Annulment - Please advise.

.Bethany.

Hello all, I'm hoping for a little advice.

I am a divorced lady, and hope to remarry in the future. I was married previously in a Catholic church, and I'm aware that divorce is not recognised by it. However, I believe I may have grounds for an annulment. I wasn't aware until recently that I could do this, or I would not have left it this long to seek it. Though I'm afraid it would be a long drawn out process or that contact with my ex husband would have to be made.

After twelve years of mental and physical abuse with a violent alcoholic, I married my ex husband. Stupid of me I know, but I was not myself then. I had no self esteem left, I thought I had no hope, and this was my lot. He did not force me down the aisle, but I did not want to live in sin any longer. I had already two children for him. So I married with no love in my heart for the man, I was numb. I prioritised my children's happiness over my own, or its what I thought was best for them.

Within months the marriage deteriorated, as the reality of what I'd done set in. He would never change, so I told him it was over and he should leave. The house was rented in my name, he would return to his family home. But he refused to go for a while, and knowing how I truly felt he became even more dangerous. The abuse accelerated as he drank harder, I was beaten and accused of all kinds of things. My face smashed in so 'no man will ever look at you' I was told.

One day he was out I had the locks changed. For once in a very long time I felt safe. The relief was incredible. His reign of terror didn't end there, but at least he was no longer under the same roof as me. I sought a separation as quickly as I could afford it, and a divorce as soon as I was legally allowed to. I've moved a considerable distance to get away from him. I had my separation papers within about 1.5yrs, it would have been finalized sooner only there were children involved and he made the separation volatile. I had full divorce within the 5yrs you need to be apart legally.

It was during the throes of my divorce I met a man. He is the love I thought I would never feel. After all I have been through, to feel such kindness and affection it feels surreal. He has been the light in my life, and has taught me to love myself again too. He has been a very positive influence in my life. But I feel uneasy, as I know God does not recognise our love and that we are committing adultery in His eyes. When I attend mass I feel like a sinner and a hypocrite. My partner and I would love to get married in a church rather than a registry office, it would mean so much to us.

I need to make peace with God for what I felt I had to do. Please tell me it is possible He will forgive me? and my partner and I could have a church wedding? I have heard that it depends on the priest you ask, but I'm almost afraid to ask our local priest. I feel too ashamed to ask at the moment.

Please, thoughts or advice would be very welcome and appreciated.


Bethany.

eviltwin

You did nothing wrong, you shouldn't have to ask forgiveness for protecting yourself and your family.

hinault

.Bethany. wrote: »

Hello all, I'm hoping for a little advice.

I am a divorced lady, and hope to remarry in the future. I was married previously in a Catholic church, and I'm aware that divorce is not recognised by it. However, I believe I may have grounds for an annulment. I wasn't aware until recently that I could do this, or I would not have left it this long to seek it. Though I'm afraid it would be a long drawn out process or that contact with my ex husband would have to be made.

After twelve years of mental and physical abuse with a violent alcoholic, I married my ex husband. Stupid of me I know, but I was not myself then. I had no self esteem left, I thought I had no hope, and this was my lot. He did not force me down the aisle, but I did not want to live in sin any longer. I had already two children for him. So I married with no love in my heart for the man, I was numb. I prioritised my children's happiness over my own, or its what I thought was best for them.

Within months the marriage deteriorated, as the reality of what I'd done set in. He would never change, so I told him it was over and he should leave. The house was rented in my name, he would return to his family home. But he refused to go for a while, and knowing how I truly felt he became even more dangerous. The abuse accelerated as he drank harder, I was beaten and accused of all kinds of things. My face smashed in so 'no man will ever look at you' I was told.

One day he was out I had the locks changed. For once in a very long time I felt safe. The relief was incredible. His reign of terror didn't end there, but at least he was no longer under the same roof as me. I sought a separation as quickly as I could afford it, and a divorce as soon as I was legally allowed to. I've moved a considerable distance to get away from him. I had my separation papers within about 1.5yrs, it would have been finalized sooner only there were children involved and he made the separation volatile. I had full divorce within the 5yrs you need to be apart legally.

It was during the throes of my divorce I met a man. He is the love I thought I would never feel. After all I have been through, to feel such kindness and affection it feels surreal. He has been the light in my life, and has taught me to love myself again too. He has been a very positive influence in my life. But I feel uneasy, as I know God does not recognise our love and that we are committing adultery in His eyes. When I attend mass I feel like a sinner and a hypocrite. My partner and I would love to get married in a church rather than a registry office, it would mean so much to us.

I need to make peace with God for what I felt I had to do. Please tell me it is possible He will forgive me? and my partner and I could have a church wedding? I have heard that it depends on the priest you ask, but I'm almost afraid to ask our local priest. I feel too ashamed to ask at the moment.

Please, thoughts or advice would be very welcome and appreciated.


Bethany.

Sorry to read of your troubles. And I'm glad that things have worked out of you.

In respect of seeking an annulment, issues such as annulments are considered under what is known as canon law.

