Irish Border and Brexit

Thomas__

An interesting Suggestion in this article which is about Ireland joining the Schengen Region in order to avoid all the Trouble currently Happening at Airports this time. The article has of course a reference to the Irish border issue in regards of Brexit too:

http://www.independent.ie/life/travel/eoghan-corry-join-schengen-and-all-our-airport-queueing-issues-are-over-35995707.html

...
Ireland is not in Schengen for reasons that are pretty simple. When Leo Varadkar was transport minister he said we want to be in Schengen, but while we have a land border with stridently anti-Schengen Britain, we cannot. With Britain out and Northern Ireland still hanging in limbo, we had no choice.
How that particular landscape will change by March 2019 is as unclear as can be imagined. If Britain pulls out of the EU, staying out of Schengen may no longer be an option.
In Irish Brexit is called Breat-imeacht, which sounds pejorative. Across Europe they are calling it B'riddance (good riddance to the Brits).
Brexit may exacerbate border problems for us while we are in a separate visa region.
There is a clear option for Ireland to get rid of the airline queue problem.
Join Schengen.
Over to you, Leo.

It certainly has its merits, but without doubt, it would seale the Irish border matter to NI with a hard border that would be compulsive by the standards required by the Schengen Agreement which is the basis for the Schengen Region. If the British will reinstall a hard border in NI on their own initiative, Ireland would have to do the same in return and joining the Schengen Region in such circumstances would be just a formality.

PS: I never heard or read the expression "B'riddance (good riddance to the Brits) before. Although it sounds funny in some ways, I don´t think that it will all be that funny in reality when it happens.

Thomas__

LeinsterDub wrote: »

sondagefaux wrote: »

A nicely timed article for this thread.

https://www.irishcentral.com/homepage/brexit-border-battle-about-to-change-irish-british-relationship-forever

The article sets out four options:

a. Trump-style wall
b. special status for Northern Ireland, keeping it in the EU
c. the Irish Sea as the border
d. reunification of Ireland

The article's author:

Forgive my ignorance but isn't special status just the Irish sea border plus? And wouldn't the Irish sea boarder require all Irish and Northern Irish  goods to be checked entering the EU? Otherwise what's to stop something being transported south and onwards as Irish.

The Irish sea border doesn't seem workable without special status.

No idea why that should be the case in regards to the Republic of Ireland.

LeinsterDub

Thomas__ wrote: »

No idea why that should be the case in regards to the Republic of Ireland.

A Northern Irish and Irish truck board a ferry and get to France how do the French know the Irish truck isn't full of Northern Irish goods? Smuggling would be rife.

Thomas__

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Thomas__ wrote: »

No idea why that should be the case in regards to the Republic of Ireland.

A Northern Irish and Irish truck board a ferry and get to France how do the French know the Irish truck isn't full of Northern Irish goods? Smuggling would be rife.

The first smuggling route would certainly be from NI to the Republic and then take to goods from the NI truck into the Irish truck before boarding the ferry to France. Otherwise the French can tell by the number plate of the two trucks.

Bishopsback

LeinsterDub wrote: »

A Northern Irish and Irish truck board a ferry and get to France how do the French know the Irish truck isn't full of Northern Irish goods? Smuggling would be rife.

Then there's the Irish trucks entering mainland Europe from Britain, as many do, they will have to be checked on entry to Britain and at at the tunnel I'm sure. There will be lots of logistical nightmares when all is thought through.

Bit cynical

VinLieger wrote: »

No we didn't, the EU countries have always been aligned 100% that freedom of movement along with their debts were to be agreed before anything else.

This is somewhat contradicted by an article former foreign minister, Charlie Flanagan gave to the Financial Times:

In an interview with the Financial Times, Charlie Flanagan, Irish foreign minister, said an immediate row over the bill would shunt the negotiations into a cul-de-sac that would overshadow other issues, including the rights of EU citizens in the UK, trade and the status of the border between the Irish Republic and Northern Ireland.

“I would say to my European colleagues, don’t get hung up on the magnitude of the cheque,” Mr Flanagan said. “We want to give a fair wind to the negotiations and we don’t want anything early on that is going to cause conflict. Let’s agree the principle of liabilities first, and then go away and work them out . . . rather than going down a cul-de-sac over one particular issue.”

