Season 7 Episode 4 "The Spoils of War" - "Book readers"

Dave_The_Sheep

Likewise, if Sansa had been in Arya's position, she's also have been killed (after some nasty stuff) pretty much straight away.

She's grown sure, but she's no Arya, who has thrived in the wild (much like her direwolf). Sansa on the other hand got her one killed (something I can't forgive - and yes I know these are fictional characters).

Digital Solitude

How much of Sansa's character is based off a young Cersei? Its covered early on that Cersei was all lovely dovey with Robert and thinking they'd have a great time as King and Queen, much like Sansa and Joffrey. And in both cases, they were wrong and ended up with terrible husbands.

They've since learned to play the game, outlived their husbands through terrible and abusive marriages and now Cersei rules the south, and Sansa the north, along with Jon of course but even still.

Kunkka

Digital Solitude wrote: »

How much of Sansa's character is based off a young Cersei? Its covered early on that Cersei was all lovely dovey with Robert and thinking they'd have a great time as King and Queen, much like Sansa and Joffrey. And in both cases, they were wrong and ended up with terrible husbands.

They've since learned to play the game, outlived their husbands through terrible and abusive marriages and now Cersei rules the south, and Sansa the north, along with Jon of course but even still.

I agree, I think Sansa is turning into Cersei. Sansa admires her in some sort of way too.

wp_rathead

Digital Solitude wrote: »

How much of Sansa's character is based off a young Cersei? Its covered early on that Cersei was all lovely dovey with Robert and thinking they'd have a great time as King and Queen, much like Sansa and Joffrey. And in both cases, they were wrong and ended up with terrible husbands.

They've since learned to play the game, outlived their husbands through terrible and abusive marriages and now Cersei rules the south, and Sansa the north, along with Jon of course but even still.

I dunno, they showed Young Cersei in the flash back with the Witch and the Prophecy and she was a bit a thundercnut even then (threatening to gauge out the witches eyes)
But there are undoubtedly parralels to their story's alright

J. Marston

There was a pic that showed Sansa wearing her like Cersei's pre-pixie cut a few episodes ago.

Although that might be just be a common Westeros noblewoman's style but the show is usually very good with those little details so I'd say it's deliberate.

Dave_The_Sheep

On a completely unrelated note, did anyone else listen to the "Your people can't fight" line and think "You arrogant prick, I really hope the Dothraki get ****ed up at some point".

They caught a tired and outnumbered rearguard and massacred them due to having a f*cking dragon on hand to break their lines ... and then think they're hot sh*t?

Hope the WW mess their sh*t up.

Digital Solitude

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

On a completely unrelated note, did anyone else listen to the "Your people can't fight" line and think "You arrogant prick, I really hope the Dothraki get ****ed up at some point".

They caught a tired and outnumbered rearguard and massacred them due to having a f*cking dragon on hand to break their lines ... and then think they're hot sh*t?

Hope the WW mess their sh*t up.

I can't imagine it was too stinging an insult, Tyrion doesn't speak Dothraki

I don't like any of Danys Bloodriders though, Drogo's were cooler

wp_rathead

Digital Solitude wrote: »

I don't like any of Danys Bloodriders though, Drogo's were cooler

I know was feck all of them I left but we haven't really seen any of Drogos lads since they left Qarth.. they stay there?

y0ssar1an22

there is tension between sansa and jon, she seemed jealous of arya when watching her train, she appeared freaked out/jealous/annoyed with bran. all this is building up to her making a power play at winterfell, in cahoots with littlefinger.

i hope she gets got soon

Gbear

Digital Solitude wrote: »

I don't like any of Danys Bloodriders though, Drogo's were cooler

They killed off all of Dany's.

Most of them are still alive in Mereen in the books.

Do any of the current lot have names?

Dave_The_Sheep

Digital Solitude wrote: »

I can't imagine it was too stinging an insult, Tyrion doesn't speak Dothraki

Oh I know that.

I still know he's an arrogant bellend though.

marcus001

Digital Solitude wrote: »

I can't imagine it was too stinging an insult, Tyrion doesn't speak Dothraki

I wouldn't give the writers that much credit tbh.

I think the intended it to be heard and even understood by Tyrion even though there's no suggestion he can speak Dothraki.

The scene seems to be designed to set up Tyrion for a betrayal of Dany, and seeing Lannister men burning alive in person and them being insulted as they burned is probably going to have an effect on him.

golfball37

wp_rathead wrote: »

I know was feck all of them I left but we haven't really seen any of Drogos lads since they left Qarth.. they stay there?

