Season 7 Episode 4 "The Spoils of War" - "Non book readers"

EagererBeaver

flazio wrote: »

As we are non book readers how can we tell?

What's that got to do with it? The quality of the writing is the quality of the writing. Nothing to do with story or plot.

irishfeen

Don't really get everyone questioning timelines condensed and the quality of dialogue in this season... for me it's probably the most enjoyable season yet of GOT.

Sit back ladies and gentlemen and enjoy these last 2 seasons - GOT like The Sopranos and Breaking Bad is in the process of changing Television. The big screen has been brought to the small screen in an epic fashion!

turnikett1

EagererBeaver wrote: »

What? My "there isn't" was a response to a question about differences between the leaked and broadcast episodes.

Quoted the wrong post, my bad

Anyway, episode 5 trailer is on Youtube now. Does anyone think we'll see another battle so soon?

Adamocovic

turnikett1 wrote: »

Quoted the wrong post, my bad

Anyway, episode 5 trailer is on Youtube now. Does anyone think we'll see another battle so soon?

Probably a break this episode and one more.

You can see they are trying to hurry everything along to finish up the show. Some things would have been drawn out a little longer. With so much fighting presumably to do I can imagine it's going to happen quite fast now.

I'm guessing no real battle until episode 6/7 but plenty of mini fighting scenes in between!

Evade

Great episode. Those were some very well trained horses to charge a shield wall and not turn back.

Was that a hint at a marriage proposal in the dragonglass cave?

Cersei's grain going up in smoke should shake things up a bit.

Qyburn's great invention wasn't the thousand year old ballista after all, but the mount. It's very nimble considering how much it has to weigh.

Does Danaerys not know the fleet at Casterly Rock has been attacked yet?

flazio

EagererBeaver wrote: »

What's that got to do with it? The quality of the writing is the quality of the writing. Nothing to do with story or plot.

How are we non book readers supposed to tell if a perceived dip in writing quality is because the writing is not drawn from the book if we haven't read it. For all we know there might have been a dip in quality in GRRM's book writing, we simply know as much as Jon Snow.

Is this worse quality then what's gone before, absolutely not.

JoeyJJ

What an episode.

Bronn scene when the gold flew was good showed he isn't all about the gold most of the castle talk was in jest.

Need to watch again see what littlefinger is up to one thing I noticed one scene he lingered on screen and there was sound of a possible raven.


Tyrion Jamie and Bronn situation should be interesting need to watch the preview to next week yet.

What is Aria gonna do from winterfell? At least she showed she is no child any more and not be looked down on like she was in earlier series by her siblings

flazio

JoeyJJ wrote: »

What is Aria gonna do from winterfell? At least she showed she is no child any more and not be looked down on like she was in earlier series by her siblings

I very much doubt she's finished with her Kick the Bucket list just yet.

JoeyJJ

flazio wrote: »

I very much doubt she's finished with her Kick the Bucket list just yet.

I certainly hope not. She needs to get back on the road again

david75

Is littlefinger on her list?
DIdnt she overhear Him plotting against Ned (or Sansa?) few seasons back?

This is the first Episode i agree with the army teleportation complaints.

How did Danny get all 10k plus Dothraki to nearish KL / Highgarden.

Great Episode, i wonder who had the idea to find and slaughter the LANNISTER army

MugMugs

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

This is the first Episode i agree with the army teleportation complaints.

How did Danny get all 10k plus Dothraki to nearish KL / Highgarden.

Great Episode, i wonder who had the idea to find and slaughter the LANNISTER army

No real teleportation. She travelled to Kings Landing and met the returning Lanister Army. It's hardly beyond the realms of possibility.

lbj666

Drogon got a way worse dose of it in the fighting pits.

I hear ya about the writing but we are all most at full on war mode here and you could go back and compare to the writing of the war of the 5 kings but this time is different , the armies are bigger, fleets are meaner, theres dragons now. What tyrions ****s up are to show is that that game has changed since his days as hand of the king in Kings Landing, the tactics and scheming that brought such great writing back in previous seasons wont get anyone far now.

david75

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

This is the first Episode i agree with the army teleportation complaints.

How did Danny get all 10k plus Dothraki to nearish KL / Highgarden.