You can see here that Flanagan is worried that arguments about the bill will delay resolution of trade and other issues.

Also whats the point in discussing trade before a decision on a border which will affect trade has been decided?

But likewise what is the point of discussing the border when issues of trade have not been agreed? If an FTA were to be agreed then fairly minimal border infrastructure would be required as the incentive to smuggling would not be there to the same extent. If the UK reverts to WTO rules with Ireland then quite significant border infrastructure will be needed.

The question is what do we (Ireland) want. Apart from the UK, we are the country that will most be affected by the negotiations (possibly more so economically according to some predictions). I'm surprised most people are quite happy to let others make the decisions on the rather spurious basis that the UK initiated brexit. Do we think we will get some sort of reward for our self-sacrifice?

LeinsterDub

Bit cynical wrote: »

The question is what do we (Ireland) want. Apart from the UK, we are the country that will most be affected by the negotiations (possibly more so economically according to some predictions). I'm surprised most people are quite happy to let others make the decisions on the rather spurious basis that the UK initiated brexit. Do we think we will get some sort of reward for our self-sacrifice?

Others aren't making decisions we will have veto. What self-sacrifice? Our agenda is top of the EU agenda.

Bit cynical

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Others aren't making decisions we will have veto. What self-sacrifice? Our agenda is top of the EU agenda.

Can you show me that agenda? Just having a look through the position papes:

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/brexit-negotiations/negotiating-documents-article-50-negotiations-united-kingdom_en?field_core_tags_tid_i18n=351&page=1

The border does not come up as a specific topic although it may get a mention in one of the papers.

The financial settlement, one of the things Ireland was hoping would not hold up talks on trade does get a position paper as does atomic energy cooperation and other issues.

So I'm afraid that when it comes to actual work being done, the border is not top of the agenda despite reassuring statements from Barnier et. al.

swampgas

Actually, from a UK perspective, there is a way to keep the Irish border open: Ireland also leaves the EU (or leaves to the same extent that the UK does). There have been noises from some in the UK suggesting that it would be best for Ireland to follow the UK out.

So maybe when the Bristish Government says they want to keep the border open, that's what they have in mind. Nothing else makes any sense.

VinLieger

Bit cynical wrote: »

This is somewhat contradicted by an article former foreign minister, Charlie Flanagan gave to the Financial Times:

In an interview with the Financial Times, Charlie Flanagan, Irish foreign minister, said an immediate row over the bill would shunt the negotiations into a cul-de-sac that would overshadow other issues, including the rights of EU citizens in the UK, trade and the status of the border between the Irish Republic and Northern Ireland.

“I would say to my European colleagues, don’t get hung up on the magnitude of the cheque,” Mr Flanagan said. “We want to give a fair wind to the negotiations and we don’t want anything early on that is going to cause conflict. Let’s agree the principle of liabilities first, and then go away and work them out . . . rather than going down a cul-de-sac over one particular issue.”

You can see here that Flanagan is worried that arguments about the bill will delay resolution of trade and other issues.

That quote is nothing near what you claimed

Bit cynical wrote: »

At one point we wanted trade talks to run in parallel with other talks.

Fratton Fred

Bishopsback wrote: »

Then there's the Irish trucks entering mainland Europe from Britain, as many do, they will have to be checked on entry to Britain and at at the tunnel I'm sure. There will be lots of logistical nightmares when all is thought through.

This is by no means a unique position and is well catered for under international treaties.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIR_Convention

LeinsterDub

Bit cynical wrote: »

Can you show me that agenda? Just having a look through the position papes:

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/brexit-negotiations/negotiating-documents-article-50-negotiations-united-kingdom_en?field_core_tags_tid_i18n=351&page=1

The border does not come up as a specific topic although it may get a mention in one of the papers.

The financial settlement, one of the things Ireland was hoping would not hold up talks on trade does get a position paper as does atomic energy cooperation and other issues.

So I'm afraid that when it comes to actual work being done, the border is not top of the agenda despite reassuring statements from Barnier et. al.

