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Paying for people to write college essay on adverts... illegal?

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    #2
    Sixtoes
    Registered Users Posts: 658 ✭✭✭Sixtoes


    vard wrote: »
    I stumbled upon this ad. Surely it's not only against Adverts.ie rules, but also illegal? Not to mention, immoral.

    http://www.adverts.ie/other-business-office/essay-writers/13436898?notification=3b977af1aab6fb2e74525eb223aec40a-1501388361&utm_campaign=AdWatchCommented&utm_medium=link&utm_source=email

    This sort of cheating is disgusting in my opinion. I'm sure plenty think it's no big deal because it happens all the time, but it belittles university as an institution and it's unfair to others.

    How widespread is this sort of cheating? And it is cheating... right?

    She's a bit silly using an account with her name and photo!


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    #3
    laotg
    Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭laotg


    Illegal? What law is it breaking?


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    #4
    darragh o meara
    Registered Users Posts: 3,229 ✭✭✭darragh o meara


    vard wrote: »
    I stumbled upon this ad. Surely it's not only against Adverts.ie rules, but also illegal? Not to mention, immoral.

    http://www.adverts.ie/other-business-office/essay-writers/13436898?notification=3b977af1aab6fb2e74525eb223aec40a-1501388361&utm_campaign=AdWatchCommented&utm_medium=link&utm_source=email

    This sort of cheating is disgusting in my opinion. I'm sure plenty think it's no big deal because it happens all the time, but it belittles university as an institution and it's unfair to others.

    How widespread is this sort of cheating? And it is cheating... right?

    How widespread is it?? It's rampant... In college a few years back while writing my thesis I got it professionally evaluated and proof read before submission, while using these services I was offered a fully researched Masters Thesis with summarised notes,reports and presentations for 8 grand.. A PHD was 16 grand.. these thesis were guaranteed to pass turn it in reuirements etc.

    In my opinion it makes a mockery of the whole system but the people who use these type of things usually get found out in the end. You either know it or you don't.

    A few lads in my course used a similar service for getting reports and assignments done but were caught out when a common mistake in the referencing was spotted on a few assignments.


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    #5
    harr
    Registered Users Posts: 4,485 ✭✭✭harr


    vard wrote: »
    I stumbled upon this ad. Surely it's not only against Adverts.ie rules, but also illegal? Not to mention, immoral.

    http://www.adverts.ie/other-business-office/essay-writers/13436898?notification=3b977af1aab6fb2e74525eb223aec40a-1501388361&utm_campaign=AdWatchCommented&utm_medium=link&utm_source=email

    This sort of cheating is disgusting in my opinion. I'm sure plenty think it's no big deal because it happens all the time, but it belittles university as an institution and it's unfair to others.

    How widespread is this sort of cheating? And it is cheating... right?

    Not sure it's against adverts rules as she is only looking for someone to do it and not offering the service..it's definitely immoral and is definitely cheating plus the lady in the add has used her name and photograph so she is asking for trouble.
    Unfortunately this kind of stuff regularly happens not sure on how frequently but I know of a man who used the services of someone in the UK to do his papers regularly so I am pretty sure it's common enough.


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    #6
    vard
    Registered Users Posts: 537 ✭✭✭vard


    What I'm thinking is that she's doing it for her Son. Obviously afraid he's going to flunk it. Reckon she looks a little old to be in university. And it's daft as **** to use your own name and picture


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    #7
    Tom Dunne
    Registered Users Posts: 23,212 ✭✭✭✭Tom Dunne


    This kind of thing always brings a smile to my face.

    Sure, you might get one essay written and you might get a pass (who says the essay writer is actually any good?), but it will become apparent to the marker that the tone, language and flow of the essay is vastly different to work the student would have submitted previously, or in other subjects. Plus, what if the student, whom I would guess is struggling, suddenly gets an A in one subject, while is getting Cs and Ds in others? That will raise alarms bells too.

    Aside from the moral and ethical issues, it's a false economy. And of course if (and when) the student gets found out, the repercussions are immense and potentially career limiting.


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    #8
    vard
    Registered Users Posts: 537 ✭✭✭vard


    Well, someone commented advising her to remove it because she was using her own name etc. Seems she got the message ;)


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    #9
    begbysback
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭begbysback


    I don't believe there is any moral issue here with regards to asking someone to construct one, unless it is handed in as your own work - it could be used for research similar to buying a book


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    #10
    vard
    Registered Users Posts: 537 ✭✭✭vard


    begbysback wrote: »
    I don't believe there is any moral issue here with regards to asking someone to construct one, unless it is handed in as your own work - it could be used for research similar to buying a book

    Ad was:

    "need someone to write 7000 word essay for college. Assignment due in 3 weeks"

    Pretty sure it sounds like she was looking for exactly that.


