Landlord not keen on HAP

Kaleb2015

Just looking for some information. Myself, wife and kids are in our rented house now for two years and going into the third in two weeks. We got a letter a few weeks ago to say we have to switch from the rent supplement to the HAP. We gave the forms to our landlord two weeks ago and he said that he wasn't interested in it and more than likely would end our contract but would check it out and get back to us. I know we are covered under part 4 but we just want to know seeing as we are current tenants does he have to enter into the HAP? Rent Supplement would stop eventually so would have no other way to pay the rent.

Ray Palmer

Simply he can't refuse. Don't accept his excuses. I don't agree with it but that is the way it is.

Squatter

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Simply he can't refuse. Don't accept his excuses. I don't agree with it but that is the way it is.

Landlords are NOT obliged to register for HAP.

Onthefence

I've spoken to two different councils about HAP and both have stated that landlords are currently not obliged to transfer tenants from rent allowance to HAP.

Kaleb2015

Onthefence wrote: »

I've spoken to two different councils about HAP and both have stated that landlords are currently not obliged to transfer tenants from rent allowance to HAP.

So in that case what about part 4, does it not have some kind of conflict with that, if not for the HAP I wouldn't have to go anywhere for 2 years.

Stheno

Kaleb2015 wrote: »

So in that case what about part 4, does it not have some kind of conflict with that, if not for the HAP I wouldn't have to go anywhere for 2 years.

Your only option would possibly be to pay the rent without using HAP

If the landlord does not want to register for HAP then you have to find alternative means to pay the rent?

gizmo81

In the first decision of its kind, the WRC ruled that the protection from discrimination extends to not only prospective tenants but also sitting tenants.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/landlord-ordered-to-pay-more-than-42-000-to-three-tenants-1.3192606

Kaleb2015

Just a little update on the situation. The landlord decided to work with and we got the the ball rolling. We have been approved this week and it is starting in November. Our rent was always due on the 11th of the month in advance but for september we paid from the 11th to the 26th what we owed and from the 27th started to pay it weekly until it was approved. Now we are still paying it weekly and will do so up until the end of this month but our landlord wants us to pay weekly up until the end of november because in his mind the payment from them is for the following month. Now i told him and the council told him otherwise. Its paid at the end of the month for that month but he's saying that doesn't matter that its against our contract that he wants a full payment from us and from them in november and hinted at ending the tenancy. Now this time around we didn't do up a contract or sign anything with each other as we were now moving to this but he expects us to pay our contribution to the council for the rent and pay rent to him too that we don't even owe. I don't know what to do about the situation now because he's a nasty piece of work and will do anything to get what he wants.

davindub

Kaleb2015 wrote: »

So in that case what about part 4, does it not have some kind of conflict with that, if not for the HAP I wouldn't have to go anywhere for 2 years.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/landlord-ordered-to-pay-more-than-42-000-to-three-tenants-1.3192606

You might want to speak to a legal professional in regards having to pay the landlord twice for the 1st month. In short you don't as the landlord would receive payment for the same period twice.

ZENER

I would be interested in seeing how this works out. Every lease I've ever seen says rent in advance, why should changing to HAP change that ? A contract is a contract no ?

We have a tenant who has asked us to allow them to use HAP. It's cost almost 400 euro in solicitor fees to check tax compliance and other nuances of the HAP scheme, 400 we won't recoup. It's more a data collecting service for the government in my opinion. I can understand why most Landlords aren't interested.

Ken

The_Conductor

Essentially local authorities don't like paying (for anything) in advance- including accommodation for tenants. Residential tenancies have historically been paid in advance (to be honest- you'd be laughed at if you suggested otherwise). Local authorities believe they have the critical mass to make everyone bend to their will- which is what is happening- until someone decides they've had enough.

OP- just because you are on Part IV and have not signed a new contract- does not mean the terms of the original contract are void- they continue to be in effect. If you are having some issues with this- you really need to get some proper advice from someone who is thoroughly familiar with tenancy law (not Threshold- who will tell you anything at all to make you happy).

Technically- you are in rent arrears- if you move to HAP and pay rent in arrears- and the landlord could issue you with a 14 day notice of arrears.

The whole idea of HAP is that a tenant on HAP should not be discriminated against in comparison with other tenants- however, the manner in which its implemented by the local authorities mean that any tenant who isn't a HAP tenant- is on worse terms than a HAP tenant- as they have to pay their rent in advance............ Go figure.........

beauf

If you could afford it, it two months deposit would probably persuade the LL to accept the Hap arrears. If not then if you have been good tenants use that as leverage.

Wasnt RA also paid in arrears??

the_syco

beauf wrote: »

Wasnt RA also paid in arrears??

She wasn't on RA, she was on RS.

Kaleb2015 wrote: »

We got a letter a few weeks ago to say we have to switch from the rent supplement to the HAP.

which I'm assuming is given to the tenant to pay to the LL along with their normal rent?

Rent Supplement is a means-tested payment for certain people living in private rented accommodation who cannot provide for the cost of their accommodation from their own resources.

Kaleb2015

When I left in the forms he collected rent for the 11th to the 26th of September in preparation of moving over to the hap. He contacted me then on the 27th complaining that he had a mortgage to pay and couldn’t wait until the last Wednesday of the following month. So I said I would pay him weekly until it was approved and he agreed to that. But then he called and now wants me to pay it up until the rent from the hap goes into his account. If I do it the way he wants he’s getting two months rent for November and would expect it done like that then until we move out.