Great Episode, i wonder who had the idea to find and slaughter the LANNISTER army

It's the same device used in Star Wars.

how fast the millennium falcon travelling through hyperspace?

The speed of plot requirement.

Ping Chow Chi

Gru wrote: »

Jon: how many men do we have to fight them? 10 thousand? Less?
Sir Davos: fewer.

I chuckled so much at this!

Jesus Christ

So glad I didn't watch the leaked version too. That was unreal

OneOfThem Stumbled

J. Marston wrote: »

We've seen Arya practice with Needle throughout the series. Would make sense that she's seriously good with it by now.

But I'm not bothered about details like that because DRACARYS! Amazing battle scene.

Oh yeah, Brienne Arya fight scene was silly as hell, in so many ways. But forget about that - this episode was excellent.

After the sh*tfest that was last two seasons they have somehow managed to pull it back.

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

This is the first Episode i agree with the army teleportation complaints.

How did Danny get all 10k plus Dothraki to nearish KL / Highgarden.

There isn't even too much of a problem of magically teleporting armies in this episode, as the Dothraki were all cavalry based. We also haven't seen the Dothraki all season, so who knows: perhaps they were making their way to this region anyway? Would have made sense if Highgarden was as vulnerable as it turned out to be. Maybe I'm giving the writers too much credit.

PressRun wrote: »

Still struggling to understand how a primitive weapon like a ballista could inflict such damage on a dragon of that size. Like are we being led to believe that the beast could actually die from that shot?

I think a ballista could do that amount of damage to a dragon: the dragon's unarmoured and ballista can be used on stone structures.

A bit of script immunity for Bronn and Jamie, but that's fine in a series which gives its main characters such little immunity. Daenery's plan actually made sense this time (even not going with three dragons as that would have created too much collateral damage).

Not really sure how the Lannisters can come back from that though. They've lost their seat and presumably the bulk of their armed forces.

wp_rathead

Meera was brilliant in this episode, saying Bran died in that cave seems pretty accurate, but I suppose if you have so many memories it will be hard to remember your own personal ones
Name dropping Jojen, the direwolf and Hodor made me more upset than I expected

Did Sansa look hurt that Bran gave Ayra the Valeryan Dagger rather than her?
Bran quoting "Chaos is a ladder" to Littlefinger must have gave him the willie's too

The battle at the end was so intense- while I love the stuff with the Undead, it's very easy to be "good v bad"- in this battle the only person I wanted to die was Sam's dad and the Dothroki

EagererBeaver

flazio wrote: »

How are we non book readers supposed to tell if a perceived dip in writing quality is because the writing is not drawn from the book if we haven't read it. For all we know there might have been a dip in quality in GRRM's book writing, we simply know as much as Jon Snow.

Is this worse quality then what's gone before, absolutely not.

Because it's well known when there stopped being source material available. You compare what it was like before to what it was like afterwards and make a decision about whether you think it has dipped.

nix

Chaos is a ladder im predicting is something Littlefinger was told many years ago by someone important to him, or something he said himself and hes freaked Brann knows the phrase.

david75

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Because it's well known when there stopped being source material available. You compare what it was like before to what it was like afterwards and make a decision about whether you think it has dipped.

Hasn't Martin given them all the major plot lines and structure for the arcs contained within the show?
It's not like they're flying blind and making it up. Adapting books to scripts involves a complete rewrite anyways so it's not like they haven't been doing this since season one. They're really only writing the dialogue and the overall narrative and direction is already laid out for them, no?

EagererBeaver

david75 wrote: »

Hasn't Martin given them all the major plot lines and structure for the arcs contained within the show?
It's not like they're flying blind and making it up. Adapting books to scripts involves a complete rewrite anyways so it's not like they haven't been doing this since season one. They're really only writing the dialogue and the overall narrative and direction is already laid out for them, no?

The framework and outline of a story is different from writing a script.

Roar

For a few seconds just before the battle started, I thought the white walkers were on their way - just the way the Big cloud hung in the sky.

Anyway, amazing stuff. Once the episode ended I went back and watched the battle again straight away.

No way Jaime is dead. He'll be rescued.

Tigger

nix wrote: »

Chaos is a ladder im predicting is something Littlefinger was told many years ago by someone important to him, or something he said himself and hes freaked Brann knows the phrase.