Avoiding a hard Border between Northern Ireland and the Republic is one of three priorities for the EU as it enters the first phase of Brexit negotiations, European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker has said.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/brexit-avoiding-hard-border-one-of-three-talks-priorities-for-eu-1.3086165

VinLieger

swampgas wrote: »

Actually, from a UK perspective, there is a way to keep the Irish border open: Ireland also leaves the EU (or leaves to the same extent that the UK does). There have been noises from some in the UK suggesting that it would be best for Ireland to follow the UK out.

So maybe when the Bristish Government says they want to keep the border open, that's what they have in mind. Nothing else makes any sense.

Exactly nothing else makes any sense but us following them out of the EU is not likely to happen anytime soon.

Therefore Occams Razor - they still have no clue of the realities of the situation and don't really know what they are doing

Bit cynical

LeinsterDub wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/brexit-avoiding-hard-border-one-of-three-talks-priorities-for-eu-1.3086165

Nevertheless when it comes to actual work done, the border does not seem to be much of a priority.

LeinsterDub

Bit cynical wrote: »

Nevertheless when it comes to actual work done, the border does not seem to be much of a priority.

Can't talk about the border till the UK says what sort of customs agreement it wants, agrees to the financial commitments and the faith of EU citizens

Mr Juncker identified three priorities for the first phase of the talks. First “and foremost” the two sides needed to deal with the situation of more than four million people – 1.2 million Britons living in the EU and about 3.2 million EU nationals living in the UK – whose lives would be directly impacted by Brexit.

The second priority was the need to agree that “all financial commitments given by the EU will be honoured by the UK” – a reference to the contentious divorce bill, estimated at up to £60 billion, that the EU argues must be paid by London before the UK leaves the bloc.

InTheTrees

Thomas__ wrote: »

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Thomas__ wrote: »

No idea why that should be the case in regards to the Republic of Ireland.

A Northern Irish and Irish truck board a ferry and get to France how do the French know the Irish truck isn't full of Northern Irish goods? Smuggling would be rife.

The first smuggling route would certainly be from NI to the Republic and then take to goods from the NI truck into the Irish truck before boarding the ferry to France. Otherwise the French can tell by the number plate of the two trucks.

Well that's the point isn't it? Both trucks need to be checked in france, the one from NI and the one from ROI.

First Up

InTheTrees wrote: »

Well that's the point isn't it? Both trucks need to be checked in france, the one from NI and the one from ROI.

Unless the truck from NI has been checked at the border.

Bit cynical

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Can't talk about the border till the UK says what sort of customs agreement it wants, agrees to the financial commitments and the faith of EU citizens

+ the other things that are to be discussed. However none of that is consistent with the Irish border being "top of the agenda".

InTheTrees

First Up wrote: »

InTheTrees wrote: »

Well that's the point isn't it? Both trucks need to be checked in france, the one from NI and the one from ROI.

Unless the truck from NI has been checked at the border.

Well yes of course, but the question was about not checking at the border but leaving it up to the French.

First Up

InTheTrees wrote:

Well yes of course, but the question was about not checking at the border but leaving it up to the French.

I don't know what the final system will look like but you can be sure of two things;

1 - Goods entering the EU from the UK will be subject to whatever customs procedures arise from the terms of trade agreed between the UK and the EU. That will apply as much between NI and ROI as anywhere else.

2 - Ireland's membership of the Single Market will not be disadvantaged by having to undergo French customs in order to catch undocumented goods in transit from the UK.

sondagefaux

Bit cynical wrote: »

Nevertheless when it comes to actual work done, the border does not seem to be much of a priority.

How can the EU negotiate border arrangements with the UK when the UK hasn't yet decided what it wants?

Essentially, whatever arrangements there are on the Irish border will be because of the relationship the UK has with the EU.

If the UK decides to remain in the Single Market, and asks for a customs union agreement with the EU, the consequential arrangements necessary for the Irish border which suit this particular agreement (Customs Union & Single Market) can be arranged.

If the UK continues down the path of withdrawing from the customs union and the Single Market, the consequential arrangements necessary for the Irish border which suit this particular agreement (no Customs Union & no Single Market) can be arranged.

If the media reports of splits in the UK cabinet are any indication, the UK has yet to decide what kind of relationship it wants with the EU, despite the statements from Theresa May, who clearly now lacks the political authority to impose her views on her own cabinet.