They were all massacred by warlocks

marcus001

marcus001 wrote: »

I wouldn't give the writers that much credit tbh.

I think the intended it to be heard and even understood by Tyrion even though there's no suggestion he can speak Dothraki.

The scene seems to be designed to set up Tyrion for a betrayal of Dany, and seeing Lannister men burning alive in person and them being insulted as they burned is probably going to have an effect on him.

I think something along that also. Plus, funny as it was, there were a dothraki and a Lannister man fighting in the background and the Lannister guy was kicking his arse!

TheIrishGrover

Kunkka wrote: »

I agree, I think Sansa is turning into Cersei. Sansa admires her in some sort of way too.

I always imagined (And still do) that it'll be Sansa sitting on the throne with Littlefinger and/or Varys one step down as her hand (Although Varys' storyline has kept him further from Sansa in the series than from the books).

Everyone else brown bread or walking off into the sunset all Kung-Fu like

Kunkka

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

I always imagined (And still do) that it'll be Sansa sitting on the throne with Littlefinger and/or Varys one step down as her hand (Although Varys' storyline has kept him further from Sansa in the series than from the books).

Everyone else brown bread or walking off into the sunset all Kung-Fu like

I have always said that Littlefinger will be there until the bitter end, so I'm kind of on board with this theory!

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TheIrishGrover

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True. Mods, delete my post if you wish

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wp_rathead

golfball37 wrote: »

They were all massacred by warlocks

All of them? I remember most of them were alright but weren't two of them following Dany around the Tower before she entered it?

Glebee

Has the latest episode moved ahead of the books yet in any way. I think I got to read A Storm of Swords but just interested are the plots out of book yet?

Digital Solitude

Oh yeah, most of S6 was ahead of the books. Pretty much everything the last 10 episodes has been new ground from what I remember

EagererBeaver

Glebee wrote: »

Has the latest episode moved ahead of the books yet in any way. I think I got to read A Storm of Swords but just interested are the plots out of book yet?

Long since past.

wp_rathead

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Long since past.

So much so that ya gotta have sympathy for D&D
Like I don't think they ever expected to have to overtake the book's by this much

Glebee

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Long since past.

That sounds like the good name for an episode...:)

matrim

The real question from that episode is: was ed sheeran one of the Lannister soldiers that was burned by drogon?

turnikett1

wp_rathead wrote: »

So much so that ya gotta have sympathy for D&D
Like I don't think they ever expected to have to overtake the book's by this much

Yeah think some of the criticism is unwarranted. When season 1 was released ADWD was also released that year. I don't think anyone envisaged that they would finish an entire 7 or maybe even 8 annual seasons and still not have any new book material to work with. It is not easy to live up to the quality of GRRM's writing especially with such a limited time frame.

I understand this being GRRM's work and he is entitled to do as he pleases, it's his life. But at the same time when you begin to write a series of novels you enter a non-verbal contract with your audience. They will continue to read and support your series and your career as a writer, you continue to write the material and wonderful stories that we all want to read. I feel bad for the people who've read since the beginning. 21 years and still waiting for the end. Dreams of Spring could easily be a decade away, if ever.

It's great that GRRM has achieved much fame and his excellent series is being visualized with some quality production to a huge audience. It must be amazing for him. But at the same time, don't forget about the hardcore fans who made you what you are, the fans who've been reading for decades. Not that I am even one of them, I started reading book 1 after hearing so much of the show (but didn't actually watch it until a few years later) the year it piloted. But still, there's a line between not being someone's b**ch and just finishing the damn series and giving the loyal fans what they crave. I miss reading ASOIAF books so much, but no way in hell am I bothered to re-read through all of them. I just want Winds of Winter I am a bit sad that I will find out the end through the TV rather than books but at least the show is amazing.

RDM_83 again

The other thing is that of course its his choice but he's probably screwing other fantasy series writers a bit, a song of ice and fire has probably introduced a lot of readers to this type of fantasy, if it doesn't get finished how many will be wary of investing themselves in other continuing series until they are concluded, and authors need people to buy the first one or two books to keep going.
Maybe he is completely stuck, like the Littlefinger grand plans might be hard to work out a satisfying conclusion too and so on.