Canon law is the law that decrees what is allowable in the Church, under Church Law.

It is under canon law whether or not, an annulment can be granted or refused. So you need to contact a canon lawyer to establish the grounds for seeking an annulment.

I would suggest that you contact your local parish office and explain to the administrator there that you need to make contact with a canon lawyer.
You don't have to explain to the parish office administrator the merits of your case. You can simply say that you wish to contact a canon lawyer in respect of an annulment enquiry.

Alternatively you could contact the Bishops Office in your local diocese if you do not wish to contact your local parish office.

I wish you well.

uck51js9zml2yt

.Bethany. wrote: »

Hello all, I'm hoping for a little advice.


I need to make peace with God for what I felt I had to do. Please tell me it is possible He will forgive me? and my partner and I could have a church wedding? I have heard that it depends on the priest you ask, but I'm almost afraid to ask our local priest. I feel too ashamed to ask at the moment.

Please, thoughts or advice would be very welcome and appreciated.


Bethany.

That's why Jesus died.

1 John 1:19 says; "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

We only have to come to Him as its God who forgives and not a man.

.Bethany.

eviltwin wrote: »

You did nothing wrong, you shouldn't have to ask forgiveness for protecting yourself and your family.

I appreciate your reply, and for what it's worth I do feel like I made the right decision. Even though my current predicament doesn't sit well with me, I don't regret leaving my ex husband. It is important to me however that put this right with God. It's something I feel very unsettled about.

hinault wrote: »

Canon law is the law that decrees what is allowable in the Church, under Church Law.

It is under canon law whether or not, an annulment can be granted or refused. So you need to contact a canon lawyer to establish the grounds for seeking an annulment.

I would suggest that you contact your local parish office and explain to the administrator there that you need to make contact with a canon lawyer.
You don't have to explain to the parish office administrator the merits of your case. You can simply say that you wish to contact a canon lawyer in respect of an annulment enquiry.

Alternatively you could contact the Bishops Office in your local diocese if you do not wish to contact your local parish office.

I wish you well.

Thank you. Is this likely to be a costly thing to do? Separation and divorce were tough on me financially. Also would you know if they would contact my ex husband? He knows I've moved but not specifically where, I'd like to keep it that way. He has broken orders to stay away from me and not to intimidate me before. I feel like I have to go back to go forward, digging up a lot of hurt and anguish along the way

Darian Hollow Dressmaker wrote: »

That's why Jesus died.

1 John 1:19 says; "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

We only have to come to Him as its God who forgives and not a man.

Thank you. Do you mean to say that that simply my confession would suffice?

Delphinium

Don't rake up the past. An annulment will take years and you will both be questioned in intimate detail by Priests and other church persons. Why would you put yourself through that.
Have a civil ceremony with the immediate wedding party and then have a church blessing. Many Priests will do this for you.
I have no belief in any God but I cannot believe anyone would have to suffer for a past misery, no longer endured.

Try to draw a line and enjoy your new life.

uck51js9zml2yt

.Bethany. wrote: »

I appreciate your reply, and for what it's worth I do feel like I made the right decision. Even though my current predicament doesn't sit well with me, I don't regret leaving my ex husband. It is important to me however that put this right with God. It's something I feel very unsettled about.

Thank you. Is this likely to be a costly thing to do? Separation and divorce were tough on me financially. Also would you know if they would contact my ex husband? He knows I've moved but not specifically where, I'd like to keep it that way. He has broken orders to stay away from me and not to intimidate me before. I feel like I have to go back to go forward, digging up a lot of hurt and anguish along the way

Thank you. Do you mean to say that that simply my confession would suffice?

Yes. That's exactly what I mean. Jesu died to give us direct access to the Father.
When He said, "Father forgive them" you and I were included that utterance. Forgiveness is already given. We just have to confess our need of it and receive it.
It's like saying your thirsty when a glass of water is already provided. We just need to accept it's been given and drink.

hinault

.Bethany. wrote: »

Thank you. Is this likely to be a costly thing to do? Separation and divorce were tough on me financially. Also would you know if they would contact my ex husband? He knows I've moved but not specifically where, I'd like to keep it that way. He has broken orders to stay away from me and not to intimidate me before. I feel like I have to go back to go forward, digging up a lot of hurt and anguish along the way

You're welcome.

I hear your concerns regarding the breakdown of your marriage.

My advice is to try to arrange an appointment with a canon lawyer. I'd suggest talking through your concerns at that initial meeting with the lawyer.
I'd raise all of the concerns that you have raised and get the lawyers view on it. He will be able to describe the process and what information the process requires. You have nothing to lose sounding out the canon lawyer regarding the process.

It is clear that you and your intended want to get married in the Church. In order to do so, you need to the permission of the Church to do so.
So in order to obtain permission to marry in the Church in your situation, the previous marriage needs to be addressed first.

I wish you the very best of luck.

Cabaal

I know somebody that went through this, involved priests interviewing family members and all sorts of nonsense.
For the person and people involved in it their view is it was utter nonsense and they never should have done it.