LeinsterDub

Bit cynical wrote: »

+ the other things that are to be discussed. However none of that is consistent with the Irish border being "top of the agenda".

It's in the top three. In my opinion the EU expected citizens rights and outstanding debts to be the low hanging fruits not major sticking points and the border would be discussed fairly shortly after negotiations started

Capt'n Midnight

swampgas wrote: »

Actually, from a UK perspective, there is a way to keep the Irish border open: Ireland also leaves the EU (or leaves to the same extent that the UK does). There have been noises from some in the UK suggesting that it would be best for Ireland to follow the UK out.

So maybe when the Bristish Government says they want to keep the border open, that's what they have in mind. Nothing else makes any sense.

Irexit has practically no support down here.

Backing for Irish membership of the EU remains high at 88pc, according to the survey by the European Movement.


https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2017/0521/876875-poll-brexit-europe/

When asked whether voters trusted parties to the upcoming Brexit negotiations to protect Irish interests: 75% of voters trust our own Government to do so; 72% trust the EU's negotiating team; while only 43% trust the British government.
...
On the whole, the survey found that voters see our future within the EU, with 71% agreeing that Ireland should stay in the EU, even if the outcome of the Brexit negotiations are bad for the country.

Voters also want to see a closer-knit Europe after Britain leaves the Union, with 67% of respondents saying that they want to see further EU integration once a Brexit deal has been agreed.

I'd expect the % trusting the UK govt to have dropped somewhat since the negotiations began.

swampgas

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Irexit has practically no support down here.

Backing for Irish membership of the EU remains high at 88pc, according to the survey by the European Movement.


https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2017/0521/876875-poll-brexit-europe/

I'd expect the % trusting the UK govt to have dropped somewhat since the negotiations began.

Absolutely - but I wouldn't be surprised to find that the UK's approach to fixing the border problem will be to tell us to join them outside the EU. It's nuts to us, but to hard core Brexiteers it might make a weird sort of sense ...

paul2013

No offence to anyone on this discussion and please don't ban me from it.

1. Camera Surveillance will not work on the Irish border due to the fact that anyone can run through a field and evade the camera.

2. You have to live in Belfast for a year to understand why a "United Ireland" won't win through. It's a completely different Ireland in North, East and South Belfast as they have so called "Peace walls" between these communities. I have spoken to both sides of the wall and the would like to see their neighbour on the other side of the wall as they are picking up each others WI-FI signal believe it or not.

3. If Ireland eventually becomes 1 unit again, Where would we accommodate the NEW Ulster TD's (MP's) . Leinster House would be too small. I have spoken to DUP member and yes they have said in a personal capacity they would rather be in Dublin than travelling over to the UK where the House of Commons empties out when Northern Ireland is being discussed. They want Leinster House to be called "Ireland's House".

4. Ulster would want representation at the cabinet table and not be a minority when it comes to being an ALL IRELAND decision.

5. They want to host a GAA All Ireland Quarter final weather it be hurling or Gaelic football. It will unify Gaelic sports in an ALL Ireland capacity.
Also the IRFU would want to bring six nations games to Belfast as we play in United Ireland capacity when playing.

Capt'n Midnight

paul2013 wrote: »

1. Camera Surveillance will not work on the Irish border due to the fact that anyone can run through a field and evade the camera.

Have a read of this for delusions on an electronic border https://sluggerotoole.com/2017/08/02/sir-jeffreys-cunning-border-plan/

Drones, spray paint.

2. You have to live in Belfast for a year to understand why a "United Ireland" won't win through. It's a completely different Ireland in North, East and South Belfast as they have so called "Peace walls" between these communities. I have spoken to both sides of the wall and the would like to see their neighbour on the other side of the wall as they are picking up each others WI-FI signal believe it or not.

Parts of Dublin and Limerick are no go areas too. And besides what would actually make both sides in those areas happy ?

3. If Ireland eventually becomes 1 unit again, Where would we accommodate the NEW Ulster TD's (MP's) . Leinster House would be too small. I have spoken to DUP member and yes they have said in a personal capacity they would rather be in Dublin than travelling over to the UK where the House of Commons empties out when Northern Ireland is being discussed. They want Leinster House to be called "Ireland's House".