Riddle101

I was talking to me dad about George R.R Martin's books the other day. We're both big fans and we watch Game of Thrones series. Anyway my dad is of the opinion that maybe George R.R Martin has writers block and probably doesn't know himself what to write.

I don't know myself though. When you see how many years it is between the books, he certainly does take a long time to write them. I just hope the last book won't take too long to finish.

Avatar MIA

Riddle101 wrote: »

Anyway my dad is of the opinion that maybe George R.R Martin has writers block and probably doesn't know himself what to write.

The hype and expectation pre and post TV series would have a major impact I imagine.

Savage Tyrant

His writing pace is excruciatingly slow for sure, but I'm quietly optimistic that the final book will only take 3 years or so from the publication of Winds of Winter. It doesn't do anything for the TV series, but it should, in theory, be a much easier write than the previous books. All characters will be in their positions and it may well be a big extended epilogue. Most of the end game should be done with in Winds I think.

laugh

I wonder if watching the TV version of characters he previously held in his mind has impacted his writing?

marcus001

turnikett1 wrote: »

Yeah think some of the criticism is unwarranted. When season 1 was released ADWD was also released that year. I don't think anyone envisaged that they would finish an entire 7 or maybe even 8 annual seasons and still not have any new book material to work with. It is not easy to live up to the quality of GRRM's writing especially with such a limited time frame.

I understand this being GRRM's work and he is entitled to do as he pleases, it's his life. But at the same time when you begin to write a series of novels you enter a non-verbal contract with your audience. They will continue to read and support your series and your career as a writer, you continue to write the material and wonderful stories that we all want to read. I feel bad for the people who've read since the beginning. 21 years and still waiting for the end. Dreams of Spring could easily be a decade away, if ever.

It's great that GRRM has achieved much fame and his excellent series is being visualized with some quality production to a huge audience. It must be amazing for him. But at the same time, don't forget about the hardcore fans who made you what you are, the fans who've been reading for decades. Not that I am even one of them, I started reading book 1 after hearing so much of the show (but didn't actually watch it until a few years later) the year it piloted. But still, there's a line between not being someone's b**ch and just finishing the damn series and giving the loyal fans what they crave. I miss reading ASOIAF books so much, but no way in hell am I bothered to re-read through all of them. I just want Winds of Winter I am a bit sad that I will find out the end through the TV rather than books but at least the show is amazing.

Agree with most of what you said except this. The dialogue isn't just bad compared to GRRM it's bad compared to other TV shows.

Besides, I don't think they really relied on GRRM as much as people claim I think they worked really hard in the first few seasons to build interest but they're just phoning it in now.

Scenes like this weren't in the book and they're some of the best acting and dialogue on TV.

Dave_The_Sheep

marcus001 wrote: »

Scenes like this weren't in the book and they're some of the best acting and dialogue on TV.

As excellent as those scenes are (and the one between Robert and Cersei later in that episode really is superb) they're the exception more so than the rule.

turnikett1

They're also much less frequent than the earlier seasons Still, not to be a negative nancy. Game of Thrones the TV adaptation is still miles ahead any TV series I've ever watched. The TV version of a book is never as good so I'm honestly not too fussed about the more TV elements in the show these days.

I am loving the re-watch of the series though. There are so many little moments in the dialogues that are so personal, and so perfectly portrayed. In episode 1 of season 2 when Jorah is talking to Dany over her dead horse, and Mormont says "...they're too weak to fight. These are your people. You need to be their strength", Dany turns to him and says "As you are mine", before calling her bloodriders. The way she so honestly says it, with that expression of helplessness and innocence. The whole Targaryen dynasty, Khaleesi, Mother of Dragons, conquering Westeros, rightful Queen of the Seven Kingdoms etc thing is killed for a split second. We see Daenarys at her core, what she really is (at that moment). An orphan with no immediate or known family, far away in a foreign strange land, repeatedly used and abused, followed by assassins, simply trying to live and find her home... I don't know why but it really tugged at my heart strings! It's a quick 10 second exchange but for me it just highlighted why GoT is so fantastic. Dragons, zombies and shapeshifting aside, it's just so human. When you couple the complex character of the human psyche and human emotions with dragons, zombies, shapeshifters, sex, violence and various witticisms in a grisly medieval setting, this is what you get and I bloody love it, I can't fathom that it's actually going to be finished after all these years!

I really hope we get a Mormont/Dany reunion and that they can patch things up! Only 3 more hours, and then we enter the final 8 episodes...