As already suggested, try to draw a line and enjoy your new life unless you want both yourself and friends, family members questioned about how your marriage failed.

Peregrinus

I know several people who have been through annulments. Some found the process helpful and healing; some found it painful and intrusive.

Obviously, I can't tell Bethany how she will find it.

But she can at least explore what would be involved, so that she can make her own decision about whether she wants to pursue it. Bethany, if you approach your parish priest - or any parish priest, really - he'll be able to put you in touch with the staff of the marriage tribunal for your diocese. They'll talk to you about your situation and explain to you what courses are open to you and how they would play out, if you chose to follow them. I understand that this is a difficult thing to discuss, but you certainly won't be made to feel any shame or guilt, and it will help you to develop a clearer idea of how you want to proceed.

recedite

Annulment is really only for when the marriage never really got of the ground, such as when it was never consummated. Seeing as you had kids with this man (although pre-marriage) and are also divorced from him, then it would be hard (and probably dishonest) to argue that the marriage never really existed.
The obvious solution here is a civil marriage and a church blessing.

.Bethany. wrote: »

I know God does not recognise our love and that we are committing adultery in His eyes. When I attend mass I feel like a sinner and a hypocrite.

Strange then that you had two children "out of wedlock" if this kind of thing bothers you.

.Bethany. wrote: »

My partner and I would love to get married in a church rather than a registry office, it would mean so much to us.

Ah well, you can't always get everything you want, and the rules of your club say you only get one chance.

Peregrinus

recedite wrote: »

Annulment is really only for when the marriage never really got of the ground, such as when it was never consummated. Seeing as you had kids with this man (although pre-marriage) and are also divorced from him, then it would be hard (and probably dishonest) to argue that the marriage never really existed.

This is absolutely not correct. FWIA, I think the facts given in the OP present a very strong case for annulment on the basis of lack of capacity/lack of consent. The question here is not really whether the OP can get an annulment; the question is whether she want to go through the process; will she find it helpful or painful?

Thinkingaboutit

An archdiocese will typically has a marriage tribunal which will judge whether there are grounds for holding the marriage to be invalid. It could appear, as Peregrinus suggests, a notably painful instance of lack of capacity or consent, which is a ground for nullity, but it is best to get properly informed advice.

The Dublin Regional Marriage Tribunal has phone numbers and email, and hopefully there is as much for each archdiocese. A priest with canon law training is the best starting point for both informed and sensitive advice. A homily given at St Kevin's church by Fr Richardson, a member of the tribunal, gave a sense of a rigorous and respectful process.

Apart from that Bethany, I can only offer my poor prayers, and those of others, that God will illumine the path for you both.

Mrs OBumble

Peregrinus wrote: »

I know several people who have been through annulments. Some found the process helpful and healing; some found it painful and intrusive.

Same here.

Before approaching the Tribunal, I'd suggest starting by having a conversation with an experienced priest, who has a reputation among people for being compassionate and realistic. (How to find out: ask people if they've ever been to Fr X for confession, and what he was like. Don't rely on one person's advice, ask a few. Avoid anyone who has a reputation of burdening people.)

This wise priest can introduce you to a canon lawyer, if it's appropriate. He can also make sure that you don't get someone who's perhaps too rigorous or known to be unsympathetic with particular types of cases. Also, he can give you some general information about what the process is like, and also what it will cost (varies widely between dioceses, AFAIK), so you can decide how to proceed.

recedite

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

He can also make sure that you don't get someone who's perhaps too rigorous or known to be unsympathetic with particular types of cases. Also, he can give you some general information about what the process is like, and also what it will cost...

Rules can be bent for those who have the cash?
I doubt the OP is in that league. But perhaps the new man is of the more prosperous variety, as well as being more pious than the previous one.

Peregrinus

recedite wrote: »

Rules can be bent for those who have the cash?

Don't be silly. There's a fee to bring an application before the tribunal. Plus, you'll generally need a canon lawyer to prepare and present your case; there's a fee for that too. There are fee waiver scheme for the indigent.

The OP got a divorce, which certainly cost money. This will certainly cost less, but how much less will depend on how clear-cut the case is.

lazybones32

Daniel O'Donnell's wife was married for 13 years and had 2 kids with a man before getting divorced and eventually annulled. I gather the annullment was granted, based on something the groom said to a friend before the wedding, which effectively meant the wedding was never valid to begin with.
One of the (JFK) Kennedy's got his marriage annulled by admitting that he had no intention of remaining faithful to his wife.
The husbands input will be sought afaik. Don't think you'll ever have to meet, correspond or interact though.

Mrs OBumble

recedite wrote: »

Rules can be bent for those who have the cash?
I doubt the OP is in that league. But perhaps the new man is of the more prosperous variety, as well as being more pious than the previous one.

A certain amount of cash is necessary anyways.

More can sometimes motivate a canon lawyer to examine a case more thoroughly. And the harder they look the more likely they are to find something useful. The wise priest can somtimes help this convetsation proceed smoothly.