Damn, knew we should have taken College Green when we bailed out Bank Of Ireland. :pac:

By population it would mean 60 new TD's vs 90 MLA's + 17 MP's - and the experience of the peace process is that you need jobs for the boys so there'll have to be something for everyone

Perhaps 23 Senators , but the allocations would be interesting.

Or I could point out that the House of Commons only has 2/3rd's of the capacity it needs. Standing room only when busy.

Or make NI an autonomous region, with a separate national parliament like it currently is.


The name change is petty. Duke of Leinster, 1748 etc. "what colour should the bike shed be ?" - ignore until real progress elsewhere. Compared to ditching Article 2, 3 of the constitution it's not a biggie unless used as a point of conflict.

4. Ulster would want representation at the cabinet table and not be a minority when it comes to being an ALL IRELAND decision.

autonomous region OR the Unionists could join a coalition.

Someone can correct me but reluctance of southern parties to go into government with Sinn Fein means the Unionists could easily hold the balance of power for some time.

5. They want to host a GAA All Ireland Quarter final weather it be hurling or Gaelic football. It will unify Gaelic sports in an ALL Ireland capacity.
Also the IRFU would want to bring six nations games to Belfast as we play in United Ireland capacity when playing.

Bad news there, previous governments handed out cash for the refurbishment of Croke Park without getting any concessions.

joeysoap

paul2013 wrote: »

1. Camera Surveillance will not work on the Irish border due to the fact that anyone can run through a field and evade the camera.

Running through fields is not the problem, it's the number of unofficial crossing points that will spring up if there are serious delays on the main roads. Huge transporters won't be able to use them, but locals will.


2. You have to live in Belfast for a year to understand why a "United Ireland" won't win through. It's a completely different Ireland in North, East and South Belfast....


Agreed on that, it's a different world.

Sam Russell

oscarBravo wrote: »

3. If Ireland eventually becomes 1 unit again, Where would we accommodate the NEW Ulster TD's (MP's) . Leinster House would be too small. I have spoken to DUP member and yes they have said in a personal capacity they would rather be in Dublin than travelling over to the UK where the House of Commons empties out when Northern Ireland is being discussed. They want Leinster House to be called "Ireland's House".

.

Surely the obvious choice for the seat of Government in a united Ireland would be Stormont - a huge purpose built grandiose white elephant.

It has plenty of accommodation for the Dail and Senate and fit for a country like ours.

There you are - first sop to the North.

A Little Pony

Well little Leo visited gods own country today, he is a funny character. He talked about getting the executive up again.

Junkyard Tom

paul2013 wrote: »

Ulster would want representation at the cabinet table and not be a minority when it comes to being an ALL IRELAND decision.

Ulster the province or the six counties formerly known as NI? Do you mean Unionists?

Junkyard Tom

A Little Pony wrote: »

gods own country today

It's not a country and it's remarkable that we have a FG Taoiseach facing up to the DUP and speaking for the all of the people in the northeast of Ireland.

If you'd have predicted that of a FG leader two years ago I would have laughed at the notion. The times they are a changin'.

A Little Pony

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

gods own country today

It's not a country and it's remarkable that we have a FG Taoiseach facing up to the DUP and speaking for the all of the people in the northeast of Ireland.

If you'd have predicted that of a FG leader two years ago I would have laughed at the notion. The times they are a changin'.

It's remarkable that an Irish politician disagrees on Brexit/DUP? No, no it's not.

Junkyard Tom

A Little Pony wrote: »

It's remarkable that an Irish politician disagrees on Brexit/DUP? No, no it's not.

It's not just that he disagrees with the DUP/Brexit (who doesn't in Britain and Ireland and the six counties) it's remarkable that a FG leader is stepping up to the plate and speaking for the rights of the people in the northeast.

The Golden Miller

A Little Pony wrote: »

It's remarkable that an Irish politician disagrees on Brexit/DUP? No, no it's not.

You do realise FG have, to a degree, always sympathised with unionists since partition, yes? Yet you still try and sneer and portray them as the enemy? Is anyone born south of the border automatically considered an enemy trying to erode your culture? If southern unionists are publicly disagreeing you as opposed to trying to twist the situation to attack Sinn Fein, then things are bad

oscarBravo

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

It's not just that he disagrees with the DUP/Brexit (who doesn't in Britain and Ireland and the six counties) it's remarkable that a FG leader is stepping up to the plate and speaking for the rights of the people in the northeast.