It's from a previous episode

mojesius

Great episode. My heart was in my mouth watching that battle scene. I was praying bronn wouldn't kill the dragon or that danarys would see sense and fly away sooner.

Great seeing arya back at winterfell!

Alanhooly

nix wrote:

Chaos is a ladder im predicting is something Littlefinger was told many years ago by someone important to him, or something he said himself and hes freaked Brann knows the phrase.

He said it to Varys in season 1

SimonTemplar

I agree about Jaime surviving. If they wanted him dead in this episode, he would have been toasted by Drogon. Tyrion saying "flee you ****ing idiot" from his vantage point really added to the intensity of that moment.

That final battle was outstanding. Unlike Battle of the Bastards or Jon vs Whitewalkers, there was no clear good vs evil dynamic. Cersei is the true villian, but Jaime is a far too complex character to be a bad guy simply due to his associated with her. His arc throughout the series has been very interesting given he went from crippling the main character's son in the very first episode to someone most people root for despite technically being on the villain's side. Not to mention fan favourite Bronn.

For such an important character, sinking to the bottom of the water isn't a strong enough death. He'll be back.

As others have speculated, I'd love to see him as prisoner in Dragonstone as it allows for great potential scenes with Dany and Tyrion. Personally, I'd like to see Tyrion convince Jaime that Cersei isn't fit to rule and join his cause. We'll see...

PressRun

JoeyJJ wrote: »

What is Aria gonna do from winterfell? At least she showed she is no child any more and not be looked down on like she was in earlier series by her siblings

She's going to kill Littlefinger with his own dagger. That's why Bran gave it to her, imo. He knows she's the one to do it.

PTH2009

So did the Gold get caught in the crossfire ???

Had a feeling that character was going to meet there demise very soon but we just have too wait and see. Does she knw what he done to her dad ??

That was AMAZING! My stomach was in knots watching the battle scene.

Avatar MIA

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

Not really sure how the Lannisters can come back from that though. They've lost their seat and presumably the bulk of their armed forces.

Just before the Dragon attack there was a narrative about how spread out their line was, so I think this was only the rear guard to protect the broken down/slowed wagon secton

EagererBeaver wrote: »

The framework and outline of a story is different from writing a script.

And I wouldn't be at all surprised if the latter books when finally written have a different ending to the TV series :eek:

EagererBeaver

PTH2009 wrote: »

So did the Gold get caught in the crossfire ???

Had a feeling that character was going to meet there demise very soon but we just have too wait and see. Does she knw what he done to her dad ??

The gold is in King's Landing. Tarly told Jaime that it was safely through the gates.

She knows the story of her father's death.

hattoncracker

pah wrote: »

I'm struggling a bit with Aryas skill level.

She barely beat the waif last season but now she's a fully fledged 16 yr old ninja assassin. Deflecting heavy blows from Brianne with needle. A stretch too far imo.

The Waif would have been able to take Brienne no problem I would imagine. The faceless men are taught how to move and fight without armour, which would beat the brute force of Brienne ten times over even with her sword skills.

Avatar MIA

Deleted User wrote: »

That was AMAZING! My stomach was in knots watching the battle scene.

The CGI was as good as it gets, and Bronn's continuous scene during the battle was cinema quality.

uncle_sam_ie

XsApollo wrote: »

I thought when Sansa asked Arya who else was on her list , that she was wondering was she on it herself.
Seems nobody else has thought that tho,
But it's the the first thing I thought by the way she asked.

Sansa thought her little sister's list was a bit of joke until she saw Arya's spar with Brienne. Sansa's not on her list. She is part of Arya's wolfpack. Bran, Sansa and now Arya. Littlefinger is in a dangerous place now. I'd say he's made onto Arya's list.

CMOTDibbler

Just for the teleportation freaks

Dragonstone is about 300 miles from Kings Landing. But they could have shipped the Dothraki to any point on the mainland (as Tyrion was suggesting) and since we know that the gold was already through the gates of Kings Landing, the food wagons and their escort couldn't have been too far behind.

So a couple of days on ships and another couple of days ride at the most.

Penn

pah wrote: »

I'm struggling a bit with Aryas skill level.

She barely beat the waif last season but now she's a fully fledged 16 yr old ninja assassin. Deflecting heavy blows from Brianne with needle. A stretch too far imo.

