperating teacher asked her what she was doing with them for the class out of curiosity, the dip replied 'I just thought I'd use your powerpoints that you used when you taught it'. The cooperating teacher's jaw hit the floor at the cheekiness, lack of initiative, laziness and general apathy from a dip who was expecting an inspection visit and hadn't bothered to put anything together, if she didn't get the powerpoint that morning, she'd have had nothing for class.

    Another guy doing the dip asked to do some observation classes. So he was sitting in the back of a teacher's class when one of the students made a smart comment to the teacher, and some of the students started laughing at the comment. Teacher reprimanded said student and got on with her class. What she did say to me afterwards that was shocked her more was the dip student, who is aiming to be a teacher in the next 12 months or so, sat there sniggering with the students, thinking this was great craic. I must say she had great patience. If that had happened in my class, he'd have been fcuked out the door so fast he wouldn't know what hit him.

    So while you might have worked extremely hard to get to where you are elsa21, don't be under the illusion that everyone else is doing the same. Some teaching candidates shouldn't be let near a classroom.

    I had a dipper who had a few of my classes. I wasn't long out of dip and he knew that. He asked if he could see a lesson plan which I showed him. When he saw a folder of lesson plans, He said 'Thanks, you don't mind if I print them all out?' I don't need to give the answer. This dipper was incredibly unreliable, unprepared and didn't realise where he was working with his attire but ended up getting a job straight out of university.


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    #39
    Eimee90
    Registered Users Posts: 301 ✭✭Eimee90


    mtoutlemonde wrote:
    You're taking it all very personal. Of course there are bad senior teachers - that's life - they just got lucky in securing employment.


    I'm not taking it personal but this thread has been derailed to bash dips or PME's. It's a bit tiring. Not what this thread was supposed be.


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    #40
    Airyfairy12
    Registered Users Posts: 3,405 ✭✭✭Airyfairy12


    Its very hard to find work, I know a number of people I went to school with who went straight into University to study secondary school teaching in subjects like home ec, history, english, french, german and religion, we finished school 12 years ago. After years of subbing all around the country sometimes only getting 4 - 6 hours work a week most of them left the profession. One of them got a permanent contract teaching Religion and one other subject, the rest either went back to college to study something else, went into ELT teaching working with migrants or got jobs in Google, paypal ect.
    That being said, a girl I went to University with did her PME and got a job straight after in her old secondary school, simply because her and her parents know the principal. She shouldnt be teaching, she can't handle groups of teenagers and its unfortunate because it's the students that lose out in the long run, but this seems to be a common occurrence were principals are hiring their friends, relatives and friends children regardless of whether or not theyre suited to the job.
    Another friend of mine recently had an interview for a pme in the North and was told they'd had 500 applicants.
    Since the 1 year Hdip has been changed to a 2 year masters id imagine the number of applications will go down as the courses are now twice as long and twice as expensive (10,000 - 12,000 for fees) which isnt affordable for allot of people and given the low job prospects it might put people off. Its allot of money to spend when there's no guarantee of a job at the end of it.


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    #41
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    Just on your last point. I ld say what is killing it for a lot of new entrants is the part time ad hoc nature of it. You're literally (figuratively! ) living on hope and being strung along for years.


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    #42
    Crazyteacher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,438 ✭✭✭Crazyteacher


    With regards that Facebook page, theres regular occurrence of the following: the exact same question has been asked two comments below theirs. On a number of occasions , they ask for resources for a subject they have never taught before or never qualified in. I don't understand how they got through teaching practice without making resources or even college without having heard about or being told about the PDST or their subject associations. There's definitely a reliance on some of that generation to be handed information/resources. Like mletoutlemonde said , some can't even google anymore. Are we focusing so much on getting them to third level , that we are missing out on the practical stuff like how to find out info / make a phone call.


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    #43
    Romantic Rose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭Romantic Rose


    On the asking other teachers questions on maths, I was teaching 3D shape one day and discussed with the class how many edges a cone has. I said one.

    The senior room teacher came in to the staff room and was discussing this exact question with his class. Cue us having a big discussion if a cone has an edge etc. Out come the teacher resource books to try to get a definitive answer and lo and behold, some maths programmes say a cone has one, other programmes say it had none.


    Don't understand how they can contradict each other.


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    #44
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    Romantic Rose wrote: »
    On the asking other teachers questions on maths, I was teaching 3D shape one day and discussed with the class how many edges a cone has. I said one.

    The senior room teacher came in to the staff room and was discussing this exact question with his class. Cue us having a big discussion if a cone has an edge etc. Out come the teacher resource books to try to get a definitive answer and lo and behold, some maths programmes say a cone has one, other programmes say it had none.


    Don't understand how they can contradict each other.

    Irish textbooks are awful and constructed on sand.


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    #45
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,517 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    Theres a notion out there that the people who write the textbooks are Gods and experts in the subject area. Unfortunately that has been proven to not be the case.


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    #46
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,222 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    TheDriver wrote: »
    Theres a notion out there that the people who write the textbooks are Gods and experts in the subject area. Unfortunately that has been proven to not be the case.

    Even worse, some exam marking schemes are looking for answers that have been given in textbooks and learned off, despite not actually being correct.


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