Not that remarkable.



I know it's fashionable in some quarters to paint FG as imperialist lapdogs desperate to rejoin Her Majesty's glorious realm at the drop of a hat, but for those who don't do their thinking in caricatures, there's nothing surprising here.

Junkyard Tom

oscarBravo wrote: »

Not that remarkable.

It doesn't seem remarkable from a contemporary point of view but would have been viewed as fanciful a few years ago. Seriously, an Irish-Indian gay FG Taoiseach attending a Pride event and speaking up for the rights of people in the north? That would have sounded utterly ludicrous not so long ago.

I know it's fashionable in some quarters to paint FG as imperialist lapdogs desperate to rejoin Her Majesty's glorious realm at the drop of a hat, but for those who don't do their thinking in caricatures, there's nothing surprising here.

A caricature of a caricature?

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

It's remarkable that an Irish politician disagrees on Brexit/DUP? No, no it's not.

DUP snookered as they keeping doing to themselves and a new FG leader who, so far, is not doing a John Bruton.

The message is, do something to make northern Ireland a special case or Dublin will be behind any moves to change it's status, whatever that may be. As long as it eases the damage to the whole island.

johnnyskeleton

The Golden Miller wrote: »

You do realise FG have, to a degree, always sympathised with unionists since partition, yes? Yet you still try and sneer and portray them as the enemy? Is anyone born south of the border automatically considered an enemy trying to erode your culture? If southern unionists are publicly disagreeing you as opposed to trying to twist the situation to attack Sinn Fein, then things are bad

Mod note:

Banned for trolling for 24 hours.

FrancieBrady

I don't think this party are downplaying or trying to pull the wool over eyes, they really are living in fantasy land.

https://www.irishtimes.com/digital-subscriptions/ie

When some of us in studio pointed out to him that the only “practical solution” would mean that either those of us from the Republic present our passports at a checkpoint somewhere just south of Newry or he would face such checks when landing at a airport in London on his way to Westminster, Donaldson was having none of it, saying there would be “technological solutions” to the problems.
In the intervening 14 months there has been no advance in the DUP’s understanding of this issue. The party has not published a single substantial paragraph on how customs or immigration controls might work after the Brexit for which it voted. It has simply repeated a vague mantra about how it wants a soft Border and that technology will solve the problem.
Last weekend, in response to Varadkar’s comments, Donaldson tweeted a map of the toll booths on our motorways saying “a country that uses electronic toll tag systems on 11 of its main roads can’t claim there isn’t a technological solution to the Brexit border”. In response several tweeters, including Alliance leader Naomi Long, pointed out to Donaldson that while technology could monitor car number plates it couldn’t determine the immigration status of the occupants, or the nature or origin of goods being transported in the vehicle. Others delicately asked how even if such wonderfully fantastic devices existed they could possibly be placed on the 400-plus roads crossing the border. Undaunted Donaldson maintained “technological solutions” would be “easily achievable”.

paul2013

First of All, can everyone please look on Google Maps and go on the old N1 road out of Dundalk before the crossing the invisible line and look at the border huts.

1. Notice how well maintained they are?

2. Why weren't they knocked to the ground? After 1993

3. Until all of Belfast agrees on being United with the rest of Ireland. We will NEVER have a one country free of British rule.

4. Armagh, Derry , Down, Fermanagh, Tyrone want to be with Ireland but until Antrim agrees to be with a one Ireland. A United Ireland will never happen. As Belfast is where the media garner the support for these unity polls

A Little Pony

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

It's remarkable that an Irish politician disagrees on Brexit/DUP? No, no it's not.

It's not just that he disagrees with the DUP/Brexit (who doesn't in Britain and Ireland and the six counties) it's remarkable that a FG leader is stepping up to the plate and speaking for the rights of the people in the northeast.

Well most Protestants aren't listening to him or know who he is. I know who he is because I read and study politics and daily events.

A Little Pony

paul2013 wrote: »

First of All, can everyone please look on Google Maps and go on the old N1 road out of Dundalk before the crossing the invisible line and look at the border huts.