The_Conductor

Kaleb2015 wrote: »

When I left in the forms he collected rent for the 11th to the 26th of September in preparation of moving over to the hap. He contacted me then on the 27th complaining that he had a mortgage to pay and couldn’t wait until the last Wednesday of the following month. So I said I would pay him weekly until it was approved and he agreed to that. But then he called and now wants me to pay it up until the rent from the hap goes into his account. If I do it the way he wants he’s getting two months rent for November and would expect it done like that then until we move out.

You have a contractual agreement (your lease) to pay the rent as per a set schedule (namely 1 month in advance). The fact that you are moving onto a different social welfare scheme- does not change your contractual agreement with the landlord- nor does the fact that you are on a Part IV tenancy (which you'd automatically acquire after 6 months of residence- anyway).

Your landlord is entitled to be paid his rent on time- and it is not fair that the local authorities are playing this game with tenants and landlords- essentially its a game of who blinks first.

What normally happens is the tenant pays the landlord in full- up to when the HAP payments commence. If this puts an unreasonable financial burden on you- what normally happens is you're advised to ask the CWO and/or the local authority- for a hardship payment- to cover the period until the HAP payment kicks in.

Essentially the local authorities are trying to have their cake and eat it- pay rent in arrears- and shovel all the risk back on the landlord- whose only option to try and safeguard his asset (your home)- is to issue you with a notice of arrears after 14 days- if you do not pay your rent in full as scheduled.

Its one hell of a mess.

If I were you- I'd be asking the Community Welfare Officer for a hardship payment to make the rent up to when the HAP payment kicks in. I'd also be writing a stiff letter to my local representatives- making them fully aware that the local authorities are putting you and your landlord in impossible positions. What happens if the landlord doesn't make the mortgage payment- he ends up in arrears to his lender- and eventually- but a hell of a lot faster than they would for an owner occupier- they get their act together.

HAP tenants are not supposed to be discriminated against. Local authorities are actively discriminating against them. Hammer this home to your local representatives.

muminpajamas

You could try contacting www.flac.ie. I agree with the person who said threshold aren't necessarily the most reliable source of information as I have been to them in the past for advice. The council I am working with for my HAP application have assured me that my landlord will get the rent on time as usual and won't be out of pocket so I think it can be done if the council are willing. The only thing I am waiting on is documentation from the landlord. Hoping and praying it will go through.

jimmycrackcorm

Kaleb2015 wrote:

. If I do it the way he wants he’s getting two months rent for November and would expect it done like that then until we move out.

No, it means that if you end your tendency then you stop the HAP a month earlier.

You need to treat the HAP payment in November as being for December in advance. The council say otherwise but this is the reality, rent has to be paid in advance so you don't have any other option.

Gumbo

Talk to the council.
I swapped my tennant over to HAP recently, well April and I rang the council on the first of every month to tell them I am issuing notice of termination for continued late rent and they paid each month within the first week.

HAP forms finally arrived this month and I will be paid on the last Wednesday of each month.

I don’t mind tbh as I have the same tenant over 3 years now but just to give you an idea to keep on top of the council.

April 73

OP - you need to look at this a little bit diffferently. Your LL is not being unreasonable in expecting a month's rent in advance to continue. You moving over to HAP is not really his problem.
So you need to make sure the LL is paid on time by either paying weekly in Nov until the HAP payment kicks in - which is actually December's rent to the LL. Or if you can't do this you need to get the council to do things differently. By the various posts here there are options but you need to actively persue the council to ensure the LL is not disadvantaged by the scheme. If not the CWO might be able to help but again you need to persue it.

Quandary

kceire wrote: »

keep on top of the council.

This, 100 times this!

I have found it difficult to say the least when dealing with the council for most things, but you have to constantly pester to get things done in a reasonable timeframe. Make sure you make a note of exact times of calls, ask for names of who you are speaking to every time, ask for case ref numbers if possible etc...

Best of luck

Kaleb2015

The way it was agreed to by both of us was we paid the last of the rent due between the 11th of September to the 26th. He was to refund this payment if the hap came through on the 27th and keep the rest amounting from the 27th to the 11th of October. If it didn’t then he was to hold onto that and then wait until the last Wednesday of October for the full rent. But when nothing went into his account for September he called giving out, I explained the agreement we had made and in the end to make things easier on him for his mortgage I said until the hap was approved I would pay the rent weekly and he said that if the hap came through this month he would refund me the full rent. I’ve been paying that weekly now for 4 weeks tomorrow and this week we got word it’s approved from the start of November. I’m paying him up until the last day of this month and then the hap kicks in. The fact that he was going to refund me for September if it came through and also for October then he’s counting it for that current month which is right. But the other day he calls saying that he called the council, knows the hap is approved and wanted to make sure I was still going to pay him weekly until the end of November. I reminded him that I had said that I would pay it until it was approved and that I was now going to be paying them from the first week of November and he then said that he was counting it as for December’s payment and he wanted a payment from me also. Why all of a sudden did he go from repaying me in September and October to wanting to keep the payment from me for November and count the hap for December.

murphaph

These stupid council schemes never seem to just recognise and work with established principles in the private rental sector. Then they blame the landlords for not wanting to engage in these non-standard practices.

Kaleb2015

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the_syco

Kaleb2015 wrote: »

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I disagree.

Samuel T. Cogley

Kaleb2015 wrote: »

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the_syco wrote: »

I disagree.

On point I thought :pac:

The_Conductor

And closed.