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    #11
    Tom Dunne
    Registered Users Posts: 23,212 ✭✭✭✭Tom Dunne


    begbysback wrote: »
    I don't believe there is any moral issue here with regards to asking someone to construct one, unless it is handed in as your own work - it could be used for research similar to buying a book

    Yes, because a person is going to put an advert on a website, looking for someone to "construct" an essay, offering payment, and the student is not going to present it as their own? Seriously?

    The only way to do this as you are suggesting, is to quote the actual author, with their name and the publication in which the "construction" appears. Neither of which is going to happen as (a) I am sure the author doesn't want their name associated (bad for business) and (b) it is not actually published and therefore not a reliable source. Look up Harvard referencing, or PSA referencing for more information on how to cite during research.

    And given the time of year, it suggests that the essay is for a student who is repeating a subject, further suggesting that they are struggling and looking for somebody to write it for them. If they failed the subject in May, and suddenly get an A over the summer, alarm bells will ring.


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    #12
    5rtytry56
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,828 ✭✭✭5rtytry56


    Concur that is essay is for submission as repeat. I personally encountered one such individual a long long time ago. They ended up spending a serious amount of study time in a third year in a course helping to run a certain student society.
    Deliberately distanced myself as much as I could at the end of the college year.


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    #13
    Mr.H
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,861 ✭✭✭Mr.H


    laotg wrote:
    Illegal? What law is it breaking?


    Copywriter and fraud


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    #14
    Owryan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭Owryan


    I go to a relatively small college and it's common enough, paying people to write an essay.

    That, or using websites that you copy text into, for example off another website, and it regurgitates it into something you paste into your essay.

    Not sure how willing some colleges are about tackling it tho.


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    #15
    Tom Dunne
    Registered Users Posts: 23,212 ✭✭✭✭Tom Dunne


    Mr.H wrote: »
    Copywriter and fraud

    Doesn't something have to be published for it to be subject to copyright laws?

    And what kind of fraud? I am no legal expert, but isn't fraud, in a legal sense, usually to do with the financial end of things?

    I am fairly sure no laws are being broken. Though I would love to be proved wrong.


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    #16
    begbysback
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭begbysback


    Mr.H wrote: »
    Copywriter and fraud

    I don't think it is breaking copyright as the creator of the essay is giving permission to use it.

    Again - it's only fraud if it is submitted as "ones own work"


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    #17
    SwD
    Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭SwD


    Mr.H wrote: »
    Copywriter and fraud

    I'm not sure it is.

    Its not like the work has already been published.

    If she can't manage a college assignment now, her true colors will shine when she finally gets into the workplace. What goes around...


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    #18
    begbysback
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭begbysback


    SwD wrote: »
    I'm not sure it is.

    Its not like the work has already been published.

    If she can't manage a college assignment now, her true colors will shine when she finally gets into the workplace. What goes around...

    Such a judgement would require an entire understanding of the woman's current circumstances, which I'm pretty sure you don't have.


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    #19
    SwD
    Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭SwD


    begbysback wrote: »
    Such a judgement would require an entire understanding of the woman's current circumstances, which I'm pretty sure you don't have.

    Is there a particular set of circumstances which would justify getting someone to do the work you are supposed to do?

    Most universities offer extensions/deferrals for extenuating circumstances.


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    #20
    begbysback
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭begbysback


    SwD wrote: »
    Is there a particular set of circumstances which would justify getting someone to do the work you are supposed to do?

    Most universities offer extensions/deferrals for extenuating circumstances.

    When people are under pressure they can make bad decisions - not knowing the circumstances here kind of makes it difficult to assess this woman's future career.


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    #21
    SwD
    Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭SwD


    begbysback wrote: »
    When people are under pressure they can make bad decisions - not knowing the circumstances here kind of makes it difficult to assess this woman's future career.

    I can understand that people make bad decisions under pressure.

    But she has three weeks to go.

    She has the option to get down and grit it out with a few cans of red bull, like the majority of students under pressure, or she can submit an appeal for extenuating circumstances.

    The fact that she has not opted for either of those suggests, to me anyway, that she is abusing a system for her benefit. Such abuse will not succeed in the workplace.


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    #22
    Tom Dunne
    Registered Users Posts: 23,212 ✭✭✭✭Tom Dunne


    SwD wrote: »
    I can understand that people make bad decisions under pressure.