1. Notice how well maintained they are?

2. Why weren't they knocked to the ground? After 1993

3. Until all of Belfast agrees on being United with the rest of Ireland. We will NEVER have a one country free of British rule.

4. Armagh, Derry , Down, Fermanagh, Tyrone want to be with Ireland but until Antrim agrees to be with a one Ireland. A United Ireland will never happen. As Belfast is where the media garner the support for these unity polls

Makes no sense to me. Northern Ireland will remain within the United Kingdom because that is what the majority of the population want. Only way that changes is if it changes obviously. But one county has such power as you describe, I don't understand that point.

Alun

paul2013 wrote: »

First of All, can everyone please look on Google Maps and go on the old N1 road out of Dundalk before the crossing the invisible line and look at the border huts.

1. Notice how well maintained they are?

https://www.google.ie/maps/@54.1120375,-6.3589312,3a,75y,98.18h,92.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPC6Q0xyWAYnXB7qvy1rmcQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

No, not really.

steddyeddy

A Little Pony wrote: »

Well most Protestants aren't listening to him or know who he is. I know who he is because I read and study politics and daily events.

I don't know where you're getting that from. I live in England and a lot of people are hearing about him. He's Ireland's first openly gay leader and he's being quite blunt about the DUP and Brexit, much to people's delight.

I find it hard to believe one religious denomination would have heard about him while others wouldn't have. It doesn't make sense.

Jim2007

I'm beginning to wonder if this border issue is going to be much bigger than we think if it's a hard BREXIT....

I was talking to a few retired U.K. expats last night who are starting to worry about how they will get to visit their grandchildren in the U.K., from their point of view:

Walking away without a deal would introduce issues in relation to air traffic and visa free travel for U.K. passport holders. It seems that most U.K. flights are governed by EU agreements, agreements the U.K. will no longer be a party to and this needs to be sorted out by autumn 2018 not 2019.

The U.K. is not a member of Schengen and it does not have a visa free agreement. It will no longer be a member of the EU, so they will no longer be able to avail of the EU/EEA/CH travel rules either. Is there another option or will they need to apply for Schengen visas like all other third countries?

Their plan is to fly to Dublin or Cork, then train and ferry, always assuming they have no passport issues doing that... fine but they will not be the only ones using Ireland as a gateway to the U.K. Hoards of U.K. citizens using Ireland as a gateway would put crazy pressure on Irish airports etc....

Jim2007

A Little Pony wrote: »

Well most Protestants aren't listening to him or know who he is. I know who he is because I read and study politics and daily events.

And what? You think unionists don't study politics and daily events, especially when it's about their country? Sounds like you need to get out more

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

Well most Protestants aren't listening to him or know who he is. I know who he is because I read and study politics and daily events.

I love this fall back when under pressure.

'We have our fingers in our ears and we are not listening'.

How many DUP and UUP TUP politicians immediately jumped to rant when Leo spoke?

paul2013

A Little Pony wrote: »

Makes no sense to me. Northern Ireland will remain within the United Kingdom because that is what the majority of the population want. Only way that changes is if it changes obviously. But one county has such power as you describe, I don't understand that point.

What I'm saying is that Antrim is where all the prediction polls of a United Ireland are carried out by polling companies. As I lived in all of the 6 counties before returning to the South of Ireland and no one ever came knocking on my door at the weekend while I lived in Armagh, Derry, Down, Fermanagh or Tyrone. It was every weekend in Antrim they came knocking as this is where most Unionists live and yes I was living in the middle of the unionist community who predominantly supported the Union while I supported the Irish.

The Unionists knew I supported the Irish and we got along and I shook hands with them and my front door was not blown up for supporting who I supported.

I brought the unionists to Irish people in Belfast and we all had drinks at the pub and the next day do you know what the unionists said to me , "Thank you" you Irish are very funny and we wish these walls would come down. We can get along with each other if if the walls were removed.

Junkyard Tom

A Little Pony wrote: »

Well most Protestants aren't listening to him or know who he is.

Wishing it was true doesn't make it so. I'd say the vast majority of Protestants, you know, the ones who have TV's and radios, would be well aware of Varadkar and what he's been saying.

murphaph

Yeah let's not play silly beggars. Very few people in Northern Ireland do not know who the Taoiseach of the day is.

It's kind of childish to pretend otherwise.