Right of way

Borderfox

Looking for information regarding the closure of a road leading to my home, I had asked to see the paperwork regarding the closure of the road but the company (doing remedial water work, but the road was fully functioning)wouldn't show it and would not let me proceed.

In future what do I need to ask for regarding the closure of a road leading to where I live

Thanks

coylemj

Does this really have anything to do with the right of way? If it was a public road and an Irish Water truck blocked it while doing remedial works, wouldn't you be the same situation?

Victor

Is this your sole access to the property?

nuac

Mod
Open for general discussion, but keeping to the rule against legal advice

Carawaystick

If they(a private entity-- council would be different) can't provide paperwork, or a solid reference to paperwork, i'd just keep walking until either you were stopped physically, or the gardaí were called to stop you. In the first stopping case, I'd call the gards to report assault.

GM228

Is there any obligation to actually show paperwork other than the fact a road closure should be advertised in the papers beforehand etc?

coylemj

Carawaystick wrote: »

If they(a private entity-- council would be different) can't provide paperwork, or a solid reference to paperwork, i'd just keep walking until either you were stopped physically, or the gardaere called to stop you. In the first stopping case, I'd call the gards to report assault.

I think the OP is referring to vehicular access to his home, I don't think the workmen or their vehicles are physically preventing him from walking to his house. That only happens when there's a major emergency like fire or chemical spill.

Unless I'm misreading this, OPs' problem is that the road is blocked and he can't drive his car up to his house.

Marcusm

GM228 wrote: »

Is there any obligation to actually show paperwork other than the fact a road closure should be advertised in the papers beforehand etc?

Is there any obligation to obey their purported instruction not to use the road if they cannot show their entitlement to close it?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

coylemj

It's now 48 hours since the OP posted his one and only post. Either he's stuck in a refugee camp with no wi-fi or he's back home and has lost interest in the thread. If he had no access at all to his house, we would have heard about it on the news. This sounds like emergency repairs to a water main which resulted in a temporary road closure but which has now been sorted.

Next time I meet a road closure, I'll remember the advice here and ask the workmen for paperwork, taking care to park my car about 50m away from them before I do.

Borderfox

They were private contractors working on behalf of Irish water and they were to work through the night. The road was passable but they had blocked it with cones and a lorry.

No paperwork was coming from the head guy so I called the Gardai who unsurprisingly around Meath couldn't be bothered to attend.

Moved cones myself and directed them to remove their machinery/vans from private property. They finished work about 4am and I started work at 6am so no sleep for me.

What I was looking for was what if any paperwork is needed from the county council to effectively close a road

coylemj

Borderfox wrote: »

Moved cones myself and directed them to remove their machinery/vans from private property.

You mentioned 'right of way' in the thread title which suggests that you do not own the road so how can you legally 'direct' someone to remove an obstruction from private property that's owned by someone else?

Gravelly

coylemj wrote: »

It's now 48 hours since the OP posted his one and only post. Either he's stuck in a refugee camp with no wi-fi or he's back home and has lost interest in the thread. If he had no access at all to his house, we would have heard about it on the news. This sounds like emergency repairs to a water main which resulted in a temporary road closure but which has now been sorted.

Next time I meet a road closure, I'll remember the advice here and ask the workmen for paperwork, taking care to park my car about 50m away from them before I do.

Maybe he fell into the big hole the bad men dug in his drive. Someone should check.

coylemj

Gravelly wrote: »

Maybe he fell into the big hole the bad men dug in his drive. Someone should check.

See post #11.

Gravelly

coylemj wrote: »

See post #11.

Damn. I had concocted a really cool scenario in my head where he got trapped in a big hole and had to build a rainwater catching device out of traffic cones and warning tape.

fepper

coylemj wrote: »

You mentioned 'right of way' in the thread title which suggests that you do not own the road so how can you legally 'direct' someone to remove an obstruction from private property that's owned by someone else?

They'd be like the esb who can access your land to fix part of their network as its a essential service as water is,maybe same rules,THEIR RULES

Carawaystick

coylemj wrote: »

I think the OP is referring to vehicular access to his home, I don't think the workmen or their vehicles are physically preventing him from walking to his house. That only happens when there's a major emergency like fire or chemical spill.

Unless I'm misreading this, OPs' problem is that the road is blocked and he can't drive his car up to his house.

Sher just leave the hazards on blocking the IW lads and walk home....

Borderfox

coylemj wrote: »

You mentioned 'right of way' in the thread title which suggests that you do not own the road so how can you legally 'direct' someone to remove an obstruction from private property that's owned by someone else?

The road was blocked that public property and the vans were parked on private property controlled by myself

Maybe a simpler question might be if a car rally is being held on public roads and that road is closed, what paperwork do the people at the road closure need to show to prove its legitimate?

fepper

Don't the local council publish it in local paper that such a road will be closed say from 10am to 5pm and the organisers of rally call door to door with leaflets

Peregrinus

Borderfox wrote: »

Maybe a simpler question might be if a car rally is being held on public roads and that road is closed, what paperwork do the people at the road closure need to show to prove its legitimate?

They don't need to show any. Road closure orders are published in advance in local newspapers, are available for inspection at local government offices and (often) are available on the website of the local government concerned, plus they are notified to the local guards, but so far as I know there's no legislative requirement to have a copy of the road closure order available for inspection at the site of the closure itself.

Plus, of course, there's provision for closure of roads without an order in cases of urgency. Obviously in those cases there's also no requirement to have any paperwork at the site of the closure. There is no paperwork to show. All that is required is notification from the local government to the guards; that could be a phone call.

If a road is closed for a sports event (rather than, say, works on a water main) the event organisers will normally take further steps to notify people who have properties on the road, by writing to them or whatever. But they do this because it's in their interests to do so, to preserve their reputation and community goodwill towards the event, not because there is any legal requirement.

http://www.meath.ie/CountyCouncil/Roads/RoadNoticesInformation/
Anything on here?

Borderfox

Peregrinus wrote: »

They don't need to show any. Road closure orders are published in advance in local newspapers, are available for inspection at local government offices and (often) are available on the website of the local government concerned, plus they are notified to the local guards, but so far as I know there's no legislative requirement to have a copy of the road closure order available for inspection at the site of the closure itself.

Plus, of course, there's provision for closure of roads without an order in cases of urgency. Obviously in those cases there's also no requirement to have any paperwork at the site of the closure. There is no paperwork to show. All that is required is notification from the local government to the guards; that could be a phone call.

If a road is closed for a sports event (rather than, say, works on a water main) the event organisers will normally take further steps to notify people who have properties on the road, by writing to them or whatever. But they do this because it's in their interests to do so, to preserve their reputation and community goodwill towards the event, not because there is any legal requirement.

That's the clarification I was looking for, thanks

coylemj

fepper wrote: »

Don't the local council publish it in local paper that such a road will be closed say from 10am to 5pm and the organisers of rally call door to door with leaflets

+1 And on the day they will put straw bales across driveways and farm gates - with the consent of the home owner/farmer.

coylemj

Deleted User wrote: »

http://www.meath.ie/CountyCouncil/Roads/RoadNoticesInformation/
Anything on here?

The effective dates are different, it's just a spate of roadworks in various parts of the county but the notices were all published on the same date.

Nothing to see here, go back to your homes.