The Waif, who was also a deadly assassin. Plus think about how long Arya was there for. Likely at least 2 years. She also learnt to defeat the Waif in the dark, plus she was injured herself, plus the Waif had more training than her.

We saw f*ck all of Arya's training in Bravos, but there was a reason she was chosen for the training in the first place. She has a natural talent and ability, only made stronger by her training.

As for deflecting heavy blows from Brienne, I think it's also a combination of movement and Brienne pulling her own sword back upon a hit to defend from a next blow. I wouldn't see it as being something completely unrealistic.

brevity

Holy **** that was epic.

uncle_sam_ie

Penn wrote: »

The Waif, who was also a deadly assassin. Plus think about how long Arya was there for. Likely at least 2 years. She also learnt to defeat the Waif in the dark, plus she was injured herself, plus the Waif had more training than her.

We saw f*ck all of Arya's training in Bravos, but there was a reason she was chosen for the training in the first place. She has a natural talent and ability, only made stronger by her training.

As for deflecting heavy blows from Brienne, I think it's also a combination of movement and Brienne pulling her own sword back upon a hit to defend from a next blow. I wouldn't see it as being something completely unrealistic.

I loved Arya spar with Brienne. From Syrio Forel Arya learned sword fighting, the waif how to dodge and the hound the facts about armour and big F***ing swords. Noticed how every hit she made on Brienne's week spots, neck, hand, leg. She used all those skills in that fight.

lazybones32

Thought meera would stay in the show longer but there you go.
Jaime and bronn both escaping dragonfire by rolling to the side is a cop-out imo. That pis*ed me off. That said, killing off so many main characters with another 10 hours of showtime left might mean the end of high-profile deaths for a while.

Cantona's Collars

"Who taught you to fight"?

" No one ".

A great answer by Arya.

Lucas Hood

Just been talking to a mate who does VFX for the show.

Says they worked for 3 months on this episode.

Richard Hillman

I reckon Jamie survives, gets taken prisoner and Tyrion returns the favour of helping him escape.


Its also becoming quite obvious that Danerys and Jon Snow can only resolve the Bend the knee issue by marrying each other. But what shall Bran Stark make of it???

Penn

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Its also becoming quite obvious that Danerys and Jon Snow can only resolve the Bend the knee issue by marrying each other. But what shall Bran Stark make of it???

"I saw you having sex with your aunt... You looked beautiful that night..."

J. Marston

Some nice nods to Robert in that episode...

"Only a fool would meet the Dothraki in an open field."

"They never tell ya how they all shít themselves. They don't put that part in the songs."

"He came running at me, this dumb highborn lad, thinking he could end the rebellion with a single swing of his sword."

Penn

J. Marston wrote: »

Some nice nods to Robert in that episode...

"Only a fool would meet the Dothraki in an open field."

"They never tell ya how they all shít themselves. They don't put that part in the songs."

"He came running at me, this dumb highborn lad, thinking he could end the rebellion with a single swing of his sword."

Throwbacks to season 1 all over the place. Arya being stopped at the gates just like she was at King's Landing. Littlefinger's dagger coming back into play. First time we properly see Arya fighting with Needle like how she was taught with Syrio Forel. Symbols on the walls in the cave like how the White Walkers left body parts in the very first scene of the show.

It's all coming together.

Zaph

wp_rathead wrote: »

in this battle the only person I wanted to die was Sam's dad and the Dothroki

I want to see more Dothraki, not less of them. They're proper mad bastard berserkers and they haven't had a good fight for ages, so it was fun watching them let off some steam. Them armed with dragonglass weapons charging at masses of White Walkers would be epic.

hairyslug

That gave me the warm gooey feeling im used to getting from GOT

Venom

uncle_sam_ie wrote: »

I loved Arya spar with Brienne. From Syrio Forel Arya learned sword fighting, the waif how to dodge and the hound the facts about armour and big F***ing swords. Noticed how every hit she made on Brienne's week spots, neck, hand, leg. She used all those skills in that fight.

Arya also has a grin on her face the entire fight which indicates she was taking it easy on Brienne.

jonon9

I have to say I was rooting for Jamie, I just find his character more likable than Dannys. I think Jamie will be a very important player later in the storyline.