    But she has three weeks to go.

    She has the option to get down and grit it out with a few cans of red bull, like the majority of students under pressure, or she can submit an appeal for extenuating circumstances.

    The fact that she has not opted for either of those suggests, to me anyway, that she is abusing a system for her benefit. Such abuse will not succeed in the workplace.

    And I would add to that, that I don't believe any lecturer would give three weeks to write a 7000 word essay. Clearly there are many factors at play here.

    But in my humble opinion, it does not bode well for the future.


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    #23
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #24
    begbysback
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭begbysback


    Is "procuring the ideas of others" any different to purchasing a book?


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    #25
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    begbysback wrote: »
    Is "procuring the ideas of others" any different to purchasing a book?

    Most people purchasing books wouldn't intend to scribble out the authors name and present the book as their own work.


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    #26
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #27
    Mr.H
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,861 ✭✭✭Mr.H


    I don't know if it would be illegal from a prosecution point of view. My suggestion of fraud and copywrite is merely as suggestion. I don't know if it would be illegal in that sense.

    I do however know for a fact that if a person is caught plagiarising (with or without permission) then they are immediately expelled and banned from attending any fetac courses for 5 years (although I have been told its actually 10 but this could just mean the 5 years plus the amount of time to complete a course after that).

    There is plenty of software available to check students work for plagiarism. Including software that detects commonly used words in a student's overall work.

    So easy to be caught


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    #28
    begbysback
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭begbysback


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.
    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.


    Student A purchases a book, uses it for research purposes, and cites it appropriately in her sources.

    Student B purchases a 7,000-word essay researched and written by someone else, and uses it for research purposes


    Seems your post makes no distinction for the sample above - both student A and B are guilty

    Everyone knows submitting the essay as your own is plagiarism, but procuring the work or ideas of others seems to be ambiguous.

    The context of the op is advertising for the "procurement of the work, ideas of another" - thats it, no more. Then people assume it is for the purpose of submitting as their own, understandable and likely, but uncertain - then the future of this person is assessed based on this one advertisement, again understandable but uncertain.

    "I never let my schooling interfere with my education" - begbysback


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    #29
    Tom Dunne
    Registered Users Posts: 23,212 ✭✭✭✭Tom Dunne


    Mr.H wrote: »
    I don't know if it would be illegal from a prosecution point of view. My suggestion of fraud and copywrite is merely as suggestion. I don't know if it would be illegal in that sense.

    No, it would not be illegal, but it would contravene institutional regulations.
    Mr.H wrote: »
    I do however know for a fact that if a person is caught plagiarising (with or without permission) then they are immediately expelled and banned from attending any fetac courses for 5 years (although I have been told its actually 10 but this could just mean the 5 years plus the amount of time to complete a course after that).

    With respect, I find this extremely difficult to accept. Do you have any links to such regulations (noting that FETAC has been subsumed into QQI for the past number of years). Again, I would be very happy to be proved wrong.

    And I might add that the very notion of plagiarizing with permission suggests a particular misunderstanding of the term. Utilising other's work and referencing it appropriately is acceptable. Presenting other's work as your own is plagiarism.
    Mr.H wrote: »
    There is plenty of software available to check students work for plagiarism. Including software that detects commonly used words in a student's overall work.

    So easy to be caught

    Sometimes you don't need software to know when a student is being dishonest. Sometimes good old fashioned human instinct is your best bet. It is surprisingly easy to tell when work is not a students' own.


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    #30
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,979 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    I can't find the story but there was a news item of 14 students from UCC who had there final year projects/thesis pulled due to issues of plagiarism. Now they were of all the same course and it was on coding


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    #31
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,783 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    begbysback wrote: »
    Student A purchases a book, uses it for research purposes, and cites it appropriately in her sources.

    Student B purchases a 7,000-word essay researched and written by someone else, and uses it for research purposes


    Seems your post makes no distinction for the sample above - both student A and B are guilty

    Everyone knows submitting the essay as your own is plagiarism, but procuring the work or ideas of others seems to be ambiguous.

    The context of the op is advertising for the "procurement of the work, ideas of another" - thats it, no more. Then people assume it is for the purpose of submitting as their own, understandable and likely, but uncertain - then the future of this person is assessed based on this one advertisement, again understandable but uncertain.

    "I never let my schooling interfere with my education" - begbysback
    Citing someone's book is not procurment, you are not getting them to write the book just so you can cite it. And in the case of this woman what she is doing is still plagiarism if she doesn't cite the person who wrote the essay, even if she just uses it for 'research purposes'


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